Two Hundie Paul Markham Time Machine Tube Threads

if u cant believe Roald then just unplug your computer.

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bump for page 6

Actually Damian is spot on here.

Paysites opened and had it their way for ages. They loaded sites with the content they could afford, which was usually cheap and crappy. They priced it the way they wanted, they set the length of a join and often made it recurring and hid the cancel button. They even ripped off customers.

But they had it made, so long as the number of surfers increased faster then the ratios worsened.

Even PPV was the same, tiny clip, scene whether you liked it or not was yours no change it for another one policy, priced it at what they decided, often loaded sites with cheap content. Still if traffic numbers increased to make up for the decline all was fine.

Then quality traffic to sites started to level. The increase in Internet users in our prime billing market, the US, was reaching saturation point. Even in prime online porn buying countries like the UK the growth of Internet users was reaching a peak.

And then the real bomb shell hit. Tubes. And suddenly like with music the customer had a real viable option. The music industry as you point out responded. The online porn industry with all it's clever whiz kid guys who understood online marketing. Decided to put up more porn Tubes.

That has to be the most pathetic response to a threat ever.

What did I get wrong in my appraisal?

This dinosaur saw the opportunity of selling content already bought and paid for, with a profit, selling it online. And in 2000 we started up www.paulmarkham.com. Which very quickly exceeded all expectations. We had planned to make $300 a set. Didn't bother with video at first as we only had the old www.astral-blue.com content.

Then when people were clamoring for a different price structure and license we opened www.bargainbasementcontent.com put all the less well selling content in there and gave it a new life. Doubled out income on a set or video.

Sales were immediately well over $300 a set, then added video which again was well over $300 a scene. And the rest is history. Profit margin from the stores was 90%, as the content was paid for by sales to magazines. Even the video was free.

Never did open a paysite. We saw clearly the work involved looking after affiliates and we felt a site based on non English speaking girls would not be as good as one with. Look at www.astral-blue.com for what I feel is good video. Ignore the resolution, it was shot many years ago.

So it would mean going back to the UK, losing the magazine market and that was too risky. Also it would of meant shooting exclusive which would of meant losing the content stores market. Do the maths. 2000 magazine set, 3200 in the content store. Big big gamble. Meeting some of the people at shows, it was clear the big success guys were a very very small crowd.

Which online porn has failed to do in spectacular form.

Glad you and I agree on something.

Of the offline magazines some did come to the Internet. PRO, Score, Sullivan, Hustler, Playboy, Swank, Crescent did but being as they were run by crooks decided it was a place to rip people off. Did a lousy job at it though. Bookpress can be added to that list.

I had a sit down with Galaxy, they own Fiesta and Knave, well did last time I looked. And we discussed going online. Their problem was the bosses were print people not really magazine people and they vetoed our plans.

Must be more magazines, but can't think of any at the moment.

The DVD industry was between a rock and a hard place. Top retailers were telling them that if they went online in a big way, the shops would stop selling their DVDs. I guess they were making enough not to go online in a big way. Though some did and were successful.

Words on a board don't scare me, even loud mouth webmasters who don't have the bottle to confront me. Don't scare me. His size did surprise me, for some reason I imagined him weighing less than a dumper truck. Made me drop my glass of wine. :1orglaugh

This must be your longest thread ever.

Actually the original question is a good one and the only reason people aren't coming up with an answer is obvious. They know the stats would be embarrassing. We all have a rough idea of how many free surfers it takes to get a buying one.

You said that free killed magazines and DVD.

Then I explained why you were wrong.


HTH.

Anything else you're not sure about let me know.




PS Well done for buying paulmarkham.com.

PPS Why didn't you buy www.paulmarkhamteens.co.uk

?

Online porn, all of it, is a Micro market - and always has been. Then we have the "pc" internet micro market, which 'some' access the micro market of free/piracy porn. It alone is NOT large enough to actually "damage" the rest of the Porn Industry - the free/piracy porn is so damn small, that the rest of the porn Industry doesn't notice it.

"The industry's decision to embrace VHS in the early 1980s, for example, helped to do away with Sony Betamax, despite the latter format's superior quality. Video rentals soared from just under 80 million in 1985 to half-billion by 1993" (United States Only)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornogr..._United_States

Porn has ALWAYS moved with technology. VHS replaced theaters, DVD replaced VHS, Rentals hurt Stores, Internet killed the need for Stores, instant streaming are killing DVD's & rentals, and now Mobile is splitting the Market "again", a new type of rental/purchase of digital is happening and it's creating two Internet's as well.

