_ZANGO and iFriends [screenshot]

[OzMan]

I am sure most of you can't be bothered or are scared to install Zango, thinking it will fuck up your pc. But if you are concerned at all about this issue, which will no doubt get a lot worse especially if Zango are white listed next month, you really should install it, at least on an old pc as seeing is believing.

I've seen about 10 or 12 Adult companies either buying popups on Zango or allowing their affiliates to do so and thereby stealing sales by cookie/url replacement. Let's ignore for the moment what appears in the toolbar tabs and search results as I posted in an earlier thread.

Most of the Adult companies buying popups I've never or rarely heard of. The bigger companies I've noticed seem to be AFF/Cams, SexSearch, iFriends and Webcams.com.

SexSearch and Webcams.com have been totally silent on the issue at least as far as I've noticed, apparently hoping to avoid the spotlight.

The issue here by the way is not "if" their popups are on Zango, it's why. Anyone can verify the "if" part within a few minutes after installing Zango.

The only two companies I am really interested in here are AFF/Cams and iFriends since I currently send traffic to both of them.

AFF/Cams has admitted publicly that they currently use Zango. I don't agree with their reasoning but I do know where they stand "officially".

iFriends doesn't post on boards apparently so it's hard to get an "official" word from them. The closest I've seen is an email that they sent to an Affiliate that he was kind enough to post on gfy that basically stated that they did try an Adware company a few years ago but don't do anything like that anymore and don't approve of that type of marketing etc.

May I present exhibit one below. This is a screenshot taken a couple days ago that shows a Zango iFriends popup over iFriends site.



I have seen several varieties of these as I'm sure everyone who has played with Zango has. Some go to alternate landing pages like sizzlingcams, incredicams and some go to Clickcash affilate sites.

These iFriends Zango popups happen when I visit my own sites that have links to ifriends.com and cams.com on the pages as well as when just going to ifriends.com as the screenshot depicts.

I have sent the info to Clickcash and they say they are investigating it. I have also given Will the info to pass on to them. This has been going on since I first installed Zango so I would assume it has been occurring for some time before that yet these same accounts are still active. There are four or five accounts in total I have noticed where my cookie gets swapped out for theirs.

Here's the funny part. Most of the time, indeed it was like five times in a row yesterday, the same Clickcash account appears. The name of the account is "180SOLUTIONS" Does that name sound familiar?

It should as Zango = 180Solutions.

So according to my two braincells worth of deductive reasoning combined with the online detective course I just completed I must assume at least one of the following possibilities is true:

1) iFriends buys popups on Zango.
2) Zango is a Clickcash affiliate.
3) A rogue Clickcash affiliate buys ads on Zango and decided to name his account this to be able to track sales easily.

Ok lets start with number 3)

A rogue affiliate sending traffic from an unaccepted source would be shut down immediately when iFriends found out about it. They would of course be shut down within hours if they made an account name describing their unacceptable traffic source.

I know they monitor new account names because I tried to make one a few years ago called "younggirls" or something similiar and they shut it down the same day saying that the word "young" implied underage and to choose another name.

So yeah if I made an account name "ISPAMAIM" or whatever I wouldn't last long.

No affiliate would name his account giving away his traffic source especially if he knew it was unacceptable and was just hoping to get a few checks before they found out.

So that leaves the most likely explanation being that iFriends buys popups on Zango and/or allows their affiliates to do so as I would be seeing different names if they were cancelling them and new rogue affiliates were popping up.

I certainly wouldn't put it past Zango to be a Clickcash affiliate. After all they monetize and remonetize every inch of their site, stealing and selling back the traffic over and over. But how can that be as iFriends has said that they don't approve of this type of marketing?

No judgements here, just facts concerning Zango. No insults to iFriends, AFF, Lars, Will or anyone else. I still send traffic to both companies for now. These are my deductions based on what I see.

Download Zango if you haven't already to confirm this.

I for one would be more than willing to participate in a class action suit as long as it was against ALL Sponsors using Zango not just one or two.

I have heard however that legal action by Sponsors against Zango for allowing competitors to bid on their sites and trademarked names would be more likely to succeed so lets hope something gets moving on that idea.

