A TUC study of company reports and returns reveals that some of the biggest banks – Lloyds TSB, RBS, HSBC and Barclays – “have between them well over 1,000 subsidiary companies incorporated in tax havens

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/43967928-e...#axzz1HmXS5HbQ

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...MEg&refer=home

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-21963186/

Not to mention the Northern Rock fiasco as well

Let's smash that window and then I will get a job!?

If the banks had not of been bailed out. The results would of been far far worse, go read about the Depression in the 30s.

The truth is banking is one of the few industries that earns enough to make it so worth keeping them in the UK they can't be penalized. Because if they moved their "investments" sides the loss to the UK economy wold be devastating. Don't forget besides Gordon's borrowing one of the things that kept him spending was the income from the banks. Not the High Street Barclay's Bank. The huge dealing rooms in the City.

Gordon Brown "invested" billions in the UK economy. By expanding up the public sector. Which produces 0 profits. The small amount they spent with the private sector was never enough and frankly if it had of been good economics. The UK would have a far better economy.

There's only one thing that fuels an economy. Profits and exports. If you need to borrow what GB borrowed to prop the system up it's not working. Investment at some point shows a benefit and profit.

The funniest thing is Ed Milliband now is telling people the cuts are too severe as a Labour Leader. While demonstrating in a march that wants 0 cuts. See Portugal, Greece and Ireland for what that means.

England is a welfare state, cuts are needed. Sure people don't want to give up their very generous handouts but sometimes you need to face facts and cut the fat.

Yes Paul the banks needed to be kept going and thats not what I am getting at. I am pissed at the lies from our goverment and the mega huge payouts which some bankers are still receiving when our econemy is in such a state. Then yesterday the goverment say they are to relax thier rules for politicians expenses. There is also a lot of the private sector firms who do rely on the public sector for contracts so cuting public sector services and jobs will have an effect on the private sector which will most prob cause more job loses. The council over here used to use a hell of a lot of sub contractors from the private sector for building, maintenance, plumbing ect. The public and private sectors work hand in hand so by cutting public sector services it is not going to save us money its going to cause more unenployment in both sectors which we as tax payers then have to prop up by paying out more doll money.

Anyways iv gotta be off to go earn myself a crust and give the other half to our corrupt goverment

The lies were first told by Brown, he was "investing" in the British economy. He was actually throwing money down the toilet.

The reality is the investment banks will move out of the UK and take their trillions with them if they want to. Look of it like this.

If an affiliate program cut it's payouts to you from 50% to 25%, would you stay with them if their conversions remained the same?

No of course not. And neither would the investment banks. The French, Germans, Japanese, Chines, Americans, Swiss, Indians and any number of any other country would be lining up offering them favorable deals.

Council spending is nice but it rarely produces a real profit. Nice roads, clean streets, etc. Businesses that produce a profit from selling something rescue economies. Businesses like investment banks. With you in charge the country would be bankrupt, 6 million would be out of work, but the UK would have nice roads. :Oh crap

Welcome to the world of real business. :thumbsup

Much of "their trillions" isn't their money, and furthermore, most of it doesn't even physically exist - they can't take it anywhere.

Banks, in effect, create money under authority of the government in a fractional reserve system through loans and other various financial activities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking

Most people have the misconception that banks lend out deposits. The reality is very different - banks can literally create new money out of nothing far exceeding the amounts of their reserves (hence, fractional reserve banking). New loans expand the money supply, and repaid / defaulted loans, shrink it...

While governments put safeguards in place in regards to how much new money can be created, derivatives and other exotic financial instruments further complicate matters.

Why should the general public have to bailout the power-elite's failed financial ventures, often involving reckless lending and sketchy derivatives. In my view, and that of many others, Iceland's approach dealing with the banks was far better ... just default and be done with it as opposed to dragging out the misery for decades

Ron

So you are saying that ALL public protests throughout history haven't achieved anything?

I imagine Emiline Pankhurst for one would take issue with that.

People demanding that the government reverse the cuts is like a dying patient demanding the nurse stop giving him his medicine because it doesn't taste very nice. Those who rely on the state for their income are just going to have to realise that the pot is empty, there is no more money. It's not going to be nice, it's not fair, but it's the way it is, and marching on Downing Street isn't going to change that.

