Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17895795)

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolph Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 17895812)

Guns would not have changed the course of history the slightest bit.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17895829)

Safe to say, but you can't be sure

It was the founding fathers that put the second amendment in place to keep people like Hilter from happening, thats why liberals are always trying to take them away, I add that I won't force them to buy guns, leave mine alone.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17895787)

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 17895870)

so Hitler was a liberal?

Originally Posted by moeloubani (Post 17895898)

Still funny how all you idiots think.

Waging war against the United States (which by the way is the GOVERNMENT and not the PEOPLE) is treason.

You have your weapons, but you can't use them to fight your government or you would be committing treason. Your point of view doesn't matter - if you shoot a US government official because you believe what you are doing isn't right, you are committing treason.

AMERICANS DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAKE UP ARMS AGAINST THEIR GOVERNMENT.

Stop believing that you do. You have the right to bear arms. That is all; not the right to use them against the government.

Once you do that you are a traitor.

The only way for Americans to have a legal revolution is without the use of violence or force, even if the government uses violence or force. Remember, the government is allowed to use force to make you conform to their ways, you aren't allowed to use force otherwise.

So are you guys calling that Jared Loughner guy just someone that was mad at his government?

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy (Post 17895904)

The only thing you end up learning on this threads is that SallyRand is a dangerous individual...

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17895915)

His views on guns were

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 17895923)

your view on this world is so screwed, i rest in my case

Originally Posted by mynameisjim (Post 17892251)

Why would the U.S. military fight citizens? Assuming there is an uprising, it means that conditions in America for the average person have been getting worse and worse. The military is made up primarily of middle and lower economic class people, there is a good chance the military would side with citizens.

Originally Posted by moeloubani (Post 17892092)

Lol @ the people who think the second amendment means anything

Sure you can own a gun, go ahead and try to point it at a government official. Now you're going to jail.

Waging war against the United States is treason, it's laid out very clearly in your constitution. So in Canada where we don't all have guns it's not like we're doing anything more illegal than Americans if we get guns to use against the government. Guns for citizens is just a way to keep Americans afraid of EACH OTHER so they don't unite, and this kind of thing doesn't happen.

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 17893967)

But first you have to take away their iPods, iPhones, iPads, smart phones, laptops, gym memberships, yoga classes, Starbucks, credit cards, SUVs, Sushi, cable television, low fat food, a lot more of their freedoms, and a million other things... you get the point.

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 17893967)

It's gonna be a long time before anything like that happens in the USA. Gonna have to birth a new generation in poverty and leave them with no hope, no future and very little freedom, if any.

Originally Posted by moeloubani (Post 17895970)

The moment you pick up a gun and fight against the government, remember you are no longer a civilians.

You are an enemy combatant and a traitor to the United States. That's when the US military will open fire on you.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17895915)

She's educated about what the founding fathers wanted for the country, so according to the liberal agenda, I guess she is!

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17896041)

and your reply is totally out of context..

Hitler was appointed Chancellor under President Hindenburg on January 30, 1933. Hitler was never actually elected, but he did take power legally under the laws of the then-Weimar Republic when Preside Hindenburg died in 1934.

Before that Hitler ran for President but lost due to the communist party pulled away a lot of the vote. Until Hitler was appointed Chancellor, the Nazis never held any actual majority in the government or the parliament. Also, in 1934 Hitler carried out a series of political executions that killed the leaders of any military backed political parties ie., the brownshirts.

Finally, it was forbidden for German populace to own military grade rifles due to the First World War armistice Germany had to sign when they lost.

The German people knew in 1943 Hitler was crazy when he turned his back on 800k troops in Stalingrad NOT 1945.

...it's odd an American has to educated a German about their own history.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17895664)

Some times

the posters make me think, "What world do these guys live in?"

The Army has trained killers, it takes more than a gun to kill people go do some research.

They have people who know how to wage war.

The Army has more sophisticated weapons than will ever get into the hands of the general public, unless you have a Stealth Fighter in your garage and a company of M1 Abrams also. :1orglaugh

The army works as one, not like the masses.

The last time US citizens kicked a trained armies ass. It was when GB was fighting France and Spain and America was a long sea journey away. Even then they found it tough. And they had similar weapons.

I live in the past, but not that far back. :1orglaugh

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17896041)

...it's odd an American has to educated a German about their own history.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17896041)

and your reply is totally out of context..

Hitler was appointed Chancellor under President Hindenburg on January 30, 1933. Hitler was never actually elected, but he did take power legally under the laws of the then-Weimar Republic when Preside Hindenburg died in 1934.

Before that Hitler ran for President but lost due to the communist party pulled away a lot of the vote. Until Hitler was appointed Chancellor, the Nazis never held any actual majority in the government or the parliament. Also, in 1934 Hitler carried out a series of political executions that killed the leaders of any military backed political parties ie., the brownshirts.

