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-   -   will religion take over the world? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1007567)

CaptainHowdy 01-26-2011 12:33 PM
Theology + GFY = LOL

Bryan G 01-26-2011 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 17870984)
Glad you have facts to back this up.... Oh wait... You don't.:1orglaugh
Hitler and Stalin killed more people than religion ever could. Next=>


So you're claiming my beliefs are wrong because it's a fact(your opinion) that since there is no God, man must have written the various bibles? There's too many logical fallacies to paste here.. Just an uneducated, simple minded statement. Please continue.
Did hitler not kill people because they were JEWISH, last time i looked that was a religion.

The Demon 01-26-2011 12:34 PM
Quote:
I would argue exactly the opposite... with the higher being on your side (allegedly), believers are free to rationalize almost anything.

I'm sure the Moabites, Amalekites and Canaanites would agree.
I'm sure they won't. They used a higher being or beings to their own benefit, just like non religious people use relativism to theirs. The truly religious monotheists don't take everything so literally and don't use God as an excuse.

The Demon 01-26-2011 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan G (Post 17870994)
Did hitler not kill people because they were JEWISH, last time i looked that was a religion.
Did you... Completely not understand what was typed? Hitler killed Jews for more aspects than religion, as well as Christians, but that's not even the point. I can't believe I have to explain this to a grown man. Two people who were against religions killed over 50 million people. That's more people killed than any massacres "in the name of God".

wig 01-26-2011 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 17870995)
I'm sure they won't. They used a higher being or beings to their own benefit, just like non religious people use relativism to theirs. The truly religious monotheists don't take everything so literally and don't use God as an excuse.
No true Scotsman

In your preferred text, more specifically for example Numbers 31:7-18, you can't possibly argue that Moses et al did not use their higher being to their own benefit while simultaneously rationalizing away what any reasonable person would consider immoral behavior.

It starts out with... Numbers 31:7 "They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man."

Is Moses an example of a NON truly religious monotheist? Or do you take this as allegory while accepting literally the Flood story?

wig 01-26-2011 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan G (Post 17870994)
Did hitler not kill people because they were JEWISH, last time i looked that was a religion.
It doesn't matter. Yes, the Catholic church supported Hitler and Hitler used language that any reasonable person would describe as religious and even Christian. German soldiers wore Gott mit uns (God with us) on their belt buckles. Hitler referenced the Christian god several times in Mein Kampf.

But regardless, I don't believe that religion or religious wars have killed more people, but either way I don't really think that helps settle any matter regarding the veracity of religion or its potential utility or harm.

CaptainHowdy 01-26-2011 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan G (Post 17870994)
Did hitler not kill people because they were JEWISH, last time i looked that was a religion.
Hitler started killing jews not on "religious" grounds but on (pseudo) "biological" grounds...

The Demon 01-26-2011 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wig (Post 17871150)
No true Scotsman

In your preferred text, more specifically for example Numbers 31:7-18, you can't possibly argue that Moses et al did not use their higher being to their own benefit while simultaneously rationalizing away what any reasonable person would consider immoral behavior.

It starts out with... Numbers 31:7 "They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man."

Is Moses an example of a NON truly religious monotheist? Or do you take this as allegory while accepting literally the Flood story?
There are things in the Torah that have explanations in separate books, and there are things, events that you would take literally. The flood is a literal event, and one that has been researched for a while. Evidence exists that it did in fact happen. The popular belief was that it was a volcano and then a tsunami... Do I know why Moses did what he did? Does the Torah specifically state that God commanded Moses to destroy the Midianites because of what they were doing? I think so but that's something I'd have to ask a Rabbi. I can't give you an answer until then but I doubt it's the same thing as modern rationalizations using God. Find me one and I can give you an explanation of that rule/law/rationalization.

BlackCrayon 01-26-2011 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 17870984)
Glad you have facts to back this up.... Oh wait... You don't.:1orglaugh
Hitler and Stalin killed more people than religion ever could. Next=>


So you're claiming my beliefs are wrong because it's a fact(your opinion) that since there is no God, man must have written the various bibles? There's too many logical fallacies to paste here.. Just an uneducated, simple minded statement. Please continue.
Regardless if there is a god or not, man wrote whats in the bible. You really think that even if it did come from 'god', that those writting didn't put their own slant on it? How do you like the fact that one of the main reasons jews have been persecuted is due to the fact that they killed god's son? Do you think there would of been a holocaust if the guy the jews killed wasn't supposed to be god's only begotten son? And good ole Stalin, sure he was atheist or whatever but what difference would it of made if he was Roman Catholic? Did world leaders being religous stop them from slaughtering people? Nope. Keep brusing it off as a 'simple minded statement' but there are so many 'logical fallacies' about religion and the bible i could write about it for a lifetime and not finish.

