Yep, I agree. I have found that members do not rebill long enough on a lower price point to justify using it over a traditional price point. Although the rebills may be less, over time, the traditional price point produces a greater ROI.

Robbie how are you paying $43 on a $200 sale?

That is not just processing fee surely?

Price points yay :)

This is the key question which is probably why it has been missed twice.

The right thing to do is to change all existing members to rebill at the new price, but that would mean taking what one would assume would be a massive hit on future rebills, and I would imagine it would not be easy for new sales to cover that, and so chances are that existing customers will only be switched if they find out/ask..... right?

then does that means if you raise your price all current members get bumped up to the new higher price?

Yep, I pay $6.44 on a "regular" membership of $29.99 and that's using my Humboldt merch account
$6.59 if it's CC Bill

So $43 is the amount of the biller fee on $200.

I think we may be one of the last of the old holdouts still using U.S.A. based Humboldt. I guess most people moved to other countries with their merch accounts so they are probably a few points cheaper.

I believe that for a HUGE name/band/program like porn.com this is a smart move because of their VOLUME VOLUME VOLUME.

But if you're not producing whatever volume numbers they are then it just makes the pie smaller. Forget about splits with models (like I do), or affiliates. For a smaller program like me I would go the OPPOSITE way if pressed to do so: make my monthly membership $39.95 instead of $29.95.

If I'm gonna be the last buggy whip salesman in town then I'm gonna damn well fucking sell SOLID GOLD buggy whips, dig?

I think you should recheck ccbill Robbie, that is about 22% fee.


I thought even their highest rates for US based businesses were under 15%.

Think of the money you will save switching to Zombaio @ 4.9%......

Only if you don't mind losing them. I hope you seriously don't think the two things are the same......

Price points won't matter until the cap gets put on the massive amounts of free content.

this pretty much assures them no affiliates (not sure if they have or want an affiliate program anyway).

Ultimately if they are a picture or video site... i can pay $10 or $30 or $0 .... $0 still wins hands down.


Here is my thoughts for the discussion.... If you want to offer something of value to a customer and change up the pricing points... then explain to me why its a good deal to charge me $10 initial AND $10 for rebills ?

I sign up, pay $10 and get access to tons of content lets say 10,000 videos. This is all *new* to me. I just paid $10 to access all of this, great deal. Now I browse through most or all of it in first 30 days, downloaded what i liked the best. Why do I rebill and pay full price again for another month, and another month after that etc... In month one I got access to 10,000 new videos. In month two you made a couple updates and i got to see a whole 20 new videos...

10,000 videos $10
20 videos $10

if all your site offers is pics and vids then why would someone continue to stay on after month one and pay full price just for a couple updates.

Perhaps for them a better pricing strategy would have been $30 first month, $10 each additional month (or even $5 for each rebill).

Now if you have lots of interaction on your site, live cams etc... then that justifies full price each month but just pics and vids you crazy to charge full price just for a couple updates.

discuss....

CCBill is 12%. $29.99 = 3.59

$200 @ 12% = $24

And for a merchant account you should be looking at around 5%.

You are either being ripped off or your math is wrong.

I have no axe to grind here, but there are quite a few interesting points in this thread, firstly to Robbie:

$43 on a $200 sale WOW.

That would cost me less than $12

$6.59 on a $29.99 again about $2 for me.

Sticking with your processor and not checking out whats available in the open market is costing you big time. I process with a major blue chip institution owned by one of the biggest banks in the world. Absolute 100% security on my money.
I pay 5.6% + 50c per transaction on my relatively modest turnover. Weekly payouts with no wire fee, and my merchant account has no upper limit on the transaction amount.


My second point is regarding micro payments and the perceived higher costs. The way to avoid this problem is by introducing a virtual wallet solution. You charge your customer a min of $10 which is converted into your virtual currency, he then spends the currency on whatever products you have, cams, video, dating etc. Fantastic for brands where you wish to cross-sell your customer to the other products and sites in your portfolio. The customer gets the micro-billing experience because each purchase is charged seperatley to his wallet.

You can also introduce a bonus system for those who are prepared in top up larger amounts e.g. top up $50 get $5 free.

Email promotions to your membership/email database such as "double your money" or "xmas special $5 free for every transaction" are easy to implement once you have your wallet system running.

