what a mess the middle east is.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

Thank you for your kind post and glad you got the point precisely.

Although the Declartion lacks the force of law in our Republic and we here in the USA live in a Republic, NOT a democracy; that whole "democracy" thing being a myth which began to be promulgated during the FDR administration, the Declartion clearly shows the Founding Father's thoughts prior to enactment of the Constitution.

sort of like, "OK, we have the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to revolt and change the government if that government becomes oppressive so we are enacting this Constitution but remember, those of who you will hold future elecetive and administrative office, if you fuck it up, please see the Declaration!

http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/a...ignore_400.jpg

On Treason in The Constitution:

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/t103.htm

"The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court."

It will be noted that revolution is not "making war" against the states.

Secession is even legal in the USA according to the Supreme court:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20041124.html

Attempts at or aspirations of secession from the United States have been a feature of the country's politics since its birth. Some have argued for a constitutional right of secession and others for a natural right of revolution. The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...dsden-flag.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3...ad_on_me_3.jpg

http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/a...damendment.jpg

The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in Egypt is 1.9 million

In Egypt, carrying a firearm in plain view in a public place is allowed without a permit

Some times the posters make me think, "What world do these guys live in?"

The Army has trained killers, it takes more than a gun to kill people go do some research.

They have people who know how to wage war.

The Army has more sophisticated weapons than will ever get into the hands of the general public, unless you have a Stealth Fighter in your garage and a company of M1 Abrams also. :1orglaugh

The army works as one, not like the masses.

The last time US citizens kicked a trained armies ass. It was when GB was fighting France and Spain and America was a long sea journey away. Even then they found it tough. And they had similar weapons.

I live in the past, but not that far back. :1orglaugh

Imagine a scenario where all or even a vast majority of the citizens revolt. Maybe if the Government forced legislation that closed MacDees and made Americans slim down it could happen.

The Taliban are losing men left right and center, they have a driving will that few Americans can even comprehend.

The "Insurgents" would soon go home when they found they couldn't get enough food or power for their TVs. :1orglaugh

Seriously some of you live in the fantasy world. Go think it through. Armies rarely go against the ruling powers, because the ruling powers are the ruling powers. And look after the army.

The winners are Revolutionaries, the losers are shot as terrorists or treason.

The US Army has a lot of these.

http://img.wallpaperstock.net:81/us-...9_1024x768.jpg

And these.

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.co...A2_TUSK_lg.jpg

And the populace has lots of these with guns.

http://mishkanyc.com/bloglin/wp-cont...4/bro_guns.jpg

Dream on guys. :1orglaugh

The 2nd Amendment doesn't come into it if you lose. But it was nice to dream about it for a little while. :thumbsup

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson

You're the ignorant troll that thinks todays military would open fire on US citizens? Maybe Canadian, but not US.

But I see you believe like these people


"Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
Sara Brady
Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum
The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.



"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolph Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933

different region bombs are more popular lol.

i read this every now and then in these threads and you people fail to understand how stupid this quote is in this context.

those few who really opposed Hitler had access to guns and a few tried to kill him but failed. he was voted into his position, a high percentage of the population approved his politics and if you had a clue about german history you would know why. It took until well after 1945 when many people started to realize what monster he was and that they put a lot of guilt on their shoulders by blindly following him. Guns would not have changed the course of history the slightest bit.

Safe to say, but you can't be sure

It was the founding fathers that put the second amendment in place to keep people like Hilter from happening, thats why liberals are always trying to take them away, I add that I won't force them to buy guns, leave mine alone.


"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside ? Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

so Hitler was a liberal?

egypt is pulling off a revolution with nothing more powerful than rocks.

Still funny how all you idiots think.

Waging war against the United States (which by the way is the GOVERNMENT and not the PEOPLE) is treason.

You have your weapons, but you can't use them to fight your government or you would be committing treason. Your point of view doesn't matter - if you shoot a US government official because you believe what you are doing isn't right, you are committing treason.

AMERICANS DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAKE UP ARMS AGAINST THEIR GOVERNMENT.

Stop believing that you do. You have the right to bear arms. That is all; not the right to use them against the government.

Once you do that you are a traitor.

The only way for Americans to have a legal revolution is without the use of violence or force, even if the government uses violence or force. Remember, the government is allowed to use force to make you conform to their ways, you aren't allowed to use force otherwise.

So are you guys calling that Jared Loughner guy just someone that was mad at his government?

The only thing you end up learning on this threads is that SallyRand is a dangerous individual...

His views on guns were

Sorry, I assumed you could read, my bad

She's educated about what the founding fathers wanted for the country, so according to the liberal agenda, I guess she is!

your view on this world is so screwed, i rest in my case

I welcome a debate on it, not just giving up due to lack of evidence is not going to win the argument



is this not the liberal stance on gun control as follows?
\\
The Second Amendment does not give citizens the right to keep and bear arms, but only allows for the state to keep a militia (National Guard). Individuals do not need guns for protection; it is the role of local and federal government to protect the people through law enforcement agencies and the military.

Additional gun control laws are necessary to stop gun violence and limit the ability of criminals to obtain guns.

More guns mean more violence.\\


And is that not what Hitler envisioned?



As for liberal or conservative as a whole, he was neither, he was a Nazi
Making personal statements stifles debate, it proves nothing but that you have no facts to win with

Keep your stupid ass backwards Palestinian bullshit to yourself. You may leave the country now.

The moment you pick up a gun and fight against the government, remember you are no longer a civilians.

