It disturbs me that your reading comprehension is at the level of a 5 year old.

This thread is about acs:law a UK firm of ambulance chasing lawyers are in trouble with a judge for not turning up for their own case against some john does.

I am not pro piracy. I am anti-suing IP addresses.

How many times do I need to explain this?

Even the LAWYERS on the suing end users panel agree with me that this sort of litigation is stupid and immoral.

Are you calling them pro piracy? Of course not.

Read the words I actually write, not the words that you think I wrote and you won't come across looking quite so silly.

HTH

Love

Damian
x

Oh you are such a funny little chap. I love the size of the hard on you have for me.

Your detective game is weak though, because Sean and I are great friends and have been for many years. This is why we are photographed together often. And it's not his company. It's Scott's. Bless you for trying though.

I think sending blackmail letters to people that pay for an IP address is a cunt's game. Sean probably thinks some things I think are cunty too.

That doesn't mean that we cannot be friends and cannot work together, love. It means we have a difference of opinion on something.

I can draw you a picture if you are still unsure on this. LMK.

Damian

I agree. ACS: Law will be extinct first when they have their hearing about being unethical in a few weeks. Then the US lawyers that copied them will be next.

It's about time that judges realised these people have no intentions whatsoever about stopping piracy, and just want to make money.

In the panel I took part on in interNEXT someone made a great point. All piracy is done by one person or one group of people. One member gets the stuff and seeds it.

It is very easy to find that person.

Yet the "lawyers" don't go after him, they send out 9,000 john doe blackmail letters...

I wonder why?

Of yes, because this is nothing to do with piracy and is everything to do with making as much money as possible. The leaked emails from ACS:Law prove this.

I thought it was a brilliant point.

What do you think?

Amen Damian, nice to see someone on this board with some common sense and tired of these fucking assholes who arent interested in stopping piracy but just making a quick buck

really then why was the case that was in the correct jurisdiction also throw out.

ALL the case were thrown out not just the ones outside the jurisdiction

and yes the bar has changed
you can no longer claim that paying for the internet connection means your authorizsing every use of that connection including people hopping on your unsecured/secured wifi connection.

why because

JDS do not nor have they ever given you blanket right to force people to give up their private information
one of the conditions for a JDS to go forward is that the case must have merits

the fundamental merits of the plea (not the JDS the entire plea) has been challenged and found wanting,

only a complete moron would claim that this doesn't raise the bar on these types of cases.

I think you're full of it.

You keep taking the lame stance that tracking ip addresses is just a money making ploy...

But consider this concept genius-

What if the real idea was to try to get your money back?

Did you ever, even once, consider the amount of $ LOST by these companies and these extreme measures are being taken to *recoup their losses* from piracy?

Why of course not because it doesn't fit into your whiny rant.

Bottom line: companies are tired of getting ripped off and they will *succesfully* do whatever it takes to get their money back and then some.

Lawyers, Guns and Money

Adapt or die:2 cents:

Ah, at least we have some common ground because my opinion of you is exactly the same!

Hilarious. It is, love. Everyone involved has said so. ACS say so, even our very own Lightspeed has said so. Do try and keep up. Go and read the acs emails.

Wow. That is funny! So you make a film for - say - 50k. And some people who wouldn't ever have bought it pirate it, and you want to get money from them, so you send out 10k john doe blackmail letters to do that? Genius!

No. Because they all say they are doing it for the cash. Otherwise they would go for the SOURCE of the piracy to stop them losing all this cash you claim they are losing.

Or they'd go after IRC, and Usenet, and private FTP.

They ONLY reason this is do-able is because of the public nature of torrent trackers. It's nothing to do with piracy, and all to do with making bank.

If someone started a campaign against the rippers I would be all behind it, this is how little you understand of my thinking.

Or because it is a fallacy. You do the math.

Bottom line: Piracy is unsteoppable and some dispicable fraudsters are sending out blackmail letters to people to try and make money. Judges in the UK are now stopping this happening, and it looks like they are in the US too.

So, if you LIKE the idea of blackmailing people into paying you cash, you'd better fucking work fast, kid, cos that gravy train will be derailed by the judicial system this year.

and there you go again with the weak arguement of "well they wouldn't have bought it anyways."
it is amazing that you know every time in every case that those people would never have bought it in the first place! your clairvoyant powers are incredible!

but let's get beyond this angle for one minute.

what you're saying is that these people have pirated said material and should not be held responsible for their actions right? they should be in no way culpable for willfully downloading a copyrighted work?

What else needs to be said? You're trying to say these people are being blackmailed when in reality they are the law breakers.

