XXXJay... Regarding your Stats for HushMoney...

[D]

Hey, man...

I just got a chance to catch your thread: http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=770446

While those stats may represent the days that you've listed overall, I don't feel they represent what we got going on lately at HushMoney, so I had to take a closer look...

For the month of September, you're actually 1:740... and, if you weren't going revshare, but, instead were doing straight PPS (not that I think you're going wrong with choosing RevShare on our program _in the least_ - we both know you're making more than this in the long-run from retention), that'd put you at

$.05 per click...

...a fair jump from what your data suggests we're converting at in recent days.

I know you're just about putting up the raw data, and, of course, I don't want to suggest you're not contributing to the community in a positive way - because you certainly are, but when I realized what was going on, I felt I'd be amiss - and not doing my job - if I didn't point all this out.

Those new tours must be doing alright for ya.

So, with that in mind, maybe we could take it to the next step.

Just this last week, we've installed some new tools into our program: link clouds, model search, model-driven tours, dynamic RSS feeds, improvements on our cobranding interface, and a few things more...

Most of it's listed in our Ad Tools under "NEW" - or you can link directly from it in the news section of your home page.

I'm around if ya need me... on ICQ any time.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Sounds good

[PR_Sebas]

wow, xxxjay really does have alot of pull in the business... if a thread about his conversions gets a program to make a thread just for him...

good stuff jay...

and good stuff hush money for staying on top of this and realizing that he probably does influence alot of webmasters with this list, especially new webmasters.

[seeric]

the next time we sacrifice a hollywood starlet on the jacuzzi cutting board i will remind him to take a look at the new HM stuff yo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sublimed]

Hey, man...

I just got a chance to catch your thread: http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=770446

While those stats may represent the days that you've listed overall, I don't feel they represent what we got going on lately at HushMoney, so I had to take a closer look...

For the month of September, you're actually 1:740... and, if you weren't going revshare, but, instead were doing straight PPS (not that I think you're going wrong with choosing RevShare on our program _in the least_ - we both know you're making more than this in the long-run from retention), that'd put you at

$.05 per click...

...a fair jump from what your data suggests we're converting at in recent days.

I know you're just about putting up the raw data, and, of course, I don't want to suggest you're not contributing to the community in a positive way - because you certainly are, but when I realized what was going on, I felt I'd be amiss - and not doing my job - if I didn't point all this out.

Those new tours must be doing alright for ya.

So, with that in mind, maybe we could take it to the next step.

Just this last week, we've installed some new tools into our program: link clouds, model search, model-driven tours, dynamic RSS feeds, improvements on our cobranding interface, and a few things more...

Most of it's listed in our Ad Tools under "NEW" - or you can link directly from it in the news section of your home page.

I'm around if ya need me... on ICQ any time.

so since September things went from 1:8000 to 1:700...

[seeric]

In case you needed a visual D.

[xxxjay]

For the month of September, you're actually 1:740... and, if you weren't going revshare, but, instead were doing straight PPS (not that I think you're going wrong with choosing RevShare on our program _in the least_ - we both know you're making more than this in the long-run from retention), that'd put you at

I ran my stats 4/20/2007 - 9/20/2007 and no matter which way I try to look at it, here is my breakdwon:

40878 Raw In
32702 Uniques

I pulled the ratio from the uniques.

I had 4 signups and 9 rebills for a ratio 1:8176.

The primary problem I see with Hushmoney is you don't offer trilas. I know they are a drag and when we started occash years ago we tried to avoid them, but the fact is...as soon as we offered them our ration went from :1:2000 to 1:500...of course, we've cooled off a little since then but we stay around 1:750-900 consistantly with all traffic.

I don't think I send a lot of my traffic PPS because the only reason I would send a program PPS is if they paid on a trail. You guys have no trail, so it's not a true PPS to me in that respect.

I really love Hushmoney - the sites and the content are top notch, but I've found many bugs in the affilaite backend, the ratios have been bad, and there is the trial problem.

I haven't pulled my traffic yet, but I haven't added anymore either because of this.

If you guys get this stuff straighted out...I will be the first to jump back onboard. Until then I will just sit on the sidelines.

[D]

In case you needed a visual D.

[D]

so since September things went from 1:8000 to 1:700...

