Watch the first 15 minutes of the Murray Rothbard video i posted....

also a good read on human cooperation: http://mises.org/daily/4317

What else could it be? you pay another person or organization and they deliver something in return....

If you don't like the terms of the contract, don't sign one. if you don't like the product, don't buy it.

The current limited choice of ISP in certain parts of the world is a direct result of State intervention in the economy. More State intervention won't solve that problem... It will only create more problems.

Every couple of years a politician launches the idea to ban porn... Every time they are unsuccessful because they don't have enough power over the internet. Do you really want to give politicians more power over the internet, knowing that it's only a matter of time before another anti-porn freak gets a hold of that new position of power?

True, it's only laws that keep most of us in business. Remove the laws protecting us and we're first to get fucked.

You really don't think very deep into things. You were screaming the Internet shouldn't be subject to laws. Now you're supporting the laws that keep it free for you to make a living on.

Think of the laws on monopoly and creating price cartels. They stop companies banding together to decide what you will pay, not just competition. What stops a company like Microsoft buying all the ISPSs? Yes laws.

Companies that control a market would never listen to a consumer. He buys or he goes without. At least every 4 years you get some say. Guaranteed by law. :winkwink:

There is a difference between government and business, government should not be in it for anything but the advancement of the nation, a business is in it for the advancement of the business. So just because the government is behind getting it started, doesn't mean it should run it.

The government is already has laws in place for business, giving them a foot hold in the internet would be double dipping for the internet business

pretty much.

I'm supporting laws? I only support the non-aggression principle. I support human cooperation an creativity, I support voluntary association, I support the free market.

It seems you should take a better look at history... State intervention is what enabled cartels and monopolies. Take a look at the first 15 minutes of the Rothbard video I posted, he explains things quit well.

Who lobbied for the first preservation laws? Who lobbied for the State to create big national parks? The railway companies. Why? Because by having the State create big parks in strategic places they were able to prevent the competition from building their own transcontinental railroads that would compete with their own.

Who lobbied for banking regulations? The big banks. Why? because that way they were able to harass their small competitors. Rockefeller went even so far as calling "competition a sin".

Big corporations don't like the free market, they don't like competition. They like State intervention because they know they can control the decision making process. They fund both sides in the elections. They don't care who wins or looses an election. In the end politicians always do what is good for the big corporations.

If you really believe that the fact that the state organizes elections every 4 years gives you one bit of power, then you are very far down the road Hayek talked about.

i'll just leave it at this. there is a reason why not a single telco has come out and said, we believe in an open internet. what they want to do will only work if they all band together. they know this. the idea of some start up building its own network sounds good in theory but is far from practical. they could never compete with the prices regardless.

I'll try one more time to get you to watch the Rothbard video... he gives you a good idea of how regulations come to be.

The people that make the regulations don't come falling out of the air. They usually have a been working in the very industry they are now trying to regulate and they often later return to that industry.

Big corporations love regulations... of course they pretend to the public that they don't... but in the end the realize that they will always benefit from state regulations... why? because the big corporations make the rules.

The idea of more gov regs, for sure if the fcc controls any part of it - just sucks. But the reason this law is happening is because the abuse is already happening!

The Internet is not an open free market - it's a multitude of markets that are HIGHLY regulated based on the regions they are located in. It's already packed with Regs (from local, state and fed), all around the world, unique to industries, even in America.

This could be a good or bad thing for our Industry - bad of the fcc douches it up - good if it happens as it should and ISP's can't charge the guy more / cut off him because one guy likes to download legal porn at all hours of the night.


P.S. The reason the phone companies are regulated is because they abused the powers they had, greatly - 20 years before any State/Fed stepped in. Every major phone company in America has already been classified as a monopoly, they abused powers they had like a teenage girl abuses text messaging - it never stops.

So are you saying we charge far too much for a product many consumers don't want to buy?

What you support is irrelevant. Because if the person next to you doesn't support it you get squashed.

So you can see clearly the intentions of these big companies and yet you want the only thing stopping them removed. The system will always be manipulated by the strongest. Give all the power to the strongest without limits and you're in trouble.

You have 3 options. Let Government make the rules that you get small chance to change every year.

Let big companies make the rules that you get no chance to change ever.

Go live on a desert island and pray no one finds you.

Ferrari still sells cars even though they are very expensive. Would Ferrari sell more cars if they lowered their prices? Probably. Does that mean Ferrari should lower their prices? No, that's up to Ferrari to decide. They decide what profit margin they are happy with. They decide if they are happy with the volume they are currently selling and if they want to lower their margins to increase their sales.

The law of supply and demand at a certain price.
...Economics 101

So, what you support is the law of the jungle? where the strong are allowed to crush the weak...

Like I said, It's naive to think that state intervention stops big corporations from doing bad things. State intervention is what enables big corporations to do bad things. state intervention creates and maintains monopolies. State intervention creates cartels.

Let's take a look at patents for example. Many people seem to think that patents protect your ideas and encourage innovation. However, patents don't protect idea's. What a patent does is give you the right to use the State to stop another person or company from using a technique that you patented.

Let's say Paul A owns a small company and has been selling a certain product for many many years. Paul A developed a special technique to produce his products and to keep his competitive edge he kept that special technique a secret. Years later, Paul B invents a technique that is very similar to the one Paul A has been using for many years. Paul B pays the state to patent 'his invention'. Paul B now has the power to stop Paul A from using the technique he has been using for many years, a technique Paul A invented himself.

Now let's say Paul C invented another technique and kept it a secret. Corporation D invents a similar technique and patents it. Corporation D now has the power to put Paul C out of business.

Corporation E comes a long and wants to use the technique Corporation D patented. No problem, Corporation E will just use that technique and if Corporation D sues Corporation E then Corporation E will just sue Corporation D for using some other technique that E patented and D is using. In the end D and E will just crosslicense and continue doing business.

The end result: Big Corporation that spend millions of dollars on large patent arsenals are able to prevent small companies that don't have large patent arsenals from entering the market.

And still patents are being promoted as a way to encourage innovation and to help small companies.

There usually is a big difference between what laws and regulations are really intended for and what politicians claim they are intended for.

I guess you didn't learn that in an economics University. The reason Ferrari cost more to buy is, they cost a lot more to make and better than the cheaper alternatives. Status symbol comes into it partly. Equating a Ferrri with porn is stupid. When was the last time you saw someone browsing a Playboy movie in public and thought he was a cool dude?


No I know without laws to protect us it would be the law of the jungle. Your beliefs would result in laws of the jungle. Because in the real world it takes one person to not sign up to make it so.

So your solution is to remove all protection???? :upsidedow

Go find your desert island because you're clearly not suited for the real world. You believe because the system doesn't work perfectly to your liking you think it should all be changed. So there is no workable system.

Of course if I invent patent A someone can invent patent B and take it further or change it in some way. That's been the way of science through the ages. Most inventions today come from people taking one mans ideas and developing them into another use.

You see what big corporations will do and think it's wrong. So come up with a workable logical solution. We can all point to the problems. Point is to the solutions that work.

*sigh* The basic concepts that apply to Ferrari, also apply to playboy and to the shoemakers and to the bakers and to the butchers and to prostitutes and to designers and to blacksmiths and to those making microprocessors and to....

A big gang of thugs forcing their rules onto people = law of the jungle.

Your solution to problems caused by large gangs of thugs is to give power to an even bigger gang of thugs.

Btw: It seems you have no idea what patents are and how they work and where they came from and how the concept evolved.

U-Bob give me solutions. We know the problems. We need solutions. So give them to us.