Attention Ashcash.net Affiliates - GoFuckYourself.com

Mike69 · 03-07-2007, 09:45 PM

Due to an error in the tracking system, some sales have not been credited to webmasters.

We do however, have all click stats. To resolve this issue we have decided to payout all webmasters
based on clicks sent. This will have no effect on your sales and rebill money, you will get the per click
payout on top of your regular CCBill payouts.

You will be paid on your clicks from Dec 15 2006 - March 11 2007

This will give us time to change the system to be sure the CCBill tracking system works 100%

Please check your email address you have registered with CCBill for more details.

uno · 03-07-2007, 09:46 PM

Wow.

....

SBJ · 03-07-2007, 09:47 PM

ok i'll send my info i guess....

seeric · 03-07-2007, 09:47 PM

hey man whats happenin? how ya been?

Mike69 · 03-07-2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1R3K

hey man whats happenin? how ya been?

lmao.. could be better

long time no talk....

well not really.. just had a baby boy on thursday..

will76 · 03-07-2007, 09:52 PM

WOW 3 months..... thats a long time before someone noticed this.

Mike69 · 03-07-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

WOW 3 months..... thats a long time before someone noticed this.

It has not been 3 months... we just decided to go back that far...

Call it an extra bonus...

Chest Rockwell · 03-07-2007, 09:55 PM

So has the tracking been fixed?

Jace · 03-07-2007, 09:55 PM

and the fucking link codes STILL don't work

http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clic...leybrookes.com

click join, you get the ccbill join form, then it redirects instantly to NATS, where the affiliate gets NO credit because they surfer didn't sign up using the ccbill form

Mike69 · 03-07-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chest Rockwell

So has the tracking been fixed?

being worked on now..

its more complicated then you think, the entire membership system was turned over to Nats, and working great.. need to make some major changes to seperate it....

hence the extra payout time

"You will be paid on your clicks from Dec 15 2006 - March 11 2007

This will give us time to change the system to be sure the CCBill tracking system works 100%"

Jace · 03-07-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chest Rockwell

So has the tracking been fixed?

no

click this link

http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clic...leybrookes.com

now click a join link, it shows the ccbill form for 1 second and then redirects to a nats join page, there is a meta redirect in the ccbill join page that sends you to nats where NO ccbill affiliate will get credit for any sales

Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-07-2007, 09:57 PM

so my question is, would this thread have been made if that other thread calling you guys out wasn't made?

Jace · 03-07-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike69

being worked on now..

its more complicated then you think, th entire mebership system was turned over to Nats, and working great.. need to make some major changes to seperate it....

hence the extra payout time

"You will be paid on your clicks from Dec 15 2006 - March 11 2007

This will give us time to change the system to be sure the CCBill tracking system works 100%"

no, it is VERY simple

take out the line of code that says meta redirect in the ccbill join form

cybermike · 03-07-2007, 09:59 PM

so I can send all my 404 traffic for the next couple of days and get paid on that?

Mike69 · 03-07-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madrox

so my question is, would this thread have been made if that other thread calling you guys out wasn't made?

Thats the great thing about affiliates.. something wrong and they find it right away...

Mutt's still pissed at Ash and wants everyone to think things are on purpose.

And after talking to CCBill tech yesterday, they could not figure out why the cookie was not being read and were going to send it to thier programming dept.

But does nto matter what caused the error, the fact remains, webmasters were not being credited for sales... we are taking steps to more then make up for it.

Jace · 03-07-2007, 10:02 PM

META REDIRECT...TAKE THAT LINE OUT OF THE CCBILL PAGE AND YOUR PROBLEM IS SOLVED

jeez, even an entry level html kid can figure this out

Mike69 · 03-07-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybermike

so I can send all my 404 traffic for the next couple of days and get paid on that?

LMAO... did I forget to mention this is only for currently affected affiliates.

We know your click stats, so anyone trying to abuse this offer will not get it.

Jace · 03-07-2007, 10:04 PM

here, I even went a step further

here is the exact line on
http://tour1.ashleybrookes.com/join.html
that is causing the issue

<META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh" content="0;URL=http://ab.adultdimensions.com/signup/signup.php?nats=MDowOjE&step=2">

Jace · 03-07-2007, 10:05 PM

sorry, I said redirect, and it is actually REFRESH

you are sending ccbill surfers to a nats page, when in fact no one can sign up to promote her using NATS

will76 · 03-07-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike69

It has not been 3 months... we just decided to go back that far...