You are an enemy combatant and a traitor to the United States. That's when the US military will open fire on you.

yeah give them weapon like in afgan and star a war

Do you know how many people are unemployed or underemployed nowadays? Do you know how many people are getting foreclosed on? Thrown out of their own fucking houses for crying out loud. Those are people who don't have any of that stuff anymore and if they do they don't have anything to plug it into.


A suddenly impoverished people who were accustomed to a comfortable middle class lifestyle can make for a dangerously angry populace.

More dangerous even than those who've never tasted prosperity.

Kind of like what happened in Germany in the 20's and 30's.
.

Not according the founding fathers that put the 2nd ammendment in place, please stop proving that your education doesn't go past the 9th grade!

Not that I mind that, of course...

That is the story I heard too. History = His Story . . . maybe theirs is written differently than ours. :2 cents:

hitler had a mustache. therefore all people with a mustache are nazis.

Another fool. And you sir are old enough to know better.
Why do you and GatorB think that the military is somekind of self contained unit of aliens. They are made up of citizens, there are many ex-military among the citizens, they are recruited from the citizens, their family members are citizens.
This is not some fantasy "a" vs "b" measuring contest of fighting powers.

"The Army has trained killers, it takes more than a gun to kill people go do some research." No that is the point, that is all it takes. All men fear a bullit.
"God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal."

"They have people who know how to wage war."
The total numbers of actual "killers" in the military is very small, there are more retired members with this "secret knowledge" you imply in the citizenry.

"sophisticated weapons" HAHA. How many times has this been used in the past and
proven false? The crusades? Vietnam? Afghanistan? The battle of Endor? :)

"The army works as one, not like the masses."

Are you serious. In this scenario you believe that? To foolish to answer directly.

You may live in the past, but you have learned nothing from it.

Maybe their history got rewritten, some of the US history got rewritten, like the Mayflower was held that it landed on Plymouth Rock to escape religious persecution, when in fact according to the ships log, they ran out of beer!

trust me, i know plenty about the history of my country. but that was not the point here and nothing you said has to do with my point either - which was that even if every german had a gun in his house at that time, not the slightest thing would have happened differently. there would have been no revolution, there would have been no jewish resistance and the war, the KZs and everything else would have happened exactly the same way as it did. that's my point.

and thats why i think the second amendment is meant in a good way, but useless in reality. because there will be no hordes of armed civilians that start shooting at the police, the army, the national guard or who else the government comes up with.

if someone likes weapons as a sport - so be it. for personal protection cause you live in a rural area - so be it. for hunting - so be it. i don't understand the fascination, but i am sure many don't understand my fascination for old cars.

I just can't understand people that stack up ammunition and guns cause they think they need it to prevent some kind of evil dictatorship.

You make up a bunch of bullshit and rest your case? No wonder you're a moron.

I'm sorry I thought Jared Loughner was just put in jail for shooting a government official he felt was corrupt. Or was he released because of his 2nd amendment right?

The people that would be shooting against the civilians are people like you Vendzilla who aren't smart enough to think for themselves. When the military orders come in, are you going to be the first one to disobey the order? Or will you follow your superior's order no matter what?

Face it - your whole idea of freedom is a farce. Whatever principles and ideas your country may have been founded on have been twisted and perverted so much that even dummies like you should realize it. But America's dick is way, way too far down your throat for you to even begin to realize what is really going on.

So you are convinced you are right until a revolution comes. If one never comes then you are correct?

:1orglaugh Trolling or you think that is a legit argument?

I had a great history teacher in high school that loved facts like that and we were tested, he had a lot of fun teaching the civil war, one of his favorites. He went over the whole battle plan and the aftermath of how the North treated the southern soldiers after the war.
In the early days of US history, our history was re written a lot to keep our young interested in the achievements of our country. When the settlers left England, they didn't want to teach them about Robin Hood and King Arthur. What we were told in school about thanksgiving has a lot of wholes in it too. Wasn't even really celebrated as it is now till Lincoln was in office.

Everytime a liberal gets in office, ammo and gun sales go up

Last two democrat presidents did great things for getting people to buy guns, why both had such bad midterms

Preventing an evil dictatorship is not why people want to hang on to their guns. And if you don't care for them, it is hardly a reason to take then from people that do care for them.

Hitler was elected in the sense that the Nazi party was by then the largest single party in the German parliament and, in a parliamentary democracy, that's the way it works.

In truth, Hindenburg only appointed Hitler after appointing the leaders of each and every one of the other German parties (except for the communists), all of whom failed dismally.


Never a majority, but by 1932 they were the largest individual party in parliament.


The German army didn't back the brownshirts, they feared them. They feared them because the brownshirt's commander wanted to replace the army with his own people. Hitler disposed of the brownshirt leadership to appease the army and also because he recognized that a loyal army would serve his purposes better.


Germany was swimming in rifles, and machine guns too, in the post WWI years. The army distributed them freely to the dozens of homegrown militias that sprang up immediately after the war. They did so for the purpose of defending Germany's eastern frontier from land grab raids by the Poles and Lithuanians, a task they themselves were forbidden to undertake by the victorious western powers.

The frontier skirmishes eventually came to an end but the guns remained in general circulation.

On the day Hindenburg appointed Hitler Chancellor those guns remained silent because the German people, like Hindenburg, saw Hitler as their last best hope.

MaDalton was correct when he said this wasn't about an unarmed citizenry.

But how many of those guns did the Pre-Hitler government actually manage to confiscate?

I would guess no more than a similarly inclined American government would net ;)

Just unarmed jews?