[AllStar]

Wow very intersting.
As I know people here on GFY and company owners I wouldn't past both of them being in bed together with each other. lars taking the brunt and then Ifriends(will76) saying that they have no choice but to compete with them. In the end Lars is right...Bahhhh

[Xenophage]

ahhaahhaah this is some funny shit so basically will pointing out zango to ifrineds they found a new source of traffic and are now buying direct from zango . Oh man this takes the cake. Will76 you absolutely have to stop promoting Ifriends or your gonna have to eat crow brother. You said if they support it you would drop them in a second after allt eh tounge lashing you been dishing out to me over the last month you have to put your $$$ where your mouth is and terminate your relationship, if you do not then it shows your all about the $$ and your talk of ethics is all bullshit.

[RSgk11]

Lars Has A Very Good Point There! Put Up Or S.t.f.u.

[studiocritic]

if only everyone posted such well thought out posts..

[Xenophage]

I have heard however that legal action by Sponsors against Zango for allowing competitors to bid on their sites and trademarked names would be more likely to succeed so lets hope something gets moving on that idea.

Sadly you heard that from Will and it is untrue, if someone is able to get their trademark names removed from the bidding we would be very happy with this.

The legal area here is very ugly and convoluted, we are still looking at our legal options.

[jacklaidlaw]

I think will76 should drop ifriends I have supported everything he has said up untill I seen this thread. You can't have your cake and eat it will! I am not having a dig at you I am just saying if you truely believed in the anti zango thing you would cut all ties with companies that use zango

[marketsmart]

Sadly you heard that from Will and it is untrue, if someone is able to get their trademark names removed from the bidding we would be very happy with this.

The legal area here is very ugly and convoluted, we are still looking at our legal options.

wait... i was told by someone today (not will) that zango will not let you bid on aff or cams... is that true?

[studiocritic]

wait... i was told by someone today (not will) that zango will not let you bid on aff or cams... is that true?

no.

8cha

[jacklaidlaw]

Also now that I know that aff does NOT target their own affiliates I feel like an ass for making loads of posts and pictures about them. I was under the impression that they were stealing from their own affiliates and I would like to apologize to adultfriender/lars for my posts as they were based on untruths

[BoyAlley]

I think will76 should drop ifriends I have supported everything he has said up untill I seen this thread. You can't have your cake and eat it will! I am not having a dig at you I am just saying if you truely believed in the anti zango thing you would cut all ties with companies that use zango

According to Will76 I am completely wrong that the reason he's been going after Lars so hard is that he's a competitor of iFriends. He says he's not going after Lars, he's going after companies that support adware.

We'll soon find out if that's true or not, when we see if he drops iFriends and starts speaking out against them too...........

[Mutt]

i support Will but if it turns out iFriends is also supporting Zango then no question he has to stop promoting them to have any credibility.

[SmokeyTheBear]

ozman has a point will76 i think its only fair you cut new traffic to them..

No offense to either but i'm not promoting companies who support spyware period and in zango's case it seems like spyware isnt the only "wrong side of the tracks" tactics they have used.

I have respected and admired lars for awhile and it isnt anything personal, its the same reason why lars isnt cutting zango off, its business.

Now i'm not too big on dating traffic anyways so its no big loss to me.. maybe over time aff and others will see a strong reputation outweighs the quick buck ( or maybe it doesnt ) not my call..

[marketsmart]

no.

8cha

so you are saying that you can bid on those urls?

[tical]

where is will at?

[CaptainHowdy]

Good Lord...

[Brujah]

Drop an email to [email protected] with a link to this thread.

[Dirty F]

If Will doesnt drop Ifriend immediatly he will be the biggest fucking hypocrite on this board.

[Spunky]

All this Zango shit makes my head hurt

[Brujah]

If Will doesnt drop Ifriend immediatly he will be the biggest fucking hypocrite on this board.

If Will is the biggest hypocrit on the board, it still doesn't mean anything except that he was a hypocrit.

The Zango message involving AFF and Lars and SexSearch is still accurate, and plenty of others on GFY are saying it.

