Adult Friend Finder position statement

[Xenophage]

AdultFriendFinder from time to time as a small part of its advertising budget places ad buys with companies which some people might call ?adware?. Adware is software that is installed on a user?s computer with notice and consent by the user. In some instances such adware will use contextual ads - for example it may scan web pages for references to certain keywords and then pop up relevant ads from its advertisers. Typical keywords for AdultFriendFinder may include ?dating? and ?friend?. One of the motivating factors in AdultFriendFinder placing such adware ads is to effectively compete in the online dating marketplace - namely if AdultFriendFinder does not place such ads our competitors will make deals with the adware companies to place such ads to our detriment.

It has come to our attention that some affiliates are unhappy about some uncommon and unintended side effects of adware advertising ? in some instances the adware will scan a web page and pop up an ?in context? AdultFriendFinder ad in a browser window next to an affiliate?s ad for AdultFriendFinder in another browser window. This scenario certainly makes us uncomfortable and creates a catch-22 for us ? if we stop buying the contextual adware ads our competitors? sites will pop up and we may lose sales and if we keep buying adware ads we may find from time to time our ads will pop up near our affiliate?s ads for our sites.

While it is perfectly legal for us to place ads with internet software providers like adware companies, specialized browser providers, and search engines that place our ads near our affiliates ads (for example this happens often with keyword buys on search engines) this notion of the adware ad ?collisions? that has recently been raised does make us feel somewhat uncomfortable ? in other words we find ourselves sympathetic with those who have not been happy with this bizarre result.

So we decided to look further into the adware issue. While we are at least partially at the mercy of the programmatic techniques of the given adware companies we are already exploring and experimenting with technology solutions to try to figure out ways to reduce the number of ?adware collisions?. Our primary method of tracking affiliate traffic is not by using cookies (as has been wrongly suggested on some board postings) but rather by coded URLs ? this may have to change. Suffice it to say that for now we appreciate the comments that have been made on the boards to date by our affiliates (yes even the adverse ones) and we will attempt to address this unforeseen consequence of adware ad buys in the near future. If AdultFriendFinder affiliates have any comments or proposed solutions you may e-mail me at lars at legendarylars.com

[tony286]

some people might call “adware” Thats too funny lol

[European Lee]

Okay, so what exactly are you doing about it?

Regards,

Lee

[squishypimp]

sig spot.

[SleazyDream]

it's not cool to support companies that steal from me.

[jact]

Good to see a response to the topic, though I'm not sure it'll be a popular one.

[SleazyDream]

a few years ago - it was perfectly legal to own slaves.


was that right?

[sandman!]

kind of what i expected in a response.

[Xenophage]

http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=663524

I clicked a google ad word for "cams.com" and as soon as the cams page came up a SexSearch page poped right over it.

I wonder if anyone on GFY paid google for that spot. I wonder how much they pay per a click and if they know that if any of the more then 20 million zango infected users click their google ad spot they have little to no chance of getting the sale, nor do you lars.

Gotta love this spyware shit. So are you guys for it or against it, or is it ok for SexSearch to bid on "cams.com" on zango and steal your traffic and waste you or your affiliate's google ad words money ????

CLICK TO MAKE PICTURE BIGGER!


please note the key word: kw=camsdotcom

[NoWhErE]

The fact that you would choose to support adware makes me sick... thats all I can say. I don't care wether you have to use it to compete or not, the fact that you choose to support such shady tactics shows the kind of business ethic you have.

[GooSearch]

can't blame him,,, when i worked doing traffic for several big name sex toy comapnies .. we used 180 solutions at the time.. they requested competition urls and search strings.. i found when they got the deep pockets the companies just bid over everyone to keep on top...my 2cents

[Xenophage]

The fact that you would choose to support adware makes me sick... thats all I can say. I don't care wether you have to use it to compete or not, the fact that you choose to support such shady tactics shows the kind of business ethic you have.