Call it an extra bonus...

ah ok, so its only been happening for what, 1 week and you just decided to go back 3 months to play it safe

will76 · 03-07-2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madrox

so my question is, would this thread have been made if that other thread calling you guys out wasn't made?

no because apparently no one would have noticed the problem.

Mike69 · 03-07-2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

here, I even went a step further

here is the exact line on
http://tour1.ashleybrookes.com/join.html
that is causing the issue

<META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh" content="0;URL=http://ab.adultdimensions.com/signup/signup.php?nats=MDowOjE&step=2">

LMAO.. your so clever...

Jace · 03-07-2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike69

LMAO.. your so clever...

absolutely nothing to do with being clever, it has to do with some shady shit you all were caught doing and that needs to be fixed

no worries though, unfortunately it is way too late, you are on just about every forum for being a cheater now...shame too, cause I have people telling me you are a pretty good guy and go way back in the biz

I guess my only question is, why start cheating now? and why not stop when caught?

will76 · 03-07-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike69

Thats the great thing about affiliates.. something wrong and they find it right away...

Mutt's still pissed at Ash and wants everyone to think things are on purpose.

And after talking to CCBill tech yesterday, they could not figure out why the cookie was not being read and were going to send it to thier programming dept.

But does nto matter what caused the error, the fact remains, webmasters were not being credited for sales... we are taking steps to more then make up for it.

I know you trying to save face and spin shit here but I don't understand why people can't say " i fucked up, sorry I didn't mean to, I will make it up to you".

You are saying "great thing about affiliates something wrong and they catch it right away..." So you trying to say this problem just started happening but you decided to pay people all the way back to Dec 11 th last year ? Did you throw a dart at the calendar to come up with that date ?

From what I am reading it makes it sound like you are blamming ccbill for the problem. And it does matter whos fault it was, especially if it is yours and you trying to pass it off on someone else.

Too much bullshit before and after with this whole situation.

Jace · 03-07-2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

I know you trying to save face and spin shit here but I don't understand why people can't say " i fucked up, sorry I didn't mean to, I will make it up to you".

You are saying "great thing about affiliates something wrong and they catch it right away..." So you trying to say this problem just started happening but you decided to pay people all the way back to Dec 11 th last year ? Did you throw a dart at the calendar to come up with that date ?

From what I am reading it makes it sound like you are blamming ccbill for the problem. And it does matter whos fault it was, especially if it is yours and you trying to pass it off on someone else.

Too much bullshit before and after with this whole situation.

and the best part, the part that I am laughing on icq with people about, is that he STILL hasn't fixed the issue...it is a 10 SECOND fix with any copy of notepade...hell, even a good ftp program can do it by clicking "EDIT" LOL...

cybermike · 03-07-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike69

LMAO... did I forget to mention this is only for currently affected affiliates.

We know your click stats, so anyone trying to abuse this offer will not get it.

Affected affiliates? Its effecting EVERY affiliate that sends traffic

tenderobject · 03-07-2007, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

whos affiliate code is this? MDowOjE he is lucky lol..

this would be like 5 pages i think.

corvette · 03-07-2007, 10:45 PM

Just to be clear to everyone in this thread, the CCBill affiliate system has tracked and continues to track clicks/signups accurately, when used correctly without specific outside influences or manipulation

Mike69 · 03-07-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corvette

Just to be clear to everyone in this thread, the CCBill affiliate system has tracked and continues to track clicks/signups accurately, when used correctly without specific outside influences or manipulation

It seems not to be CCbill, I am being told that they are being passed a bogus ID that is over riding thier system. And until setting up the default Nats join page, we had 0 issue with CCBill, so I tend to believe them...

Tat2Jr · 03-07-2007, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

HEY! I know how to do a Meta Refresh!!!! Who knew I was a master programmer? Anyone need any programing done? I know about BR tags too!

Juilan · 03-07-2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

I know you trying to save face and spin shit here but I don't understand why people can't say " i fucked up, sorry I didn't mean to, I will make it up to you".

Exactly. All the posturing to avoid bad publicity actually generates a different type of bad publicity.

V_RocKs · 03-07-2007, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike69

LMAO.. your so clever...

Wow... The guy gives you the code and this is your response?

Holy shit!

I would have expected something like, "Thanks, Jace, I will forward this to the admin asap and get it corrected ASAP!"

What you said reminds me of a wife killer acting like nothing has happened and is giving no remorse for his dead wife but proclaiming his innocence...