The Demon 01-26-2011 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 17871269)
Regardless if there is a god or not, man wrote whats in the bible
Prove up or shut up.
Quote:
You really think that even if it did come from 'god', that those writting didn't put their own slant on it?
Yes, I think it came from God. No, it's not my job to convince you.
Quote:
How do you like the fact that one of the main reasons jews have been persecuted is due to the fact that they killed god's son?
The Jews were persecuted a thousand years before we killed Jesus, and we will be persecuted a thousand years from now. Chosen people=>

Quote:
Do you think there would of been a holocaust if the guy the jews killed wasn't supposed to be god's only begotten son?
This shows me you have no understanding hof history. You think we had a holocause because...We killed Jesus? Please tell me you're 12 years old.. That's one of the dumbest assertions I've ever heard. The holocaust happened for economic reasons, not religious ones.

Quote:
And good ole Stalin, sure he was atheist or whatever but what difference would it of made if he was Roman Catholic? Did world leaders being religous stop them from slaughtering people? Nope. Keep brusing it off as a 'simple minded statement' but there are so many 'logical fallacies' about religion and the bible i could write about it for a lifetime and not finish.
Show me one logical fallacy. At least wig is putting up good arguments that are out of my area of expertise. You're like an angry little kid. Either make a good argument or stfu. :thumbsup

Cyber Fucker 01-26-2011 02:01 PM



BlackCrayon 01-26-2011 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 17871296)
Prove up or shut up.
Yes, I think it came from God. No, it's not my job to convince you.

The Jews were persecuted a thousand years before we killed Jesus, and we will be persecuted a thousand years from now. Chosen people=>


This shows me you have no understanding hof history. You think we had a holocause because...We killed Jesus? Please tell me you're 12 years old.. That's one of the dumbest assertions I've ever heard. The holocaust happened for economic reasons, not religious ones.


Show me one logical fallacy. At least wig is putting up good arguments that are out of my area of expertise. You're like an angry little kid. Either make a good argument or stfu. :thumbsup
Yeah I'm 12. You got me. ChoseN people. hahaha, thats hilarious. This is exactly why religion is a problem. You aren't chosen. Anyone can say they are chosen. it means shit all. and yes A MAN WROTE WHATS IN THE BIBLE. DID GOD TOSS A BIG BOOK OF STORIES DOWN FROM THE SKY? NO. iF ANYTHING HE NEEDED TO WORK THROUGH A HUMAN BEING TO PUT IT DOWN ON SOMETHING.

so killing jesus had no negative effect on the jewish people? say what you want, i believe its in part the reason why people sat on their hands while their neighbors were being carted away into camps.

religion is for the weak minded. its my job to prove it to you. :1orglaugh

The Demon 01-26-2011 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 17871337)
religion is for the weak minded. its my job to prove it to you. :1orglaugh
What you've proven is that religious people are glad to have religion in their lives, otherwise they'd be as stupid as you. Great job on that post, I'll have a little kid dissect it in no time:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

JFK 01-26-2011 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm bradley (Post 17869637)
before or after the second coming of Jesus Christ?
He hasnt cum yet, just breathing hard:pimp

12clicks 01-26-2011 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm bradley (Post 17870682)
is it the steroids? small penis? do you have to try and belittle everyone all the time?
No, loser. Im simply replying to your response to me. Act like an adult and ill treat you like one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm bradley (Post 17870682)
fundamental Christianity and Judaism will stop scientific advances just as fast as Islam. think 'stem cell research'
Sure kid, all those Jewish doctors shouting down stem cell research :1orglaugh
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm bradley (Post 17870682)
'the sun revolves around the moon' the earth is six thousand years old' 'man was created by a mythological being from dirt' etc etc etc...
please son, you're talking about the ultra fringe. You have no argument.
I'm sorry that a priest touched you inappropriately as a youth but you expose yourself as agenda driven not fact driven

12clicks 01-26-2011 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan G (Post 17870875)
Ahh right because Christianity has never caused harm. Oh wait I see, as long as its not affected you. Tell that to the thousands of children that have been abused by priests.
You could have said no to your priest. You didn't.
Oh well.

12clicks 01-26-2011 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan G (Post 17870994)
Did hitler not kill people because they were JEWISH, last time i looked that was a religion.
I fess they don't teach history in canada

Bryan G 01-26-2011 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 17871442)
You could have said no to your priest. You didn't.
Oh well.
I'd have to believe in the magically man in the sky to have even gone to see a priest.