Adding alternative billing mechanisms to your wallet is also easy. Lets say you want to add sms but you are scared of the percentages that the networks retain, you simply adjust the value of credits earned to reflect the payout you receive. The customer get the choice of payment mechanism, you retain your margin.



Finally to PR dave re porn.com TV. We produce live hardcore TV 24/7 with feeds available FOC to upstanding site owners such as yourself. Interactive TV quality free content which beats myfreecams om many levels including revenue generated.

If anyone has a serious enquiries about a TV feed for their site, or would like any advice on the other points my email is rampant 9 9 at g mail

are you seriously paying over 20% processing fees for creditcard? :helpme

I think some will use this type of move as a way to siphon off affiliate clicks and sustain themselves through unpaid cross sales and upsells.

1. Lower pricepoint to $9.95 (pay $5 to affiliate)
2. Add two prechecked cross sales up to $100. (nothing to affiliate)
3. Collect email addresses for further marketing. (nothing to affiliate)
4. Add heavy upsells within the members area. (nothing to affiliate)
5. Only have to pay affiliates $5.

I'm not saying Porn.com is doing this but only that the model could be used in this way. Currently it's popular with dating and cams. The affiliate sends you tons of free no-cc member leads and you don't have to actually pay the affiliate until those convert to a paid membership. So basically the affiliate is sending you free leads if you pay nothing on those leads directly.

People speak of having affiliates no longer being profitable but the reality is more that being an affiliate these days is much less appealing than in the past. There are more tricks and more instances where your cut is being taken from you. Entire businesses are now sustained basically by siphoning your traffic and paying you nothing or a small pittance.

they offer pps. don't know who would be stupid enough to still use revshare nowadays, and i would rather them to monetize their traffic in every way than be closed down next month.

any of these companies that do mega sites around that price point will be paying pps as no affiliate will promote it is some meager revshare. if they do it right it will be sustainable.

Yeah, PPS would not be near as bad. Lots of people still go revshare with a bad arrangement like the one spoken of unfortunately.

Robbie:

Please get in touch with me. I'd like to give you a competitive quote.

Mike
[email protected]

I suspect Robbie is not paying his gateway a transaction fee and instead a %.

If so that is why the fees are double what they should be.

This is why I love owning my own bank :pimp

I asked because if this is a long term move for porn.com then dropping everybody to 9.95 is the right thing to do. Dave's answering the other posts but continues to avoid this one. Pretty much answers it for him :)

The speculation in this thread doesn't make any sense. If Porn.com wasn't already making big money with the new pricing structure, they wouldn't be announcing it in a press release... what would they gain by doing that? The fact that they are coming out publicly with such a big move makes it very clear they already tested it and their bank statements are showing it to be a good move. There is no motive to be public about it otherwise.

Review sites have been offering discounted join pricing for a long time now on a lot of sites. In some cases it's a benefit because it costs a customer less than the type-in price, but in other instances it's a benefit simply because some sites are priced higher than they ought to be. The thing I'd be curious about is what impact having no trial would have on average income per conversion. I doubt many people would leave if they had a $9 purchase price without a $2 trial option and most trial buyers these days cancel minutes after signing up in my experience... but I'm sure Porn.com has the facts and figures to have done that analysis already as well. :2 cents:

You would think so, however, not everyone makes intelligent decisions all the time. Reading GFY for any amount of time demonstrates this all too well. There's also the possibility it's an "act of desperation" or publicity stunt.

Uh...how about the fact that they are publicizing the lower price in hopes of gaining more members? Dude, the reasoning for publicizing it is a no-brainer.

Also...just because you say some sites are "overpriced" doesn't make it true in any way at all. It's just your opinion.

In my opinion most porn sites are incredible deals.
Especially when compared with what it was like buying porn as recently as the mid 1990's and of course all the decades before that:

You had to sneak to an adult book store and hope nobody recognized your car...and that's IF the town you lived in even allowed an adult book store...and then you were paying 40 to 50 dollars for ONE video tape that you didn't even have a chance to preview and would have 4 or 5 scenes on it.

Now you can join most any site for less than one dollar a day and have access to tons of scenes...and you are able to preview before you buy with a nice tour. And of course all done from the comfort and privacy of your home.

I get annoyed reading people who are part of this business constantly saying that paysites suck. I'm old enough to realize just how good they are and how the internet changed everything.

