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MyBitcoin 04-06-2011 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyber (Post 18037262)
How can we be sure that bitcoin is not a botnet itself?

Easy. It's open source. You can download and review the source code.

MyBitcoin 04-06-2011 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyber (Post 18037431)
Cryptography
If I understand this right, the strength of this currency relies on the strength of the SHA-256 algorithm?

**CHOMP**

How does the mechanism work which prevents the same coin from being used twice?
Could that system be tampered with if 100 million fake nodes produce manipulated traffic?

Instead of answering your technical questions until my hands are purple, I'll let this video explain it. :)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=XQPSwA2Itbs

(Starts at 0:42:00, explained by Steve Gibson from grc.com)

Zyber 04-07-2011 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyBitcoin (Post 18038296)
Instead of answering your technical questions until my hands are purple, I'll let this video explain it. :)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=XQPSwA2Itbs

(Starts at 0:42:00, explained by Steve Gibson from grc.com)

Thanks for the video link. :thumbsup

I have watched it through and Steve Gibson explains this technically complicated system very well. It looks like a beautifully designed system - but not perfect.

Further I read the white-paper. Interesting reading. :winkwink:
http://www.bitcoin.org/sites/default/files/bitcoin.pdf

However, I did spot some weaknesses in the system design:
  1. Partially centralized system. It depends on an IRC chat room.
    Quote:

    When you download the program it connects to a IRC chat room and that is how it learns about all the other nodes, or many of the other nodes
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=XQPSwA2Itbs&t=61m08s
    (1:01:08)
  2. Trusting the integrity of bitcoin.org - a domain with contact privacy.
  3. Trusting that the compiled .exe binaries match the open source code.
  4. Single point of failure. Easy to block. The system uses port 8333. Remember the .xxx debate? :)
    Quote:

    you'd get much better connectivity if you do port-forwarding of port 8333
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=XQPSwA2Itbs&t=79m09s
    (1:19:09)
  5. System integrity gets worse over time. Depends on incentive for peers to "donate" CPU power.
    Quote:

    the way you make money is by processing transactions within the BitCoin system
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=XQPSwA2Itbs&t=49m01s
    (0:49:01)
    Quote:

    here's the deal. There will never, ever, ever be more than 21 million BitCoins created.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=XQPSwA2Itbs&t=72m30s
    (1:12:30)
    Quote:

    For the first 210.000 blocks the value is 50 BitCoins per block.
    The next 210.000 blocks it is cut to half, to 25 BitCoins per block. Etc.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=XQPSwA2Itbs&t=80m25s
    (1:20:25)
    Quote:

    creating coinage out of thin air by doing the work that makes the whole network go ... It is the work which needs to be done, the difficulty of the work that keeps bad guys from being able to spoof the system.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=XQPSwA2Itbs&t=84m0s
    (1:24:00)

To sum it up. This system appears to be a bubble designed to have a limited lifespan.

The system will become more and more unstable as it matures, and once when all 21 million BitCoins have been created, people will stop mining for more coins as there are no more rewards. Without all the CPU power previously provided by the honest nodes - the integrity of the system will fail apart and anarchy will rise.

As the system bases its trust on which ever group has the most CPU power it is vulnerable for criminals using their enormous botnets (1 million+ zombies), governments using their super computers to sabotage the network, or giants such as Google using their immense computing muscles.

As this looks like a bubble it is a question of when people will start to cash out (converting their BitCoins to real currency). Maybe that is already what is happening right now?

The original idea of this system is beautiful but I wouldn't place my savings in it. :2 cents:

Lint 04-07-2011 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyber (Post 18039205)
The system will become more and more unstable as it matures, and once when all 21 million BitCoins have been created, people will stop mining for more coins as there are no more rewards. Without all the CPU power previously provided by the honest nodes - the integrity of the system will fail apart and anarchy will rise.

Please read: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=transaction_fee

Zyber 04-07-2011 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lint (Post 18039241)

Thanks. Very interesting. :thumbsup:winkwink:

After reading this I no longer think the system integrity will get worse over time.

Then it is only the single-point-of-failures which could cause trouble later on.
If someone blocks port 8333, takes over those the IRC chat rooms, replaces the DNS records for bitcoin.org, or the actual server, etc.

A chargeback free payment system like this could be interesting :)

Which system will win, the old banking system backed by weapons, or this new one backed by cryptography? Time will show..

Emil 04-07-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyber (Post 18039205)
[*]Trusting the integrity of bitcoin.org - a domain with contact privacy.[*]Trusting that the compiled .exe binaries match the open source code.[*]Single point of failure. Easy to block. The system uses port 8333. Remember the .xxx debate? :)

If you cant trust it, just compile the binary file yourself from the source.

