How about a picture of a license plate? So owner of the car gets the ticket and can lose his/her license if not paid.

... So owner of IP that pirated gets a fine and if not paid is held liable.

See the resemblance ;) :2 cents:

not stupid, just wrong. anyone who makes sweeping generalizations about anything is always wrong at least part of the time. you should know this, i mean really...


They are not going after innocent people, they are going after people who they suspect have illegally downloaded copyrighted material, otherwise they would not be going after said people. Not all of the people they go after are guilty however, and this happens all the time in the criminal justice system. Some innocent people get caught up in it all and you must learn to accept this as reality. And yes i am quite aware one is innocent until proven guilty (but not really) but this is the way cases are made.


That's good...i think. But considering your orwellian sense of reality one must pause to wonder.

I don't think an IP address is proof of guilt either, but i do think it is PROBABLE CAUSE to attempt to make a case and search for further evidence. This happens all of the time, its part of most legal systems. You get a little evidence and you move forward with a case to gather more evidence.


Okay, step away from the pipe. How can you possibly cross-connect these two scenarios? hahaha i am laughing out loud here, i mean WTF?
In the first place everyone sues everyone else, have you not recieved that memo?

You actually think people are going to look at lawsuits from not only porn producers but major film producers (ie Hurt Locker case) and say "Damn them those evil porn mongers and movie producers, they've attacked enough innocent people. That's it, I'm never buying porn or seeing a movie again!"

Man they're too busy suing their neighbor over accidently pouring some fertilizer on their side of the lawn! :1orglaugh

Really that one was pretty weak...

Right.. See you soon ;-)

Gosh, you are really tough, aren't you?

;)

Man up Eric. If you want to threaten me, threaten me. Don't pussy about the subject like a girl.

;)

DING DING DING IRONY* ALERT!

Innocent people are getting the quasi blackmail letters, that's the point. Old people being accused of downloading nazi gay porn. Not nice, is it?

Me too, but they don't do that, do they? They send them quasi blackmail letters, which is what I object to.

I can't find a case where there was extra 'evidence' presented. They do the blackmail letter and people confess. I cannot see records of HDD being scanned to prove the file was there etc. (Not saying that never happened, saying I cannot find such a case).


What? You think it is GOOD PR to sue potential customers.

You amuse me no end.


*Not the Alanis version of the word

Nothing has been tossed out... the outcome of this court has hasn't been decided.

Here in the States, a Judge has already made it clear you have to sue in the proper jurisdiction.

Well gee, the bar changed for the people with wifi connections - which isn't everyone. Of course, unless the person has a new HD, it's 'very easy' to see what files they've downloaded to the pc directly, even if they deleted them..... your arguments are so weak.

Oh and before you say otherwise... Courts have already done this in other cases, I recall a CP case they pulled old/deleted images from the drive, so it's not like it can't happen.



None of this has to do with a subpoena... which can be used to get a wide range of information. Btw, your lame twist of "force people to give up their private information" is stupid... Nobody ever said they did, nobody is making them do so.

At that, "‘allowing’ others to infringe is itself an infringing act, when it is not.” - first this has nothing to do with what I said and second, I never argued otherwise - hell you can ignore this all together and still nail 99% of the people for pirating.



P.S. I don't really care what the UK is doing..

has anyone ever got charged a ticket when a car that was reported stolen ran a red light

no

in fact if the licience plate is reported stolen the ticket is never sent

even your example clearly disquishes between culpible and non culpability for the action
the problem is wifi access could be stolen without you even knowing,

and unless you purchase a 100k military grade router, you can be hacked in under 12 hours by free waring tools you can download off the internet even if you follow all the rules on securing your wifi that the strictest isp has set down.

Fact: Not everyone has wifi getting these letters.

Fact: MOST people DID pirate the content, and did NOT get hacked.

Fact: No pirate on the planet is going to crack wpa/mac address protection on a wifi, wait for that slow ass mess to happen, taking days (not hours) to download/upload crap, when the jackass down the street has an open connection.

Fact: Anyone with the tech ability to do the above, can EASILY mask who they are online, without hacking a wifi - even a completely open one would be stupid backwards for them. We're talking about Piracy here - Not actually doing something dirty.

From that article-

Yes i completely agree with you on that, if they are just sending out random threats with no probable cause that law firm should not exist anymore.

Although if i recieved a threat such as this i would just tell them to fuck off or get a lawyer to counter-sue because it seems like a very easy case of extortion/blackmail. First i would probably tell them to go ahead and tell the world i look at porn, and the world will respond 'Big deal, i do too.' The stigma of porn is fading fast, its being embraced by the mainstream so using that angle to scare people is pretty weak imo.

My argument is that if there is probably cause behind an ip address, some kind of reasonable suspicion they should absolutely go after the suspect within the boundaries of the law.

Footnote: yep Alanis is indeed a douche for that one
on edit: i remember the day i saw that "Irony" video and i thought "No, this can't be the same singer with those other good tunes, it's impossible she does not know the meaning of the word." But alas Alanis....

Keep in mind that this is not the way it's really happening. That article and the rantings of some of the posters who do NOT have skin in the game are not indicative of what this whole thing is about.

What it is about...is people seeing their livelihood being destroyed for almost 3 years now with ZERO recourse. Companies shutting down production, employees being fired, etc. Lives being screwed.

And for me personally, it's been the sheer frustration of seeing my work being stolen and not being able to do a thing about it.

This isn't about "threatening" people. Nobody does that in any way. But we KNOW that a lot of these people really don't want their surfing habits exposed. That's why an HONEST person who joins a porn site legitimately knows that their privacy is protected. They are billed discreetly...in our case LESS THAN A DOLLAR A DAY.