I would not say support I would more say forced into read this

I clicked a google ad word for "cams.com" and as soon as the cams page came up a SexSearch page poped right over it.

I wonder if anyone on GFY paid google for that spot. I wonder how much they pay per a click and if they know that if any of the more then 20 million zango infected users click their google ad spot they have little to no chance of getting the sale, nor do you lars.

Gotta love this spyware shit. So are you guys for it or against it, or is it ok for SexSearch to bid on "cams.com" on zango and steal your traffic and waste you or your affiliate's google ad words money ????

CLICK TO MAKE PICTURE BIGGER!


please note the key word: kw=camsdotcom

[will76]

http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=663524

Damn and I was hoping you were going to link to this one:

DatingGold has been a little quiet about this issue in the past, however we would like to state that we do not in any way knowingly purchase or allow inhouse or affiliate traffic that comes from Zango, Spyware or similar sources.

If you do find anyone promoting us in this manner, please do contact us.

We have had the "opportunity" to work with Zango after seeing them at AdTech, however upon reviewing where their traffic comes from, we thought that would be highly unethical to ourselves, affiliates and other sponsors.

We do not feel this is a proper way to run a business, we feel that the only parties who will gain from this kind of marketing is the Network ie. Zango, the Search Engine ie. Google and the Sponsor.

We believe that our affiliates and ourselves work to hard to generate traffic to just turn around and steal it. We also do not feel that this way of doing business is legitimate and we believe there will be liability involved.

My best example of what is happening is the following:

You go to a Chevrolet dealer to buy a truck. Before you get to the door a guy jumps right in front of you and says "Hi I'm Ford, come with me", he grabs your arm and starts pulling you away until you hit him on the X.

This would never happen in the real world because it's pretty much illegal. It shouldn't be happening online.

We encourage affiliates to make better deisions about what kind of companies they want to work. We think companies that allow this kind of marketing have reduced their integrity and are just out to make a quick buck, with total disregard for their affiliates or competitors.

If you have any information that may help us stop this, please contact us.

[NoWhErE]

I would not say support I would more say forced into read this

Thats the beauty of life: you always have a choice.

You made the choice to support adware.

[jact]

So if I outbid you for your domains on Zango, you'd be cool with that?

[GrouchyAdmin]

I would not say support I would more say forced into read this

This way, the problem can be brought 'back in house' before someone else uses those shady tactics to steal from your affiliates. Uhhhhh... right?

[GonZo]

Which one of you is forcing Lars to support adware?

[BV]

Lars,

With all the money you make why even spend a small part of your advertising budget on adware? I don't understand.

AdultFriendFinder from time to time as a small part of its advertising budget places ad buys with companies which some people might call ?adware?. Adware is software that is installed on a user?s computer with notice and consent by the user. In some instances such adware will use contextual ads - for example it may scan web pages for references to certain keywords and then pop up relevant ads from its advertisers. Typical keywords for AdultFriendFinder may include ?dating? and ?friend?. One of the motivating factors in AdultFriendFinder placing such adware ads is to effectively compete in the online dating marketplace - namely if AdultFriendFinder does not place such ads our competitors will make deals with the adware companies to place such ads to our detriment.

It has come to our attention that some affiliates are unhappy about some uncommon and unintended side effects of adware advertising ? in some instances the adware will scan a web page and pop up an ?in context? AdultFriendFinder ad in a browser window next to an affiliate?s ad for AdultFriendFinder in another browser window. This scenario certainly makes us uncomfortable and creates a catch-22 for us ? if we stop buying the contextual adware ads our competitors? sites will pop up and we may lose sales and if we keep buying adware ads we may find from time to time our ads will pop up near our affiliate?s ads for our sites.

While it is perfectly legal for us to place ads with internet software providers like adware companies, specialized browser providers, and search engines that place our ads near our affiliates ads (for example this happens often with keyword buys on search engines) this notion of the adware ad ?collisions? that has recently been raised does make us feel somewhat uncomfortable ? in other words we find ourselves sympathetic with those who have not been happy with this bizarre result.