The shift isn't bad, it isn't killing our Industry, it has been and will continue to EXPAND it!

Adult Video Sales and Rentals: 1992 ($1.6B in revenue) and in 2006 ($3.62B in revenue) peak was in 2005 at $4.28B
http://internet-filter-review.topten...tatistics.html

Magazines were going to shit well before Internet porn took off, porn DVD's sales grew while the Internet grew, technology has split the revenues of our Industry up more ways than we can count..BUT IT HAS GROWN! It's not just a game for a "handful" of dirty old men anymore like it was through the 80's, it's much more world wide now, much bigger than ever, and growing EVERY YEAR!


Blame whatever you like...it will never fix YOUR problem. End of the day if you're bitching, you're just broadcasting that you don't get todays porn market(s) and can't handle the business at todays level.

MISTER PEABODY'S KEYS TO ONLINE SUCCESS:

1. Get some content, doesn't matter what kind
2. Build some websites, doesn't matter what kind
3. Get some traffic, doesn't matter what kind
4. Make sales*

*How MUCH $ you will earn depends greatly on how hard you work and the volume of the above Keys.

sales were better when they sold betamax tapes in plastic bags.

it took me a few minutes to decifer this paragraph but i get what you are saying. online porn is a grain of sand on the Porn Industry beach.

i don't think the problem is the size of the industry. the online porn industry has continued to grow year-to-year. the problem is the number of players. most industries have a limited number of players. you can't just buy a truck and say you want to be in the international shipping business. there are huge barriers to entry.

online porn has no barriers to entry. as a result, there are way too many site owners taking a bite of the revenue cookie. no single player will ever get more than a dwindling piece of the cookie -- unless they start buying market share.

As someone who had no connection with offline porn, unless it's a secret, how would you know?

Damian this is your problem. You know nothing about the subject and then decide why it happened in your own head and it become fact. But only to you.

Why would people buy magazines when millions of images were free on the Internet via TGPs?

Didn't have to buy a membership, the images were there free. They weren't video buyers, they were magazine buyers. The DVD industry had already made it's effect on the magazine business. As soon as TGPs came out sales started to slide. I KNOW that talking to ADULT MAGAZINE editors, directors and owners.

I emailed the ex Editor in Chief of Paul Raymond Publications and he says at their peak Escort and Fiesta were doing 600,000 combined. Both Galaxy and PRP were audited by ABC. Seems you got it wrong.

Of course they were all lying and me, because Damian says so. :1orglaugh

Basically that's how it's done. Of course the better the content brand, members area, affiliates program, design is the better the site or sites will do.

The myth that there is something mystical and difficult about online paysite marketing is exposed as bullshit by the number of people doing it.

If it really was that hard, they could of got a programmer in, they could design their own site, buy or write a CMS and then employ Damian or similar to run the site. Cost of a programmer, depends on the level required. They're not expensive for building a paysite, design done in house, CMS a one off charge, Damian's not going to cost a fortune.

So nothing mysterious or marvelous.

a) lie or you would post the email with full headers so we could see
b) let's assume you're not lying (for a laugh), of course he would say that, bless

Got a link to one of their ABC certs then?

Well until you show some evidence, yes, I do think you're lying. It's all you do nowadays. Not maliciously this time, just trying to point score against Fabien.

2% of the population bought porn mags. Lol.

That's not true Paul. Only a handful of us ever made any really big money as affiliates. Yes, there were thousands of affiliates making a living and doing okay. But that can be said about ANY business. Including photography, musicians, etc.

You did really well in photography. Does that mean the "myth" about if being "mystical and difficult is bullshit" because BILLIONS of people own cameras and take pictures?
Of course not!

There are millions of kids who can do hammer-ons on a guitar. That don't make them Eddie Van Halen.

You are generalizing too much and painting everyone with the same brush.

You have some good points but your negating yourself from the discussion by trying to make absolute statements that just are not true when applied to the REAL people in this business.

Pirated content is moot and over rated. Not all surfers run to pirate sites infact hardly any do. The ones that do are often webmasters themselves looking for something to gank and in some cases own the sharing site and need content to pull in traffic.

