WHAT?
NO
In the age of entitlement, we don't get our own home?
Who do I need to talk to, since health insurance is now a right, haha.
Ok a forced right..

health CARE should be available to everyone.
health INSURANCE should be abolished. (in it's current form).

but yeah.... the age of (perceived) entitlement is done.

the police state is here, now.

"pre-existing conditions" kinda by definition implies not healthy? and not healthy means a loss for insurance companies... even if it's 10% cap, someone will have to get squeezed out, insurance terms could become less favorable, doctors could make less, etc

So the fact is everyone will indirectly have to pay for those that are less healthy, poorer, etc... so I and everyone else in pretty good health and financial position will be worse off...

whether that's actually a good thing or not is a completely different topic, that should probably be left to philosophers and academics...

We are rushing towards the very future that has been portrayed in the movie "Idiocracy" right now.



https://youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk

what are they supposed to do when there are too many people to the number of jobs out there?

Fear and Lies? How about the speaker of the house saying shit like

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

And yes I know Reagan had the idea of the healthcare reform, other presidents wanted it to, but it was told to them it wouldn't work, that didn't stop Obama, he wanted to pass it anyways.

I'm for healthcare reform, but for one that works, I don't think a 2300 page law will work

You are TOTALLY mistaken. :2 cents:

You guys get fucked so hard on a daily basis it's a wonder you haven't revolted. Like $18k a year for health insurance? Really?

No kidding! A REAL revolution is required - not some half-assed corporate funded tea bagger bullshit movement... the real fucking thing!

Please tell me what parts of the bill you do not agree with below....





Young adults (including stepchildren and adopted children) can be covered under their parents' insurance plans until the age of 26. They do not have to live with or be financially dependent on their parents to be eligible for coverage.

Health insurance companies can no longer refuse to provide coverage to children with pre-existing medical conditions.

Health insurers can no longer deny coverage when a person becomes ill.

Lifetime limits and restrictive annual limits on health insurance coverage are prohibited.

New insurance plans must provide coverage for preventative health services without co-pays.

Co-payments and deductibles for preventative care visits will be eliminated and personalized prevention plans provided under Medicare.

New plans must include an appeals process for addressing coverage determination and claims issues.

The income threshold for income-related Medicare Part B premiums is frozen at 2010 levels.

The Medicare Part D premium subsidy for those with incomes above $85,000/individual and $170,000/couple is reduced.

Health insurers are required to spend more of premium payments on health care and less on administrative costs and profits (80% in individual market plans/85% in large market plans)

Health insurance providers are required to provide justification for premium increases to the states in which they provide coverage. Failure to do so will result in their exclusion from health insurance exchanges.

A national, voluntary long-term care insurance program will be created. Individuals who pay premiums into this new plan for at least five years will then be eligible to receive daily living assistance support.

There are new limits on out-of-pocket expenses, which can not exceed $5,000 for individual coverage or $10,000 for family coverage.

Emergency services provided by in-network and out-of-network services must be covered at the same level and must not be subject to pre-authorization rules.

Seniors will receive a $250 rebate to help offset the gap in Medicare prescription drug covered, known as the "doughnut hole", between the initial limit in coverage and the point at which catastrophic coverage is available.

Several recent articles have reported that most employees can expect to pay more for the health insurance premiums beginning in 2011, due in part to the increase in insurance costs brought about by the law.

Health care reform changes affecting taxes

The penalty for nonqualified distributions from health savings plans doubles, to 20%.
Over-the-counter medications can no longer be paid for with funds from health reimbursement accounts and flexible spending accounts. In order to be covered, a prescription is required.

The tax on distributions from a health savings account or an Archer MSA that are not used for qualified medical expenses increases to 20%.

The new law mandates that employee W-2 forms include the value of health care benefits provided, regardless of whether those benefits are paid by the employee, the employer, or a both. Those benefits will not be taxed in 2011.

The maximum adoption credit increases to $13,170 per child. In addition, the credit is refundable, meaning that eligible taxpayers can get receive the credit even if they don't owe taxes for the year.







.

Yeah, I liked that movie...explains half the threads on this board:thumbsup

That was the movie I meant to recommend to TheDoc. Thanks

Your solution is?