So we decided to look further into the adware issue. While we are at least partially at the mercy of the programmatic techniques of the given adware companies we are already exploring and experimenting with technology solutions to try to figure out ways to reduce the number of ?adware collisions?. Our primary method of tracking affiliate traffic is not by using cookies (as has been wrongly suggested on some board postings) but rather by coded URLs ? this may have to change. Suffice it to say that for now we appreciate the comments that have been made on the boards to date by our affiliates (yes even the adverse ones) and we will attempt to address this unforeseen consequence of adware ad buys in the near future. If AdultFriendFinder affiliates have any comments or proposed solutions you may e-mail me at lars at legendarylars.com

[TDF]

a few years ago - it was perfectly legal to own slaves.


was that right?

yes! I'll get a rope!

[x582]

Lars,

I understand your point of view here. You are buying traffic from many sources and it makes sense that you would target your own keywords. What you have to understand is that the "adware traffic source" will always collide with your "affiliate traffic source". You are doing one to the detriment of the other.

Why? Because it is your affiliate pages that will in 99% of the situation trigger your adware campaign thus "stealing" sales from your affiliates.

[Pleasurepays]

Which one of you is forcing Lars to support adware?

i was expecting the "rogue employee" defense

[will76]

can't blame him,,, when i worked doing traffic for several big name sex toy comapnies .. we used 180 solutions at the time.. they requested competition urls and search strings.. i found when they got the deep pockets the companies just bid over everyone to keep on top...my 2cents

I wouldn't care if company A was stealing from company B, if they didn't have any affiliates.

But when A & B get into a pissing war, the affiliates are the ones that lose. Not fair to the people who make the money.

Hell personally, when a company has THOUSANDS of affiliates why are they even advertising in the first place, why are they competiting with their affiliates. I could understand if a company had a couple hundred affiliates. I know if I had a company that made millions and had thousands of affiliates I wouldn;t be buying an ads myself. Where can that company advertise that his affiliates are already not advertising? Everywhere they buy ads they are competiting with their affiliates. It's not like they dont make a ton of off all the branding that affiliates are doing for them or all the type in traffic they get. I am not just talking about AFF either, all big companies. It would piss me off if i go to buy ad words and the COMPANY has the spot above me, god knows they have more of a profit margin to work with and advertising budget then i do. That seems more like a major conflict of interest as well.

I am not picking on AFF, is there any sponsors here that do over a million in afiliate sales a month that doesn't advertise for themselves ?

[poisson]

I just spent 200$ on them.

The first and the last time.

*Just dont worth it.

[tony286]

Which one of you is forcing Lars to support adware?

Your a trip lol looking forward to hangin with you tomorrow night.

[GonZo]

i was expecting the "rogue employee" defense

I hoping to hear more on how the "database" burped again.

[x582]

I wouldn't care if company A was stealing from company B, if they didn't have any affiliates.

But when A & B get into a pissing war, the affiliates are the ones that lose. Not fair to the people who make the money.

Hell personally, when a company has THOUSANDS of affiliates why are they even advertising in the first place, why are they competiting with their affiliates. I could understand if a company had a couple hundred affiliates. I know if I had a company that made millions and had thousands of affiliates I wouldn;t be buying an ads myself. Where can that company advertise that his affiliates are already not advertising? Everywhere they buy ads they are competiting with their affiliates. It's not like they dont make a ton of off all the branding that affiliates are doing for them or all the type in traffic they get. I am not just talking about AFF either, all big companies. It would piss me off if i go to buy ad words and the COMPANY has the spot above me, god knows they have more of a profit margin to work with and advertising budget then i do. That seems more like a major conflict of interest as well.

I am not picking on AFF, is there any sponsors here that do over a million in afiliate sales a month that doesn't advertise for themselves ?

The problem is not with AFF buying traffic and advertising their services themselves, every company do that - they'd be idiot not to.

