You must be smoking some pretty good stuff. Be sure to pass the roach around bro. :thumbsup

That has to be the most fucked up excuse for affiliates that was ever invented.

Free porn = hundreds of millions of people looking at porn.

All paid porn = Tens of thousand people at a time looking, instead of millions buying.

If they like is so much to look at it, most would buy it if they had to.

You're a failure looking for an excuse of your own short comings.

And they do buy... they just don't buy from you because you don't market to them.

Could you broadcast anymore that you don't have a clue about traffic? The logic on this is about as simple as it gets... and clearly without question and without a doubt people looking at free porn buy porn. Just like people not looking at any porn, can be shown offers from porn, and buy it. ie: Why spam still makes sales.

That's the volume factor you've NEVER experienced or seen in your life. That's how I know you're talking 100% out of your ass.

Oh yes, you claiming I've failed means I've failed... hahaha, I can send a mailing and produce more sales 'this morning' than you'll produce in the next month. Now get back to pretending like you have a clue so I can rail on you more.

Btw Paul.... it may seem like I rail on you, but if you notice I never question your experience with shooting. I don't argue it, nor care to attempt to say you're not experienced in it, that would be pure silly of me.

Understand, I've shot some porn, we've produced 100's of videos, 1000's of photo sets, but that doesn't mean I'm experienced in it. I can share my experiences but they're very limited in the scope of things..

Don't take this as a bash, but that's you with traffic/marketing online. Your skill isn't traffic, but you like to pretend it is.

Maybe I should go around and start pretending I can shoot porn simply because I produced so much of it? That's what you're doing here, but with traffic and it's pure silly...

As a salesman or marketing man you're a failure.

By thinking that if "hundreds of millions" are consuming a product you're only able to sell to "Tens of thousand". You do nothing but make obvious your failure.

Hundreds of millions indicate hundreds of millions of men interested in a product. Selling to 50 million gives you less than a 50% sales ratios. Selling to 1 million gives you less than a 1% sales ratio. That in any field of selling to interested people is an awful ratio.

This isn't handing out a free biscuit in a super market. This is setting up a store that people go into and take as many biscuits as they want, in any flavour or type.

Now if you think that's good, then you have a very very low target and don't think very highly of yourself.

Volume selling is something you're clueless about. Volume giving the product away to make a few bucks you have figured out. Sending out a mailer is giving out text to a site. Giving away free porn is something else.

You're clueless about volume selling of porn. That was what we used to do. Now we give it away in the hope some will buy.

Even the guy standing in the street handing out leaflets is doing more selling than you are.

If you're so confident and not full of bullshit, send out a mailer for a site I will set up and I will pay you 50% of 100% of the joins.

Show us the proof.

As for marketing porn. What do you think I was doing for the last 33 years?

If you could produce anything like "100's of videos, 1000's of photo sets," you would be running a site and not some affiliate. Because sending all this great traffic to your site, by giving it all away. Would be making you millions.

I think you missed the point of TheDoc.

If you have been doing something for 33 years it doesn't automatically mean you are very good at it.

When I was younger I played football for almost 10 years in a row, but after 10 years I was still a very poor skilled football player. I just didn't have any talent for it.

Damn you're stupid.... everything has a drop off ratio, nothing sells at 100% even people that walk into stores to buy something to always buy. Free porn is just one market within our Industry as well, it's drop off ratio could be 90% and it's still a volume game - and that's something you clearly do not understand.

To compare porn to biscuits, the biscuit shop would only 'crumbs' for free, it's not like paysites give away everything for free and it's not like tubes have entire paysites on them.

Yep, I'm clueless... I've produced 300+ sales daily from my own traffic, 100's daily from affiliates, 100's daily from mailers, and done millions and millions of hits daily. But yeah, totally fucking clueless.


Confident? Oh yeah, my mailing techniques are extremely proven. I don't promote any product, sales wise, that I don't own. That's one reason the lists do so well. And, that's what I do for others, I don't mail my list to people - I set up YOUR lists to mail with my rules, emails, etc.

If you want this, it's $5k setup and 100% of the first mailing. My results are guaranteed.