Sorry that I don't believe in fairytales.

wig 01-26-2011 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 17871253)
There are things in the Torah that have explanations in separate books...
Agreed. I think it is a testament to the evolution of religion -- which stems from progress in human moral reasoning -- the result of which is that certain aspects of earlier religious texts and traditions are either expanded on, explained later in nuanced terms or even discarded/rejected.

Of course, this is suggestive of the whole enterprise as a human invention, IMO. In fact, it resembles Kolberg's stages of moral development just at the national level.

Quote:
...and there are things, events that you would take literally. The flood is a literal event, and one that has been researched for a while. Evidence exists that it did in fact happen. The popular belief was that it was a volcano and then a tsunami...
I'm sure there was such an event -- at a regional level -- that inspired the story. In fact, I pointed out once before the Epic of Gilgamesh which is the likely source for the biblical Flood story.

In any event, it does not support a world wide flood as described in Genesis. Noah and his family were not the sole humans left on earth, they did not have an Ark full of all the remaining animals, etc. IOW, most of the story is bunk even if it is partly based on a real event (ca. 2700 BC) that most scholars believe predates biblical Israel.

Quote:
Do I know why Moses did what he did? Does the Torah specifically state that God commanded Moses to destroy the Midianites because of what they were doing? I think so but that's something I'd have to ask a Rabbi. I can't give you an answer until then but I doubt it's the same thing as modern rationalizations using God.
I don't know what the difference would be. People have used bad reasons to do stupid and immoral things throughout recorded history. 'Thus saith the Lord' does not change the moral implication of an act or the rationalization regardless of whether it is used in modern times or in the Bronze age.

Quote:
Find me one and I can give you an explanation of that rule/law/rationalization.
I'm not sure what you are asking for.

The Demon 01-26-2011 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wig (Post 17871520)
Agreed. I think it is a testament to the evolution of religion -- which stems from progress in human moral reasoning -- the result of which is that certain aspects of earlier religious texts and traditions are either expanded on, explained later in nuanced terms or even discarded/rejected.

Of course, this is suggestive of the whole enterprise as a human invention, IMO. In fact, it resembles Kolberg's stages of moral development just at the national level.



I'm sure there was such an event -- at a regional level -- that inspired the story. In fact, I pointed out once before the Epic of Gilgamesh which is the likely source for the biblical Flood story.

In any event, it does not support a world wide flood as described in Genesis. Noah and his family were not the sole humans left on earth, they did not have an Ark full of all the remaining animals, etc. IOW, most of the story is bunk even if it is partly based on a real event (ca. 2700 BC) that most scholars believe predates biblical Israel.



I don't know what the difference would be. People have used bad reasons to do stupid and immoral things throughout recorded history. 'Thus saith the Lord' does not change the moral implication of an act or the rationalization regardless of whether it is used in modern times or in the Bronze age.



I'm not sure what you are asking for.
Good,insightful post. I agree with most of it. Let me get back to you on the Flood issue.

On the rationalization issue, I'm simply stating that certain things can be taken literally and other things can't. Some of it is common sense, some of it is explanations. There's an oral torah, and a written torah.

Grapesoda 01-26-2011 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 17871423)
No, loser. Im simply replying to your response to me. Act like an adult and ill treat you like one.

Sure kid, all those Jewish doctors shouting down stem cell research :1orglaugh

please son, you're talking about the ultra fringe. You have no argument.
I'm sorry that a priest touched you inappropriately as a youth but you expose yourself as agenda driven not fact driven
usually when you are a called out as dumb fuck on these boards I don't say much because it's usually stuff that I don't know much about... like webmaster bullshit.. this time though... you're a dumb fuck ... :thumbsup:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

mrgica 01-26-2011 04:09 PM
hardly...

closer 01-26-2011 04:15 PM
ah ... another religion thread, just what GFY needed

SmokeyTheBear 01-26-2011 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 17870596)
your opinion of me is an indicator of why you've never been more than an off again on again unemployed 70yr old. script kiddie
aww did i hurt 12clicks feelings ?

like i care what a washed up scumbag like yourself hanging on my nutsack thinks :) :2 cents:

wig 01-26-2011 04:46 PM
For what it's worth, according to a Gallup poll in December 2010:

40% of Americans believe that God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so.

Source


Other polls support this %. This belief has been trending slightly lower over the last couple decades, but is still alarmingly high, IMO.