[studiocritic]

so you are saying that you can bid on those urls?

i'm saying that anyone who signs up for zango and funds an advertising account, will be able to target those urls just like any others - yes.

like lars said previously, as far as we (the collective industry) know, you can't prevent Zango from allowing people to target your URLs - regardless of any trademark.

[Sean]

where is will?

[Sean]

where is will?

[Tryme]

Also now that I know that aff does NOT target their own affiliates I feel like an ass for making loads of posts and pictures about them. I was under the impression that they were stealing from their own affiliates and I would like to apologize to adultfriender/lars for my posts as they were based on untruths

You are wrong, AFF targets affiliates traffic.

[RawAlex]

Ozman, I have to ask the following questions to clear some things up:

First off, does it come up on an affiliate link or only on a direct home page access (IE, is ifriends ripping off it's affiliates, or are they only protecting their own space from other, umm, predatory companies?)

Second, is that the initial page you are seeing, or is there an affiliate code in it?

Third, how much do you think it would cost for a third party to buy that space for a couple of days just long enough to get some screen shots?

Enquiring Minds Want To Know!

[Sean]

when will will76 stop supporting clickcash?

[OzMan]

First off, does it come up on an affiliate link or only on a direct home page access (IE, is ifriends ripping off it's affiliates, or are they only protecting their own space from other, umm, predatory companies?)

It comes up when I go to my own sites that have ifriends and cams.com links on them. It has also come up when I click the join link on my sites. Same thing for the ifriends.com homepage as per the screenshot I posted.

Second, is that the initial page you are seeing, or is there an affiliate code in it?

That is the initial page I am seeing. Most of the time it has no affiliate code in it. I guess the cookie is set in a frame or something. The only way I know my cookie has been overwritten is to monitor my cookie file.


Third, how much do you think it would cost for a third party to buy that space for a couple of days just long enough to get some screen shots?

Not sure I understand this part. You can install Zango and get all the screenshots of popups you want if you open the browser enough times. Zango says they limit it to something like 6 per day but it's quite a few more than that.

If you meant to buy some ads on Zango to test stuff out I have no idea.

[RawAlex]

when will will76 stop supporting clickcash?

I don't think that will's support of or lack of support of any particular program excuses any other program's actions.

Attempting to "manage the news cycle" won't change the facts of how widespread the misappropriation of traffic and how products like Zango damage the viability of the affiliate system, specifically when the affiliate programs enter into situations where they can effectively steal from their own affiliates.

Until that issue gets addressed, the actions of any individual webmaster, even one that has so obviously peed off lars isn't anywhere near as important.

Mud slinging just makes you look way more guilty.

[lucky1]

when will will76 stop supporting clickcash?

When will my questions get answered? https://gfy.com/node/649617

[RawAlex]

Ozman, no, let me give you a hypothetical, okay?

HYPOTHETICALLY, let's say you are running a really big affiliate program (ozmanlive.com), and you are getting a ton of heat for doing a pretty dirty thing to your affiliates. Let's say, you decide that you don't want to change your ways, but you want the heat to go away. Let's say your making an ass load of money, and don't mind spending a bit to pour mud all over the asshole ruining your perfectly good and very dirty way of making money.

So what do you do? You sign up to Zango, and pay for popups for ifrends on top of ifriends (maybe with your affiliate code, natch) and then you point this out to someone, who points it out to someone, who then comes on GFY and starts a "hahahahaha" thread.

Do you see where I am going with this?

Controlling the news cycle. Discrediting the whistleblower. Changing the quesiton from one of affiliates getting screwed to one of the individual ethics of the whistleblower....

just a hypothetical thought, you know...

[Xenophage]

Ozman, no, let me give you a hypothetical, okay?

HYPOTHETICALLY, let's say you are running a really big affiliate program (ozmanlive.com), and you are getting a ton of heat for doing a pretty dirty thing to your affiliates. Let's say, you decide that you don't want to change your ways, but you want the heat to go away. Let's say your making an ass load of money, and don't mind spending a bit to pour mud all over the asshole ruining your perfectly good and very dirty way of making money.

So what do you do? You sign up to Zango, and pay for popups for ifrends on top of ifriends (maybe with your affiliate code, natch) and then you point this out to someone, who points it out to someone, who then comes on GFY and starts a "hahahahaha" thread.

