50 martyrs.

Depends on what you definition of religion is. If your definition needs a "god" figure, then you are correct. If you define religion as a belief system or the search for transcendence, then you would be wrong. Some would argue Buddhism is a religion for atheists.

Where I live it's predominately Buddhists. I can say without question that this region of the world does not look at Buddhism simply as a philosophy. It is a religion here.

I don't disagree with you about there being a problem, but that doesn't answer the question now does it? What does that have to do with religion? There is nothing in the bible (from what i recall) saying pedophilia is an accepted practice. If they would just man up and remove these monsters it fixes the problem. Removing the religion doesn't make them any less a monster right? They would be doing this in some other form I'm sure.

Looks like a good read. Impossible to get here, but I'll keep my eyes open for it when I'm back stateside. Thanks.

Check this one out: A Glorious Accident

It's a long read but fascinating.

Does the bible comment on pedophilia either way? I've tried to read it but only made it about 1/4 way through. Just can't finish it.

I think these monsters just like to hide behind the church. Seems like the perfect place for a pedophiles to hide.

I agree with what you're saying, but classifying it as a religion defeats the purpose of the teachings.

Religion is inherently evil because it involves abandoning reason and believing in whatever makes you feel good, or else whatever you've been brainwashed into believing.

The problem is that atheism and humanism have become religions themselves. They have their sacred beliefs (political correctness) andanyone who questions them is branded heretical. They have the same irrational belief in progress as do Christians.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that the Pope quote was taken out of context. But never let reason get in the way of an atheist trying to prove that the Pope is the anti-christ.

The Scandinavian countries have a very low percentage of religious believers yet they don't experience the chaos and and crime that you suggest would follow without said belief.

Which is fine, but it is NOT because it lessens chaos and crime, which is why I asked how you would explain the fact that the Scandinavian countries have comparatively little.


Fair enough. I agree with you -- some people would be lost; not all.

Like where? the Middle East? I would argue it would be much better if you could take away the stranglehold religion has in these regions.

If you want to argue that theocratic governments or theocratic rule has a better track record than liberal democracies, you have your work cut out for you to illustrate this.

Because "brilliant" suggests that it was concocted with no antecedents. I gave the possible explanation that it was evolutionary beneficial (or a by-product of such). I'm not prepared to give people who were confused about lightening bolts and earth quakes and disease that much credit.

This is a hilarious read which proves you have a first grade understanding of anything. So you don't like religion, and therefore anything that's bad and doesn't really look like religion, is also religion? You have a funny way of rationalizating in the absence of facts. Sorry but secularism isn't "like a religion". Not even close. I love how you preach reason without using any and failing to understand that most human beings do NOT have reason or common sense. You've been "brainwashed" into believing this nonsense about religion which is why you have almost no understanding of it. Because humans are inherently stupid or at least not intelligent, religion isn't the problem, humans are. Thanks for the laugh.:1orglaugh

This is going to solve what exactly? Lol. Religion isn't the main problem in the Middle East. The problem is living in an ancient age and never being able to move on because your people have been there for thousands of years and are stuck in the old ways. The Middle East didn't experience an Enlightenment, so removing one aspect isn't going to change anything.

Not sure what Marx's heritage has to do with anything. Faith and blood aren't one in the same. I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers either. However, we are talking about Stalin.
You wouldn't be close.

Early on? The Holocaust lasted the entire war lol. 6 million jews died.

First off, I think you answered your own question in your response. :winkwink:

Secondly, what I wrote was in direct response to DWB's comment about ending religion in some parts of the world wouldn't be pretty.

The problem in the middle east and many places is the divide between rich and poor is massive. Massive. The more that divide opens up anywhere, the worse things get, and we're not far from let them eat cake in many places. They're all out of cake but have torches and pitchforks.

Sorry but i have to say the otherwise.

Currently i live in Turkiye, born and razed here, even we are the most Liberalized country with Big Muslim poppulation, yet there are few people thinks that all those floods, earthquakes are due to GOD is punnishing people Who are immoral or out of way.

i never suggest that we should force people and ban from praying, but at least we should understand that Organized religion is a canser that we have to get rid of it by education.

Look at the source you are quoting.

Now go and look and a sensible paper's coverage of the same thing:

""We must ask ourselves what we can do to repair as much as possible the injustice that has occurred," he said. "We must ask ourselves what was wrong in our proclamation, in our whole way of living the Christian life."


But in his festive speech ? which he traditionally uses to impart key messages to senior Vatican figures ? he insisted the abuse scandal should be placed in a wider social context. "We cannot remain silent about the context of these times in which these events have come to light," he said, citing child pornography, "that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society."