Maybe you should change your name to Scott?

makefuckingmoney · 03-07-2007, 11:16 PM

i trust ccbill with all my cookies

modF · 03-07-2007, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenderobject

whos affiliate code is this? MDowOjE he is lucky lol..

this would be like 5 pages i think.

That would be the NATS default code for site id #1 when no affiliate code is passed. In other words, his.

uno · 03-07-2007, 11:38 PM

What are you paying per click? Maybe I'll send some traffic.

Jace · 03-07-2007, 11:54 PM

as of now the code that would take 10 seconds to remove is STILL there...LOL

PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE · 03-07-2007, 11:55 PM

Wow nice to see people being honest instead of trying to get away with free sales

Kudos to ashcash

makefuckingmoney · 03-08-2007, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

as of now the code that would take 10 seconds to remove is STILL there...LOL

is that really all it would take?

was noone getting any signups at all?

i dont get why this wasnt noticed a long time ago?

Jace · 03-08-2007, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE

Wow nice to see people being honest instead of trying to get away with free sales

Kudos to ashcash

did you even read the thread?

Jace · 03-08-2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makefuckingmoney

is that really all it would take?

was noone getting any signups at all?

i dont get why this wasnt noticed a long time ago?

yes, it is a simple html meta refresh in the head of the ccbill form.....I can't believe ccbill isn't going after this as misuse, especially AFTER the fix has been discovered and this proclaimed "PROGRAMMER" won't take the time to make it right

BSleazy · 03-08-2007, 12:35 AM

It sickens me that nobody wants to respond or even recognize Jace's findings here.

Jace · 03-08-2007, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCyber

It sickens me that nobody wants to respond or even recognize Jace's findings here.

unfortunately it is typical, if I keep on speaking about about this particular issue for long enough I will start being referred to as a "whiner" and a "typical gfy troll"

will76 · 03-08-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

unfortunately it is typical, if I keep on speaking about about this particular issue for long enough I will start being referred to as a "whiner" and a "typical gfy troll"

dude shut up already.

after 10 posts of hearing how something shady, scamming, spyware, etc... is fucking everyone, don't you know it is unpopular to keep talking about these issues. No one wants to hear it anymore.

please i am tired of hearing about this already....

now please i am trying to read the would you hit it threads and this is filling up the board

TMM_John · 03-08-2007, 12:48 AM

Jace, shoot me an ICQ if you have a sec, 5596373.

PornoMonster · 03-08-2007, 12:50 AM

gfy.com/showthread.php?t=712273 GOOD READ
gfy.com/showthread.php?t=712273

Nice quotes from mike in that thread, some conflict?

"I don't own the program, and don't make anything from it."
"and Yes, Ashcash.net will be AdultDimensions.com soon..."
"All webmasters are getting credit for all sales and rebills..."
"Im looking at CCBill right now... nothing wrong with sales... sales are great..
rebills are even better"
"An error has been found in the tracking system"

Ok, a guy who knows the ins and outs of web browsers, cookies and so on....
A guy who writes Internet Eraser program, made to do a FEW of the Following

:: Prevents Sites from improperly changing your Home Page!
:: Erases Windows' secret index.dat file
:: Erases 'autocomplete' site addresses
:: Erases Windows Temp Directories
:: Erases Recent Files List
:: Erases My Documents Files (if you want to)
:: Erases Recycle Bin
:: Erases Browser Cache Files
:: Erases Browser Cookies
:: Erases Browser Favorites (if you want to)
:: Erases Browser History Logs
:: Erases User Selected Directories
:: Overwrites Any Files You Specify with Random Data - Then Deletes Them!
:: Frees space on your Hard Drive
:: Makes your PC run faster!
:: Runs As Often as You Specify - Automatically
:: Uninstall and Reinstall in Seconds

Gets the Setup wrong? No way......
Or a Program that Only pays out with ccbill, never logs in to make sure everything is running correct Since December 06??
How about Testing the Links when the New System went in place? Watching affiliate payout in ccbill for a few days to make sure everything was working ok?
I have heard from to many people that sales dropped off to almost nothing, and the mostly say about the same time frame......

But, during all this, a simple easy fix was found. Anyone switching from ccbill to NATS, just remember to keep everything separate, run 2 different touring systems with different signup forms.
ccbill code should never see nats code, and nats code should never see ccbill code.....
sitename.com/ccbill -- tour -- signup form
sitename.com/nats -- tour signup form (different from the one above)
I am sure there are more ways to keep everything Tracking correctly, and one would think a guy with your credentials would know this.