No. Including two-thirds of September, things went from 1:8000 in a 3-month block to 1:740 in the last 1/5 of that block when analyzed on its own merit.

That's leading me to assume it's the new tours that are doing the trick for Jay's traffic.

[Digipimp]

i feel left out, i deserve my own thread too

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

This is truly a great thread. One can learn from this.

[xxxjay]

No. Including two-thirds of September, things went from 1:8000 in a 3-month block to 1:740 in the last 1/5 of that block when analyzed on its own merit.

That's leading me to assume it's the new tours that are doing the trick for Jay's traffic.

If that is the case...awesome, but that isn't my point. The point of taking 5 months of data is to try to come up with a more fair picture of a trend, as instead of just a hot streak.

I had bad ratios for you guys on the last publishing as well.

Can you post some links to the changes you've mad in the tours in Sept (like a pre / post) so I can see what made the ratios 10x better?

[D]

I ran my stats 4/20/2007 - 9/20/2007 and no matter which way I try to look at it, here is my breakdwon:

40878 Raw In
32702 Uniques

I pulled the ratio from the uniques.

I had 4 signups and 9 rebills for a ratio 1:8176.

The primary problem I see with Hushmoney is you don't offer trilas. I know they are a drag and when we started occash years ago we tried to avoid them, but the fact is...as soon as we offered them our ration went from :1:2000 to 1:500...of course, we've cooled off a little since then but we stay around 1:750-900 consistantly with all traffic.

I don't think I send a lot of my traffic PPS because the only reason I would send a program PPS is if they paid on a trail. You guys have no trail, so it's not a true PPS to me in that respect.

I really love Hushmoney - the sites and the content are top notch, but I've found many bugs in the affiliate backend, the ratios have been bad, and there is the trial problem.

I haven't pulled my traffic yet, but I haven't added anymore either because of this.

If you guys get this stuff straighted out...I will be the first to jump back onboard. Until then I will just sit on the sidelines.

Yeah... the trials thing is something we talk about from time to time... and something we may offer in the future, but simply don't right now. I think Andrew's a fan of Yoda-philosophy... "Buy or Buy Not... there is no Trial"

As far as the bugs on the affiliate back-end goes, I thought we had worked out the last of those out by early March... and the last time you and I talked on the matter (couple months ago, give or take), had settled your concerns by pointing out that the reason your links didn't work after your session had expired is because they were session-based, and .jps's. That's the only concern with the back-end I remember you having.

If you've found something else (I'm still of the mind that we're rock-solid, and if can be shown where we're not, will have the matter fixed in a matter of an hour or two - if not minutes), let me know where the problems are in ICQ (or here? /shrug), and we'll get them taken care of, bro.

Thanks on that.

Aside from that, we do have all those new tools, so I'm here you have any questions implementing them - we already have a few affiliates designing whole new subsystems in their traffic queues while utilizing those new tools... and the pages are looking great... User-driven touring could lower anyone's conversion ratios, I'm sure... and that's what our new tools enable to a degree not seen before.

So hopefully we can take care of your past conversion problems in that manner, and address any other issue you might have.

I'm here as a resource for when needed.

[sublimed]

No. Including two-thirds of September, things went from 1:8000 in a 3-month block to 1:740 in the last 1/5 of that block when analyzed on its own merit.

That's leading me to assume it's the new tours that are doing the trick for Jay's traffic.

Ok. New tours must be the only answer as to why the conversion ratio has changed so drastically. I believe it honestly

[xxxjay]

Ok. New tours must be the only answer as to why the conversion ratio has changed so drastically. I believe it honestly

What sites did they change on? Can you even poist an archive.com / waybackmachine.com link or something?

As for the trials, I can gaurentee not having them is holding you back. I can't really keep sending your traffic at these ratios.

Could you set me up with some trial links? I'll promote it revshare. No problem. To make trials work, you need to do a couple different tricks with your members area to get them to convert to full. We do a few things to keep pushing the number up.

So there is a catch 22 there.

Also, it kind of deceptive to tell webmasters your are 30$ PPS with no trails. I know I switched or pulled many of my links as soon as I found this out.

Also, if you want my traffic and have a little time to put into getting it - try uploading some stuff to www.snizsshare.com and play with different linking schemes.

