Lets FUCKING HURT SOMEONE - DRAMA!

[JMM]

I've had enough of these youporn sites and torrent sites and all the other bullshit content thieves in this business.

I have also had enough of the idiots within our business that either don't understand why it is wrong or how it hurts all of us.

Nobody wants to take this on all by themselves, so lets do it together (those of you that don't have their heads up their asses and also have two nickels to rub together).

Lets pick one of these U.S. based scumbag thieves, come together, and fucking hurt them, and I mean legally hurt them. We will pick our target, form a group, and retain a group lawyer. Then we go after our target until we bankrupt them into fucking oblivion. Let's not stop with just the thief, lets go after all who benefit from their actions. Their hosting company (you would be surprised how many hosting companies DO NOT HAVE DMCA protection). Let's go after their advertisers.

Sometimes you have to hang a head on the wall so you can point to it and show the other fucktards what is in their future if they don't find jesus.

Who is with me?

The way it will work is that we will pick one target, and go from there. There is a lot more to sue for than just straight out copyright infringement. A case can be stacked so heavily against them, their great grandkids will still be suffering from it. It's simple, contribute what you can to the fund, and whatever percentage you contribute, that is the percentage you will receive of any court awarded and collected damages.

Again, I ask, who is with me?

United we stand, divided we fall.

[High Plains Drifter]

Let's go after their advertisers.

AFF and Fling? You might want to pick up more than one lawyer.

[Mutt]

Jeff years ago i made a post that you shoud be made copyright enforcement czar for the industry.

if u go after Megarotic i'm in for a grand or whatever - how much would it cost to sue Megarotic on the same grounds CBS/Viacom is suing Google/YouTube?

[Mutt]

Traffic Rank for megarotic.com: 89

[dropped9]

Great idea... But for as many years ive been around I have heard this before, but yet to see anything come to fruit...

Good luck!

[RawAlex]

JMM, my suggestion is this: Your sites / program(s) need to post this notice clearly:

We do not accept that any of our sponsor provided content appears on pages that have dating, cam, or sex toy ads on the same page. Full size images and videos may appear on pages that promote our products only, or links to other pages on your own site.

Then take all your account staff, and start reviewing where your traffic is coming from and start issuing notices. Start warning webmasters, and after say September 1, start cutting off webmasters that cannot to accept to respect your rules.

Further, put pressure on other program overs to adapt the same sort of system. Stop allowing the dating and cam people to make money off of your content.

While you have their attention, get them to join in bulk DMCA notifications. Include the spsonrships and ad networks that appear on the sites in your notices, and make sure that you make it clear that you will go after any and all companies and force them to accept their responsiblities in profiteering from theft.

Double prong it. Like I said, punish the people who have no skin in the game.

[JMM]

AFF and Fling? You might want to pick up more than one lawyer.

This is part of the problem. People in this industry who don't know better (and again, I am not attacking you personally) think that those people are untouchable because they have money. They are not. Believe me. In addition, there are many claims that could be made in this kind of case in which, by statute, the prevailing party gets full reimbursement for their legal fees.

[JMM]

JMM, my suggestion is this: Your sites / program(s) need to post this notice clearly:

We do not accept that any of our sponsor provided content appears on pages that have dating, cam, or sex toy ads on the same page. Full size images and videos may appear on pages that promote our products only, or links to other pages on your own site.

Then take all your account staff, and start reviewing where your traffic is coming from and start issuing notices. Start warning webmasters, and after say September 1, start cutting off webmasters that cannot to accept to respect your rules.

Further, put pressure on other program overs to adapt the same sort of system. Stop allowing the dating and cam people to make money off of your content.

While you have their attention, get them to join in bulk DMCA notifications. Include the spsonrships and ad networks that appear on the sites in your notices, and make sure that you make it clear that you will go after any and all companies and force them to accept their responsiblities in profiteering from theft.

Double prong it. Like I said, punish the people who have no skin in the game.

This is an excellent idea. Listen up program owners, Alex knows what he is talking about.

For those paysite owners who do not understand how this all works, while you might lose a few sales in the short term, long term you will make it back 100 fold. In addition, your legitimate affiliates will see their numbers increase, which if they are smart, will mean more traffic and joins from them.

Long term, we all win.