More people paying into the pool, provides lower costs for those conditions. If everyone with Epilepsy, MS, etc could get the medications/chairs, etc, all of the crap would be cheaper. Getting people in with this conditions, sooner... brings the cost way down - preventive medicine/care is one of the best ways to lower healthcare costs.

If "everyone" was paying in - you would be paying less. Just like on average, you pay more for Insurance right now and care... than the average Canadian does in taxes or any nation with a solid social medical system.

Yes, fear and lies... mountains of crap spewing in every direction from almost every single right wing/republican. A few to point out appear in this thread, ie: rates going up because of Obama's plan is B.S. or let's say the death panels that was talked about all over the media and even gfy - which is complete bullshit, fear and lies. And that's just a fraction of what was spewed.

You have no idea if this healthcare reform bill will work... you wont let it work - and most of the right wont work with it to make it better... and that's pathetic.

It will take 1000's of pages to change an entire Industry that has 1000's of various factors to it and 1000's of related Companies, before you hit the 100k+ small business in America, and it correctly cover 300 million various Americans. You damn sure aren't getting it done in a few simple pages.

horseshit.

Show me one other system that operates like that. You can't because one does not exist. The simple fact is, the more people paying into a system, the more profits are reaped, not lower costs. More and more people are on pharma drugs today than ever before, yet my costs don't go down. More and more people are connected to high speed Comcast every day.... why aren't my costs going down? More and more people are born (population growth) and buying food every day, why aren't my costs decreasing?

show me ONE fucking thing that has DECREASED in price. Anything.

horseshit. :2 cents:

Canada... I lived, worked, paid taxes and used the Canadian Medical System - it was slick shit.

My BW bill is probably 10,000% cheaper today than it was 10 years ago. Not a single person in this forum that has been doing this for any number of years that hasn't seen a major decrease.

And my long distance is about $5k-$10k cheaper a month now. The same PC I have today is about $1000 less to build today than it was 3 years ago.

Some meds, etc are greatly cheaper today than 10 years ago. They normally get cheaper once they've made the investment back - and more and more are costing more to research, etc - thus costing us more, longer.

Your food costs go up for a large number of reasons... gas being one major reason. It costs less to mass produce food today, but it costs us more to get it to us than ever before.

Well, to play devil's advocate, I would say almost EVERY product gets cheaper once more people buy into it. How much did a mobile phone cost when they first came out, or how about a large flat screen TV?

How much did it used to cost for the most basic phone or internet plan early on?

Like the Doc stated earlier - the more people in a pool, paying towards a common good, could reduce costs.

Unfortunately it is all in the management. Half the country does not believe a "for-profit" healthcare system really has our best interests in mind, and the other half does not believe the government would manage healthcare properly either.

Both sides are probably correct.

Thanks obama... Mine went up $1200 for the year for me and the wife... But he said the rates would go down.. Maybe he needs to "go down" on something...

20% here...

To be honest, I talked to a couple doctors I know and got my opinion from them.

That and I want to know where it says it can save money and insure 30 million new people?

And Virginia has also ruled that part of it is unconstitutional
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121302420.html

Very true...

All I know is we have to do something and sitting around and doing nothing, damn sure wasn't working... So if Obama pissing off a group of people gets the ball moving, in any direction other than the dead direction it was it in, it earns a Bravo from me.

From 2000 to 2006, overall inflation increased 3.5%, wages increased 3.8%, and health care premiums increased 87%. Source: Kaiser Family Foundation

Obama is to blame, seriously?

This is the type of shit... that is talked about above. Lies and false information that is heavily repeated - it's so lame.

It was well known in advance, that these rate increases were coming. The various rate increases has been a hot subject for several years now. This isn't the first major rate increase, but it is the first that some confused Americans blame on a President.

Some physicians are for it, but you can't expect doctors who face stricter capitation rules, especially under Medicare, to have nice things to say about the new law. How can they be expected to pay the loan on that new $75,000 BMW?

My doctor recently charged me another office visit just so she could tell me the results of some lab tests that were part of the previous office visit (results that were non-critical and could easily have been left on my answering machine). Needless to say, she's not going to be my doctor for much longer.

With cash-minded doctors like that, no wonder so many of them aren't liking the new system.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

well there are going to be a record amount of people retiring in the next 10 years. i hope that will help some but no doubt the people who replace the people leaving will get fucked..no benefits, part time, etc.