The problem is that the adware campaigns are triggerd in 99% of the cases by pages made by their affiliates - thus "stealing" traffic.

[tony286]

Lars,

With all the money you make why even spend a small part of your advertising budget on adware? I don't understand.

I would guess its alot cheaper than paying a affiliate in the long run, affiliates are expensive.

[GonZo]

Your a trip lol looking forward to hangin with you tomorrow night.

Im trying to help Lars out here. He says he was forced so I want to know whos doing it and why.

FREE LEGENDARY LARS!!!

[TheDoc]

Hey Lars..
My opinions aside..

It appears to me you have been informed of what is really going on by other people, and that information is full of bullshit.

I would gladly educated on what the real problem is and why it is illegal for your company to be involved with forced adware installs, just drop me an ICQ.

[GrouchyAdmin]

FREE LEGENDARY LARS!!!

* With an equal or greater purchase. Not a stackable coupon. Cash value 1/10th of 1c, except where stolen.

[pocketkangaroo]

So basically you are buying your affiliates traffic from these guys for cheap? Real classy move. You guys sure care about your affiliates.

[poisson]

Yeah! what i heard from all the other threads is that the cookie bought in adwords got updated to a zango ad. that suck for sure.

AFF and/or cams.com is making a statement about buying ads on a network that provide a disfontion on an internet maketing.

The smartest thing to do right now is to get a way for our cookies to remain a certain periods, there is threads about that.

imo

[Damian_Maxcash]

Im sitting on the fence with this one - but I would like to hear some ideas from people how Lars can solve his problem....

AFF is the biggest dating site on the net and he wants to keep it that way.

How can he do that if he cant use the same tools as his competition?

[Xenophage]

Yeah! what i heard from all the other threads is that the cookie bought in adwords got updated to a zango ad. that suck for sure.

AFF and/or cams.com is making a statement about buying ads on a network that provide a disfontion on an internet maketing.

The smartest thing to do right now is to get a way for our cookies to remain a certain periods, there is threads about that.

imo

Read it again we use URL tracking not Cookies

[Pleasurepays]

in the interest of affiliates, honesty and integrity could you please provide a list all the "adware" companies you support so webmasters can make sure they are not affected?

[Pete-KT]

nice to hear a reply lars, knew it would eventually be said by you, good work

[Xenophage]

Im sitting on the fence with this one - but I would like to hear some ideas from people how Lars can solve his problem....

AFF is the biggest dating site on the net and he wants to keep it that way.

How can he do that if he cant use the same tools as his competition?

Thank you Solutions are good lots of drama but no real solutions

Smokeythebear came up with some pretty good ideas

[GonZo]

Read it again we use URL tracking not Cookies

Lars --

Who is forcing you to do this?

[Jace]

Free Legendary Lars!

[Pete-KT]

Lars got a minute to talk about some traffic trades?

[Xenophage]

Lars --

Who is forcing you to do this?

I clicked a google ad word for "cams.com" and as soon as the cams page came up a SexSearch page poped right over it.

I wonder if anyone on GFY paid google for that spot. I wonder how much they pay per a click and if they know that if any of the more then 20 million zango infected users click their google ad spot they have little to no chance of getting the sale, nor do you lars.

Gotta love this spyware shit. So are you guys for it or against it, or is it ok for SexSearch to bid on "cams.com" on zango and steal your traffic and waste you or your affiliate's google ad words money ????

CLICK TO MAKE PICTURE BIGGER!


please note the key word: kw=camsdotcom

too short

[fris]

zango is the devil

[poisson]

Read it again we use URL tracking not Cookies

That's why i tried to make a distinction uppon the cases. Buying ads on Zango is a marketing move and i've done it. Overwriting a cookie with a spyware is another.

The issue still remain for other programs.

I-friend do a part of their marketing by promising lifetime cookies. If an affiliate or I-friends itself overwrite a cookie using a spyware that sucks.