Wow.

All of this aside i don't think this is a great way to stop piracy as there are simply more efficient methods, but it can instill fear, which is a good thing. If one guy gets sued for an illegal download you best believe at minimum 20 people in his direct line are going to know and most of them will think twice about downloading protected material.
And with coverage in the local news and the schools etc., the message will be heard.

So, you are saying that the American judicial system is wrong and the judges are "weak"?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...lost-sales.ars

This isn't *my* argument, but a judge's.

Do you think he is stupid?

Fuck me sideways, are you being intentionally stupid or just trolling?

Please quote me saying anything that even RESEMBLES that.

Why do you struggle separating thinking that blackmailing innocent people is bad from piracy is good?

It's really not hard.

On one had you have me saying that sending blackmail letters to people that you have no proof committed any crime is bad. However you somehow seem to read those words as me saying piracy is great.

Once again, let me stress that I think piracy is bad. Of course it is, everyone apart from gideonmentalcase thinks that.

However, this position doesn't preclude me from thinking that the 2 bit ambulance chasing cunt lawyers are subhuman scumbags. Do you see? The two things are not mutually exclusive.

If someone can *prove* that someone downloaded a copyrighted work, then I am all for suing the fuckery out of them. Sadly, I've not seen any actual PROOF. An IP address is as far removed from proof as a picture of a cheeseburger is.

Damn right. It can install fear into decent credit card owning porn buyers thinking that 'we' are fucking outrageous cunts for threatening to blackmail people over porn. A teacher might think that he best not actually BUY membership to a porn site in case they decide to go public with the lists, much easier to just watch a tube, right!

We've got a bad enough rep already. Dialers, hidden prechecked cross sales, shit sites with no content, banging cards etc etc.

We really don't need to add quasiblackmail to the list of bad things the public thinks about us or we'll scare off the last few remaining prospects out there.

You need to look at the big picture.

All the 'message' does is increase people's awareness of how easy it is to steal porn. If you look at alexa around the time the Jamie RIAA case blew up you will see a HUGE increase in their traffic.

You would think the publicity would work against piracy, in fact, all evidence I've looked at proves the exact opposite and it educates people about how to pirate more efficiently.

Thanks for playing, pick up your goody bag at the door.

How about a picture of a license plate? So owner of the car gets the ticket and can lose his/her license if not paid.

... So owner of IP that pirated gets a fine and if not paid is held liable.

See the resemblance ;) :2 cents:

not stupid, just wrong. anyone who makes sweeping generalizations about anything is always wrong at least part of the time. you should know this, i mean really...


They are not going after innocent people, they are going after people who they suspect have illegally downloaded copyrighted material, otherwise they would not be going after said people. Not all of the people they go after are guilty however, and this happens all the time in the criminal justice system. Some innocent people get caught up in it all and you must learn to accept this as reality. And yes i am quite aware one is innocent until proven guilty (but not really) but this is the way cases are made.


That's good...i think. But considering your orwellian sense of reality one must pause to wonder.

I don't think an IP address is proof of guilt either, but i do think it is PROBABLE CAUSE to attempt to make a case and search for further evidence. This happens all of the time, its part of most legal systems. You get a little evidence and you move forward with a case to gather more evidence.


Okay, step away from the pipe. How can you possibly cross-connect these two scenarios? hahaha i am laughing out loud here, i mean WTF?
In the first place everyone sues everyone else, have you not recieved that memo?

You actually think people are going to look at lawsuits from not only porn producers but major film producers (ie Hurt Locker case) and say "Damn them those evil porn mongers and movie producers, they've attacked enough innocent people. That's it, I'm never buying porn or seeing a movie again!"

Man they're too busy suing their neighbor over accidently pouring some fertilizer on their side of the lawn! :1orglaugh

Really that one was pretty weak...

Right.. See you soon ;-)

Gosh, you are really tough, aren't you?

;)

Man up Eric. If you want to threaten me, threaten me. Don't pussy about the subject like a girl.

;)

DING DING DING IRONY* ALERT!

Innocent people are getting the quasi blackmail letters, that's the point. Old people being accused of downloading nazi gay porn. Not nice, is it?

Me too, but they don't do that, do they? They send them quasi blackmail letters, which is what I object to.

I can't find a case where there was extra 'evidence' presented. They do the blackmail letter and people confess. I cannot see records of HDD being scanned to prove the file was there etc. (Not saying that never happened, saying I cannot find such a case).


What? You think it is GOOD PR to sue potential customers.

You amuse me no end.