I don't have a solution but while there are a number of lazy shits out there, there are also a good number of people who really want to work but there is nothing out there. lower paying jobs won't even hire these people half of the time because they are 'over qualified' and assume they won't stick around.

right.. just like a lot of people form their opinions based on what they hear in the media..

so, you do not dispute that all the things in my post that start in 2011 are good things?

did you ever stop to think that maybe the republicans dont want healthcare reform is maybe because they make a lot more money when there is no govt regulation?

again,this is my problem with the entire debate.. people dont do any fact finding for themselves.. its the american way, laziness....

anyway, your post shows that you are in the mix of the uneducated populous that gets all their information from the media and from uniformed dr.s that are pissed because they will get less money and instead of blaming the govt they should be blaming the insurance companies that lobbied so hard to get this bill written the way they wanted it...







.





.

If you don't go to the doctor often a high deductible, lower prem may be the way for you go go. FOR EXAMPLE.

Say you paying $1800 a month right now with no deductible, if you changed to a $5,000 deductible and lowered your prem to $1400 a month . You take the extra $400 a month and send it to your own health savings account. After 1 year you have enough saved there if you do have to max your deductible you pay it from your HSA. The 5K or so you put into the HSA is tax deductible so you pay less in income taxes at the end of the year. If you don't go to the doctor for a couple years (which sounds like your case) then you can build up a lot of money in your HSA, so instead of paying the insurance and not using it (losing that money) you get to retain the money and get more tax deductions.

I have a very high deductible plan.
And it just went up another 37% starting in February. :helpme

Nothing to do with Obama.
Everything to do with the bloated, inefficient, crooked health insurance system he had pledged to work on reforming.

Moral of the story: huge industries with highly-paid lobbyists win, every time.

Doctors aren't making as much money as you think they are making
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...doctors/salary

I think that it's funny that Lawyers are making laws to control the Doctors

You mean there is nothing out there that they are willing to accept. Or they don't have enough incentive to go out and create your own work.

If you have major health problems and costs in your family (as I do), it may also be the way for you to go.

Three years ago, we switched from conventional to high-deductible. We saved almost $1000 a month in premiums and after paying all of our medical bills out of pocket for about 45 days, we had almost *no* out of pocket costs for the rest of the year. I estimated it saved us about $15-$20K that year.

Three years later, they've boosted the premiums, cut the benefits and increased the deductible to the point where our savings will probably only be around $5K this year. Still worth it, though.

You're calling doctors uneducated? Thats where I got my opinion from!

So tell me, how is insuring 30 million new people going to save money, that's what this is all about right?
As in your own words, educate me, how can they do that when the unions are getting waivers with their cadillac plans and states are challenging the constitutionality of the new law? Those were two ways of getting money for the new healthcare reform, then there is what they are doing to medicare, LOL, even AARP got a waiver

The tax deduction is a big plus most people don't know about or forget as well.

The pool of people they cover has greatly reduced in the last 20 years and your costs have been going up all along, a shit ton. So I wouldn't laugh it up too much.

Wouldn't this be the same with all the different insurance companies and competing against each other?

More people paying in? I think there is only 30 Million not covered...

Medicaid recipients can visit the ER anytime at zero cost (practically an incentive to use it), and hence for many of them the ER is, in effect, their primary physician.

However, for people with no insurance, but owning assets, trying to get a free ride at the ER will often work out badly and be a very costly ordeal...

Firstly, those without insurance will often be at charged upwards of 3 TIMES more than an insurance company would be for the same services.

Secondly, to make matters worse, hospitals and doctors are very aggressive at collecting debt.

Bottom line is for many people who earn an above poverty-level income and own assets the ER is going to cost them; no free ride.

As for self-insuring / paying cash ... many people paying cash think getting 10% or 20% is great when in reality they're still getting deeply gouged ... any discount less than 50% off is too much; insurance companies often pay around 1/3 the "cash" price.

Ron

I think..... this is where the idea of being able to cross state lines and/or the fed coverage not being bound to a State comes into play.

Because Insurance is bound to the State, even the same Company can compete against itself...in a way. If it has anyone to compete with at all at various personal and corporate levels - if not it controls the rates other than what is or isn't approved by the State.

And I'm pretty sure big'ol insurance companies talk....