Why does it matter if bitcoin.org uses privacy for the domains? The source is out and the application doesn't need bitcoin.org to run.
You got the source, cant you just change the port?
If there would be a problem with ISPs blocking 8333, I dont think it would require much work before it used port 80 or some other port that they cant block.

MyBitcoin 04-08-2011 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyber (Post 18039309)
Thanks. Very interesting. :thumbsup:winkwink:
Then it is only the single-point-of-failures which could cause trouble later on.
If someone blocks port 8333, takes over those the IRC chat rooms, replaces the DNS records for bitcoin.org, or the actual server, etc.

Bitcoin doesn't need IRC. It *can* use it to seed its list of peers. I run my clients with IRC switched off. I personally think it is a stupid way to seed the client.

Also, with one click you can make Bitcoin run on top of Tor so blocking port 8333 does nothing.

Emil 04-18-2011 02:54 AM

Bitcoin.

MyBitcoin 04-22-2011 03:57 PM

The Bitcoin price has skyrocketed, due to it being in the news.

The current rate is 1 Bitcoin = $1.39 :)

Some of the news exposure includes Forbes, and a few other places. Links are below:

http://techliberation.com/2011/04/20...ation-control/

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/05...-currency.html

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...ong-term.shtml

http://digitalmedia.strategyeye.com/...form_ flattr/

http://unqualified-reservations.blog...rdization.html

MyBitcoin 04-23-2011 02:12 PM

Update: 1 Bitcoin is now $1.65 USD each now. Bitcoin is in the news almost daily now.

merina0803 04-23-2011 02:15 PM

sent to IRs tipline

rowan 04-28-2011 12:36 AM

http://thsrv.com/p/bitcoinbitchin.png

Saw this on Bing just before.

Bitchin'!

Emil 04-28-2011 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merina0803 (Post 18082032)
sent to IRs tipline

Oh noes! IRS will take down the decentralized network by DDOSing every fucking computer in the network worldwide.. Right.

Agent 488 04-28-2011 04:39 AM

very cool concept and wish you luck. going to need it.

Emil 04-28-2011 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyBitcoin (Post 18082030)
Update: 1 Bitcoin is now $1.65 USD each now. Bitcoin is in the news almost daily now.

$1.9 now, this is crazy.

rowan 04-30-2011 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emil (Post 18093106)
$1.9 now, this is crazy.

Peaked past $4 now...

I was going to buy $100 worth a couple of days ago to get my feet wet. Could have doubled my investment without doing a thing. FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU....

gir 04-30-2011 05:48 PM

anyone considering investing into bitcoin should consider this: current bitcoin price is bubble economy, completely related to bitcoin's news exposure.

real value (GPU power + electricity bill) is somewhere around $0.75 per BTC. this value will be always based on the current difficulty (essentialy the more people are generating coins, the more valuable it is).

so the only viable way to make money is to get few ati's and generate bitcoins away.
then sell it ot mtgox to speculating fools for quadruple its price.

generating is far from geeks niche anymore, you just need to invest few grand into the hardware.

as far as the security of the system goes for payments, its pretty tight and well thought out. in regards to speculation, mtgox is currently under massive DDOS, either by slashdot effect or more likely someone probably wanting to delay the bubble until he generates more coins.

secure P2P based bitcoin currency exchange is needed for speculation to be safe.

rowan 04-30-2011 06:17 PM

Would be cool if bitcoin mining involved practical use of a CPU/GPU, ie someone is actually paying real $ for crunching numbers and getting back a result. I guess that would be difficult to achieve without some sort of central authority confirming that work and releasing the value, which would go against the whole idea...

gir 04-30-2011 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowan (Post 18099132)
Would be cool if bitcoin mining involved practical use of a CPU/GPU, ie someone is actually paying real $ for crunching numbers and getting back a result.

given the fact that solving the blocks is used to ensure security of the the system, that would be the only practical use :) and considering you're paid 4x more than the power consumed it aint that bad either.

note that computing power at current difficulty lies at about 3.5 petaflops (5TFlop/5970 gives 1Ghash, the network is currently about 700ghash strong). incredible computing power is completely "wasted" for little e-currency already....

Emil 05-04-2011 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowan (Post 18099078)
Peaked past $4 now...

I was going to buy $100 worth a couple of days ago to get my feet wet. Could have doubled my investment without doing a thing. FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU....