When downloading pirated content surfers take the chance of a trojan or spyware.
If everyone wants to have a little bit of fun just take 10 minutes a day and pop in fake seeders. If every legit webmaster did that it would kill the Pirate bays and sharing immensely to the point of a waste of time for surfers.

IF 10 minutes a day every one of us did this for a year Piracy would have some huge problems. You can create 1000 fake seeds in a minute. Flood them and they will die.

If you need a few trojans I got a few.

The biggest issue with Paul - and I do respect his past work, and understand about his health issues (which facilitates, to some extent, his seemingly endless posts meaning he has the time to write them) - is that he feels everyone else is wrong, doesn't know shit, is doing it all WRONG, etc etc etc.

Paul: If so many of us were/are "wrong" as you constantly point out in almost every thread you either start or post in, then HOW do we manage to stay in business, make a living, feed our family, grow our businesses, etc etc?

Not everyone is against Paul but his never-ending rants about how others are wrong or are just not doing it right are tiresome and just plain inaccurate.

clueless. if you looked at the top 1000 adult sites i would bet less than ten were not free tubes and boards.

This is a very important and interesting point you make here. Yes, online porn in general has a very low barrier to entry. But this low barrier to entry gets you to the bottom of the hill, not to the top. In your analogy with international shipping, the low barrier to entry get's you basically to the equivalent of a packaging factory owner that serves a packaging company that in turn servers some international shipping company. It arguably also let's you climb the ladder faster than other industries, and there are a ton of the bottom level people in this industry.

BUT, the barrier to entry into the top league is by far bigger. It is still doable to make it big if you come to the right place at the right time, and have enough contacts in the industry, but from 0 to 100 is obviously very very hard. If it were this easy, we would have 500 big tube sites competing over the top 5 traffic ranks. But we do not. We have only a handful or two meaningful big tubes, with maybe 20 to follow which are decent in size and worth looking at, and then 500 small ones which combined have the size of tube #30.

That's not a low barrier of entry, that shows its actually becoming higher.

You make excellent points here sir. As market share "shifts" a division will occur and, as always, it's the people in the middle who will get pushed one way or the other (and ultimately OUT).

I saw this in the music industry. When I became a journalist in 1985 (I was a teenager, very much akin to the film 'Almost Famous') there were 50+ music magazines and, more importantly, 40+ record companies or more (including small but thriving "independant" labels).

Then, as we get closer to the Millenium, the bigger companies started gobbling up the smaller companies until, around 2002 or so, there were only 4 "major" labels left standing. FOUR. You may see dozens of "imprints" with this name or that but they're all owned by four major players.

EXCEPT - and here is where the Hope lies - for a second market, a smaller, more independant market, that emerged around 2003 via MySpace (remember them?). Musicians copied iTunes and mastered social media and brought their music directly to their fans/consumers via their own websites. Substitute "porn" for "music" and it's the same damn thing.

It was and always will be the "medium guys" that have the biggest issues here: too big to just go away, too little to compete and/or be gobbled up by the big boys. So they fight for dwindling market share and they tread water and trudge through until they lose enough to just bail or become desperate enough to accept pennies on the dollar for their years of hard work and web presence.

The "little guys" in the above scenario is where the Hope lies because a one or two or three person operation can "survive" (thrive) quite nicely on 400k a year, or 300k, or 200k, even 100k...

And when the "big boys" lose interest, or steam, or growth they will lose momentum, stagnate then their market share will dwindle. Meanwhile, one of the "little guys" will stumble unknowingly onto "the next big thing" and get rich and gain entry into the "big boys" and shake the whole thing up. Again. It's called a Cycle and it may take years for this to happen but it shall, no doubt.

How many can survive/thrive during all this depends greatly on their willingness to tough it out, stay flexible, work their asses off and wait for that Hope I mentioned to kick in. Good luck to us all. :)

Where did I say lots of people made lots of money being affiliates?

In fact if you read more of what I've said I actually said why affiliates found it tough. Too many of them.

Yes you made a lot of money giving away free legal content and now suffering from the free content available. You keep your fire aimed at piracy, as you know that directing it the whole problem would make you look silly.

Problem with getting conversions = Far too much free content online that has cost sponsors far too much money.

Results = Some people like Robbie made a lot of money promoting something that didn't need promoting. His and others like him big and small were so high, their needs were so well catered for the product suffered.

Outcome = In the early days only 1-100 of people consuming porn, were buying porn. Today that number is likely to be as low as 1-2,000 and the number of surfers it takes to get a sign up is probably growing.