[Mutt]

lawsuit - don't pick on a torrent site, that's a trickier argument than a site like Megarotic. Sites like Megarotic and all the Pornotube sites and YouTube for that matter hide behind the provision in the DMCA that they are a host and their only responsibility is to respect copyright infringement complaints and take content down. We all know that these sites' whole business plan is predicated on users uploading copyright infringing videos. Only a moron judge or jury wouldn't see that these sites are very well aware that 90% of the content on their sites doesn't belong to the uploader/user or them. But 100% of their revenues depends on this fact.

[EdgeXXX]

I've said on more than one occasion that what we need is an industry organization in order to fight this. The Movie Industry has MPAA, Music has RIAA, but the adult industry doesn't have a damn thing because most people are only worried about themselves and not the industry as a whole. I've already volunteered to spearhead this, as I have plenty of free time, but I can't do it alone. If anyone is actually serious about changing what's happening and not just bitching about it, let me know and I'll be happy to get the ball rolling...

[tony286]

If you read the last avn online,it is the 40 powerful people under 40 in our industry issue. At least three of these "industry leaders" advertise on BT and sites that give other people's content away for free. The industry will wake the fuck up when its too late. Where do you think kids get all their free porn from? I don't get crazy anymore. I have come to terms to the fact I work in a industry where 80% are short sighted scumbags.

[JMM]

lawsuit - don't pick on a torrent site, that's a trickier argument than a site like Megarotic. Sites like Megarotic and all the Pornotube sites and YouTube for that matter hide behind the provision in the DMCA that they are a host and their only responsibility is to respect copyright infringement complaints and take content down. We all know that these sites' whole business plan is predicated on users uploading copyright infringing videos. Only a moron judge or jury wouldn't see that these sites are very well aware that 90% of the content on their sites doesn't belong to the uploader/user or them. But 100% of their revenues depends on this fact.

Agreed.

I think prime target number one is GUBA. The reason I think GUBA would be the best target for victory, and a much easier victory, is that they charge money for access.

I would then think that a GUBA victory would be best parlayed into a megarotic suit.

Although, that would take too long. Maybe hit them both at the same time.

[RawAlex]

I've said on more than one occasion that what we need is an industry organization in order to fight this The Movie Industry has MPAA, Music has RIAA, but the adult industry doesn't have a damn thing because most people are only worried about themselves and not the industry as a whole. I've already volunteered to spearhead this, as I have plenty of free time, but I can't do it alone. If anyone is actually serious about changing what's happening and not just bitching about it, let me know and I'll be happy to get the ball rolling...

The problem has been that every time there is an "industry group" it ends up getting subverted and watered down until it is useless.

Think about it. Who's on Piratebay? AVN and Cams. The supposed industry leader and one of the largest sponsorship programs. If either of those two groups or any of their "bros" get into the game, the end result will be a stupid fucking dance around the maypole and nothing else.

[tenderobject]

would be nice if there a version of ascap for content thieves.....

[JMM]

The problem has been that every time there is an "industry group" it ends up getting subverted and watered down until it is useless.

Think about it. Who's on Piratebay? AVN and Cams. The supposed industry leader and one of the largest sponsorship programs. If either of those two groups or any of their "bros" get into the game, the end result will be a stupid fucking dance around the maypole and nothing else.

Then you don't let them in the game.

[Mutt]

Megarotic is based in Hong Kong - i hate GUBA but ya know it's an old technology/model the USENET decoder sites - i'd rather go after a Porn Tube type site cuz they are mushrooming like crazy and they are the in thing.

[tony286]

The problem has been that every time there is an "industry group" it ends up getting subverted and watered down until it is useless.

Think about it. Who's on Piratebay? AVN and Cams. The supposed industry leader and one of the largest sponsorship programs. If either of those two groups or any of their "bros" get into the game, the end result will be a stupid fucking dance around the maypole and nothing else.

The problem is we have very few leaders in our industry, Far-L comes to mind as one of the few putting his money where his mouth is.When others rolled over. Just because someone makes alot of money doesnt make them a leader.

[EdgeXXX]

The problem has been that every time there is an "industry group" it ends up getting subverted and watered down until it is useless.

Think about it. Who's on Piratebay? AVN and Cams. The supposed industry leader and one of the largest sponsorship programs. If either of those two groups or any of their "bros" get into the game, the end result will be a stupid fucking dance around the maypole and nothing else.