Arguing with Paul Markham is like arguing with the senior citizen at the nursing home; he just wants his diaper changed, that's all, so he rants and raves until the nurse comes by and cleans his ass.

very painful to read ....

For 33 years you've been marketing/selling via b2b, not b2c. You sell to the magazines, shops, and they sell to the consumer. You do sell to the consumer 'through' your content, that's how you know your market... but your actual sales skills, are b2b.

Hahahaha, proof... I've owned a major program - very well known for it as well. Then several smaller ones, a kick ass content plugin that everyone in the niche had, even had our own studios in LA for many years, then Edmonton Canada and have been producing content for roughly 12 years.

And yes, I'm an Affiliate as well.... how else would I now how to produce sales in house?

?
 

Maybe they won't hurt sales if made responsible, with short video clips, 1 minute max., I don't know.

Is there a way to find out what WP plugin or whatever , this site is using?

http://www.femdomtube.org/

How disrespectful of you Paul.

I've been in the entertainment business all my life. Longer than you have for sure. And yes, playing in bands, and entertaining LIVE crowds around the world taught me how to market and entertain "old school"...almost carnie-style.

You? You were a camera guy working for other people. I've never been disrespectful to you at all. But if you want to talk about people the "industry didn't need"...then let's be honest.

At the beginning of YOUR career you were just another young, hungry guy trying to make it. If you had not "made it" someone else would have been there doing those magazine shoots and making that same paycheck you did.

What I do isn't something that anybody with a camera and a few years can "learn".
You have no right or even any reason to be disrespectful to me in any way at all.

I hope you have a nice life. I do respect you as a photographer. I also agree that piracy and the stealing of entire members areas and studio catalogs is killing this business. I don't agree that the affiliate/sponsor business model we had before did anything but elevate the business.

I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore. And I would ask you to please not be a jackass when you address me. I have shown you that much respect. I'd like it back. I have placed you in a category with people that I don't talk to in that manner, but I won't sit here and have you talk to me like that for no reason at all.

Let's keep our debate civil with one another and let the trolls and "witty" comments from them keep them at their low level, and let's at least act like we have a little class when we talk to each other. Agreed?

Doing something as an amateur for 10 years shows a love for the activity. You gave up because you weren't very good at it, I gave up because at 60 I had made enough money to retire. Even though money still flows in from the last 20+ years work.

Doing something professionally for 33 years proves a lot of things. You're good at what you do, you're good at selling what you do, you're good at keeping up with trends in the market, you're good at marketing.

Throwing tons of free porn at possible customers in the hope of selling to 1 in a 1,000 shows you're not very good at anything but throwing free porn at 1,000s of people. And losing sales.

Accusing someone who has sold millions B2C, that he only sold B2B is a sign of stupidity.

Astral Blue

But Doc isn't the sharpest tool in the box. Even he's to thick about real selling to understand that selling sets to magazines, largely relies on the magazine buyers reactions to the sets. Putting our pictures on a front cover shows exactly how little he knows about selling B2B.

But Doc is just an affiliate with a big mouth and nothing to back it up. Where's all the content he shot? Look at his signature. Any signs of a man making millions? :1orglaugh


10 second clips would hurt the business even less. Static ads would give the business a huge boost. A boost that would make some multimillionaires and put Doc back to flippin burgers.

The hate of Piracy and Tubes with full length scenes exposes the real problem. Too much free porn available. Except it isn't free. A lot of the time it's put up at great expense by the industry itself.

Does anyone disagree with this statement.

Without free porn, there would be a lot more porn sold online.

Except those that think surfers are too dumb to find it or won't come looking for it.

How did we build a multi billion dollar industry before the Internet and clowns giving porn away? :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

This shows the truth prior to the Internet.

Paid porn = hundreds of millions of people paying to look at porn.

I'm waiting for Doc to stick his size 11s down his throat. Come on Doc.

The big problem when debating the issue of free porn and the devastation it caused with online people is.

They are clueless about the porn industry prior to the Internet.

They think it revolved around a few video-DVD companies operating out of The Valley LA and the rest was not worth a dime.

They don§t even use common sense. So here's some pointers for them.

Printed porn was enormous. Simply Gigantic.

A country like the UK sold well over a million printed porn magazines a month. With a population around 55 million that's 2%. Use the same % for the US and EU and you're on your way to the true buying numbers.

