And this is why I put him on ignore. I like the guy but his trolling makes me say things I would not normally say to someone I like.

I am sure he could not care less.

Oh I don't disagree the system is fucked up, I just don't think your automobile comparison is a good one.

I have epilepsy and require health insurance or I pay $600 a month and that pretty much just covers medicine copays. I've paid out of pocket to give birth to my one son, thankful that Vegas has a program that caps the cost at $6k. And yet, I worked, the whole time.

If the roads are paved using MY tax dollars then why is it a privilege to drive? If I am forced to pay taxes then it is my RIGHT to drive on the roads paved using my tax dollars.. :2 cents:

Unfortunately, there is no mention anywhere of you having the right to use the things your tax dollars pay for. You don't have the right to use the White House, the Armed Forces or any number of things.

No mention was made of the right to drive on the roads. :(

I agree, but that just isn't how it goes.... what WC said ...

livin off the grid ain't so easy. :(

There is no truth to the notion that it's "already proven that costs will go UP under" health care reform. ONLY right wing partisans claim it. The non-partisan groups that've studied it long-term say it will bring costs DOWN. So, by preponderance of the available evidence, it's more likely that costs go down under "obamacare".

Yeah government people decide where our taxes are going, and we elect them.

A few years back my wife got a rash on her legs. we tried some anti rash over the counter cream and nothing. It got worse a few days later so we went to the ER. Spent 6 hours there. They took blood and the " Dr " told my wife it was just a simple rash and to take x antibiotic and to take X steroid. Both prescribed. Cost of the visit. 4k. Paid 500$ up front that day and would be billed the rest. He had not even waited on the blood results before he gave her the drugs to get. Needless to say we got the results and talked with another doctor who said the antibiotics wont do anything and get off the steroid before it made it worse. Turned out it was just a virus.

We went back to the hospital and told them to kiss our ass on the rest of the money. They needed to get Doctors that knew what the fuck they were doing before they got someone killed taking the wrong meds.

Weird, my monthly payments went up about $15 as soon as this was "enacted". Only the left wing partisans claim there will be either no change or everything will be cheaper.

50 sucky health insurance companies.

Why would you take your wife to the ER over a rash? Why did you pay $500 up front? Why would you assume that the second Doctor was correct and the first Doctor wasn't?

My experience tells me that if you go to three different Doctors with the same symptoms you will get three different opinions.

Since when is SEIU a right wing organization? What about all the other companies looking for exemptions because costs are going UP? :1orglaugh

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010...kers-children/

Nope not going up.

As a lefty who supports health insurance reform I applaud this decision, as it will bring the health insurance companies to their knees where they belong. The distinction between mandatory health insurance and auto insurance is you don?t have a right to drive. In exchange for the state granting you the privilege to drive you agree to buy the insurance. If you don?t want to buy the auto insurance don?t drive it is that simple.

i think you missed entirely what i was doing there.... :2 cents:




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another rocket scientist that failed to see what i was doing although it was pretty obvious...

even corky that retarded dude from tv would have figured out what i was doing.... :2 cents:





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:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

health insurance premiums go up every year for me...

quite trying to vendzilla (blame) all your problems on obama... :1orglaugh

btw, i switched carriers this year and my rates when down $100 a month..

so, thanks obama for lowering my healthcare as promised...... :thumbsup & :1orglaugh:1orglaugh






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My wife was just saying the same thing after watching a blip about it on the news.

To say that it's illegal for the Government to require us to do certain things is perfectly legal. For example, I must pay taxes, I must pay into Social Security, and I must have auto insurance. I also must have a business license.

So I don't see where this law is any different. I'm not saying I agree with the law or the requirement that we must have health insurance, but it's a perfectly legal requirement.

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

A for-profit system in charge of your healthcare is total bullshit!

@Demon and Amp

You are both right in regards to the insurance being different...

The insurance itself is different but the government forcing you to pay for one insurance or another is not different. It is exactly the same thing only more people agree with forcing you to pay for health insurance... The act of "forcing you to pay for insurance" is the same. I don't care what type of insurance it is, it's wrong to _force_ anyone to pay for anything that isn't damages being reconciled to someone you've wronged.

Phew, because I was thinking to myself "huh, I normally agree with him." =)

If the beginning and end of your position on Obama care is "does it increase costs on some businesses?" then there's really not much to say honestly.

Also, I think it was the congressional budget office who gave the long-term savings number back when it passed. Was not focussed like a laser on this or that segment, it was an overall prediction of how "we" spend now for what we get, and how "we" as a nation will spend under the reform, and what the savings were predicted to be.

Anyway, it's like the arizona immigration thing. Lawsuits are part of the process.

There are a lot of people that do think like that -glad you aren't one of them ...

BECCA! (sorry, had to)

Precisely, and more to the point, the idea of being legally obliged to purchase something from a for-profit entity is what this judge's ruling was all about.

If Obama Care included a public option the judge would, in all likelihood, have ruled differently.

If an uninsured driver slams into your car and causes damage, you wouldn't be very happy would you? Likely they were uninsured for a reason - they couldn't afford the insurance. I guess you're fucked, right?

Well, if you just had a stroke or a heart attack, and 5 uninsured people are in front of you at the ER because they couldn't afford healthcare, then guess who loses?

Under the Obama plan, even the poor will be provided with coverage, so they don't wind up in front of you in an emergency.

I personally don't think healthcare should be a privilege at all - it should be a fucking RIGHT in a civilized society, and it should just be another fucking deduction from everyone's paycheck, just like unemployment.

If you disagree, I hope you find yourself in a nice long ER line one day soon!