Finally, it was forbidden for German populace to own military grade rifles due to the First World War armistice Germany had to sign when they lost.

The German people knew in 1943 Hitler was crazy when he turned his back on 800k troops in Stalingrad NOT 1945.

...it's odd an American has to educated a German about their own history.

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 17895923)

your view on this world is so screwed, i rest in my case

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17896011)

Not according the founding fathers that put the 2nd ammendment in place, please stop proving that your education doesn't go past the 9th grade!

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 17896098)

and thats why i think the second amendment is meant in a good way, but useless in reality. because there will be no hordes of armed civilians that start shooting at the police, the army, the national guard or who else the government comes up with.

Originally Posted by moeloubani (Post 17896142)

I'm sorry I thought Jared Loughner was just put in jail for shooting a government official he felt was corrupt. Or was he released because of his 2nd amendment right?

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17896102)

yes, but this information is in our lifetime not a few hundred years ago.:2 cents:

Anyway, I agree with you on how American history has been rewritten and how it tends to downplay a lot of key factors. Like how the French are rarely mentioned in our history when in fact, their role was key on how we became a country. In shot, they trained/armed a bunch of bushwhacking farmers how to become a military force that took on the best military in the world and won. Meaning, the vast majority of Americans don't even know if it were not for France we'd probably be like Canada today.

... or my favorite.

The Civil war

When Richmond fell to Union troops, Robert E. Lee led his army of Northern Virginia in retreat to the West pursued by Grant and the Army of the Potomac. He could have easily turned his army into a guerrilla fighting force and prolonged the war for decades, but he chose the highroad and surrendered for the betterment of the country. In short, he knew he lost and stepped up understanding it will form a more perfect union.

This guy is a true American hero founder and you rarely hear anything positive about him.

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 17896098)

and thats why i think the second amendment is meant in a good way, but useless in reality. because there will be no hordes of armed civilians that start shooting at the police, the army, the national guard or who else the government comes up with.

if someone likes weapons as a sport - so be it. for personal protection cause you live in a rural area - so be it. for hunting - so be it. i don't understand the fascination, but i am sure many don't understand my fascination for old cars.

I just can't understand people that stack up ammunition and guns cause they think they need it to prevent some kind of evil dictatorship.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17896041)

Hitler was appointed Chancellor under President Hindenburg on January 30, 1933. Hitler was never actually elected, but he did take power legally under the laws of the then-Weimar Republic when Preside Hindenburg died in 1934.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17896041)

Before that Hitler ran for President but lost due to the communist party pulled away a lot of the vote. Until Hitler was appointed Chancellor, the Nazis never held any actual majority in the government or the parliament.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17896041)

Also, in 1934 Hitler carried out a series of political executions that killed the leaders of any military backed political parties ie., the brownshirts.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17896041)

Finally, it was forbidden for German populace to own military grade rifles due to the First World War armistice Germany had to sign when they lost.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17896236)

Wrong. On April 12, 1928, five years before Hitler seized power, Germany passed the Law on Firearms and Ammunition. This law substantially tightened restrictions on gun ownership to curb street violence between Nazis and Communists. It was not until March 18, 1938 -- five years after Hitler came to power -- that the Nazis passed the German Weapons Law, their first known change in the firearm code.

Originally Posted by GregE (Post 17896209)

Hitler was elected in the sense that the Nazi party was by then the largest single party in the German parliament and, in a parliamentary democracy, that's the way it works.

In truth, Hindenburg only appointed Hitler after appointing the leaders of each and every one of the other German parties (except for the communists), all of whom failed dismally.




Never a majority, but by 1932 they were the largest individual party in parliament.




The German army didn't back the brownshirts, they feared them. They feared them because the brownshirt's commander wanted to replace the army with his own people. Hitler disposed of the brownshirt leadership to appease the army and also because he recognized that a loyal army would serve his purposes better.




Germany was swimming in rifles, and machine guns too, in the post WWI years. The army distributed them freely to the dozens of homegrown militias that sprang up immediately after the war. They did so for the purpose of defending Germany's eastern frontier from land grab raids by the Poles and Lithuanians, a task they themselves were forbidden to undertake by the victorious western powers.

The frontier skirmishes eventually came to an end but the guns remained in general circulation.

On the day Hindenburg appointed Hitler Chancellor those guns remained silent because the German people, like Hindenburg, saw Hitler as their last best hope.

MaDalton was correct when he said this wasn't about an unarmed citizenry.

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 17895634)

The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in Egypt is 1.9 million

In Egypt, carrying a firearm in plain view in a public place is allowed without a permit

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 17896307)

Everybody sidetracked the original post to argue the second ammendment.

