What do you mean by MAINSTREAM?

You are talking about "adult webmaster" boards?

I can not recall any with more posts

teeth whiteners
make money on google

etc
etc

links pulled

Yep... not any others with more posts, but that doesn't mean it ever beat the daily post volume or traffic level of the others.

Which is exactly what my post was about... they come and go, non-stop, from boards, processors, programs, affiliates, etc. It's not something that is a few years old, it's been happening for 15 years.

There are too many idiots in this business. Tubes site or card banging, doesnt matter. The idiots are fucking themselves along with everyone else.

It all started with tgp sites. Free sites were a great idea, just a little tease with some banners the business model worked and signup ratios were awesome. Then someone got the idea to give it away for free.

You guys are funny.... Ratios in 96 would bomb, paysites got shut down pre99 because they failed, and most programs back then never calculated ratios, it was mostly PPC or total crap stats.

What changed in our Industry was the traffic flow. We used to share it, from a gallery, a trade, a hardlink, cj sites, even paysites did it with exits. Today, other than a few submit passes and minor sources, this has all but dried up.

10 years ago any joe that could use netscape gold could rip out a crap page, toss it up on one of many many many free hosts, submit it by hand, and instantly get some beer money while a site make some cash too.

That's gone today.. that traffic is bottle necked between a 100 or so sites, almost all of which don't share the traffic, at least not at mass volume so the entire Industry can tap into it.

If you want the sales, just go where the traffic is... I guarantee you the sales will follow.

I dont think there was an adult board ever with more posts per day than this place.

Oh yeah... but that's not a bad thing, gfy took off as the others fell apart. Hell, a huge group of people couldn't hack gfy all together and split off again. That board is almost dead, but it's not like the people came back... But back in the day, it wasn't all split up, it was highly focused into just a few really hot spots.

I would guess 2-3% of our 'active' Industry has ever posted on gfy... I find people all the time that have never heard of it, or even trade shows or lots of stuff - point being, still room today for someone to be bigger, just like in the past.

Well if anybody is an expert in conversions magically appearing out of no where, it would be Paul.

Quoted for the truth.

Any businessman who thinks giving the product away for free in the amounts online porn does is not thinking. The reasons are obvious and the proof that it doesn't work is everywhere.

Yet people think it works. When today it's obvious to everyone it doesn't work for the business and only for the individual for a short while.

Doc says that some Tubes convert at 100 a day. Not thinking about where those sign ups came from. To him the free content created them. The truth is that traffic would of bought 200 times a day from TGP sites and 500 a day from a softcore advert and maybe as high as 1,000 a day from a link.

If Tube traffic converts at 1-1,000 on clicks on a banner. it takes 100,000 clicks to get 100 sign ups.

If a Tube video needs 10 views to get 1 click on a banner it takes 1 million views to get 100 sign ups.

1 million people clicking on an advert like this, and remember this is the most any site gives away in this example, what would conversions of been like?

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/banner5.jpg

The argument that people wouldn't be looking at online porn is baseless. People who are interested in porn will look for it. Once you erect a barrier between the buyer and the seller you have problems. If that barrier satisfies that buyer, then the need to buy is lessened.

In the early days on TGP I knew where many of the buyers were coming from. They were magazine buyers. Because magazine sales declined from the time of TGP sites. And everyone giving away free porn whooped with joy at the decline of the magazine business. Screaming they don't understand the way Internet marketing works. They understood it perfectly well. The online marketing guys were the ones that didn't understand it.

They thought giving the product away for free was the way to sell it. :upsidedow

The truth is most of the people in this business in the early days didn't have a pot to piss in, didn't have a clue how to sell, create porn or even knew what porn was about. So with that as a starting point they were unable to create a product that truly sold. They had to create a product that sold to 1-100 clicks. Which was probably 1-500 porn surfers.

Now they know free porn is a killer to selling porn and the argument is "If you only give away a little bit, sales will come flowing back." Without realising, if they gave away nothing, sales would come flooding back. We would be swamped with sales, the biggest servers would be the ones for the members area, not the ones for the free porn. The guys who made a $million selling porn, would of made $50 million.

Of course the guys posting up most of the free porn as affiliates would be working offline. Which many will be soon.

This post is an indication of the thinking of online porn.

Mainstream isn't stupid enough to give the buyer a free alternative to buy. How do they ever get people to buy without giving it away. Do people who actually want the product go looking for it?

No that's a stupid idea. :1orglaugh

Are you crushing on somebody at Manwin? Do tell!

No. Having Reggie here for a few days made me realise that I was coming across very anti Manwin only. My problem, if it is a problem, is we know very little about Manwin and for a company that's taking over the business slowly that's a bad thing. IMO

I dislike all those who thought the way to sell online porn was to give it away for free. That thought without giving it away, people wouldn't be able to find it or even come to find it. The people who thought that not only should we give it away, we should pay a lot to give it away and give the power over to those who give it away.