And then they can enjoy more porn than at any other time in history, legally and safely. But if they want to download "free" porn that is destroying our industry? Then fuck them.

This is real life. With real consequences. And if a person like me puts their ass on the line shooting, keeping 2257 docs, worrying about the govt. every damn day...only to see some assholes steal it? Well, that don't sit right with me. And I can and will do everything in my power to protect my business and ensure the welfare of my family.

And since people like me are right on the front lines...and not just theorizing about it like that clown damianj...I think we have a much better grip on what's really happening here.

I tend to go with people with knowledge and experience. Not some of the ramblings of people whose expertise is nowhere near this.

Robbie as I've said if there is reasonable proof to proceed with an infringement case via IP address or whatever, I am all for it. But if its just some lawyer sending random threats with no initial proof, that is insane.

You are absolutely correct, the time is now to strike and get the money that has been lost by whatever means necessary, as long as those means are within the legal limits.

So if Johnny X is tracked by ip and has downloaded copyrighted material illegally, not only should he pay dearly but the news must be spread far and wide to instill fear in those who are thinking about doing the same thing.

I don't know of any attorney who is making "random threats". Matter of fact nobody has been "threatened"
Everything is done via a subpoena from a judge to get the records. And then letters are sent out. And 99.99% of the time these people getting the letters not only are identified by IP address but ALSO from the profile they filled out on the site they are downloading from.

This whole issue is being misrepresented by some people who simply DO NOT have any knowledge or experience in how this is done.

If it were really a crazed lawyer making "Threats" he would quickly be dis-barred and jailed. That just isn't the case at all.

Go to pornbb dot org. Just look at what is happening there. Those surfers are not only destroying this business...but they BRAG about it and IDENTIFY themselves.
They have profiles. This isn't about a hacked wi-fi. This is about millions of people blatantly stealing and then brazenly identifying themselves!

I agree 100%...IF this was some Magic Lawyer who could somehow legally get away with "threatening" people it would be wrong. That is not what's happening. Nobody is EVER threatened. They simply get their letter in the mail and have a choice of court or settlement. No "threat" is ever made or even implied. But what DOES happen is they know that "yes" they did download it and they realize the cost of going to court is much more than the small settlement. So they settle.

And the content producers in this industry...THE VERY LIFEBLOOD of our industry that makes all of us money...are able to recoup a small part of the massive losses that have happened.

I just wanted to present the reality of what is going on and not the grotesquely distorted view of the insane gideongallery and the clueless damianj. Neither of these clowns have ANY knowledge of this business.

That's right...I forgot about the registered accounts, profiles filled out, login data over time, etc... All of which is the other nail in the coffin!

I don't think any of us agree with blanket attacks... at first it may have started like this - but today this isn't what is happening - as you pointed out.

If that is the case then there is no randomness about it, they have probable cause so bombs away!

While I...like most people...don't much trust attorneys in general (just a kneejerk reaction I suppose), it really does make sense that nobody is "threatening" anybody. An attorney isn't going to get themselves disbarred and possibly arrested for doing stupid stuff like that. Threatening people doesn't even come into the equation.

The only reason that keeps being said is because some of us pointed out that one of the factors in a person settling a porn case as opposed to the music download cases of 12 years ago is that the majority of folks don't really want their sexual fantasies made public or revealed to their family.

When it's all said and done...the guilty party KNOWS they did it, they made the mistake of identifying THEMSELVES on all these surfer forums dedicated to stealing, and they don't want to be embarrassed as being identified as both a thief and a guy who downloads porn. (and yes, everybody watches porn...but few people want to have that brought out in court...but that's NOT the main crux of why they settle)

the lawyers that do the same in the UK are about to get themselves disbarred, if they aren't already.

early signs in the US are going the same way.

I've seen no "early signs" in the US. of any such thing. Everything is being done above board. You shouldn't listen to rumors and b.s. from people who don't know what they are talking about. Every "sign" I've seen is that we are winning and finally striking a blow back.

And I'd like to know of just one U.S. lawyer working one of these cases who has ever "threatened" anybody. It doesn't exist. Because that would instantly lose the case.

Did anyone ever spell out exactly what is done, how it's all handled, etc? Right now it's not at all clear who is getting sued for what? Exactly what evidence is being used? All that is repeated 100x over is that ISPs get subpenoed for names/addresses and those people get sued..

so there should be an issue with NOT sending letters to the wifi people


fantastic so there should be no problem producing that proof before sending out the threatening letter.


try 20 minutes the average person secures their wifi with a login id that a real world word

a dictionary slam will get by that in under 20 minutes.


so the publicly logged ip address is not really actual downloader of the content,
you mean ip address information is credible prooft of identity because real hackers can mask their identity thru

No they're not.

I know you have a mullet and all, but really, come on man.

a) PAY US 2k OR WE GO PUBLIC

How is that not a threat?

b) The UK lawyers that pioneered this disgusting behaviour ARE facing a committee to be disbarred and I am sure the American ones will face the same thing soon enough.

So, quasiblackmail your potential customers while you can. But don't pretend this is anything to do with stopping piracy.

That is all that is done. People find on a public tracker the IP address of someone potentially infringing their copyright. Assuming of course they actually copyrighted their content properly, which most don't. They then make the ISP cough up the name and address of the person who pays the bill of that IP address. They then send a threatening letter to that name. No actual, oh what's that word...oh yes. PROOF.

No cases are intended to go to court, as the judge would (and has) thrown out the cases for lack of, oh what's that thing called? Proof.

It's just a way to extort money from scared people who do not want their job, family life, etc threatened.

Nasty stuff.

The emails from acs: law can be found with a simple google search. Go and read them. Then you will realise they admit they are just doing this to extort money.