Now add the rest of the world. Exclude China, Muslim countries and a few other minor places. And it's clear magazines were selling at a rate of close to 100 million every month.

Now add cable. Before the Internet cable was available in most of the developed world and Adult Channels were wide spread. In the UK Richard Clive Desmond made millions out of porn, most of it from owning Television X and Red Hot TV, he sold off his print porn empire after the Internet devastated printed porn. He seems to have survived.

Will we ever see an online porn mogul reach these heights?

So cable both soft and hardcore were big earners.

Then there's DVD/Video. Any decent feature film was shot in 3 versions, hard, medium and soft. Often the softcore version was worth more than the hardcore. Because it could be sold anywhere that would allow soft core, even a few Muslim countries.

In fact there were many companies who only shot softcore because of the profit and lack of hassle.

And prior to the Internet all films after release into cinema went to video shops. For rental and sale. Today the high street video rental business are a dying bread. For porn it was reckoned 50% of video sales were via rental.

When discussing it with most they ignore all that happened then. Unless they gloat at how the Internet and it's free porn made these industries a shadow of what they were. As the punch away at their keyboards in their spare bedroom or living room they only count their wages and think they are part of the new wave of selling porn.

Some don't even think beyond their own posts.

Boasting 100s of millions look at porn, 10,000 buy porn yet still not everyone is buying, and ratios are falling. About the dumbest statement ever.

Well he can't come up with a single shred of proof of his boasted sales figures. so let's assume what we may from that. His site in his signature definitely shows a porn mogul doing 300 sales a day = $9,000 and $3,285,000 a year in sales. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Go sell your bullshit somewhere else, I'm not buying it. Prove it or brand yourself a failure at lying.

Disrespectful or not, is it true. Could you made the money you did, in porn. make without giving away free porn supplied by others?

As fr what you do and I did. There are 10,0000s of affiliates, 1,000s of site owners and only 100s of magazine shooters. The magazines didn't pay us well because 1,000s could do it.

If my saying the truth to you is disrespecting you, then should I not say it?

I rarely worked for other people. The real money was in working for myself and marketing and selling my goods.

Piracy is another form of free porn, nothing more and nothing less. Unless yours and CM abilities are so bloody marvelous surfers have to have her. Then any free porn will do. You're a guy who made money via free porn now scream at one form of free porn. ALL free porn hurt the porn industry and only the dumb think they need to give porn away to sell it.

It took the dumb Internet gurus to come up with that scheme.

Yeah, that's why I said you know 'your market' which has nothing to do with marketing to consumers and is damn sure different when it comes to marketing to online consumers or even reaching the market!

You're making yourself look rather stupid. Tons of people here promoted my programs. Our main niche was big dicks, then big boobs, but we did many others. Like I need to show you anything I do or justify my history to a person that means nothing to my business.

What about my signature? Tdcss is a product site that sells products, it's another revenue stream, stacking on with others.... it kinda shocks me this slips past you when you sell old used content in yours, but that's your only revenue stream.

Other than porn makes more today than it ever did before the Internet... that's because more people can access porn more ways than ever before. As a single example, not everyone with a smartphone owns a pc, making those people a unique market you're not tapping into.

Keep trying.... maybe if you read my posts enough it will sink into your thick skull.

Paul, if porn didn't exist on the interweb, people would be taking pics of pages within their dirty mags with their digital cameras or phones to post online and they'd also be recording amateur videos to post and eventually tubes would still come along, except the tubes and entire internet would be filled with free amateur videos LOL. Then who would be in trouble the most? YOU.

You said at one time the UK was selling printed porn to 2% of it's population. When porn came to the internet, was it not selling 1:50 or better? Who was to know or care that one day it would be the way it is now, no one was going to turn down those huge profits 10+ years ago just because it "might" become too widespread and free one day. But you can call them idiots for not being able to see the future. Get real.

No one woke up one day and said "We have to start giving away as much free porn as possible!", it was very gradual. Evolution maybe? Do you really think it could be kept as text links forever? Like everyone is going to be thinking "Man, if I could just show some titties on the tour page I would get so many sales! But I'm going to just keep posting text links and make the same as everyone else because I can see the future 20 years from now if I show some skin and it looks bad for everyone and I have a very kind heart".