*Not the Alanis version of the word

Nothing has been tossed out... the outcome of this court has hasn't been decided.

Here in the States, a Judge has already made it clear you have to sue in the proper jurisdiction.

Well gee, the bar changed for the people with wifi connections - which isn't everyone. Of course, unless the person has a new HD, it's 'very easy' to see what files they've downloaded to the pc directly, even if they deleted them..... your arguments are so weak.

Oh and before you say otherwise... Courts have already done this in other cases, I recall a CP case they pulled old/deleted images from the drive, so it's not like it can't happen.



None of this has to do with a subpoena... which can be used to get a wide range of information. Btw, your lame twist of "force people to give up their private information" is stupid... Nobody ever said they did, nobody is making them do so.

At that, "‘allowing’ others to infringe is itself an infringing act, when it is not.” - first this has nothing to do with what I said and second, I never argued otherwise - hell you can ignore this all together and still nail 99% of the people for pirating.



P.S. I don't really care what the UK is doing..

has anyone ever got charged a ticket when a car that was reported stolen ran a red light

no

in fact if the licience plate is reported stolen the ticket is never sent

even your example clearly disquishes between culpible and non culpability for the action
the problem is wifi access could be stolen without you even knowing,

and unless you purchase a 100k military grade router, you can be hacked in under 12 hours by free waring tools you can download off the internet even if you follow all the rules on securing your wifi that the strictest isp has set down.

Fact: Not everyone has wifi getting these letters.

Fact: MOST people DID pirate the content, and did NOT get hacked.

Fact: No pirate on the planet is going to crack wpa/mac address protection on a wifi, wait for that slow ass mess to happen, taking days (not hours) to download/upload crap, when the jackass down the street has an open connection.

Fact: Anyone with the tech ability to do the above, can EASILY mask who they are online, without hacking a wifi - even a completely open one would be stupid backwards for them. We're talking about Piracy here - Not actually doing something dirty.

From that article-

Yes i completely agree with you on that, if they are just sending out random threats with no probable cause that law firm should not exist anymore.

Although if i recieved a threat such as this i would just tell them to fuck off or get a lawyer to counter-sue because it seems like a very easy case of extortion/blackmail. First i would probably tell them to go ahead and tell the world i look at porn, and the world will respond 'Big deal, i do too.' The stigma of porn is fading fast, its being embraced by the mainstream so using that angle to scare people is pretty weak imo.

My argument is that if there is probably cause behind an ip address, some kind of reasonable suspicion they should absolutely go after the suspect within the boundaries of the law.

Footnote: yep Alanis is indeed a douche for that one
on edit: i remember the day i saw that "Irony" video and i thought "No, this can't be the same singer with those other good tunes, it's impossible she does not know the meaning of the word." But alas Alanis....

Keep in mind that this is not the way it's really happening. That article and the rantings of some of the posters who do NOT have skin in the game are not indicative of what this whole thing is about.

What it is about...is people seeing their livelihood being destroyed for almost 3 years now with ZERO recourse. Companies shutting down production, employees being fired, etc. Lives being screwed.

And for me personally, it's been the sheer frustration of seeing my work being stolen and not being able to do a thing about it.

This isn't about "threatening" people. Nobody does that in any way. But we KNOW that a lot of these people really don't want their surfing habits exposed. That's why an HONEST person who joins a porn site legitimately knows that their privacy is protected. They are billed discreetly...in our case LESS THAN A DOLLAR A DAY.

And then they can enjoy more porn than at any other time in history, legally and safely. But if they want to download "free" porn that is destroying our industry? Then fuck them.

This is real life. With real consequences. And if a person like me puts their ass on the line shooting, keeping 2257 docs, worrying about the govt. every damn day...only to see some assholes steal it? Well, that don't sit right with me. And I can and will do everything in my power to protect my business and ensure the welfare of my family.

And since people like me are right on the front lines...and not just theorizing about it like that clown damianj...I think we have a much better grip on what's really happening here.

I tend to go with people with knowledge and experience. Not some of the ramblings of people whose expertise is nowhere near this.

Robbie as I've said if there is reasonable proof to proceed with an infringement case via IP address or whatever, I am all for it. But if its just some lawyer sending random threats with no initial proof, that is insane.

You are absolutely correct, the time is now to strike and get the money that has been lost by whatever means necessary, as long as those means are within the legal limits.

So if Johnny X is tracked by ip and has downloaded copyrighted material illegally, not only should he pay dearly but the news must be spread far and wide to instill fear in those who are thinking about doing the same thing.