Bingo. That's were people like me come in. I have NO problem calling out and taking on the industry "leaders" that are actually mostly responsible for causing the problem and I don't buy into the bro-buddy bullshit. We need to be as concerned (if not more) with fighting them to change as we are with the Megarotics and BTs.

[Mutt]

what is the estimated cost of a lawsuit? could we find a good lawyer who would do it for a piece of the damages?

[EdgeXXX]

Then you don't let them in the game.

Exactly

They are only getting away with this shit because we allow them to.

[tony286]

You got a company like http://www.tnaflix.com/email.php they are going to start to sell memberships and right now its full of ads from "industry leaders"

[Mutt]

Megarotic has the balls to sell a Premium membership to the treasure trove of stolen content.

[JMM]

what is the estimated cost of a lawsuit? could we find a good lawyer who would do it for a piece of the damages?

Re: your post about Guba/old technology. Not true. I have already discussed GUBA with my lawyer and he is foaming at the mouth. I won't disclose why here, but GUBA does much more than simply decode usenet.

You will not find a lawyer who will do this on contingency. I have spoken with my lawyer already. He is a partner in the firm that worked on the RIAA suits (on behalf of the RIAA). He is also a friend. This isn't a fly by night firm either, it is one of the most respected firms on the west coast and they are anxious to work with us on this. I wish we could find a lawyer who would do it on contingency. Truth be told however that any lawyer that would, is probably not the caliber that we would want.

[tony286]

Re: your post about Guba/old technology. Not true. I have already discussed GUBA with my lawyer and he is foaming at the mouth. I won't disclose why here, but GUBA does much more than simply decode usenet.

You will not find a lawyer who will do this on contingency. I have spoken with my lawyer already. He is a partner in the firm that worked on the RIAA suits (on behalf of the RIAA). He is also a friend. This isn't a fly by night firm either, it is one of the most respected firms on the west coast and they are anxious to work with us on this. I wish we could find a lawyer who would do it on contingency. Truth be told however that any lawyer that would, is probably not the caliber that we would want.

To get your guy what would it cost a group if one was started?

[Mutt]

yeah that's what i was wondering - so get a ballpark cost of a suit so we know how much to ask people to contribute.

no program should be allowed to sidestep contributing to this - it's time the adult industry stepped up like the mainstream entertainment industry has and at least made an effort.

my feeling is that Congress is going to rewrite the DMCA but that's gonna be a long while I bet.

[JMM]

yeah that's what i was wondering - so get a ballpark cost of a suit so we know how much to ask people to contribute.

no program should be allowed to sidestep contributing to this - it's time the adult industry stepped up like the mainstream entertainment industry has and at least made an effort.

my feeling is that Congress is going to rewrite the DMCA but that's gonna be a long while I bet.

I will talk with him within the next few days and get an estimate.

The problem with congress is that they are always a few years at least behind the technology.

[EdgeXXX]

Ok, so here's a question: Which companies (in this industry) are capitalizing off of and supporting these sites the most?

I know AdultFriendFinder and Fleshlight are the two in the spotlight the most, but who else?

[EdgeXXX]

Hmmm, I guess nobody is bold enough to start naming names yet...

[JMM]

Ok, here is where we are at.

I already spoke with my attorney. I have a 30 minute conference call set up for Wednesday with their two biggest IP experts at the firm. Their firm is already litigating a few of these exact cases so there will be some cost savings there. On Wednesday, we are going to review some potential targets and then the firm is going to put together a strategy memo with some cost estimates.

I will be in touch.

Let's not let this die.

[RawAlex]

Let's see.

AVN / Adbrite

Party Poker

Ebay (they buy traffic through "auction ads".

http://www.btmon.com/Porn/Movies/Por...N.torrent.html

Fling

Porn sites owned by whoever owns straponstudio.com (whois privacy and no program info on their sites, but hosted at (gasp) National net

Etology (click seller)

http://www.demonoid.com/

Zango, and as a result anyone who buys traffic from zango.

[Mutt]

Ok, here is where we are at.

I already spoke with my attorney. I have a 30 minute conference call set up for Wednesday with their two biggest IP experts at the firm. Their firm is already litigating a few of these exact cases so there will be some cost savings there. On Wednesday, we are going to review some potential targets and then the firm is going to put together a strategy memo with some cost estimates.