Yeah, I regret that I didn't bought some when it was down at $0.70.
I wonder why I didn't see it coming, Bitcoin was getting more and more exposure. Of course it would rise. :(

Emil 05-04-2011 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gir (Post 18099157)
given the fact that solving the blocks is used to ensure security of the the system, that would be the only practical use :) and considering you're paid 4x more than the power consumed it aint that bad either.

note that computing power at current difficulty lies at about 3.5 petaflops (5TFlop/5970 gives 1Ghash, the network is currently about 700ghash strong). incredible computing power is completely "wasted" for little e-currency already....

Yes, too bad it couldn't be used for something useful like http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org .

Emil 05-17-2011 05:51 AM

https://mtgox.com/ - Check out the price! Nearly $8 now! Wasn't it like $0.70 a couple of weeks ago? Daaaammmnnnn....

Sunny Day 05-18-2011 04:46 PM

Stability?????
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Emil (Post 18019502)
Have anyone seen this?
People are already using it so it's a "working currency" right now.

http://www.bitcoin.org

Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer digital currency. Peer-to-peer (P2P) means that there is no central authority to issue new money or keep track of transactions. Instead, these tasks are managed collectively by the nodes of the network. Advantages:

Bitcoins can be sent easily through the Internet, without having to trust middlemen.

Transactions are designed to be computationally prohibitive to reverse.

Be safe from instability caused by fractional reserve banking and central banks. The limited inflation of the Bitcoin system?s money supply is distributed evenly (by CPU power) throughout the network, not monopolized by banks.


Value has bounced from $6 USD to $8 USD and back to to $6 then to $8. That's stable??? I's a game of Musical Chairs. True, I kick myself for not buying at $.08 USD, but in Musical Chairs, you never know when the game will end. Also with so few market makers, are you sure it's not a few manipulating a market??

Agent 488 05-18-2011 05:06 PM

https://youtube.com/watch?v=TwNfBgwbqng

Sunny Day 05-21-2011 03:02 PM

Tomorrow may have come
 
BitCoins in the last 48 hours have dropped from $7 to $6 and during that time had been at $5.50. Great stability.

DBS.US 05-21-2011 04:04 PM

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6897/picture4dy.png
The best salesmen always wear Black T Shirts:winkwink:

marlboroack 05-21-2011 04:06 PM

Yeah till something fucking happens and there is no such thing as your money existing.

HomerSimpson 05-21-2011 04:58 PM

bitcoin bubble :)

Emil 05-27-2011 04:35 AM

It have been up to $9.2.. It's about $8.6 now.
No, it isn't stable but it's very interesting to see where this goes. Bitcoin gain more popularity all the time and since the mining is becoming slow I guess the value will continue to raise on a very bouncy path.

Emil 05-27-2011 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowan (Post 18099078)
Peaked past $4 now...

I was going to buy $100 worth a couple of days ago to get my feet wet. Could have doubled my investment without doing a thing. FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU....

How do you feel now? :1orglaugh

JFK 05-27-2011 04:42 AM

one fitty Anonymous accounts:2 cents:

rowan 05-27-2011 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emil (Post 18170465)
How do you feel now? :1orglaugh

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. :thumbsup

Question is whether it has reached its peak or will climb further still. Will I be kicking myself in another month when it's gone to $12 or $15? :error

Sid70 05-27-2011 05:41 AM

Feel free to buy my coin$ loading my epassporte account [email protected]

rowan 05-29-2011 07:55 AM

This guy reckons it's going to literally explode. If you compare the value now when compared to its introduction it has increased more than 1000X.

http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/29/why-...-into-bitcoin/

I can understand speculation and its value growing, but I still can't get my head around what you do if you have $$$$ worth of bitcoin but actually need to use it in the real world. If everyone starts converting back, does that reduce its value? Or will it stabilise as more people accept it as an actual currency used to purchase goods and services, rather than just a way to make some money on the way up?

Looking at it another way... if you put in $USD1000 14 months ago and it's now worth $USD1m+ could you even have enough people to buy that in order to get back the full amount in USD?

Anyway... noticed that mtgox accepts AUD funds... I'm going to speculate. :pimp

Agent 488 05-29-2011 08:58 PM

http://www.quora.com/Is-the-cryptocu...in-a-good-idea

maxxtro 05-30-2011 02:35 AM

I don`t get it

Emil 06-05-2011 02:06 AM

$18!!!!!!!!!!!

DWB 06-05-2011 02:47 AM

God damn, I'm getting old.

Internet User 06-05-2011 03:25 AM

anyone selling Bitcoins? i need 10-20

got paypal/paxum

Chosen 06-05-2011 05:27 AM

How many miners is out there?


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