AND few ever dreamed it was actually losing them sales. They thought 1-100 was 100 who would never buy online porn, therefore a result. Stupid mindset. Without giving it away they could of had, approximately, 10% of the traffic and double the sales.

We made the business all about free porn and now complaining about too much free porn. :upsidedow

Doesn't make sense. Anything more than what I showed, is too much.

You're right man. I really hated the days when Serge would send me $60k checks, I'd pull 50k hits a day from search engines and convert that at 1:200, then switch to ifriends and make $20k - $25k a week, then switch to TCG and compete with WiredGuy over had made the most sales. Things are so much better now.

BBL, gotta make some bullshit tube sites and give all the porn away that I used to get paid for.

Where did I say things are much better? I'm pretty sure I never wrote that.

And all you did was backup what I just said... In the past, you could easily tap into the traffic stream that was freely open and available for anyone to tap into. It was free, it required almost zero skills, it was simple, it was vast and everyone was sharing.... that's gone, thus your sales are gone.

If you want the numbers back you hand, and for sure others are doing those numbers, then you would need to go where the traffic is today.

Seth you have to understand Doc sees the world from his side. He probably needs 10,000s of hits to get a sale. You need 200.

He probably doesn't have your skills to work the search engines and he can't figure out how you could possibly get 50K. So thinks you struggled.

He sees lots of surfers coming to him and doesn't dream they might be coming from you and others. I suspect his ratios are worsening all the time, yet he sees all this traffic coming to him and doesn't understand he's reaching the bottom of the barrel.

He sees the business world posting from home. I saw it working from a 3,500 sq ft studios and office employing 8 people. Same business, different views because of different positions.

You saw it? Oh then I can say I saw it from my 18,000 sq foot office with 30 staff.. Same business, no... mine was much larger and still is today.

Idiot.


Anyway, where do you get your online experience? What is the most sales/traffic you've ever had? Where do you get off even posting about traffic/sales when you've never done more than a handful?

Fact is this Paul.... you 100% failed online! Without question....

Prove it.

An idiot who made a lot of money.


Must of sold $2,000,000 worth of sales online and most without affiliates. Didn't need a lot of traffic and retention IS awesome. And that's just online which was only part of the business. Please say prove it.

You see you only see the world in terms of paysites. I see the world with a much wider lens.

Not bad for an idiot. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Must take you off ignore, you're an amusing clown.

http://www.spunangel.com/uploaded_im...n15-796267.jpg

It's been posted here before, people here have been to it... why would I need to prove it to a nobody?



That's not a lot of money... that's you making a living for yourself, prob no more than 60-80k a year personal take home.



2 million in like 10 years? As I said, you have zero room to be talking about traffic/sales.... I've made millions with sponsors directly, let alone 10's of millions with my own paysites.

Wider lens? How about you quit pretending to know something you clearly have zero clue about.... and I was never on ignore, idiot.

Mods should really consider making a "make thread invisible for {username here}" option when you create a new thread lol

100 tube hATERS

There was nothing that I did back then that was so easy that anyone else could tap into it. It damn sure wasnt free to do. Same with the things that I do today. Different source for a different market.

The only difference is that today, I dont have near as much traffic. But when I can now convert at 1:30 I dont need near as much. My sales are anything but gone and I'm still doing a comfortable 5-figures per month and have always been a one-man operation.

And to be honest, I have never built a tube site and if I ever had ratios as horrible as what most tube owners call 'good' I'd have a fucking heart attack over it. Its funny that tube sites lure the surfers in with porn and then push dating and cams. Kill one market to push another. Maybe McDonalds should give away free hamburgers so they can sell fries & sodas. I'm sure that Burger King and Wendy's would be forced to do the same shit when their hamburger sales drop to near zero.

Good thing I'm in the fried chicken market I guess.

If you're doing a difference source for a different market today... how can you compare that to years ago?

Like I don't think free porn or anything made newsgroups die, which used to really pump some sales. The traffic simply moved, many times over. I can't really compare today to then, because it was sooooo different.

I have a feeling the traffic you bring in is probably rather filtered. A Google search alone starts the filter for you, and I bet you did a few more things to help. If you did the same thing with a tube today, it converts great, numbers you would expect. But at mass volume, a banner or just normal ads, no... that isn't going to rock any conversions unless the ad/content totally kills it. - But it's always been that way!

Dating and cams is not the income earners for major tubes... yes they make money, but it's prepays that pad the pockets. More than enough major companies willing to fork down the 5-6 figure, monthly, ad costs, that they've been renewing for years now. One would have to think.... the traffic isn't complete shit if they keep having the same buyers, over and over - for sure at those prices.