Come and get your Jack, to calm you down :winkwink:

My rate went up around 20% and it has it is up 100% since I got the insurance about 4 years ago and my insurance company is supposedly a non profit corporation.

Here's what no one has figured out yet... Your health insurance was going to go up no matter what. Doesn't matter what was in the bill who supported it, just the fact that any bill passed gave them the opportunity to raise rates.

the "tax deduction" is only useful to those who have set it up properly. Most haven't.

You can thank Obama and the democrats for that.

Everything Obama does, is counterproductive.

He wants to tax and penalize companies in the private sector, everything from his health care "reform" to his proposed cap and trade tax. The bottom line, they increase costs for the companies.

This is corporate America, not some socialist regime. These companies in the private sector are greedy, they will not reduce their profit margin for anyone. So guess who has to make up for the difference, yeah, YOU, the consumer. All parts of the health law haven't taken effect yet, but they will raise your hikes NOW to compensate for costs down the road.

EVERYONE is getting hit with it. So in America, 'land of the free', not only will you be FORCED to buy insurance by the government, but government regulation has also made companies in the private sector charge consumers more money. It's a lose / lose situation for most the middle and middle / upper class population. If you're a broke crackhead living on the streets, congrats. Obama will make sure to flush the entire economy down the drain to better cater to your needs. :thumbsup

A lot of you fucking idiots like to blame Republicans for everything, little do you know how much worse the Democrats and Obama can make our current situation. You say, "well what have the Republicans done?" Sometimes doing nothing is a lot better than trying to change everything from the inside out with horrifying negative consequences.

$8 a gallon for gas, (to protect the environment, Obama wants to tax companies who pollute). Raise taxes on corporations guess who they will race the prices on?

Increase in gas prices = a huge increase to transport goods, mainly FOOD.

His health care "reform".

On top of that, spending billions on government entitlement programs, which in other words = programs that spread the wealth to those who aren't as fortunate.

The Democrats have been doing that in one city for the past 30+ years, yeah, it's now a broke ghost town full of jobless crackheads.



It's a good the American voters have spoken and the majorities in congress have shifted. Obama's propaganda of "change" can't fool everyone.

Move to europe and get free health care.

Lame troll effort, yet great example of misinformation being spewed because the right wing media complex is controlling everything related to the information taken in by most.

Bravo, Bravo!

How big is the family?

Yeah. Move to Europe and pay twice as much in taxes. Have 1/5th the opportunities.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

America has always been about fewer government benefits but vastly greater economic opportunity and social mobility. Something the liberal leaches who want to live off the system might not understand.

Go look at wealth in other countries, especially Europe, over 70% of wealth is frequently the product of birth or inheritance. In Europe, unless you're born into vasts amounts of money the likeliness you will become a self-made millionaire is WAY slimmer than what it is here.

It's the end result of the free market being overrun by government bureaucrats.

In America, every city is filled with immigrants who came to the United States with nothing and now run thriving businesses that earn millions.

Go read the book 'The Millionaire Next Door', statistically, 80% of American millionaires are entirely self-made. A large percentage of them immigrants who came here with nothing. The land of opportunity wasn't something that was just made up for no reason. Good luck getting a business loan or finding a venture capitalists to fund a new business in Europe,.

It's the ONLY reason Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerburg and hundreds of others started life out in this country with nothing only to become self made billionaires. The owners of Microsoft, Linux, Apple, Youtube, Google; you fucking name it, were born here with an idea, that's all.

Bravo on being a typical liberal with no intelligent response. I think it's cute the clown liberals like to blame the "right wing media" for putting a spin on the decline of nearly everything Obama has attempted to accomplish.

Keep watching MSNBC. :thumbsup

Wow, what a lame come back.... For me to keep watching MSNBC, I would first need to know what channel it's on, then actually watch it. And to be a typical liberal, I would first need to be any kind of liberal, which is pretty hard when I'm not.

I blame the right wing media for spewing lies and missinfo; if it's related to Obama, the economy, the war, whatever it is - 90% of the twisted bullshit with half truths that YOU suck dry every chance you get is the issue at hand.


... anything else your cock holster would like to say?

Succinctly stated. :thumbsup

I am constantly amazed by how few people, in the midst of all the partisan blustering, seem to get this.