Do you see where I am going with this?

Controlling the news cycle. Discrediting the whistleblower. Changing the quesiton from one of affiliates getting screwed to one of the individual ethics of the whistleblower....

just a hypothetical thought, you know...

Yeah its an interesting conspiricy theory but alas its not accurate as we did not buy that ad.

[RawAlex]

Lars, hypothetical... plus it could be anyone, including any of the agressive anti-will posters on the board, anyone else who is dealing with Zango, or, heck, ZANGO THEMSELVES.

It's all hypothetical, but I can see how you are working hard to manage the news cycle on this and trying to push all your good news and contest threads to the top. You are certainly having to put an effort in this month.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ozman, no, let me give you a hypothetical, okay?

HYPOTHETICALLY, let's say you are running a really big affiliate program (ozmanlive.com), and you are getting a ton of heat for doing a pretty dirty thing to your affiliates. Let's say, you decide that you don't want to change your ways, but you want the heat to go away. Let's say your making an ass load of money, and don't mind spending a bit to pour mud all over the asshole ruining your perfectly good and very dirty way of making money.

So what do you do? You sign up to Zango, and pay for popups for ifrends on top of ifriends (maybe with your affiliate code, natch) and then you point this out to someone, who points it out to someone, who then comes on GFY and starts a "hahahahaha" thread.

Do you see where I am going with this?

Controlling the news cycle. Discrediting the whistleblower. Changing the quesiton from one of affiliates getting screwed to one of the individual ethics of the whistleblower....

just a hypothetical thought, you know...

i thought about this as well . knowing ifriends doesnt really come on the boards its doubtfull they would even defend themselves, but then again stranger things have happened.

[Mr Pheer]

will must be hiding in the corner, crying in disbelief

[RawAlex]

Smokey, I just find it funny that it is suddenly full court press on Will on this issue - all guns blazing, a major, major attempt to divert the discussion away from what AFF (largest cam program on the net, I have been told) may have (apparently unintentionally) been doing to affiliates, and on to a smear the whistleblower campaign.

I have never seen so many posts from Lars on this subject until now. When the question were out there, we got one weak statement and a bunch of "we are having out best (insert day month year period or week here)" threads.

It isn't hard to imagine some coordinated grave dancing going on.

[Missie]

Sadly you heard that from Will and it is untrue, if someone is able to get their trademark names removed from the bidding we would be very happy with this.

The legal area here is very ugly and convoluted, we are still looking at our legal options.

There's nothing ugly, convoluted or impossible here.

It can and has been done by many before. If you or your lawyers don't know how to do this, contact Ben Edelman at www.benedelman.org and he can help with this.

Several lawsuits have also been won by companies that sued adware for popping competing ads over their sites. Some decided to just settle while those that went all the way were ORDERED BY THE COURT to stop. If you just go to Ben's site above, you can see and read all about it.

However, if you're doing the same thing to them, you probably don't have much of a case.

Missie

[Penthouse Tony]

will must be hiding in the corner, crying in disbelief

Hopefully he is pulling his traffic. Surely if he thinks AFF ending it's deal with Zango will be the end of Zango he likewise things that ending his relationship with iFriends will kill them.

[OzMan]

RawAlex, I guess anything is possible.

But remember now, I have seen the same multiple Clickcash accounts on there doing this for at least couple weeks now since I downloaded Zango. Are all these Clickcash accounts part of your conspiracy theory? Why haven't any of these been canned?

For all I know AFF and Clickcash and others could have both been buying ads on there for months. Who is to say who did it first and therefore would need to cover up something?

[RawAlex]

Hopefully he is pulling his traffic. Surely if he thinks AFF ending it's deal with Zango will be the end of Zango he likewise things that ending his relationship with iFriends will kill them.

...and Sagi, if you think dumping shit on Will makes anything that your company is doing somehow "better"... well...

[SomeCreep]

ahhaahhaah this is some funny shit so basically will pointing out zango to ifrineds they found a new source of traffic and are now buying direct from zango . Oh man this takes the cake. Will76 you absolutely have to stop promoting Ifriends or your gonna have to eat crow brother. You said if they support it you would drop them in a second after allt eh tounge lashing you been dishing out to me over the last month you have to put your $$$ where your mouth is and terminate your relationship, if you do not then it shows your all about the $$ and your talk of ethics is all bullshit.