Do you even bother reading posts or do you enjoy embarrassing yourself with every subsequent post? Where did I blame anything on Obama? I love your defense mechanisms though.:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

That's what people don't get. The high cost of health care would be solved if you simply outlawed the practice of running health insurance companies on a for-profit basis.

No socialism required.

Your suggestion denotes your inability to understand how the world works, instead electing to live in dreamland.

Not if it was a government "regulated into not functioning properly" system like we have now, no...

But the government has already realized that they can introduce small amounts of regulation over a period of time in order to completely destroy what works about a free market. Once they've done that, they can get the majority on board for the government to step in and run things.

But the prerequisite is buying a car, which is completely optional. What is the prerequisite on forcing health care? Being alive?

You are missing the point... it has nothing to do with the type of insurance... at all. It's the very fact that you are being FORCED to buy insurance, period.

What right does anyone have, government included (actually specifically the government), to force you to buy ANYTHING?

There are many things the government does wrong - there are many things the government does right. I would happily accept a government-run system over the weasels and demons that run our healthcare now.

If it weren't for Obama's changes, then you couldn't even GET healthcare if you had a pre-existing condition, and even after paying and paying outrageous amounts into your healthcare, they were still able to drop you once you got sick.

I don't LOVE the Obama plan, but it is certainly a better plan than what preceded it. Still not nearly good enough, but to go back to how it was, is the equivalent of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

You fucking dick. That made me spit coke all over my monitor.

LOL, :thumbsup

What precedes the Obama plan is a health care system corrupted by our own government. I'll take just one example... The way health care is run now it is by FAR better to acquire your healthcare through your employer. This was made possible and preferred by pre-tax purchasing of healthcare. That's all fine and dandy and seems like a great idea but think of the ramifications. You change every health care insurance providers business plan. It's no longer about selling to the individual and about appealing to their needs and offering the best service to them. It's now about offering the best service and pricing to employers. That's the wrong direction and I believe it to be responsible for quite a bit of the issues now; it certainly hasn't helped the situation.

Talking about the pre-existing condition stuff... Nobody would really change their healthcare unless they were unhappy with them... OR and from my experience this is usually the case... you change employers. If healthcare wasn't so attached to employers and was instead attached to the individuals this wouldn't be the kind of problem it is now. Once again, facilitated by government intervention. On top of that forcing a company to accept a client that is going to cost them money is just ridiculous... What if the government told you you had to accept clients that were going to cost your company $250k? Do you think that's fair? The legislation forcing health care providers to pick up people with known conditions only raises your own rates... the money has to come from SOME place.

Also...

What is wrong with for profit companies? They keep this world turning more than any government does...

The food industry is vital to your health and while the content of the food is regulated and monitored the food industry itself is not NEARLY as regulated as the health care system.

I don't see people complaining about their choices of food... even the quality of food is very rarely called into question... and that's only natural considering just how much food is consumed on a daily basis.

There are more complaints with heavily regulated industries than industries with little to no regulation.

why bother reading..

your posts are all the same..

i think you might be retarded because you continue to think i am sticking up for obama when i have stated hundreds of times that he is just more status quo..

however, in this people are agreeing that people should not be forced to buy health insurance and although i agree with that since it seems to be written to line the pockets of the health care insurance companies, i will always feel that americans deserve the right to affordable health care..

did you notice how i said affordable healthcare.. to me that means that everyone should have the right to be able to afford healthcare even if that means that we have to give it to some people for free..

the healthcare bill that was finally passed was 180 degrees from what was the original intent. once again big corporations figured out a way to make this benefit themselves and not the people...

any questions?




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Ok I completely disagree with you but I'd like to say that this is a brilliant post. By specifying that you believe that everyone has the right to affordable health care you have exactly stated what you believe.

I personally don't believe that anyone has the RIGHT to ANYTHING they can't afford.

If you want affordable healthcare you aren't going to get it by forcing the people with the money to pay for the people without the money... that only drives costs UP. As the system has to support everyone, regardless of the fact that they can afford it or not. It's not free! Everyone else has to bare the cost.

Additionally, you've already made your choice between utopia and freedom. You've chosen utopia. You have an ideal that you would like to accomplish and you are willing to force everyone into participating in your ideal via taxation.

I can't and won't tell you that your opinion is wrong as it's an opinion... I will however say that the idea of forcing anyone to do anything else against their will... is wrong. At least in my book, hahaha.

EDIT:

When I read:

"...even if that means that we have to give it to some people for free.."

I translate to a much more accurate statement; "....even if that means that we have to force some people into slavery (working for someone else's benefit for no compensation)"

I don't have time to go tit-for-tat with everything you have stated here, but on a few points, your position is conflicting. For example, the need for healthcare to be provided to EVERYONE regardless of pre-existing conditions, IS PRECISELY what the Obama compromise was all about. In order to prevent the cost of the few, causing catastrophic rate hikes for everyone, is precisely WHY this plan requires EVERYONE to buy into the system, so the burden is shared overall.

Also, your contention that healthcare MUST be provided through your employer, is no longer such a big deal under Obama's plan, where INDIVIDUALS are required to procure their own coverage, provided their employer does not, or if they prefer to go it alone.

The Obama plan actually makes your coverage "portable" as well, just so you are NOT totally beholden to your employer.

And before we get into the government doing a great job regulating our food supply, I have just one word for you: Monsanto.

It fails check 1... Forcing people to do something against their will. Everything else is moot. Regardless of how good it sounds, regardless of what the cost is, it's still wrong. It could be the best healthcare system in the world but forcing everyone to participate against their will... is wrong. Period.

"requires EVERYONE to buy into the system, so the burden is shared overall." That's called socialism... I'm a Libertarian, there's a few conflicts there, hahah.

I also call that slavery... forcing someone to work for the benefit of someone else without compensation.