You mean there is nothing out there that they are willing to accept. Or they don't have enough incentive to go out and create your own work.

If you have major health problems and costs in your family (as I do), it may also be the way for you to go.

Three years ago, we switched from conventional to high-deductible. We saved almost $1000 a month in premiums and after paying all of our medical bills out of pocket for about 45 days, we had almost *no* out of pocket costs for the rest of the year. I estimated it saved us about $15-$20K that year.

Three years later, they've boosted the premiums, cut the benefits and increased the deductible to the point where our savings will probably only be around $5K this year. Still worth it, though.

You're calling doctors uneducated? Thats where I got my opinion from!

So tell me, how is insuring 30 million new people going to save money, that's what this is all about right?
As in your own words, educate me, how can they do that when the unions are getting waivers with their cadillac plans and states are challenging the constitutionality of the new law? Those were two ways of getting money for the new healthcare reform, then there is what they are doing to medicare, LOL, even AARP got a waiver

The tax deduction is a big plus most people don't know about or forget as well.

The pool of people they cover has greatly reduced in the last 20 years and your costs have been going up all along, a shit ton. So I wouldn't laugh it up too much.

Wouldn't this be the same with all the different insurance companies and competing against each other?

More people paying in? I think there is only 30 Million not covered...

Medicaid recipients can visit the ER anytime at zero cost (practically an incentive to use it), and hence for many of them the ER is, in effect, their primary physician.

However, for people with no insurance, but owning assets, trying to get a free ride at the ER will often work out badly and be a very costly ordeal...

Firstly, those without insurance will often be at charged upwards of 3 TIMES more than an insurance company would be for the same services.

Secondly, to make matters worse, hospitals and doctors are very aggressive at collecting debt.

Bottom line is for many people who earn an above poverty-level income and own assets the ER is going to cost them; no free ride.

As for self-insuring / paying cash ... many people paying cash think getting 10% or 20% is great when in reality they're still getting deeply gouged ... any discount less than 50% off is too much; insurance companies often pay around 1/3 the "cash" price.

Ron

I think..... this is where the idea of being able to cross state lines and/or the fed coverage not being bound to a State comes into play.

Because Insurance is bound to the State, even the same Company can compete against itself...in a way. If it has anyone to compete with at all at various personal and corporate levels - if not it controls the rates other than what is or isn't approved by the State.

And I'm pretty sure big'ol insurance companies talk....

Come and get your Jack, to calm you down :winkwink:

My rate went up around 20% and it has it is up 100% since I got the insurance about 4 years ago and my insurance company is supposedly a non profit corporation.

Here's what no one has figured out yet... Your health insurance was going to go up no matter what. Doesn't matter what was in the bill who supported it, just the fact that any bill passed gave them the opportunity to raise rates.

the "tax deduction" is only useful to those who have set it up properly. Most haven't.

You can thank Obama and the democrats for that.

Everything Obama does, is counterproductive.

He wants to tax and penalize companies in the private sector, everything from his health care "reform" to his proposed cap and trade tax. The bottom line, they increase costs for the companies.

This is corporate America, not some socialist regime. These companies in the private sector are greedy, they will not reduce their profit margin for anyone. So guess who has to make up for the difference, yeah, YOU, the consumer. All parts of the health law haven't taken effect yet, but they will raise your hikes NOW to compensate for costs down the road.

EVERYONE is getting hit with it. So in America, 'land of the free', not only will you be FORCED to buy insurance by the government, but government regulation has also made companies in the private sector charge consumers more money. It's a lose / lose situation for most the middle and middle / upper class population. If you're a broke crackhead living on the streets, congrats. Obama will make sure to flush the entire economy down the drain to better cater to your needs. :thumbsup

A lot of you fucking idiots like to blame Republicans for everything, little do you know how much worse the Democrats and Obama can make our current situation. You say, "well what have the Republicans done?" Sometimes doing nothing is a lot better than trying to change everything from the inside out with horrifying negative consequences.

$8 a gallon for gas, (to protect the environment, Obama wants to tax companies who pollute). Raise taxes on corporations guess who they will race the prices on?

Increase in gas prices = a huge increase to transport goods, mainly FOOD.

His health care "reform".

On top of that, spending billions on government entitlement programs, which in other words = programs that spread the wealth to those who aren't as fortunate.

The Democrats have been doing that in one city for the past 30+ years, yeah, it's now a broke ghost town full of jobless crackheads.



It's a good the American voters have spoken and the majorities in congress have shifted. Obama's propaganda of "change" can't fool everyone.

Move to europe and get free health care.

Lame troll effort, yet great example of misinformation being spewed because the right wing media complex is controlling everything related to the information taken in by most.

Bravo, Bravo!

How big is the family?

Yeah. Move to Europe and pay twice as much in taxes. Have 1/5th the opportunities.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

America has always been about fewer government benefits but vastly greater economic opportunity and social mobility. Something the liberal leaches who want to live off the system might not understand.

Go look at wealth in other countries, especially Europe, over 70% of wealth is frequently the product of birth or inheritance. In Europe, unless you're born into vasts amounts of money the likeliness you will become a self-made millionaire is WAY slimmer than what it is here.

It's the end result of the free market being overrun by government bureaucrats.

In America, every city is filled with immigrants who came to the United States with nothing and now run thriving businesses that earn millions.

Go read the book 'The Millionaire Next Door', statistically, 80% of American millionaires are entirely self-made. A large percentage of them immigrants who came here with nothing. The land of opportunity wasn't something that was just made up for no reason. Good luck getting a business loan or finding a venture capitalists to fund a new business in Europe,.