Where did i say that ??

I said that these marches wouldn't achieve anything. And they won't.

You think the government will look at the protests and say "ah ok, people are pissed, let's not make all those cuts after all". ??


I'm afraid it will take more than retards like DVTimes "rioting" to change modern life in the UK. :1orglaugh

No they want others, who didn't cause the debt and will be the ones to pay it back, to take all the pain.

The economics understanding of some is astounding. Ron has just discovered that money isn't real. :1orglaugh

Since people started printing and minting coins it hasn't been real. Look on a Bank Note "I promise to pay the bearer."

Yes Ron it's an illusion and been one for 1,000s of years. But it's what you pay your bills with.

That would really be a disaster and to make it worse maybe they will hit investment banking and those banks will piss off.

Borrowed money is exactly that. Borrowed. Which means it needs to be paid back at some point. Did Gordon think it wouldn't be his job to pay it back. Did he think that by employing 800,000 public service workers would boost the economy. And what's the credentials of those who supported him while he was on his gigantic spending spree?

The banking crisis did no more than expose his stupidity sooner.

Paul markham & Scott McD you guys are boneheads

seriously wake the fuck up

Whole point is to put us into debt - all part of the New World Order illuminati plan.

Problem reaction solution

It's funny how we blame the government for this, when the truth is anyone who bought or sold a house in the past ten years is the only ones who are guilty, myself included. I bought a house and five years later sold it for twice what I had paid for, you just know that's some bullshit right there.

We are told Public sector does not produce anything...

Hospitals cure sick people

Fire Brigade stop fires

Infrastructure for Trade etc...

People understand these things have real value, selling "financial products" on par with casino gampling not investing to produce goods but speculation to make money no matter what the consequences for the workers or consumers. Like buy Cadbury's shutting the UK factory and opening it in Poland, fuck the workers and fuck the chocolate - just the bottom line.

Cuts the rich won't tolerate.

Trident - must have nuclear weapons so that we can sit at the big table

Foriegn Wars - got to protect " our " investments

Tax havens -

------------------

70% of UK land is owned by 1 % of the population (30% by Aristocrats !!!!!)

90% of the pop live on less than 10% of the land.

10% of the population own more than 50% of the wealth.....


If you think the West End looks rough over last night try visiting some poor districts of the UK after the cuts...

Cherry I think I said they don't produce a profit and won't pay back the debt.

You need the infrastructure kept running and running well. What you don't need is it relying on borrowing the private sector can't afford.

Yes loads of jobs came East when they joined the EU. Can you imagine what would happen if the squeeze on the rich was so sever more went?

Or do you propose a Berlin Wall type solution?

Give us the solution. Taxing the rich has been tried and it didn't work, they left even faster. Are you old enough to remember 95% income taxes?

Sure it's sad to see Cadbury go to a foreign owner but that's just business. It has nothing to do with the government and should not ever have. Maybe if our private sector was stronger, then for every British business that gets bought out we could buy one of theirs. Maybe if it wasn't so fucking expensive and such a beaurocratic nightmare to employ people in this country jobs wouldn't be getting exported to Poland.

This march certainly showed us exactly what the left means when they say the are marching for the "alternative"....... anarchist violence and the destruction of the social order and English values by a bunch of pathetic hood wearing Marxists. "Red" Ed Miliband certainly earned his moniker this time. Him and his labor thug allies are a disgrace.

Let the rich leave the sooner the better, all the bankers, the landed gentry, the monarchy, all the blood sucking parisites that got us into this mess in the first place.

Buying and selling toxic sub prime crap is the economics of the mad house.

We can't afford hospitals or fire house but can afford to fire of a 100 misiles at Libya at £1 million a pop.

We are always copying the worse things about the US, why not copy the best and get rid of the feudal class system we have here? That's why europeans went to America in the 1st place...escape the dictatorship of the rich.

Yes and if you want to know what Britain will become after that happens, you can go and live in Zimbabwe.