Sexual tourism in the third world was "threatening an entire generation", he added."

He isn't saying CP is normal. He is saying it has to be stopped.

God damn, you're stupid sometimes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...-abuse-scandal

Still, you got 2 pages of people looking at your sig, so well done!

+1 :pimp

Thats why you live in a backwards ass country, to come up with logic like that.

Religion is like dancing.

Those who practice it know what it's like and have fun

Those who sit on the sidelines have the need to come up with reasons why they're like that

Oh really? Do tell.

Largely due to religious oppression.

Due mainly to religious oppression.

While I disagree with that, sadly I have to say that removing said aspect isn't an option in any case so I'm not sure why we're even discussing it.

But going with the ME example, they really are about 150 years overdue for at least some "enlightenment" as you say. I'm not holding my breath or anything but I am cautiously hopeful that these latest widespread protests throughout that part of the world will bring about at least some of that enlightenment. It won't remove their religion but it just might serve to eventually raise their standard of living and increase their rights and freedoms, things we in the decadent evil west often take for granted.


As for the main topic all I can say is I don't believe ALL organized religion is "evil", but will agree that much of it is, as much of history has shown. I don't have a problem with people having a personal spiritual belief system though. People are free to believe (or not believe) any way they want. I only take issue with it when they try to impose their beliefs (or lack thereof) onto everyone else.

In other words people, and religions, should mind their own fucking business.

God told the Jews to kill the Canaanites, he then told the Muslims to kill non believers, he then told Christians to kill Muslims. Then the killing carried on because God told them to. Hitler murdered Jews on the words from the bible written by Christians bending religion.

Then the Catholics, burned the Heretics, then the Heretics burned the Catholics.

And the saga goes on and on. The above examples are just a small part of the people killed and persecuted on the orders of God, or in the name of God. Either this God is evil, he had no problem wiping out everyone with a flood. I reckon the millions Hitler and Stalin murdered are a drop in the ocean to that. And the occupants of Sodom & Gomorrah.

As a Jew do you believe those stories and more?

Or the people who use his name are inherently evil.

As secularism is fairly modern, you can't really compare it.

Nice job Jackass.

so you believe that guns are inherently evil, as with all weapons?

How?

This is the BS they sold you over the years and you swallow it like a good little boy. Every thing we couldn't explain was put down to God. When we found out the religious just moved to another unexplained fact. Soon they will have nothing left. Some religious people believe in creation, yet it's been proved to be bullshit from the writing of ignorant people.

Some were sold the belief of put up with the bullshit now, give us money and you'll go to this mysterious place called Heaven when you die. Proof is the problem as no one has come back and told us it exists.

The line of continual bullshit goes back and back and back and all around the World and in Religions long gone.

The basic message was. Do as you're told, give us money, put up with being poor now and you'll get your reward in the afterlife.

It built the pyramids in Egypt and S. America, the Vatican and countless of cathedrals, churches and places of worship around the World. It meant religions could grab what ever they liked to get richer. Or do you fool yourself the God sent them that money?? :1orglaugh

They conned it out of hard working people. Turn on the religious TV and watch it happening today. How many of those Ministering live in the style of Christ and how many live in the style of Pontius Pilate or the Jewish priests? If the Jews killed him they only did so when he upset their money making. Never stop the flow of money to the church, it will get you in deep shit.

No if they are left in the locker. It's the people who use them who might be evil.

Religion is the people who use God as an excuse to be evil. It's the belief of the ignorant and the book these people wrote that's the tool. Bad comparison.

Be it the bible, Koran, Talmud or scratches on a cave wall.

And the debate isn't. Is Secularism is more or less evil than religion. That's for another day.

Also when it comes to child abuse the RCC isn't the only one guilty of it.

Because, according to the Jewish Bible. Pharaoh wouldn't do as he was told. Cattle didn't fair very well either.

Add that to all the other people he killed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt

Or it's all bullshit to sell the con. "Do as you're told and give us money."

A short scan through Wikipedia will give you far more examples.

Weird, in the previous post you acknowledge my Judaism.. Now somebody told me something about priests? Atheists and secularists are so incredibly ignorant and insecure that they have to spew this BS to all religious people. Hey, if you're religious, you've been brainwashed! The same retarded logic applies to moronic secularists. The rest of your post is a hilarious rant of the insane.

ROFL.. Moral and cultural relativism are what moron atheists and secularists use as an excuse to be evil. The exact same logic if we're going to use it in a retarded fashion.