I don't know of any attorney who is making "random threats". Matter of fact nobody has been "threatened"
Everything is done via a subpoena from a judge to get the records. And then letters are sent out. And 99.99% of the time these people getting the letters not only are identified by IP address but ALSO from the profile they filled out on the site they are downloading from.

This whole issue is being misrepresented by some people who simply DO NOT have any knowledge or experience in how this is done.

If it were really a crazed lawyer making "Threats" he would quickly be dis-barred and jailed. That just isn't the case at all.

Go to pornbb dot org. Just look at what is happening there. Those surfers are not only destroying this business...but they BRAG about it and IDENTIFY themselves.
They have profiles. This isn't about a hacked wi-fi. This is about millions of people blatantly stealing and then brazenly identifying themselves!

I agree 100%...IF this was some Magic Lawyer who could somehow legally get away with "threatening" people it would be wrong. That is not what's happening. Nobody is EVER threatened. They simply get their letter in the mail and have a choice of court or settlement. No "threat" is ever made or even implied. But what DOES happen is they know that "yes" they did download it and they realize the cost of going to court is much more than the small settlement. So they settle.

And the content producers in this industry...THE VERY LIFEBLOOD of our industry that makes all of us money...are able to recoup a small part of the massive losses that have happened.

I just wanted to present the reality of what is going on and not the grotesquely distorted view of the insane gideongallery and the clueless damianj. Neither of these clowns have ANY knowledge of this business.

That's right...I forgot about the registered accounts, profiles filled out, login data over time, etc... All of which is the other nail in the coffin!

I don't think any of us agree with blanket attacks... at first it may have started like this - but today this isn't what is happening - as you pointed out.

If that is the case then there is no randomness about it, they have probable cause so bombs away!

While I...like most people...don't much trust attorneys in general (just a kneejerk reaction I suppose), it really does make sense that nobody is "threatening" anybody. An attorney isn't going to get themselves disbarred and possibly arrested for doing stupid stuff like that. Threatening people doesn't even come into the equation.

The only reason that keeps being said is because some of us pointed out that one of the factors in a person settling a porn case as opposed to the music download cases of 12 years ago is that the majority of folks don't really want their sexual fantasies made public or revealed to their family.

When it's all said and done...the guilty party KNOWS they did it, they made the mistake of identifying THEMSELVES on all these surfer forums dedicated to stealing, and they don't want to be embarrassed as being identified as both a thief and a guy who downloads porn. (and yes, everybody watches porn...but few people want to have that brought out in court...but that's NOT the main crux of why they settle)

the lawyers that do the same in the UK are about to get themselves disbarred, if they aren't already.

early signs in the US are going the same way.

I've seen no "early signs" in the US. of any such thing. Everything is being done above board. You shouldn't listen to rumors and b.s. from people who don't know what they are talking about. Every "sign" I've seen is that we are winning and finally striking a blow back.

And I'd like to know of just one U.S. lawyer working one of these cases who has ever "threatened" anybody. It doesn't exist. Because that would instantly lose the case.

Did anyone ever spell out exactly what is done, how it's all handled, etc? Right now it's not at all clear who is getting sued for what? Exactly what evidence is being used? All that is repeated 100x over is that ISPs get subpenoed for names/addresses and those people get sued..

so there should be an issue with NOT sending letters to the wifi people


fantastic so there should be no problem producing that proof before sending out the threatening letter.


try 20 minutes the average person secures their wifi with a login id that a real world word

a dictionary slam will get by that in under 20 minutes.


so the publicly logged ip address is not really actual downloader of the content,
you mean ip address information is credible prooft of identity because real hackers can mask their identity thru

No they're not.

I know you have a mullet and all, but really, come on man.

a) PAY US 2k OR WE GO PUBLIC

How is that not a threat?

b) The UK lawyers that pioneered this disgusting behaviour ARE facing a committee to be disbarred and I am sure the American ones will face the same thing soon enough.

So, quasiblackmail your potential customers while you can. But don't pretend this is anything to do with stopping piracy.

That is all that is done. People find on a public tracker the IP address of someone potentially infringing their copyright. Assuming of course they actually copyrighted their content properly, which most don't. They then make the ISP cough up the name and address of the person who pays the bill of that IP address. They then send a threatening letter to that name. No actual, oh what's that word...oh yes. PROOF.

No cases are intended to go to court, as the judge would (and has) thrown out the cases for lack of, oh what's that thing called? Proof.

It's just a way to extort money from scared people who do not want their job, family life, etc threatened.

Nasty stuff.

The emails from acs: law can be found with a simple google search. Go and read them. Then you will realise they admit they are just doing this to extort money.