Let me know.

[D]

If that is the case...awesome, but that isn't my point. The point of taking 5 months of data is to try to come up with a more fair picture of a trend, as instead of just a hot streak.

I had bad ratios for you guys on the last publishing as well.

Can you post some links to the changes you've mad in the tours in Sept (like a pre / post) so I can see what made the ratios 10x better?

At your request, sure:

You can see the difference if you do this: delete your cookies to hushpass.com and t1-j1.hushpass.com.

then click on these links:

OLD:
http://hushpass.com/paysites/tours/hushpass/index.jsp

NEW:
http://t1-j1.hushpass.com/tours/hush.../noref_warning


Again, I'm only guessing that's what's doing it for you... it could also be the fact that we've moved our content to a windows media server as opposed to a standard file server in order to serve our media files more efficiently... or the fact that we've integrated Flash Video into our system and tours to a greater extent...

Whatever it is, things seem to be working better for you toward the end of the spectrum here (during the period that - and I'd like to encourage you to utilize our new tools a tad in order to make sure the trend only continues to get even better for you... and maybe once you see those numbers, you'll be convinced to send along more traffic - trial subscriptions or no.

That's our goal, at least.

[GITZINGER]

Also, it kind of deceptive to tell webmasters your are 30$ PPS with no trails.

Could you clarify this statement for us ignorant people, please? If they offer $30 PPS and you get a sale and they pay you $30, how is that deceptive?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

[D]

Also, it kind of deceptive to tell webmasters your are 30$ PPS with no trails. I know I switched or pulled many of my links as soon as I found this out.

Jay, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

PPS = Pay Per Sale.

I know I've heard you say "not a true PPS" because of the lack of a trial option, but my understanding is that a "trial" is not a prerequisite to a PPS system - in the online porn business, or any business.

Thanks.

[HouseHead]

top notch.. good things

[Digipimp]

this thread doesnt deliver, i wish alot of sponsors converted better

[xxxjay]

Jay, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

PPS = Pay Per Sale.

I know I've heard you say "not a true PPS" because of the lack of a trial option, but my understanding is that a "trial" is not a prerequisite to a PPS system - in the online porn business, or any business.

Thanks.

I think it is pretty standard for webmasters (or at least me) to assume that a 30$ PPS is on a trial. I would have never known unless I looked at your join form.

Am I alone in that?

[GITZINGER]

I think it is pretty standard for webmasters (or at least me) to assume that a 30$ PPS is on a trial. I would have never known unless I looked at your join form.

Am I alone in that?

Bueller.......Bueller.....anyone......anyone...... ..

[xxxjay]

Bueller.......Bueller.....anyone......anyone...... ..

??? - read it again retard:

I think it is pretty standard for webmasters (or at least me) to assume that a 30$ PPS is on a trial. I would have never known unless I looked at your join form.

Am I alone in that?

[GITZINGER]

??? - read it again retard:

I think it is pretty standard for webmasters (or at least me) to assume that a 30$ PPS is on a trial. I would have never known unless I looked at your join form.

Am I alone in that?

Um, Jay, you might wanna smoke somemore Chronic and watch Ferris Bueller's day off, they you'll understand that I was making a joke....

Who's the retard now?

[xxxjay]

Um, Jay, you might wanna smoke somemore Chronic and watch Ferris Bueller's day off, they you'll understand that I was making a joke....

Who's the retard now?

Fennis Bueler's day off? You are the retard for making such an obscure reference!

If you are gonna make a joke...make it funny!

[GITZINGER]

Fennis Bueler's day off? You are the retard for making such an obscure reference!

If you are gonna make a joke...make it funny!

Why? you're too stoned to get it in the first place...

[KrisKross]

I think it is pretty standard for webmasters (or at least me) to assume that a 30$ PPS is on a trial. I would have never known unless I looked at your join form.

Am I alone in that?

While it's usually the case, I've never made that assumption. PPS is exactly that, no conditions to it. A sale could be $1, $5, $30 or $100. Obviously, PPS on a trial is easier to convert, but trials aren't required to run a PPS program.

D, do you have promo content for the big butt sites? Or a user/pass? I'd like to give them a shot.

[KrisKross]

Fennis Bueler's day off? You are the retard for making such an obscure reference!