Only because you are assuming that the majority of www.porn.com customers are rebilling at a rate higher then the "new" pricing :pimp There is no need to do anything with past members they are already enjoying the low prices.

Shap what do you think of these 2 sections:

http://www.porn.com/pornstars.html

and

http://www.porn.com/sites/MXM/Matrix-Models.html

I agree with all of this, but just want to point out that if an affiliate is only going to make $5 per a credit card sale then they aren't going to have many if any affiliates. Hell, I currently get paid $4 per a confirmed email account, you know how much easier that is to do then to get someone to take their credit card out and sign up?? Even at $10 a month vs $30 a month subscription cost, (for example) I will still likely convert say 1:500 to make $5. With same traffic I could convert 1:50 and get paid $4 . Do the math, which one is 100x more profitable for me.

If I get someone to take out their credit card to sign up I need to be paid at the very least $30 a sale or I (and 99% of affiliates) would lose money. I know sponsors seem to think that traffic falls out of the sky for free for affiliates but it doesn't. Most either spend a tremendous amount of time or money or both to generate traffic, $5 per a credit card sale is just sad and would never take off with affiliates.

If it were some company I'd never heard of I would share your cynicism... but in this case I'm inclined to believe it is working very well for two reasons.

Not all GFY posters and companies are the same. Few if any are as well-run and logically calculated as PIMPROLL / Porn.com. They don't 'just do things' or 'just say things' without already having the answers.

Also, I've been promoting Porn.com on my review sites at the $9 price for a long long time with excellent results. I'll know in a few months if the sales have come from being less expensive than the type-in price, or if they have been coming from having a lower price point in the current market than most other sites offer. My expectation is that sales will stay strong and other major brands will soon follow. :2 cents:

Excellent post. It mirrors my sentiments exactly. There's no way I'll send traffic which converts on average at 1:1,000 per $5 sale. That's just a waste to me. But I'll gladly send all that I can under a true honest PPFS program paying $1.50 per verified no-cc member (It should convert no worse than 1:50 on average in comparison).

It's my stats I watch, not my opinions. Several site owners allow you to choose your own price point or make arrangements for review sites to offer sites at lower price points. Doing so definitely impacts sales... on some sites much more than others. A site that suddenly sells much better than it used to because I changed a link code and offered a lower price IS overpriced... not because I say it is, but because customers make their thoughts known with their purchase decisions.

I also own my own paysite network. It's exclusive boutique content in niches that are not over-saturated. Currently I am pricing it at $29.00 per month with a $9.00 trial. When I raised the trial price to 9 dollars from 2.99, sales improved and average income per conversion went up dramatically as more buyers chose the monthly or long term join options. Your customers tell you what price your sites should be with their purchasing actions. My sites aren't in the same market as Porn.com, still based on their move I'll be trying lower monthly prices on my own sites at least temporarily to see how it does.

The press release was on "xbiz" how many potential customers vs porn site people read that ?? To do a press release in an adult industry publication would look more like they are trying to market to affiliates not customers.



A 21 year old, or even a 26 year doesn't know what it was like to buy porn in the mid 90s off line nor do they care. Just because you think it is a great deal now vs what it was 15 years ago, doesn't mean it is a good deal to everyone now.

You comparing your view of online porn today vs what you use to have to do to see porn 15 years ago would be like a 21 year old person today saying, I think those tube sites are great deals, I can't believe that people use to pay for porn a couple years ago. The tube sites are such a convenience and much better deal. You can go to a tube site and search tons of full length videos fast and easy, don't have to download anything to worry about viruses, the quality is good, don't have to enter in a credit card and worry about trying to figure out how to cancel, or getting banged 3x with cross sales, and best part it is 100% free.


I agree, you get a lot more bang for your buck now than what you did in 1995 but we are not in 1995. You should stop thinking that something is a good deal now vs what it was like in 1995 and instead look at if what you offer now is a good deal or not vs what is out there now, not was out there 15 years ago.

Mainly was done to piss of competitors.

Also where did we say we'd only be paying out $5 on these joins.

GFY = assumption city.

You guys all need to go back to work.

Cannot believe the ignorance of so many in this industry.

heh-heh :pimp

LOL Dave you are so defensive. I wasn't assuming anything. I'm in the midst of a potential price change myself and considering lowering the rebills for existing members that are at a higher monthly rate. That's why i'm asking.