You have the balls to call me dumb and then claim Jews also killed millions. None of your posts possess any substance or facts. We get it, you love to type. You don't need facts in your posts because that's not the point of your posts. You're a proven idiot.

Here's the best part of rationalizations. They're hardly ever true:)

I'm glad you have facts.. Oh wait.. Which one website did you get this hilarious bullshit from?

Sorry, I figured out where Jesus H Christ got his hilarious bullshit.

Everyone check out http://careandwashingofthebrain.blog...-murderer.html for a ball of laughs.

What was that guys name who wrote the Torah, again?

Nobody sure if he's a guy but he/she has 99 different names.:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

My regards to your Rabbi. :)

that guy is a f*cking Nazi.

so he'll condemn the use of condoms, abortions and porn, but justify child porn; unbelievable!

It's YOU I should be praying for.:thumbsup

In the absence of religion, you get something worse; relativism.

Well it's evident that not only do you not understand facts(from 1 site ROFL), but you're trying your hand at mind reading. We understand that you're not too bright, but trying to educate anybody on any history is just priceless. You can't seem to understand history (mainly because you get your history from one website), so trying to educate someone else on bullshit kinda seems pointless? But yea, I think I'm enjoying your mind reading too much. LOL@refugee visa via israel.:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

smartest post in this thread... i didn't notice where the link came from myself :)

quite a convenient mistranslation for sure.

Your prayers are welcome, but as you probably know, there have been well conducted studies on the efficacy of prayer and they don't work. :pimp

Oh sweet! Kindly direct me to these studies.:thumbsup

Mayo Clinic and John Templeton Foundation (a Christian organization mind you) are the two largest, most well conducted studies that I am aware of.

Google them.

hahahahaha just classic. You post some nonsense from 1 website which makes one reference to Yagobah without any actual facts, and you want me to counter it? I don't have to deny bullshit, that wouldn't even make sense. It's no wonder you're in the business that you are right now. It doesn't require any thought and you can justify your life choices with relativism while at the same time poking fun of the one thing that would make your life seem like a waste.:1orglaugh

You've got to do better than that. If I'm going to claim sources in an argument with someone and they ask for them, I'm not going to tell them to "look it up". That just ruins credibility.:)

And while you are researching, maybe you'd like to pick these back up?

http://gofuckyourself.com/showpost.p...9&postcount=60
http://gofuckyourself.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=92

LOL, okay...

Not sure why you want me to research the first one because after I found you several sites, you wanted something that was peer reviewed which tells me you're already convinced in your own thinking and no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise, otherwise you wouldn't specify the type of evidence.. Then again, you seem to be of the belief that "absence of proof is proof of absence".

The second link, you linked me to a gallup poll to prove your point? Not sure you understand the concept of a representative sample.

Here's the Mayo Study

Aviles JM, Whelan SE, Hernke DA, et al. (December 2001). "Intercessory prayer and cardiovascular disease progression in a coronary care unit population: a randomized controlled trial". Mayo Clinic Proceedings 76 (12): 1192?8. doi:10.4065/76.12.1192. PMID 11761499.

Congratulations, you're one of the first people on this forum to actually back up his assertion. Interesting study.. But I agree, I'm not sure why anybody would believe that prayer improves physical conditions.

I was referring to the Epic of Gilgamesh and the fact that your text and stories borrow from earlier Near East civilizations.

I had no problem accepting the possibility of a regional flood, which is what your articles were about. Worldwide flood with all the animals in an Ark... Yeah, I take issue with that belief and you have not provided any evidence for that.

Did you explain how it follows and how closely paralleled the stories are? Then again, that's like saying that "Avatar" just copied Dances With Wolves when their stories happened to be similar.

Well I wasn't trying to convince you so I didn't provide evidence of a worldwide flood, although it was a possibility. There's no evidence that it couldn't happen either so we just left it at that.

I try not to talk out of my ass. :thumbsup

I looked for the Templeton study, but have not found it, just some articles about it. I'm sure you would rather see the peer-reviewed study, so I'll keep looking.

No, I did not. I actually expected you to do your own work -- under the assumption that you are actually interested in the subject (which you said you were).

This seems like a recurring theme, though and I'm not sure how far I want to go in typing it all out for you.

However, if you really, really want me to do it... I'll do it for the Epic of Gilgamesh. :)



A world wide flood covering all landmass is not a physical possibility. I'd venture a guess that getting all the animals in existence at the time Noah supposedly existed would not fit in his Ark, either. :winkwink:

I would do my own work if the discussion required me to prove you wrong. Since it didn't, I dropped it.





I believe I gave you many links for this which you said didn't suffice, then you said you wanted only peer reviewed links.