How many people are going to even bother with the 1.5 cents
How long does a person rebill?

Ok it feels like a dead horse now.......

Just a couple of things
Karma -- Birds of a Feather --

gfy.com/showthread.php?t=712273
gfy.com/showthread.php?t=712273

woj · 03-08-2007, 12:51 AM

Deej · 03-08-2007, 12:52 AM

Far out man

PornoMonster · 03-08-2007, 12:53 AM

[QUOTE=Mike69;12038186]Thats the great thing about affiliates.. something wrong and they find it right away...

QUOTE]

RIGHT AWAY, it is called Months.... Most people have said sales dropped off in Dec and Jan, or that is when they Noticed it.........

Jace · 03-08-2007, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

Jace, shoot me an ICQ if you have a sec, 5596373.

hey man, I tried hitting you up...i have been away for a little while tonight....get at me tomorrow if you aren't around more tonight

aico · 03-08-2007, 01:39 AM

oy vey....

03-07-2007, 09:46 PM	#2
uno RIP Dodger. BEST.CAT.EVER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NYC Area Posts: 18,450	Wow. .... __________________ -uno icq: 111-914 CrazyBabe.com - porn art MojoHost - For all your hosting needs, present and future. Tell them I sent ya!

03-07-2007, 09:47 PM	#3
SBJ So Fucking Fabulous Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 11,354	ok i'll send my info i guess.... __________________ Chaturbate - Make tons of money from Cams! *Name Silo - Domains under $9 and free ID protect*

03-07-2007, 09:52 PM	#6
will76 Making $$$$ w/ ClickCash Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 18,037	WOW 3 months..... thats a long time before someone noticed this. __________________ ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com PROGRAM SHIT LIST - DO NOT PROMOTE (click link for gfy thread) FNCash \| Media Revenue

03-07-2007, 09:59 PM	#14
cybermike Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ny Posts: 4,068	so I can send all my 404 traffic for the next couple of days and get paid on that? __________________ Hey surfers how about some The Best Porn Sites

03-07-2007, 10:45 PM	#28
corvette Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: scottsdale Posts: 7,880	Just to be clear to everyone in this thread, the CCBill affiliate system has tracked and continues to track clicks/signups accurately, when used correctly without specific outside influences or manipulation __________________ If you need a good company for check writing services, then check out checkissuing, and for webhosting, check out Phoenix NAP

03-07-2007, 09:45 PM	#1
Mike69 Canadian, nuff said eh? Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Under the coffee maker! Posts: 755	Attention Ashcash.net Affiliates Due to an error in the tracking system, some sales have not been credited to webmasters. We do however, have all click stats. To resolve this issue we have decided to payout all webmasters based on clicks sent. This will have no effect on your sales and rebill money, you will get the per click payout on top of your regular CCBill payouts. You will be paid on your clicks from Dec 15 2006 - March 11 2007 This will give us time to change the system to be sure the CCBill tracking system works 100% Please check your email address you have registered with CCBill for more details.

03-07-2007, 09:47 PM	#4
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,918	hey man whats happenin? how ya been?

03-07-2007, 09:55 PM	#8
Chest Rockwell Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Jack's House Posts: 137	So has the tracking been fixed?

03-07-2007, 09:55 PM	#9
Jace FBOP Class Of 2013 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: bumfuck, ky Posts: 35,562	and the fucking link codes STILL don't work http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clic...leybrookes.com click join, you get the ccbill join form, then it redirects instantly to NATS, where the affiliate gets NO credit because they surfer didn't sign up using the ccbill form

03-07-2007, 09:57 PM	#12
Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE MOBILE PORN: IMOBILEPORN Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Tinseltown NL Posts: 16,502	so my question is, would this thread have been made if that other thread calling you guys out wasn't made?

03-07-2007, 10:02 PM	#16
Jace FBOP Class Of 2013 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: bumfuck, ky Posts: 35,562	META REDIRECT...TAKE THAT LINE OUT OF THE CCBILL PAGE AND YOUR PROBLEM IS SOLVED jeez, even an entry level html kid can figure this out

03-07-2007, 10:04 PM	#18
Jace FBOP Class Of 2013 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: bumfuck, ky Posts: 35,562	here, I even went a step further here is the exact line on http://tour1.ashleybrookes.com/join.html that is causing the issue <META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh" content="0;URL=http://ab.adultdimensions.com/signup/signup.php?nats=MDowOjE&step=2">

03-07-2007, 10:05 PM	#19
Jace FBOP Class Of 2013 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: bumfuck, ky Posts: 35,562	sorry, I said redirect, and it is actually REFRESH you are sending ccbill surfers to a nats page, when in fact no one can sign up to promote her using NATS

03-07-2007, 11:16 PM	#33
makefuckingmoney Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,277	i trust ccbill with all my cookies

03-07-2007, 11:38 PM	#35
uno RIP Dodger. BEST.CAT.EVER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NYC Area Posts: 18,450	What are you paying per click? Maybe I'll send some traffic. __________________ -uno icq: 111-914 CrazyBabe.com - porn art MojoHost - For all your hosting needs, present and future. Tell them I sent ya!