12clicks 01-26-2011 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm bradley (Post 17871638)
usually when you are a called out as dumb fuck on these boards I don't say much because it's usually stuff that I don't know much about... like webmaster bullshit.. this time though... you're a dumb fuck ... :thumbsup:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
No, shit stain, you know nothing this time either. :winkwink:

fatfoo 01-26-2011 07:07 PM
I think that there will always be atheists in this world that don't believe in any god.

raven1083 01-27-2011 12:50 AM
not i guess

CPA37710T 01-27-2011 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy (Post 17869633)
Unfortunately, yes...
i doubt it

BlackCrayon 01-27-2011 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 17871368)
What you've proven is that religious people are glad to have religion in their lives, otherwise they'd be as stupid as you. Great job on that post, I'll have a little kid dissect it in no time:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
i fucked that post up because i was in a hurry. it was supposed to say its not my job to prove it to you. anyways, i have no problems with people believing what they want. i just don't buy it personally. i am not going to base my life on some old stories. i live on the basis of common sense and treating people right. something religion often does not. religion also does not promote evolution of thought. something i just can't support as a logical person.

As for my stupidty. Yeah, I can do/say some stupid things but a quick google search shows many articles stating that religious people typically have lower iqs than others.

The Demon 01-27-2011 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 17872636)
i fucked that post up because i was in a hurry. it was supposed to say its not my job to prove it to you. anyways, i have no problems with people believing what they want. i just don't buy it personally. i am not going to base my life on some old stories. i live on the basis of common sense and treating people right. something religion often does not. religion also does not promote evolution of thought. something i just can't support as a logical person.
99% of people don't have common sense, and know what's right based on what their parents told them, which is based on what their parents told them, and so on, as well as bic tenants of the 10 commandments. And if you really have no problems with people believing what they want, you would have started your premises with "I believe", instead of "whatever you think, God doesn't exist, etc."

Quote:
As for my stupidty. Yeah, I can do/say some stupid things but a quick google search shows many articles stating that religious people typically have lower iqs than others.
Rofl... Great. You'll find one or two articles saying that, and I'll find one or two saying that religious people have higher IQs than non religious people. It proves absolutely nothing.

DAMNMAN 01-27-2011 06:50 AM
Already has!!!! AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN usually after they kill the rest of us.

BlackCrayon 01-27-2011 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 17872662)
99% of people don't have common sense, and know what's right based on what their parents told them, which is based on what their parents told them, and so on, as well as bic tenants of the 10 commandments. And if you really have no problems with people believing what they want, you would have started your premises with "I believe", instead of "whatever you think, God doesn't exist, etc."



Rofl... Great. You'll find one or two articles saying that, and I'll find one or two saying that religious people have higher IQs than non religious people. It proves absolutely nothing.
I don't believe I ever said god doesn't exist. I usually would say something like if there is a god or if there isn't. Anyways, it seems to me that those cultures that are the most religious often lack the most common sense. Just look at the exploding muslims or fanatical bombing christians, IRA, etc. Where is the common sense there? Of course those are the extremists but where is the line drawn?

If the average everyday person uses religion to simply feel better about life and do good things then thats fine. I personally don't understand why they need faith to achieve that but not everyone is the same. I wish people didn't need the idea of getting into heaven as a means to be a good person. It seems pretty selfish.

In my opinion people should practice more personal faith, believe in themselves instead of thinking god did this or that for them. Move away from corrupt organized religion.

Fabien 01-27-2011 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan G (Post 17870875)
Ahh right because Christianity has never caused harm. Oh wait I see, as long as its not affected you. Tell that to the thousands of children that have been abused by priests.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
and don't forget that people were killed for saying that the earth was round :upsidedow
Don't we all love religions:repuke

CaptainHowdy 01-27-2011 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPA37710T (Post 17872418)
i doubt it
Let's wait and see...

czarina 01-27-2011 08:18 AM
people used to be more religious and fanatic before. In most countries the population is much less religious nowadays, and that'll spread. In 1000 years most likely religion will be dead. Praise the lord! :P

12clicks 01-27-2011 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 17871690)
aww did i hurt 12clicks feelings ?

like i care what a washed up scumbag like yourself hanging on my nutsack thinks :) :2 cents:
Truth hurts, eh, troll? :1orglaugh

The Demon 01-27-2011 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by czarina (Post 17872823)
people used to be more religious and fanatic before. In most countries the population is much less religious nowadays, and that'll spread. In 1000 years most likely religion will be dead. Praise the lord! :P
Trying to rationalize again?

Grapesoda 01-27-2011 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 17871902)
No, shit stain, you know nothing this time either. :winkwink:
np, pretty sure I'll starve to death before I figure it out... :1orglaugh

Grapesoda 01-27-2011 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by czarina (Post 17872823)
people used to be more religious and fanatic before. In most countries the population is much less religious nowadays, and that'll spread. In 1000 years most likely religion will be dead. Praise the lord! :P
the issue being that the non religious have a much lower birth rate. that was the direction the video I posted was going...


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