But getting back to the OP...what you said is what I thought too.

Every piece of news footage I see from the Middle East always has thousands of guys wearing hoods and carrying submachine guns. I've never seen anything like that here in the U.S.

I know that if I even tried to walk down the street with a hood and a gun, the cops would shoot me dead.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 17896307)

Everybody sidetracked the original post to argue the second ammendment.

But getting back to the OP...what you said is what I thought too.

Every piece of news footage I see from the Middle East always has thousands of guys wearing hoods and carrying submachine guns. I've never seen anything like that here in the U.S.

I know that if I even tried to walk down the street with a hood and a gun, the cops would shoot me dead.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17896322)

I saw a little of that during the LA riots, ended up with a bullet hole in my Camaro. The security guard at our building got jacked for his gun. People living in the apartments were policing the area to protect ourselves. I was walking around with a shotgun, remy 870 in the parking lot.
So yes, we can see that stuff go on here in the US.

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn (Post 17893718)

qft, thank you for posting that... people these days have a twisted view of what this government was setup to do and how it was supposed to function...

Can't say I blame them though as the government has slowly been usurping freedom and rights away from citizens for a good deal of time now... They've realized that as long as X% won't be up in arms about stripping away any given right, they can just slide the bill right through...

It has never been so evident as of late though... Most peoples' reaction to the clove / flavored cigarette ban is; I don't smoke so I don't really care. Their reaction to the ban on incandescent light bulbs is; I use CFLs already, so I don't really care. I always wear my seatbelt, so I don't really care. Even if they do care it's usually; I can't do anything about it so...

These acts of government strip rights away from people, regardless if you use that right or not and they only work one way... Let's give the amount of freedoms stripped from Americans some arbitrary number.... 10,000 and say the government passes 50 new freedom restricting bills per month (this is only for illustrative purposes).

10,000 + 50 + 50 + 50 + 50 + 50 + 50 + 50 ...

You get my point, there is no reversing this process and with each one of these bills new czars get appointed to oversee them, more staff is hired to manage them and report on them, and what do they result in? More taxes needed...

Unless a drastic change in policy and philosophy occurs we're headed towards a police/nanny state with super high taxes...

I blame it on the collectivist mentality so heavily ingrained in Republicrat agenda. THEY know what's best for EVERYONE and they're willing to force everyone into that path via taxation and legislation.

Once upon a time we had the greatest system of government on the planet. One whose sole purpose was to protect the inalienable rights of every citizen. That is not the case any more....

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 17896337)

Also having a gun and having the balls to pull the trigger are two different stories. Its easy to say i would shoot people sitting in your safe warm home.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17895795)

You're the ignorant troll that thinks todays military would open fire on US citizens? Maybe Canadian, but not US.

But I see you believe like these people


"Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
Sara Brady
Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum
The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.



"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolph Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933

Originally Posted by uno (Post 17896433)

Sorry man, I'm calling Godwin's on you. I haven't read the rest of the thread, but if no one else mentioned it, FIRST!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Originally Posted by alf6300 (Post 17896470)

I did read the entire thread, and I do confirm that you are indeed the first to invoke the all-powerful law. You have my gratitude :-)

Btw, I was thinking the other day that it would be healthy to extend Godwin to offline debates. It's fun to see how many pundits running out of rhetorical ammunition end up resorting to the cheap nazi comparison.

(Want to prove that smoking is good? Just mention that Hitler was a non-smoker. Hate pets? Just point out that Hitler was a dog lover.)

Originally Posted by uno (Post 17896503)

I use it IRL debates all the time. Unfortunately, most people usually have no clue what I'm referring to.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 17892237)

The other night we were watching this on TV and I said "How barbaric". My wife said "That's only because they don't have guns".

Exactly. We can have all of the guns in the world, but that's not going to stop the US military. Our little guns won't be stopping a tank when it rolls down Main Street USA.

Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 17892226)

Bullshit. A bunch of hillbillies and their deer rifles are not a match for the US armed forces. And if you think they are then that's disrespecting our men and women in the armed forces. So are you for the troops or against them?

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 17893850)

You are absolutely right. Think again if you think the US Military would follow orders to harm US Citizens.

Every person in uniform took an oath when we served.

Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 17892245)

Exactly even back in the 1860's when the hillbillies were evenly armed with the US Army THEY STILL LOST. In the last 150 years the difference in fire power between the armed forces and the average American has grown exponentially. And inbred redneck keeping guns thinking they are going to prevent the government for taking over if they became "evil" is an idiot. They'll be the first to be killed or taken to "re-education" camp.

Originally Posted by moeloubani (Post 17895970)

The moment you pick up a gun and fight against the government, remember you are no longer a civilians.

You are an enemy combatant and a traitor to the United States. That's when the US military will open fire on you.