Very true.

The real question is down from where and to where?

I suspect if the truth were told 95% of people in porn have had a cut in income. Some can afford to sit back, retire and look on from the sidelines at what the "experts" did to an industry that was once dead easy to earn money at.

And chuckle at those who will have to find a new job soon.

Your business partner and wife for example :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

ya income goes down in a recession, and the porn business took an extra hit because porn surfers found free ways to get their kicks.

anybody who is suffering right now doesn't understand economics. there's a recession every decade. u gotta save and u gotta keep sailing into the wind.

the big question is whether webmasters are willing and able to make the changes necessary to stay in this business. it has completely changed in the last 2 years but desperate affiliates are still demanding fresh FHGs so they can submit daily. every sponsor knows that area of the business is now a dead end, but time is still being wasted on fresh affiliate tools.

meanwhile, the smarter sponsors have abandoned the affiliates and started marketing in the areas where they need to be.

now i am way over my word count for today so i have to take a shot..

The big questions are.

Is the downturn in porn anything or much to do with the recession?

If it is, will the old customers ever return?

Yes sponsors need to find new ways to promote their site. The cost of marketing a site the way it used to be done is not bearable. Some are closing their affiliates programs. Yes staying open. Are they suffering as much as some affiliates would like?

You're right the days of jumping to every affiliates wish are coming to an end.

Remember the rush for automated blogs? Today the complaint is there's not enough, they're not good enough and often not updated enough.

Those complaining aren't bright enough to realise. They're not profitable enough for many site. How long before Tube clips take the same hit? The rush of sponsors to give away hosted Tube clips seems to have slowed down.

The customer has been changing for longer than 2 years, it's just that the last 2 years the changing has really hit home. Whether the business can come up with a solution is still to be seen.

page 12 bump

a crackhead is always a crackhead.

girls need shoes and guys need porn.

a recession alters buying habits, not desires.

the question isn't "are they buying?", its "can u sell to them?"

That's a nice quote.

But are you? Are YOU selling porn and making good money, and when I say "good" I mean 7 figures a year? 'Cause I don't give a damn who you are...it's not easy selling something that is already free.

I have finally read this whole thread after 2 days returning to it. Its a lot of reading.

But I have learned something.:thumbsup
I now understand.

Great example of why this business is failing.

Crack and shoes aren't given away in bigger amounts than what's available to buy.

The question isn't "are they buying?", its "can YOU PRODUCE A PRODUCT THEY WILL BUY AND YOU CAN SELL TO THEM?"

Some always found selling porn very easy. Because they could work at a level few others could.

Today, the porn produced is at a level 10,000s can produce and selling is very very hard. Can someone afford to produce content that's good enough to turn this position around?

A few DVD companies still produce at a level online porn can't. In general they're having to cut back.

In the beginning and now, few online porn companies could afford to pay for good porn. So the line was "The online surfer wants amateur porn." Which meant "This is all we can afford to produce."

Someone recently asked me what it would of cost 5-10 years ago to get good content. This was my answer.

The question is always not what someone can produce it for. It's what that person can sell for. Like traffic, why send traffic to a site that pay 10% and converts/retains no better than any other site?

The same applies to content. Why would a good shooter work for less than he can sell for?

I read your advice on marketing. It was aimed at Ma & Pa sites doing it in their spare time. And probably always being a Ma & Pa operation working in their spare time. I was doing that 30 years ago. So maybe it will work for some today. Diffence was I was in a booming business. Not one sliding down a pole.

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What happens when you produce this incredible content that nobody else can do...and then it's on a thousand tubes, file share sites, and torrents in an hour after you put it up?

Now it's just another scene out of tens of thousands given away completely free. :(

And they will steal EVERY one of them you spend all that money making.

What happens? You have a reason to DMCA them.

If you have the same content that 100 others produce, then it's pointless sending a DMCA.

Look at the companies dragging Tubes into court. How many online only ones in that mix?

The stupidity of the people who were in online porn is. They could of had great content for free. In fact it would of produced a profit without online.

Great content few if any could duplicate.
Content that would turn surfers into customers fast and keep them as customers for a lot longer.
Less hassle than what online was doing.
And it's all FREE!! :thumbsup

Tubes is killing the business for most. Like TGPs killed it for some offline porn and made online porn harder to sell. And don't tell me they didn't. Give me logical argument. So I can swipe it down with more logic.

The only "logic" here in 2011 is that if you shoot a hot amateur scene with a girl who embodies sexuality and fucks with wild abandon...more folks are gonna enjoy that than a big budget "Pirates" type "movie".

