Among the programmers I have met and worked with I would have to say it is the opposite. The better ones do not have a degree in in CS. Of course I generally don't associate with incompetent people so I am probably not factoring in the tons of "PHP for dummies" types. So you may be right about the general population of programmers.

That being said, it's a shame there is not more emphasis on Computer Science (CS) among the non-college programmers. Many think that CS has nothing to do with programming but that simply is not the case. Maybe... if you consider installing Wordpress "programming". lol

I'm tired of hearing lame arguments over-emphasizing optimization in speed that sacrifices code readability and development speed from people who have never programmed in assembly, counted clock cycles, or don't know the difference between a logarithmic and exponential algorithm.

I am not a college graduate, and yet when talking to people who have a degree in CS it is frustrating and disappointing when they don't even understand basic CS concepts like Big-O notation and finite automata.

Also, one of the tests at a former company involved us putting an open-case computer in front of the job candidate and asking them to point to the hard drive. There were people with Master degrees in CS that couldn't do it.

In all honesty at your average university a BS in Computer Science is almost worthless. Many people will tell you that they already knew 90% of what was taught to them during their time at a university as an undergraduate before they set one foot in the classroom. For the most part we're talking very basic stuff. I remember some of the other students in my upper level undergraduate classes (including an AI course) being completely perplexed by basic things such as a DOS prompt (this was in the late 90's) or the Unix shell. Others yet were at the senior level and couldn't understand arrays.

I believe it.

Chicago is fucking cold...

this is true. chicago is not for everyone but neither is new york. chicago is a great city with a lot to offer. i'm a seasoned world traveler and i love a tropical climate, but i also need the energy and cultural diversity (food, music, theater, museums etc.) that chicago has and very few cities in the world can match.

Mr. Skin is far more than a website. We author and publish books, have radio and television deals (with more in the works), produce a successful radio prep service and are constantly pursuing new products to extend the Mr. Skin brand, hence the job posting.

Yes we pursue exceptional individuals and of course they are hard to find, but we've had success thus far and don't plan on compromising any time soon.

for some reason i still cant login. it redirects to login page after trying to login and submitting u/p.

Please try again. I think it should be active now.

but it's fucking cold... :Oh crap:Oh crap

My brother loves it out there, to bad he isn't a little further up the tech chain or I would recommend him for this... Time to train him up :thumbsup:thumbsup

Chicago is one of the great cities, give me Chicago over a vapid Phoenix or Tampa any time.

Four seasons - all beautiful and unique.

He's more than welcome to send over a resume. We may be hiring a more junior developer as well.

Ok, I have to ask...

Absolutely what good does having -B.S., M.S., or Ph.D. in Computer Science or equivalent matter when you're also looking for: Extraordinary talent and experience?

Does having the degree, in your mind, make one more qualified than infield experience accompanied with talent?

It's a job description wish list. If the right person applies and doesn't match every single point they will still be considered. We would like for the person to have one or more of those degrees, but nowhere does it say that you will not be considered if you don't. I get the feeling that a lot of people on this board have never actually applied for jobs before.

Job descriptions typically clearly state they are willing to substitute formal education for field experience, something you did not do. Also, education is a prereq for many companies, it isn't as if it is unheard of.

It says "What we are looking for", not "Requirements for consideration". And it means exactly that.

So, if you're going to be a smartass and go the literal route, let's play.

Define "qualified" and define "right person". Since you do not have a list of prereqs, how is one to know whether he is qualified.

From m-w:
qualified - having complied with the specific requirements or precedent conditions (as for an office or employment) :


So, again, tell me how one is to know whether or not he is qualified without a list of prereqs, instead a vague and all-encompassing wish list.

If you aren't interested or qualified, don't apply. Why are you so worried about our job posting?

How am I to know if I am qualified or not?

You do not have a list of prereqs to define if one is qualified or not, how did you not understand that with my last reply?

We'll gladly take a look at your resume if you send it over. If you don't have an idea if you are what we are looking for based on my post then I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just put up a Christmas tree and am listening to Christmas Blues station on Pandora.

According to you, "what we are looking for" is not "Requirements for consideration". Please help explain this to me. If I meet one of the things you "are looking for", does that make me qualified?

You were quick to play the semantics game but now you can't keep from putting your foot in your mouth. I'm just looking for an answer.

You aren't qualified

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

i gots ged.

when i start?

bump it up

Are u looking to hire from any country ??

current location doesn't matter, but relocation to chicago is a must. where are you by the way?