But as quoted, Cams.com and/or AFF.com use URL tracking, not cookies.

[GonZo]

too short

Damn Im going to have to call Andy Dunn to decipher this one.
Name some names!

Im not Legendary and I cant figure out the treasure map.
We are all behind you. Im holding a FREE LEGENDARY LARS breakfast benefit tomorrow evening in Atlanta!

Help us fight the enemy that is holding you down!

[Xenophage]

Damn Im going to have to call Andy Dunn to decipher this one.
Name some names!

Im not Legendary and I cant figure out the treasure map.
We are all behind you. Im holding a FREE LEGENDARY LARS breakfast benefit tomorrow evening in Atlanta!

Help us fight the enemy that is holding you down!

hahahahah nice

[Missie]

You know Lars, many companies have sued Gator/Claria and WhenU for popping competitor ads on their sites and either won their case or it was settled out of court.

See the part on legislation at the bottom of this page:

http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/

Missie

[will76]

The problem is not with AFF buying traffic and advertising their services themselves, every company do that - they'd be idiot not to.

The problem is that the adware campaigns are triggerd in 99% of the cases by pages made by their affiliates - thus "stealing" traffic.

trust me i know what is going on here, I was going off on a tangent with that post, possibly one that should have been for it's own thread.

Yes when AFF wins the bid for their keywords they will likely be taking traffic that would have either been from themselves or their affiliates. Like you said who else would be gettign credit for the sale when an aff domain is in someone's brower. Either the affiliate sending them or the company if it was from their ads or type in traffic. NOW If AFF does not win the bid on those keywords then sex search will take all the traffic and AFF and it's affiliates will make $0.00 money from that traffic.


So do you take the high road, let Sex Search take your traffic and don't play the adware game, or do you out bid them and well you know what you are doing to you know who when that happens....

"Almost" seems like extortion***, you have to bid against your comeptition for your name sake. Is AFF trademarked ???? ( ***i am not accusing anyone of extortion)



ONE SOLUTION WOULD BE FOR AFF TO BID ON ONLY THEIR KEYWORDS AND THEN NOT TAKE CREDIT FOR THE SALES THEMSELF. Tell ZANGO you want to pop up a blank referral page, or a pop under blank page, or work out some programming where you are protecting your key words but you still allow your affiliates to make the sales.

[lazycash]

If your adware advertising represents such a small part of your overall advertising spending, why is it such a dilemma if you take a stance and remove it? Look at the big picture, if you take a hardline stance against questionable adware/spyware, you will gain a new group of affiliates that simply won't work with your competitors. I realize you hate to give other companies any competitive edge in that form of advertising, but the benefit gained in traffic from new affiliates as well as company goodwill would most likely far supersede any sales from adware/spyware.

Stand up, take a stance and call out your competition rather than going with the flow and hoping to fly under the radar.

[GonZo]

hahahahah nice

Oh Im serious Lars. I have much respect for your purple pimp hat!

Dont worry Ill be posting a thread on my board too so that we can all help fight the opression and FREE LEGENDARY LARS!!!

And in light of recent posts in this thread we will be taking additional donations to buy Pete some nice hankies so he can clean up his nose too!

FREE LEGENDARY LARS .... CLEAN UP PETE-KT!!!

[minusonebit]

Ah, this thread is a great read.

Good job, Lars. You just added your program onto my personal blacklist of programs that I'll never fly an ad for as long as I'm around. There is no legit reason for supporting spam, adware, spyware or any of this other crap, and certainly no excuse for buying your affiliate's traffic on the cheap through the back door. And yeah, its legal. All kinds of unethical things are legal, dosent mean they should be done.

Sometimes, I wonder if there is any money at all left in this whole affiliate/program model. It seems like anymore the affiliate does all the work and the program does everything they can to fuck the affiliate out of thier megar earnings (shaving, slow payments, bankruptcy, the shit described here) and at the end of the day you have done one helluva lot of work to earn a few peanuts.