I don't care why you did it. I was commenting on Robbie's post that it likely wasn't to try to pick up new customers like he thought.

Well if you offer revshare at 50% on a $9.95 join then it is $5. Maybe a few will rebill but most wont. BUT, I wasn't commenting on your post but someone else who was mentioning affiliate's getting paid on $5 sales, so I am talking in general that wouldn't work and why. Whether you do pay revshare $5 or not I don't care.

get back to work... mmm ok, nice one. :winkwink:

The pornstar page is nice. Nice and clean easy to navigate.

The matrix one is ok. Only thing that came to mind was why label it matrix when that brand has little value to end customer?

I tend to see things for what they really are. And porn sites online are really good. I'm not gonna suddenly say that just because tube and torrent sites are stealing everything and giving it away for free that a paysite suddenly is no good.

Nothing can be as "good" as FREE no matter what it is. It's only the devaluation by thieves that is makes these sites harder to sell. Not that they aren't a great value. Once the thieves are out of the way, paysites will once again be a tremendous value.

Less than a dollar a day. It's the deal of the century and is what made so many of us so much money. But as you know, once thieves started giving it all away for free...

correct me if I am wrong is but are you really paying over 20% in processing fees?
I guess some of that is your reserves too?

You should see me on Fridays.

Wait! Who pays $4 per email and converts 1:50? Thanks.

Let me throw my 2cents in here :)


In general , I have seen that hot content , advanced marketing strategies and tools is what makes more money for everyone involved.

Price is a great stimulus for a short term boost ( as mentioned by Adam above ) but then the novelty wears off and consumers don't buy more simply cause its cheaper especially in an industry where it is mainly impulse buying.

Agree?

right and it doesn't matter what you, or I, think is a good deal, it matters what the surfers and potential customers think is a good deal.

I don't have much dating traffic so don't do a huge volume with them but I make $4 per email join to dating gold and converted at an average of 1:35 last period.

If you say so. Problem is that NOTHING is as good a deal as FREE. So all I can do is hope that the current legal moves against piracy continue and get more power behind them.

Once that is done...then people will once again see that less than a dollar a day is a great deal. I spill more beer by accident at the strip club for God's sake. :1orglaugh

I just noticed that porn.com has a site called you.porn.com I wonder if "youporn" youporn.com was trademarked if they would have any problems. If i owned "tube.com" and made a subdomain called you.tube.com i bet they would sue me.

I'd love to know who pays $4 per email. Feel free to send me your referral link. I Would be glad to make to make the both of us more money. I'm getting paid $1.50 per email. That would be a nice increase :)

its not if I say so, it is common sense reality. It matters what your potential buyers think is a good deal deal not what you think is a good deal and you laugh at people who don't agree with you.

If you waiting for the laws to change then you will be going out of business.

How do you compete with "free"? You offer something that can not be given away for free. You need to offer a product, better experience, what ever you want to call it (i know "interaction" is now a taboo word here) that can not be stolen. Then you could use the pictures and videos to get exposure and drive traffic to your site where you up sell them on what they couldn't get for free anywhere else.

There is a lot more to it, and better for another thread.

more will76 bullshit.

perhaps what I call a "confirmed email join" is something different that what you guys are thinking. I refer to it being someone sign ups up with out putting in a credit card and using a valid email address which they confirm.

But regardless I mentioned it to illustrate a point of why no affiliates would market a program if they were only getting paid $5 a month / sale from a credit card join... as it is a lot easier to convert that at $4 vs getting someone to pull out a credit card (hope credit card works) and joins.

it's dating gold btw.

Repeat: The Pie Is Only So Big; Lowering Prices Hurts Everyone, Period. VOLUME cannot be the replacement for quality when SO MUCH PORN is available for free.

People panic and lower prices and it is a MISTAKE. Shap, if you lower your prices, even just on rebills, you will be hurting not only your own business long-term but also the Industry as a whole. BAD business practice peeps.

I'm at $27.95 and wouldn't be lowering more than 10%. We are just trying to find our ideal price point and I think as long as I'm over $19.95 my price changes won't hurt anyone.

why would you give them all the same price? if you buy something and a week later it goes on sale you don't get a rebate check in the mail from the seller.

if you're experimenting with a new lower price point and you realize it doesn't work then offering all your members the lower price can sink you pretty quick.