And the minute it is released it will be STOLEN and put on a thousand different sites. Good luck trying to DMCA all of that down...and oh by the way...after you send the DMCA it can be 2 weeks or more before some of them will get around to taking it down.

And then when it FINALLY comes down and your expensive scene has already been seen and downloaded for free by millions of ex-potential customers...it will just get uploaded again a few minutes later and you get to start all over again.

That is the unfortunate reality we live with today as producers of content. Until new copyright laws are passed that are up to date with the internet...it's just not gonna do you much good to create the content you speak of, UNLESS you can protect your members area (which can be done and is being done)

good argument against bothering with DMCA notices.

once a torrent is available it is spread to thousands of other torrent sites within a day.

however, no one has mentioned that the torrent-heads aren't your target audience.

if a guy wants to jerk to a specific model, first he has to search for it. the top page of the search will be all torrent sites. he can try his luck at finding an honest torrent, then spend 1-2 days downloading it, just to watch the video - or he can find a paysite or pay-per-view site and watch it now.

anybody with a bit of expendable cash and a valid credit card will ignore the torrents and spend $10-20 to see the video now.

of course, the problem is trying to sell to the tubeheads. i don't personally think that is possible. i stick to solo model, porn star, gay, and niche sites. these are the areas where SEO (and other marketing) can actually net sales.

there is no growth potential in generic porn.

Which is why it's important to make sure the top spots of a search for your girl are NOT torrents or tubes. :)

QFT :pimp

I would not want to be the owner of one of those big programs full of bought generic content at this stage of the game for sure.

I said reply using logic.

Logic tells me that someone spending what it cost to make a "Pirates" porn movie is making more money than someone filming "a hot amateur scene". Top quality offline porn isn't a one off, it's a continual flow. They spend lots of money producing their product, not a few hundred dollars like online does. Even today some outspend online per scene.

And they suffer the same problem as everyone else does.

Yes sit on your hands until they decide to change the laws in every country in the World. :Oh crap :Oh crap

plsureking is dead right. The guys downloading pirated porn aren't your market. If they're effecting your sales then you're in the wrong market. Piracy has changed the game yet again. The people downloading pirated content if stopped will move to legal Tubes and we would still be fucked. Adapt to it or die.

The beauties of a paysite aren't being exploited. Maybe because they are strapped after paying out the massive amounts for traffic required today, maybe they're run by people who don't get porn or the porn buyers. What ever the reasons Paysites have adapted little in the last 15 years accept for technology which they just used.

15 years ago they were just a place to download pictures and very small compressed video. As speeds picked up and hosting got cheaper. Videos took over and pictures got bigger and less of a selling point. Then HD came in and everyone jumped on that band wagon. All the changes were from outside the industry as far as the product was concerned.

Yet the business changed 180 degrees. Free porn, legal or not, became a big factor. A factor you made a lot of money from Robbie. Piracy became a factor. And the biggest problem was the saturation of cheap porn. The thinking was anyone with a digital camera could shoot porn. Anyone with an elementary knowledge of building a website could put up a porn site. And if you threw enough traffic at it someone would by.

And less and less per 1,000 did buy. Piracy isn't to blame for that. People thinking TGPs would bring in millions of customers and make millions were the problem. They didn't think it through for very long. Without TGPs, 10,000,000s of customers would of bought and billions would of been made.

The solution is simple, executing it, is the hard part. Make the product more appealing to customers Make it fit their needs better.

Cheaper, shorter join periods, live shows, interaction between customer and models, scenes that aren't just another girl on another bed shot by a guy who can't earn more elsewhere and honest.

The reason sales are falling is simple. The product isn't good enough. Adapt or die.

Even Manwin will suffer if they continue down the same route online porn has been on for 15 years. It will just take longer.

bump for page 12

class as always

class as always

bump for today ...................

You can still make money with the tubes but with PornHub owning almost all of them...well.....LOL
Tick tick tick.

then make one, get traffic, sell it to them :D

don't expect to make any money with an average tubes.. do you think is that easy? opk go ahead and build 100... and then come back

only ones doing money with the tube buzz, are the tube script sellers, the pre-build tube fuckers selling their worthless tubes, or the massive tubes that show up in 1-10 in google...

some others are the guys who are lucky to sell pre-paid ads on their tubes to some rich sucker sponsors with money to waste on ads... nobody else.

This is an obviously touchy subject.

Reading this thread was better than watching a sitcom. And still no answer - how to realize a profit on content.