It's the ONLY reason Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerburg and hundreds of others started life out in this country with nothing only to become self made billionaires. The owners of Microsoft, Linux, Apple, Youtube, Google; you fucking name it, were born here with an idea, that's all.

Bravo on being a typical liberal with no intelligent response. I think it's cute the clown liberals like to blame the "right wing media" for putting a spin on the decline of nearly everything Obama has attempted to accomplish.

Keep watching MSNBC. :thumbsup

Wow, what a lame come back.... For me to keep watching MSNBC, I would first need to know what channel it's on, then actually watch it. And to be a typical liberal, I would first need to be any kind of liberal, which is pretty hard when I'm not.

I blame the right wing media for spewing lies and missinfo; if it's related to Obama, the economy, the war, whatever it is - 90% of the twisted bullshit with half truths that YOU suck dry every chance you get is the issue at hand.


... anything else your cock holster would like to say?

Succinctly stated. :thumbsup

I am constantly amazed by how few people, in the midst of all the partisan blustering, seem to get this.

I am amazed at all of the idiots who think that this would really be "FREE". Who do you think is going to pay for "FREE" health care??? Tax payers. Nothing Free. If anything, they would just continue to tax the shit out of the upper class to pay for another hand out for the people at the bottom.

Anyone who thinks healthcare would ever be wholly free is either (a) a leech or (b) very very bad at basic math or (c) believes in magic and unicorns.

However, the problem is clearly that insurance is a for-profit business. If you add a middleman to any business endeavor, the cost goes up for the end user. This is one of the most basic principles of business.

If someone like Hank is being gouged for $18k a year, what would his medical costs be for a lifetime versus his insurance costs? Most of the time, the answer is that insurance costs more than healthcare. Some people may appreciate the peace of mind, knowing (or thinking they know) they will be covered, if catastrophe strikes. But that peace of mind comes at a price.

I should add that the poor already do not pay for healthcare or health insurance. There were already programs for this.

What the new "healthcare" bill primarily does is subsidize the massive insurance industry, on the backs of small business and young people who are extremely unlikely to cost the insurance companies anything.

Yes, the provisions forcing insurance companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions will help a few people, but, on the overall, the insurance companies will make a much bigger profit.

but private companies run a tighter ship... it's probably not the best example, but it's one of the reasons why for example UPS turns a profit every year, while USPS has been losing money for ages...

I believe all HMO's require you to go to a doctor in their network by default, but I think there is also a way to file a claim for reimbursement if you go elsewhere. Is there any plan that lets you choose any doctor or hospital without discrimination? Luckily I haven't had to use mine much. The local walk-in clinic I go to on rare occassions when I am sick costs me only a $40 co-pay to see a doctor and I get decent discounts on medicines and dental work anywhere I want to purchase them.

UPS and USPS are largely analogous, but going to the doctor and having health insurance are very different.

Health insurance is massively government-subsidized already. For example, buying health insurance is 100% deductible, but major healthcare expenses over 15% of income are only 50% deductible. Now, health insurance purchase will actually be mandated.

If every three years, a family member needs a $20,000 set of medical services, that might seem like a lot, but it is almost certainly less than insurance for that family.

I do think better education on how to get a doctor would be helpful. I come across plenty of models, for example, who would think nothing of buying a few hundred dollars worth of makeup, but who wouldn't have a clue how to get to a dermatologist who would be $150 for the office visit and $60 for a prescription, which would do more good than the makeup.

Better access to doctors, perhaps through clinics, perhaps through having urgent cares in more cities, those sorts of things would be good. But forcing me to buy a health insurance product I feel is a rip-off? That is bad.

UPS doesnt deliver letters for 44 cents ...

Problems with access to the right doctor in a city is one thing, but try it in a small town. Then get charged more than someone in a city.

Salaried MDs would be those working for HMOs or clinics. That list ignores the vast majority of doctors in this country who are private corporations, basically self-employed. They make A LOT more than this. (Many doctors who work at a hospital and draw a salary also have a private practice.)

But this is not how much money they make, but that getting your news from doctors who depend on government payment contracts probably isn't the best way to be informed.

Sorry, but our country can not afford to provide free medical for 310,000,000 people.

PPO

I don't have a problem with my doctor living well. But I do have a problem with the government getting involved. Doctors should run the medical industry, not lawyers.

Very true. I think true healthcare initiatives would address that sort of issue and not just subsidize the already-bloated insurance industry.

How is that a response to what I said?

If you want to dispute my arguments please do so like an intelligent human being and address each one specifically. :thumbsup Simply saying it's all 'lies' and 'missinfo', (not even a real word joker) makes you sound like a child.

Exactly, just like people in Europe and Canada don't get anything for 'free'.

What are the gas prices like in Europe? 3-4 times what we pay, and why is that? TAX.

What about the price of cars? With all the taxes and fees the same cars we buy here cost 20-30% more in Europe.

Everything from buying milk at the store to paying your income taxes you pay for it. The money doesn't come from the sky.

Even in Canada, the value of a Canadian dollar is equal to ours, yet everything from a 12 pack of beer to a sandwich at Subway costs almost 15-20% more. Everything is taxed to compensate for government services that are "free".

We just got a 12% raise with no notice...argggg..:Oh crap

Can't we all just stick to porn?

What % has it been all the other years???

lol@the stupid liberals on this site.

That's just for me and the wife:helpme

Our plan is a PPO very similar to yours with a $20 co-pay prescription drug plan as well but we can choose private doctors and hospitals of which most in the area are part of the plan.