I will be in touch.

Let's not let this die.

great - i will keep bumping this thread and passing the word along.

[EdgeXXX]

Let's see.

AVN / Adbrite

Party Poker

Ebay (they buy traffic through "auction ads".

http://www.btmon.com/Porn/Movies/Por...N.torrent.html

Fling

Porn sites owned by whoever owns straponstudio.com (whois privacy and no program info on their sites, but hosted at (gasp) National net

Etology (click seller)

http://www.demonoid.com/

Zango, and as a result anyone who buys traffic from zango.

Ok, good, so the tally of companies in our industry that are supporting this so far is:

AFF (including Cams.com, Streamray, and the rest of their network of sites)
Fleshlight
AVN (AdBright)
Fling
NastyDollars (same parent company as Fling)
BangBros (same parent company as Fling)
HugeTraffic (same parent company as Fling)


Who else?

[tranza]

United we stand, divided we fall.

How many times have you watched 300?

[tony286]

Ok, good, so the tally of companies in our industry that are supporting this so far is:

AFF (including Cams.com, Streamray, and the rest of their network of sites)
Fleshlight
AVN (AdBright)
Fling
NastyDollars (same parent company as Fling)
BangBros (same parent company as Fling)
HugeTraffic (same parent company as Fling)


Who else?

kink.com is all over tnaflix.

[JMM]

How many times have you watched 300?

Just once.

It was at the Alamo Draft House. For those of you that do not have movie theaters that serve dinner and have 60 different beers on tap with a waiter/waitress that continues to serve you until 15 minutes before the movie ends, you do not know what you are missing.

[EdgeXXX]

kink.com is all over tnaflix.

ok, so Kink.com (KinkyDollars) gets added to the list as well.

Just once.

It was at the Alamo Draft House. For those of you that do not have movie theaters that serve dinner and have 60 different beers on tap with a waiter/waitress that continues to serve you until 15 minutes before the movie ends, you do not know what you are missing.

I love Alamo Draft House (esp. the north one on Anderson Mill)

[JMM]

ok, so Kink.com (KinkyDollars) gets added to the list as well.







I love Alamo Draft House (esp. the north one on Anderson Mill)

Oh yeah..you live in Austin..I forgot..what part?

[EdgeXXX]

Oh yeah..you live in Austin..I forgot..what part?

Lakeway area

[Abbie]

As I mentioned in another thread, check out GAPA (GlobalAntiPiracy Dot Com).

[Mutt]

As I mentioned in another thread, check out GAPA (GlobalAntiPiracy Dot Com).

i'll check it out but it's time this industry itself, the people who shoot and own content fought back themselves as a group, hmm - doesn't matter if you shoot or own content, EVERYBODY should want to support this because it's for the good of all, except for the dating sites, cam sites and PPC companies like Adbrite/AVNAds who are making bank off these sites. And JMM seems ready to put this together. C&D's are a joke, they are like finding a thief walking out of your house with your TV set and you have to run after him down the street and politely ask him in the right way 'Pretty please will you give me my TV back?' 'Ok you're right, you can have it back, i'll just go into your neighbor's now and take his, cya'

[AcidMax]

This would definitely be a big step forward. I am sure we could work out a contribution if this goes through. Keep GFY updated and post your email for further contact.

[Pleasurepays]

This is part of the problem. People in this industry who don't know better (and again, I am not attacking you personally) think that those people are untouchable because they have money. They are not. Believe me. In addition, there are many claims that could be made in this kind of case in which, by statute, the prevailing party gets full reimbursement for their legal fees.

sadly, i think that the only way you can ever do something like this is to just start doing it, or find a small group of people and do it together to get the ball rolling... then people might start jumping on board when they see it can be done, can work, does work, will work etc.

otherwise, you are preaching to people who are usually by default, total shitheads who could really care less about anyone else, much less what happens in 2-3 months from today.

[AcidMax]

sadly, i think that the only way you can ever do something like this is to just start doing it, or find a small group of people and do it together to get the ball rolling... then people might start jumping on board when they see it can be done, can work, does work, will work etc.

otherwise, you are preaching to people who are usually by default, total shitheads who could really care less about anyone else, much less what happens in 2-3 months from today.