Lol, check mate.

[Xenophage]

There's nothing ugly, convoluted or impossible here.

It can and has been done by many before. If you or your lawyers don't know how to do this, contact Ben Edelman at www.benedelman.org and he can help with this.

Several lawsuits have also been won by companies that sued adware for popping competing ads over their sites. Some decided to just settle while those that went all the way were ORDERED BY THE COURT to stop. If you just go to Ben's site above, you can see and read all about it.

However, if you're doing the same thing to them, you probably don't have much of a case.

Missie

and many more were lost do your homework get a real lawyer to tell you what is what, that is what I did

[Penthouse Tony]

...and Sagi, if you think dumping shit on Will makes anything that your company is doing somehow "better"... well...

Alex I'm not trying to make my company look "better". I don't have a problem with the way my company conducts business. I have a problem with Will. I have a problem with him calling me a thief and erroneously saying that my affiliates aren't making money.

[Tryme]

where is will the thrill

[spasmo]

Alex I'm not trying to make my company look "better". I don't have a problem with the way my company conducts business. I have a problem with Will. I have a problem with him calling me a thief and erroneously saying that my affiliates aren't making money.

I've gone neutral on the matter as too much bullshit is flying around. That being said, I have not dropped a single AFF property from promotion. I did drop ClickCash in late 2005, however, as they were no longer converting for me (yes, the clicks were getting through).

One thing I've noticed is that AFF/Cams can pretty much fill the front page of GFY without paying a dime for stickies or contests at this point. Courtesy of Will.

[Missie]

and many more were lost do your homework get a real lawyer to tell you what is what, that is what I did

A real lawyer would win that case for you. But like I said, if you're doing the same thing to others, the only thing you're left with is a lost case.

On the other hand, you CAN have other companies stop popping ads over your site by just having your lawyers contact the adware scumbags with a well written complaint letter. If you're serious, Ben can help your legal team with that. He's done it for many others in the past, He's been on the litigation side of this problem long enough to understand better than most how it really works.

Missie

[Brujah]

Alex I'm not trying to make my company look "better". I don't have a problem with the way my company conducts business. I have a problem with Will. I have a problem with him calling me a thief and erroneously saying that my affiliates aren't making money.

You understand he's calling you a thief in generic terms, because of the stolen sales AFF takes by supporting Zango. There's no doubt in anyone's mind that Zango does steal a percentage of traffic. Have you convinced yourself that it's ok and necessary?

[Xenophage]

I've gone neutral on the matter as too much bullshit is flying around. That being said, I have not dropped a single AFF property from promotion. I did drop ClickCash in late 2005, however, as they were no longer converting for me (yes, the clicks were getting through).

One thing I've noticed is that AFF/Cams can pretty much fill the front page of GFY without paying a dime for stickies or contests at this point. Courtesy of Will.

Yup thanks will

[Penthouse Tony]

You understand he's calling you a thief in generic terms, because of the stolen sales AFF takes by supporting Zango. There's no doubt in anyone's mind that Zango does steal a percentage of traffic. Have you convinced yourself that it's ok and necessary?

Recently a friend of mine at another company was telling me about this software that he is working on. You download this app the silently runs in the background. Lets say you are shopping for a new camera and you find it on Bestbuy.com. When you are actually looking at the product page a popup comes up with all the other stores (amazon, walmart, etc) that sell this item at a cheaper cost. I thought it was a cool program. I'm going to download it when it's out of beta.

To answer your question I have no problem with pops.

[martinsc]

where is will????

[Brujah]

Recently a friend of mine at another company was telling me about this software that he is working on. You download this app the silently runs in the background. Lets say you are shopping for a new camera and you find it on Bestbuy.com. When you are actually looking at the product page a popup comes up with all the other stores (amazon, walmart, etc) that sell this item at a cheaper cost. I thought it was a cool program. I'm going to download it when it's out of beta.

To answer your question I have no problem with pops.

Aww, a cute story to colorize the black and white version? Short answer = Yes, you've convinced yourself that Zango traffic interception is OK.