If you are gonna make a joke...make it funny!

It's hardly an obscure reference... Not funny in this case, but not obscure either.

[D]

D, do you have promo content for the big butt sites? Or a user/pass? I'd like to give them a shot.

Hitting you up ICQ now.

[xxxjay]

Why? you're too stoned to get it in the first place...

Yeah, dood...I'm too stoned, real stupid, I'll never make anything of myself.

Enough of these gay spinoff threads...this whole thead should have been here to start with:
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=770446

GITZINGER: Troll on brotha!

[Digipimp]

why are you such an angry brother jay?

[KrisKross]

Hitting you up ICQ now.

I don't use ICQ anymore. I'm emailing you now.

[Sly]

Jay, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

PPS = Pay Per Sale.

I know I've heard you say "not a true PPS" because of the lack of a trial option, but my understanding is that a "trial" is not a prerequisite to a PPS system - in the online porn business, or any business.

Thanks.

Maybe "technically speaking" you offer PPS, but every affiliate that I know always complains when they find out a "PPS sponsor" doesn't have trials. Most see it just as an easy way to claim offering PPS.

As an example because I don't know your exact price points... making $30 on a $24 member join versus making $30 on a $3 member join is a huge difference.

[xxxjay]

Most see it just as an easy way to claim offering PPS.

As an example because I don't know your exact price points... making $30 on a $24 member join versus making $30 on a $3 member join is a huge difference.

I agree with that 100%.

[xxxjay]

why are you such an angry brother jay?

It's rough on a black man. Hahaha

[Tempest]

While it's usually the case, I've never made that assumption. PPS is exactly that, no conditions to it. A sale could be $1, $5, $30 or $100. Obviously, PPS on a trial is easier to convert, but trials aren't required to run a PPS program.

I agree... I think that most people "assume" PPS has a trial is because the vast majority of sites don't convert as well on a full priced membership. So in order for all those crappy sites to make a sale, they have to offer trials.

Full priced memberships DO in fact convert if it's content the surfers want and the tour is good. For example, I have one site I'm making $35 PPS on that only has a $29.95/month price and it's converting at 1:674 all time. That's comparable to sites that have trials.

I don't give a shit if a site has a trial or not (unless it's revshare since I have to count on it rebilling to make me the real money) as long as it's conversion rates are decent. At the end of the day, that's all that matters. $$ per click.

[D]

I don't use ICQ anymore. I'm emailing you now.

k... expect a response first thing tomorrow morning PST. Thanks.

[Shaze]

??? - read it again retard:

I think it is pretty standard for webmasters (or at least me) to assume that a 30$ PPS is on a trial. I would have never known unless I looked at your join form.

Am I alone in that?

Jay,
I was a little confused also when you mentioned this. $30 PPS to me is a sale on either a trial or a regular sale. Some programs don't provide trial memberships. I guess what your issue is that you can convert better on a trial that pays $30 pps than on just a regular sale, and you consider true PPS programs as ones that offer a dollar amount on the trial sale only? I never really looked at it that way, and many other webmasters also because they are a little confused at what you were saying.

[xxxjay]

Full priced memberships DO in fact convert if it's content the surfers want and the tour is good. For example, I have one site I'm making $35 PPS on that only has a $29.95/month price and it's converting at 1:674 all time. That's comparable to sites that have trials.

I have found from 10 years of tinkering with the numbers on these things that even if a site is converting great without a trial, you can add in a trial and the signups will get on an average 4x better.

Yes, there are a lot of trial hoppers that don't want to join full, but will join again and again on trial. This is one of the big reasons we refuse to go PPS.

When someone joins one of our sites on a trial they have full access to the site they joined for 2 days before it converts to full. If they join on trial, if they want any of the other sites in the network it is an upgrade. By doing this we've brough our trial to full up about 12-13%.

One of the unexpected side effects of this is we saw WAY more people joining on full because they wanted everything and that is great.

To just say, "I don't do trials" is very short sighted and costs you sales. I've seen more than enough data to say that for certian.

I don't think doing a PPS on full joins only is a real PPS. That's just my

[Tempest]

I have found from 10 years of tinkering with the numbers on these things that even if a site is converting great without a trial, you can add in a trial and the signups will get on an average 4x better.