Paul you are wrong about the public sector not creating any real money it does in a very big way to the private sectors.

The public sector sub contract a lot of its work out to private companys like transportation, building, cleaning, land scaping, private hospitals and other healthcare just to mention a few. They play a very big role in keeping some private companys in business which in turn keep people in jobs. The more cuts the councils have to deal with the less they will sub contract out to the private sector which has a knock on effect on the economy as a whole.

This demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of basic economics. The public sector is funded by our taxes. You can't make yourself better off by paying yourself with your own money.

This demonstrates a fundamental lack of reading skills

I think everybody knows that the public sector is funded by tax payers and that is not the point I was trying to get across. The plain and simple fact is that the public sector creates £££ in the private sector. A lot of private companys depend on the public sector for work so by cutting that off it hurts our econemy even more.

The public sector does not "create £££ in the private sector". Those £££ came from the private sector in the first place. Example - employer's NI contributions. That's a tax on employment in all but name. Gordon Brown increased these several times, and now people wonder why unemployment is going up?

never mind

Yes just business. Like Online porn taking business from offline porn.

Or like buying goods made in places where it's cheaper to produce those goods. Strange how people clothed in goods made in China, Philippines, etc. Are complaining about jobs going over seas.

They keep the infrastructure running so the private sector can make the money to pay for them.

The deciding factor will always be what the private sector can produce in profits to pay for the public sector. If Gordon Brown had only been spending that amount, the UK wouldn't be facing massive debts. Like you and I we borrow money to buy something we can't afford to pay for in one go or as an investment. And we're limited to what we can repay or we go bankrupt. All parties agree there has to be cuts, the only difference is the amount of cuts and the time it will take to repay them.

That decision is often in the hands of the people loaning the money.

This demonstrates a fundamental lack of intelligance.

Gordon Brown didn't fund the public sector out of taxes. He did it by borrowing.

yeah, socialism!

If people lived in a democracy and were given the choice of keeping industry here, of full employment, good schools for everyone (not just the 5% who go to private school and take 60% of the places at Oxford and Cambridge) We would have a different society. Sadly information is controlled by a few corporations who peddle the lie that wealth is created by the rich.

All the real wealth is created by working people who farm, mine, make steel etc...

The public sector make this activity possible by collecting rubbish, curing the sick, putting out fires...

People like ENRON and financial speculators are involved in stealing. The bankers paying themselves bonuses of £10,000,000 for one year is real pornography when so many thousand people live without heating becuse they can't afford it. Now that is violence on a global scale.

"you can't simultaneously fire teachers and tomahawks"

jon stewart

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

bring Margaret Thacher back :P

LOL where do you think private sector revenue comes from?

Public sector consumers. There will be heavy job losses on both sides once Joe "Public Sector" Blogs has lost his fucking job he won't be buying any iPhones.

and shoot her...

and put her on the plynth in Trafalgar Square and we can all take turns in walking up to her and kicking the horrible fucking cunt in the head until she dies, then injecting her with some magic join links until she is revived just enough to take more and more kickings.

Then I will piss on her.

Thatcher makes Paul Markham look nice.

SSSHHHHHHHHHH.......!!!!


(nobody wants to hear that)



.

This thread is a fascinating insight into how people believe wealth and value are created...

Amazing that people think that public sector jobs, which are paid for by taxes and borrowing, actually "create" wealth or value. Look at Greece.

The only way additional wealth or value is created is when a private sector person, or group, creates a new product, or service. Wealth is not a "pie" or a zero sum game, whereby if one person has more, then others have less. Wealth is a river, the flow of which is created by new products and services being provided to a marketplace. If you drive out the producers of new products and services with high taxation and regulation, or with those taxes and regulations, take away the incentive to take the risk of starting a new business, then you will end up drying up that river and your economy will eventually collapse.



I'm sure that you will all howl against this reasoning, but anyway.... Good luck with that whole thing.



.

Actually a river is a very good analogy, water always flows along the path of least resistance, so does money. Try to dam up a river in one place and the water just finds another path, try to tax business profits too much and they just go somewhere else.

Where do you think THEIR money comes from? Out of the magic fucking money tree?