What would your solution to car crashes be? Make cars illegal?
Should dealerships stop giving test drives? Wouldn't want them getting a taste of owning the car!

You live in an imaginary world.

:thumbsup:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Yeah, I think that's why you usually see a watermark like "www.pornhub.com/PaysiteName", so they can track how many type in. Maybe someone has some numbers from something like that they can share?

Maybe you don't understand what I've done in this business.
I owned a content company called Pure Candy Images that I sold to Brad Shaw back in 2002. I shot all the content for that and made a lot of money selling content. At the same time I was an affiliate as well and we owned a couple of "generic" paysites using our content and content that we bought as well.

And years before I got into online porn...I was male talent for Center Stage Productions from the early 1990's until I started Pure Candy Images in 1998. I also owned and worked in my own male strip show.

So yes Paul...I made a nice bit of money before online porn and made a lot of money with online porn without being an affiliate running promotional materials given to me by paysites. And I'm STILL making a LOT of money with Claudia-Marie's site right now.

But the several million dollars I have made as an affiliate (and continue to make money) on TOP of the other money I make is something that I am very happy and proud to have been able to make.

Despite the bullshit that is said on this board...there is me and only a couple of dozen like me that EVER made this kind of money as affiliates throughout the years.

And yes, you are being disrespectful because what you are saying is not the "truth". It's YOUR uneducated opinion about something that you don't understand.

paul markham - is without a shadow of a doubt - the dumbest person that posts on gfy

No he's not. Not at all. He is intelligent and has done well for himself. He just hasn't had much experience in selling porn to customers. He's a strong shooter with a pretty straight forward idea of how to market and sell.

Nothing wrong with that.

The problem I have with him is his assumption that he is somehow smarter than me or more clever than I am and can kick my ass in this business. And that just ain't the case.

A lot of what he says is true obviously. But he refuses to acknowledge that we DID achieve a "sweet spot" in terms of the Free/Paid ratio for almost 14 years and made a TON of money selling to people who otherwise couldn't buy porn (99% or more of the towns in the U.S. have NO adult bookstores...and many of them are illegal to ship to anyway)

With the explosion of piracy really taking off in large numbers in 2008 was when the decline began. That is what we have seen for the last 2 1/2 to 3 years. Before that? It was a gold mine for everyone.

Bottom line for me (since I started in '08 or thereabouts) is that this IS a "race to zero" so it's a ridiculous time to start a "company" with employees and try and grow said company to a large, TopBucks-esque size. Good fucking luck dude and dudettes.

BUT being a small(ish) one- or two-man show can still work wonders. Look at Robbie. How many "employees" do you have Robbie? Your profit margin is probably HUGE compared to someone who owns a multi-million-dollar operation, with 30-50 employees. You need only take care of yourself and your family, that's it. (I assume all this so forgive if I am wrong here.)

For those who choose to go that route, and can tough it out over the next 3-5 years, life may indeed but never-endingly sweet for you. This is my hope. Large companies tho? Tick tick tick...

I did have four guys working for me. Over the last 3 years though I found every one of them a new gig. So now it's just me since the middle of January.

And you're right...it's ALL profit for me. And I can move fast as hell. If I sense something needs to be changed or tweaked...or if I wake up in the middle of the night with an idea...I can make it happen instantly without any screwing around.

LOL Well, I would hope if you woke up in the middle of the night you'd give CM a poke before you ran to a keyboard. :D

But I'm the same way - finishing up "Screw My Wife Club" (my next paysite) this weekend while adding dating and cam links around my network, always thinking of ways to squeeze more juice out of the lemon. I used to be so precious about popups and cross-sells but since I see everyone else doing it I figure it's worth a shot. I assume people do these things because they work?

Pop ups will do nothing for you except piss people off.
And I think you mean "upsell" instead of "cross sell"

There is nothing wrong at all with creating a non-affiliate tour (preferrably the page that you link to from your "warning" page) and putting a couple of upsells that are either somehow related and/or will not compete with your own product...but can make you some extra money.

Best thing I have read so far this week! I agree with ya 100% DEATH TO ALL TUBES!