KCF has given away a ton of food making lines around the block.... it works if you're also selling something.

I'm done, you win. Good night/good morning/whatever.

I win? This was an argument?

WTF is wrong with you people.... no wonder you've failed, you can't even have a conversion without getting your panties in a twist.

"Hate" it's such a strong word ...

Which board was "bigger" or had more posts per day.
Im very curious

200 x $5 = $1000

30 x $50 =$1500


This about sums you up :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Pick one... yep, that one was bigger.

:1orglaugh

Is it some secret board that only you know about?

Why cant you mention the name?

WTF is wrong with YOU? I've failed? No. My panties are twisted? I dont think so.

We see this from 2 completely different points and that is that. I see no point in discussing it any longer. My 'panties' arent twisted with you, and damn sure not twisted over this.

I dont see what is so hard to understand about that. Good day.

Well, you could have just said that... or tossed up more ideas. But you tossed up a hand in the face and walked away like something butt hurt you instead.

Now it's not hard to understand, you actually explained yourself...

The problem with debating with you is you take a statement and twist it.

Yes I only made $2 million online in 10 years and you assume from that I made $60k a year. Not even you're stupid enough to realise online was just part of my income. In fact online was pure profit, after processing and hosting.

You know we shot for magazines and online was in addition to that. Magazine sales produced a profit without online. You must realise that.

If you don't you're not clever enough to debate something with. If you do know that, you're just arguing like a fool. Therefore not worth debating with.

No secret, unless maybe you just weren't around then. This isn't anything bad, the Industry was different then. We had way more Affiliates and far less sites/services splitting them apart. It was just a more focused Industry that matched the times and today it changed, that's it.....

Just as an example, might be a bad one but the point is about traffic.... A button on Ynot used to cost $10k-$20k, for 1 month, and I made millions back. GFY's top ad was $1.5k and now I think is $2k. Point being, the services back then were so much larger than GFY has ever been, that it's not even in question if you were around then.

Anyway, the topic at hand was with Paul and related to things always change, that everything going on today has always been going on and that this Industry WILL change again, the traffic & sales WILL move again.

That's the point I was trying to make to Paul. As technology changed, it has gotten harder, less free traffic to tap into every day, more of it bottled up, thus less people can just walk in and make a dime and of course more people will leave because it's harder.

That doesn't mean free porn or piracy did that... we can see with own eyes that it changed.

Everything you said was right, except this part.

In the scenario with tubes, and McDonalds being tubes, they would lure people in with free hamburgers and then sell them something that is parasitic to the rest of the fast food business, like health food programs to get healthy.

Health programs are completely detrimental to the fast food industry. But McDonalds has no regard for hamburgers, shit, they're free. Selling people the parasite product is where its' at.

Dating and cams are completely parasitic in nature to the rest of the adult business. They bring nothing to the table content wise. Mostly dating. Absolutely nothing. Shit they even steal the pictures of the content to make the fake profiles to take the money and spending power away from the adult consumers. You don't see the tsunami of traffic that goes to dating and cams coming back to paysites, etc.

What you see is almost a one way flow of traffic and spending power going their way from tubes, torrents, and fileshares, which is where a very large percentage of the adult traffic has gone.

If you remove scam markets like dating and penis pills, where do you send all that leecher traffic from these tubes, torrents, and fileshares?

You know the game Seth. That is cool.
:thumbsup

You mean like when you put down numbers with incorrect math and then try to use that to make your points? That's why nobody debates you, we're too busy pointing out your flaws in the logic.

2m a year over 10 years is 200k a year, and it's 50% profit for just about everyone... after affiliates, staff, hosting, domains, etc.. Unless you're one of the few with your own traffic network, which then still has it's costs.

Yep, magazines USED to be good, long ago. Just like many in our Industry could make $10k-$50k a month with just VoD, before download sites, before cable tv rights, before plugins... and so on.

Again though, NONE of that means you know shit about traffic online, sales online, getting traffic, converting sales and doing it at anything other than a trickle of a level.... point being, free site webmasters make more than you ONLINE and you're here telling us what's up? Hahahahahahahahaahahahahaahaa

So please name one forum that has more daily posts than GFY
thanks for the history lesson

Good lord... your question makes no difference to the conversion at hand, other than they're gone now or most of them. But if really want an answer that bad, the (edit: can't say that word) NP threaded forum easily had far more users, topics and posts daily, PornCity at point was off the chart, the one dig420 owned was far larger aff/traffic wise... Some other random big ones as well, niched up, a newbie one, an that avs board had a shit ton at one point, but when you have 60k affiliates that tends to happen.

No idea what it makes a difference though... point was, they come and go, traffic shifts, which is exactly what we see happened.

no board ever bigger than gfy. sorry champ. you got caught in that one.