Yes, there are a lot of trial hoppers that don't want to join full, but will join again and again on trial. This is one of the big reasons we refuse to go PPS.

When someone joins one of our sites on a trial they have full access to the site they joined for 2 days before it converts to full. If they join on trial, if they want any of the other sites in the network it is an upgrade. By doing this we've brough our trial to full up about 12-13%.

One of the unexpected side effects of this is we saw WAY more people joining on full because they wanted everything and that is great.

To just say, "I don't do trials" is very short sighted and costs you sales. I've seen more than enough data to say that for certian.

I don't think doing a PPS on full joins only is a real PPS. That's just my

I hear what you're saying.. But from a purely affiliates point of view (i.e. I don't care about conversions from trials to full with a PPS program), whether a site has a trial or not doesn't matter. We've just been conditioned to assume that a site with a trial will convert better than one without which simply isn't true. We all have sites we promote that are 1:2,000+ on a $1 trial. I could send 4,000 to a full priced site and still end up making the same amount of money, actually more since you're typically only geting $20 - $25 on a $1 trial but $30-$35+ on a full priced trial. As you show with your stats, it's only $$ per click that matters.

[xxxjay]

I hear what you're saying.. But from a purely affiliates point of view (i.e. I don't care about conversions from trials to full with a PPS program), whether a site has a trial or not doesn't matter. We've just been conditioned to assume that a site with a trial will convert better than one without which simply isn't true. We all have sites we promote that are 1:2,000+ on a $1 trial. I could send 4,000 to a full priced site and still end up making the same amount of money, actually more since you're typically only geting $20 - $25 on a $1 trial but $30-$35+ on a full priced trial. As you show with your stats, it's only $$ per click that matters.

True...my whole point is if you have a site with no trial and add a trail it will convert better. There are a ton of other variables you can play with, including paying the webmaster a flat rate for a signup.

Just saying "I don't do trials" is just being lazy

[peterk]

In case you needed a visual D.

Ohhh man, fuck her don't kill

[Mutt]

True...my whole point is if you have a site with no trial and add a trail it will convert better. There are a ton of other variables you can play with, including paying the webmaster a flat rate for a signup.

Just saying "I don't do trials" is just being lazy

Why isn't your program offering a true PPS on a trial? Surely if you've perfected your trial to full conversions and have good retention you realized that you'd have more affiliates/traffic/sales/revenue like a Pimproll/Bangbros/Silvecash etc


i don't get it - you want another program to offer something that your own program doesn't.

[AGS-17]

porno killerr !))

[D]

If the word "deceptive" wasn't used, this wouldn't be such an issue with me...

But it was, and so it is.

I think I'm gonna make a poll outta this one to make it easier for people to give feedback one way or the other.

[pocketkangaroo]

D, while the new tours may have helped, I think it's entirely too small a sample size to make judgements on it. That 1:700 might just be a nice streak he is on. It might be the tours. I still find it hard to believe that simply changing the tour would make you convert 10 times better. Don't get me wrong, I've seen major improvements in tour changes, but that is a bit overboard.

[Ray@TastyDollars]

I have found from 10 years of tinkering with the numbers.....

10 year? Pfff, such a newb

[xxxjay]

Why isn't your program offering a true PPS on a trial? Surely if you've perfected your trial to full conversions and have good retention you realized that you'd have more affiliates/traffic/sales/revenue like a Pimproll/Bangbros/Silvecash etc


i don't get it - you want another program to offer something that your own program doesn't.

For us, it has to do with the deals we have stuctured with our content producers. If we went pay-per-sale they would lose money in the short term, but make more in the long term. Unfortuently, they are not internet savy and can't get that through their heads, so we have to keep things as they are. Otherwise, we'd do PPS on a trial no problem, but that isn't an option for us ATM.

Is that good enough for ya?

[xxxjay]

Ohhh man, fuck her don't kill

Someday I will do both.

[Snake Doctor]

Wow, I totally agree with xxxjay on this one.

Paying $30 PPS on a $30 join is a rip off IMHO.
If you don't offer trials you should be keeping members at least 3 months on average (probably more because hush has good unique content)
So on revshare the webmaster would make $45.

It would totally suck if a webmaster took the PPS option thinking there were trials and left all that money on the table.