Yes, I meant "upsell" not "cross-sell", I was cross-eyed when I wrote that. :)

We'll see - 1/2 day of promoting dating and already a few dozen free signups (no dough yet) but encouraging. Only long-term will tell if dating hurts membership sales or not tho (or just adds to the kitty, like I'm hoping).

= If there was no porn on the Internet, there would be porn on the Internet. Excellent sense.

The Internet couldn't convert at 2% of those who clicked on a banner, let alone 2% of the population. Still making great sense I see.

They decided the best way to sell it was to give it away. :upsidedow

The only thing that stopped the progress of how much they gave away was server and BW costs.

My solution is pay affiliates what they deserve, 5% at best. Give them minimum support. Delete ll the hosted affiliates stuff on sponsors servers. And with the money saved make the members area the most important part of the business.

Slashing prices also.

Will it happen? No. Because the lunatics have taken over the asylum and the business is still being formed by the least important people in it.

Robbie said in a few posts before that if he went, it would be tough to replace him. If I went it would be easy. I think this illustrates the bloated importance affiliates have of themselves. If they went there would be no need to replace them. If the shooters went, who would shoot the porn.

People have learned by now you can't give a camera to anyone and expect decent porn to be churned out. Affiliates are nothing but a barrier between customers and sellers.

Apologies to Robbie, I thought he only did TGP sites and his sites today. It seems he has worked at other things in porn, thank you for educating me.

Well considering I'm the longest serving person in porn and one of the most successful, being dumb hasn't held me back.

Why do you think so many lever people are struggling then? :1orglaugh

Again people reveal their stupidity so easily.

This is what I've done in porn, for the stupid.

Was a model in the 60, 70s, 90s, and 2000s.

Started selling photographs to the end user via mail oder in 1977. The expanded to shooting sets in 1979. In 1982 shot my first 3 videos, which was for a client, then moved into shooting them for myself and selling mail order and overseas so B2C and B2B. The majority of that business which is what Astral Blue was direct to the customer with them writing in an order and posting it. Communication with customer to client was essential and many gave comments about the work. Far better for communication the the Internet because it required pen and paper for the customer to get his goods.

A single video of Astral Blue content was 3 solo girl scenes and would sell on average 1,000 times at a price of $40 to me. By the time we were raided for selling non certificated videos by the local trading standards I had a list of 300 titles. Do the maths.

While running Astral Blue I employed 2 people full time. They did little more than post out videos, the Post office van came twice a day to pick up sacks full of parcels.

During this time I was still shooting for magazines and sold to Barely Legal and achieved the first 2 front covers. This must of been mid 90s and they were still clients in 2009. Like most magazines we retained these customers for decades.

Met Eva in 1998 and instead of retiring in 2000. I married her, moved to Czech and gained a new lease on life and a new level of business. Simply the girls here were awesome. In the UK I would find 2-3 good girls a year and 1-2 great girls every couple of years. Here we were finding a good girl every month and a couple of great girls every year. From shooting Less than 400 sets from 1988 to 1998. we shot over 2000 from 1999 to 2008. And the value of each set was far more.

Sold to magazines in the beginning, then opened the content stores and then the paysites. Also sold to DVD companies. While here we ran a staff level that grew from 1 to 8 in a few years. From shooting and working in the house we rented to renting a 3,500 studio and office. And bought our house with cash.

Nearly 3 years after devastating events that made us decide to close down production and effectively let the business run on auto pilot we still make money. Eva's accident, my cancer and the demise of our main market would of put most of you out of business. We still carry on. :thumbsup

For a dumb guy who never adapted, not a bad CV. :1orglaugh

And I didn't even mention getting $3,000 for an afternoons shoot. :thumbsup :thumbsup

But I didn't open a paysite in 1998 and become a big paysite owner.

And that in those who have only one string to their bow makes me a failure, has been, never been and a person who couldn't adapt. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I did however point out to many that building sites with shit content from people who couldn't sell in any other market and paying affiliates a fortune to sell to people wanting porn. Would lead to disaster. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Still what a failure I've been. :1orglaugh

Adam.

Someone posted on another board these stats.

I think he's talking clicks on a link. Even if he's not a million views on a video would see 38 sales.