I don't think people are shitheads, its just that they want to see progress. So many people in this industry talk a big game then when it comes down to business they back out. If people were to see progress or at least something being started with genuine proof, the project would get backing. Coming here and talking about it is 1 thing, putting in the time and backing it up is something else.

Many people are involved with running their day to day operations and while working on something like this is beneficial it is not top-priority. If someone could make it top-priority and run with it, things could be different.

[EdgeXXX]

i'll check it out but it's time this industry itself, the people who shoot and own content fought back themselves as a group, hmm - doesn't matter if you shoot or own content, EVERYBODY should want to support this because it's for the good of all, except for the dating sites, cam sites and PPC companies like Adbrite/AVNAds who are making bank off these sites. And JMM seems ready to put this together. C&D's are a joke, they are like finding a thief walking out of your house with your TV set and you have to run after him down the street and politely ask him in the right way 'Pretty please will you give me my TV back?' 'Ok you're right, you can have it back, i'll just go into your neighbor's now and take his, cya'

Problem is that lawsuits aren't really going to do much at all for the problem at hand. Even if you succeed on take one out via a lawsuit, 3 more will pop up in it's place and at least one will be owned at least in part by the person whose site you just closed (because they are making money doing it). It would be like having cancer and thinking a band-aid will make it all better.

Your first target shouldn't be a lawsuit against some tube site or BT, it should be taking a stand against the backstabbing scumbags in this industry that are encouraging this by rewarding them monetarily. Until we all come together and demand that this be stopped, this trend will continue until it wipes most of the industry out...

[tony286]

Problem is that lawsuits aren't really going to do much at all for the problem at hand. Even if you succeed on take one out via a lawsuit, 3 more will pop up in it's place and at least one will be owned at least in part by the person whose site you just closed (because they are making money doing it). It would be like having cancer and thinking a band-aid will make it all better.

Your first target shouldn't be a lawsuit against some tube site or BT, it should be taking a stand against the backstabbing scumbags in this industry that are encouraging this by rewarding them monetarily. Until we all come together and demand that this be stopped, this trend will continue until it wipes most of the industry out...

your so right that will be the key.

[Pleasurepays]

I don't think people are shitheads, its just that they want to see progress. So many people in this industry talk a big game then when it comes down to business they back out. If people were to see progress or at least something being started with genuine proof, the project would get backing. Coming here and talking about it is 1 thing, putting in the time and backing it up is something else.

Many people are involved with running their day to day operations and while working on something like this is beneficial it is not top-priority. If someone could make it top-priority and run with it, things could be different.

yeah right. people dont give a shit about anyone but themselves and whether or not they can score any Bro Points.

why does someone need to have their hand held to have people stop ripping them off and stealing from them? in the normal world, it would take all of about 3 seconds for any normal business person to act. in online porn, its just expected and people have no problems partying with and sucking the cocks of the people that are robbing them.

[EdgeXXX]

If someone could make it top-priority and run with it, things could be different.

I've volunteered to do that on more than one occasion (even once already in this thread), but it always seems to fall on deaf ears. I have PLENTY of time to devote to this, but I cannot do it alone. Until I start seeing some volunteers willing to help out and get this going, it does me no good to even start a project like this...

[AcidMax]

yeah right. people dont give a shit about anyone but themselves and whether or not they can score any Bro Points.

why does someone need to have their hand held to have people stop ripping them off and stealing from them? in the normal world, it would take all of about 3 seconds for any normal business person to act. in online porn, its just expected and people have no problems partying with and sucking the cocks of the people that are robbing them.

I agree and I don't think about should let stuff like this slide. My point was simply that we are all busy and quite often let this stuff slide, not because we want it too, but because quite frankly we are busy people.

With this being said you can count on those of us at Randy Blue (http://www.randyblue.com) to back this 120%.

Feel free to email me at andy AT belator D O T com

[Rochard]

megarotic.com needs to be first!

[EdgeXXX]

Oh yeah, I forgot to add HornyMatches.com to the list...



AFF (including Cams.com, Streamray, and the rest of their network of sites)
Fleshlight
AVN (AdBright)
Fling
NastyDollars (same parent company as Fling)
BangBros (same parent company as Fling)
HugeTraffic (same parent company as Fling)
Kink.com (KinkyDollars)
HornyMatches.com