03-07-2007, 11:54 PM	#36
Jace FBOP Class Of 2013 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: bumfuck, ky Posts: 35,562	as of now the code that would take 10 seconds to remove is STILL there...LOL

03-07-2007, 11:55 PM	#37
PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,090	Wow nice to see people being honest instead of trying to get away with free sales Kudos to ashcash __________________ Hire a PHP Coder

03-08-2007, 12:35 AM	#41
BSleazy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: USA Posts: 6,721	It sickens me that nobody wants to respond or even recognize Jace's findings here. __________________ icq 156131086

03-08-2007, 12:48 AM	#44
TMM_John Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 6,658	Jace, shoot me an ICQ if you have a sec, 5596373. __________________ Skype: JohnA1078 Too Much Media - Makers of the Industry's Leading Payite Management Platform, NATS!

03-08-2007, 12:50 AM	#45
PornoMonster Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,257	gfy.com/showthread.php?t=712273 GOOD READ gfy.com/showthread.php?t=712273 Nice quotes from mike in that thread, some conflict? "I don't own the program, and don't make anything from it." "and Yes, Ashcash.net will be AdultDimensions.com soon..." "All webmasters are getting credit for all sales and rebills..." "Im looking at CCBill right now... nothing wrong with sales... sales are great.. rebills are even better" "An error has been found in the tracking system" Ok, a guy who knows the ins and outs of web browsers, cookies and so on.... A guy who writes Internet Eraser program, made to do a FEW of the Following :: Prevents Sites from improperly changing your Home Page! :: Erases Windows' secret index.dat file :: Erases 'autocomplete' site addresses :: Erases Windows Temp Directories :: Erases Recent Files List :: Erases My Documents Files (if you want to) :: Erases Recycle Bin :: Erases Browser Cache Files :: Erases Browser Cookies :: Erases Browser Favorites (if you want to) :: Erases Browser History Logs :: Erases User Selected Directories :: Overwrites Any Files You Specify with Random Data - Then Deletes Them! :: Frees space on your Hard Drive :: Makes your PC run faster! :: Runs As Often as You Specify - Automatically :: Uninstall and Reinstall in Seconds Gets the Setup wrong? No way...... Or a Program that Only pays out with ccbill, never logs in to make sure everything is running correct Since December 06?? How about Testing the Links when the New System went in place? Watching affiliate payout in ccbill for a few days to make sure everything was working ok? I have heard from to many people that sales dropped off to almost nothing, and the mostly say about the same time frame...... But, during all this, a simple easy fix was found. Anyone switching from ccbill to NATS, just remember to keep everything separate, run 2 different touring systems with different signup forms. ccbill code should never see nats code, and nats code should never see ccbill code..... sitename.com/ccbill -- tour -- signup form sitename.com/nats -- tour signup form (different from the one above) I am sure there are more ways to keep everything Tracking correctly, and one would think a guy with your credentials would know this. How many people are going to even bother with the 1.5 cents How long does a person rebill? Ok it feels like a dead horse now....... Just a couple of things Karma -- Birds of a Feather -- gfy.com/showthread.php?t=712273 gfy.com/showthread.php?t=712273

03-08-2007, 12:51 AM	#46
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,883	__________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

03-08-2007, 12:52 AM	#47
Deej I make pixels work Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: I live here... Posts: 24,386	Far out man __________________ Deej's Designs n' What Not Hit me up for Design, CSS & Photo Retouching Icq#30096880

03-08-2007, 12:53 AM	#48
PornoMonster Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,257	[QUOTE=Mike69;12038186]Thats the great thing about affiliates.. something wrong and they find it right away... QUOTE] RIGHT AWAY, it is called Months.... Most people have said sales dropped off in Dec and Jan, or that is when they Noticed it.........

03-08-2007, 01:39 AM	#50
aico Moo Moo Cow Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 14,748	oy vey....