Maybe he's no good. I'm sure many will come in and post they can do 1-10 on their tube. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I guess your definition of being successful is being broke, with no business and with no life outside webmaster forums.

You have zero life apart from forums, you post from morning till night the same old shit all day

You cant accept that you didn't make money and now you are so bitter you do NOTHING at all apart from post all day every day on adult forums.

If it wasn't so fucking tragic and sad it would be funny.

You REALLY need to move on with your life. Watching you having a serious mental breakdown was funny for about a year, now it is seriously tragic.

Do you seriously have nothing else in your life? Can't you find a hobby or anything to do in your so called retirement. You are so very bitter and sad I feel sorry for you.

:Oh crap

Lol. You funny old man.

You said "imagine if people stopped giving away content" Right? Which isn't going to happen. Still with me? Cool.

I then used a technique called mirroring to obviously mock you for YET ANOTHER pathetic point and idea you made, viz:

"imagine is watching porn became mandatory".

You see, I took your ridiculous statement, and made another ridiculous statement 'mirroring' your mental POV.

This is how I mock you.

Hope you're up to speed now. I know you get tired posting your constant lies, so I took the time to break it down for you. No need to thank me.

Yes, Clearly, I had no idea you didn't realise! FFS Paul, it's MIRRORING again. You see, you said something sarcastic, and I mirrored you. Sigh.

Why did you make a post lying about putting people on ignore, then reply to EVERYONE you claimed was on your ignore list within a few hours?

Why do you feel the need to lie constantly? Is it cos Eva is out washing up now? Is she not there to tell you to stop lying?

If you want to ignore someone, just do it. But to start a thread with more lies just makes you look like, well, a liar.

Step away from the PC.

Why not take your puppy to the local playground? Sure you'll get lots of attention.

That was another of his huge lies. When it comes to facts and figures, Paul just pulls them out of his arse. He never provides a single citation. Ever.

Another pic on imgur for you Paul, just another day of ads on tubes with long videos

http://i.imgur.com/0uLio.jpg

7 sales today from putting 2 videos on 2 big tubes.
Aint much right? Nope, its for the little leaguers.

But guess what, it takes me 10 minutes a day to do this. Count those 7 sales x 30 a month x 12 a year. And its still not getting me rich right. But it sure as hell isnt hurting my bank account either.

And im not talking about paying for adspace. Im not throwing up just ANY video. Im doing it my way, and my way works for me. Its something that has been finetuned and tweaked, and im NOT going to spill the beans on how to do this properly.

But if you think a tube with a lot of free porn cant get you any sales, boy you are wrong.

Attracting millions of horney flies with free shit, and some will stick. This isnt the 90's but again: It sure as hell aint hurting my bankaccount, nor does it take much time.

Richard Desmond's networth is 950m because of his mainstream business and not because of Television X and Red Hot TV!

So why compare to him?!

the problem with your number isnt a problem with the traffic it a problem with your content

you basically trying to sell tube traffic with tgp methods

the real secret is designing a process that actually matches the true benefit of the tube

if you do that your conversion ratios are 1:113 or better

Because like most porn moguls he made enough money from porn to move on into other areas. With all his money, he still keeps the adult cable part.

Shows the money that used to be made and the good businessman he and some others are. I'm sure there will be one or two who will do the same from porn. But who will make £950 ($1.5 billion). Do you see anyone in online porn only becoming a billionaire? Been more than one from a start in porn.

Richard Desmond's porn empire was always a small part of his publishing business. But extremely profitable.

Jack Sparrow I never said Tubes don't make sales, I never said it wasn't easy to do. What I say and will always say is those 7 sales could of been 70 sales. Without the tons of free porn availble for years the 7 would of been far higher.

As Damian says it's too late now. If there is a solution it lies in the product we sell. It has to really compete with what's available for free. The problem isn't creating the product. The problem is affording it. With the massive cost today of traffic, very little is left for the product.

Your up a stream without a paddle.

Well done, you made $105 on a 50% rev share. till $3150 a month is goint to pay the rent. Now you can tell us how you get $50 a sign up and prove to us the cost of traffic is too expensive.

Be honest, could you afford to host those films on your own servers?

jack had tubes of his own, so yes.