Damian I knew that would be your response. If you met the David and he told you to your face you still wouldn't believe him. You're an irrelevance.

Piracy is bloody annoying to the producers. However the reason for the decline of online is isn't piracy. It's free porn. Teaching surfers that porn doesn't need to be paid for, when you're trying to sell it, is the stupidest thing ever. Even from the early days it was obvious so many were getting off without paying.

The biggest issue with Peabody is he has a low target. He misses the fact that 99.05% of people who like porn don't have to buy it. Set your targets higher.

I never said the system doesn't work totally. I never said a lot of people could make a living.

What I say is a lot of people missed out on making millions. Some Billions. Porn should be easy to sell, it never was that hard. Today it's been turned into hard work.

If you think giving the product you're trying to sell, away for free. Is good business please explain how it works. Bad business still makes money, just not as much. Unless you're like Robbie was and earning a living from the bad business practices. Even he could of made 10 times more if the bar was set higher to entry to online porn.

It's all free now... adapt.

The reason being stemmed from youtube... then all the tubes. But just because you give the content (which you shot in past) for free does not mean you can't sell something.

What is that something?? food for thought

This is the best post you've ever made.

The revenue cookie has a limited size. Online porn, if you review stats, is predominately bought by North American residents. Then EU, then, AU, then Japan (they tend to buy Japanese). Might be slightly wrong and people can correct me.

So the number of players in the business has an enormous effect on the income of everyone. Even a very small player earning enough to give him an evening job is taking a bite at the cookie. If you have a 1,000 of them working as affiliates earning $1,000 a month. They are taking $1,000,000 a month from the full timers. (Numbers as an example)

If you have 1,000 affiliates making just enough to work from home, earning $5,000 a month that's $5,000,000 taken out of the pockets of the rest of the affiliates.

Then relate that to paysite. How many porn paysites are there. From those like mine make a few $1,000 to Brazzers? If all the small fish disappeared, none of the buyers would.

Now add in the main way of promoting themselves, from top to bottom.

Too give away free porn.

Not only are they all taking a bite from the cookie, there main way of promoting themselves is making the cookie smaller.

It doesn't matter if you own a small site or Brazzers. You're all suffering. You're all biting from the same cookie and you're all making the cookie smaller.

Solution is to move on from what you've given away for free for a decade.

Or keep going and watch the cookie get smaller. Today many are dropping out, so less biters. Is the the cookie still shrinking? Depends who you talk to.

MisterPeabody. This is why you just make enough to clothe and feed your family. If you could jump a higher bar, you would of made so much more. Are you confident you could of jumped it?

Even at the bottom of the hill they take from you at the top. When they load the Internet with free porn they take 2 ways. Providing an alternative to buying from you and loading the Internet with free porn. Every small site getting sign ups, takes from you. Every Tube with low traffic takes from you.

The porn moguls of the past were in printed porn. Because the bar was set at a height that few could get in. Flynt, Heffner, Guccioni, Raymond, Desmond, Sullivan, Gold and probably more made enough to kick into different areas of business. Yes Guccioni screwed up and fell. The odds of an online guy guy passing them are extreme. No one not even you will achieve that. Why.

Too many little fish nibbling at your food.

Even for those who can get into the top tier, it's not a real top tier. When compared with printed porn.

The bar was lower for filmed porn once video tape was available. Now digital is available the bar is lower.

Yes I'm one of those who could shoot, market and sell film stills porn. I would of never of made $3,000 a set if anyone could do it.

You would of had to pay $500,000 for Mansef if the bar were higher to online porn and it would of been worth far more. The only winner in the low bar game is the small fish.

Am I alone in my thinking? https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1021780

adapt rather then fix the problem? great solution ( if there is a problem )

btw if i remember correctly youtube started with free user submited content and still now
most vids are that.

oh and i searched for some Movies currently screening in cinemas and guess what..i couldn't find them on you tube!

Adapt = Open more Tubes sites.

Adapt = Get out of online porn.

Adapt = Do nothing.

When I read that Manwin plan to open or buy more Tubes I wonder who is really adapting.

"We have only a handful or two meaningful big tubes, with maybe 20 to follow which are decent in size and worth looking at, and then 500 small ones which combined have the size of tube #30."

Are they planning to open a paysite that will set the bar even higher for other paysites?

Are they planning to give members the greatest online porn ever?

No they plan to add to the pile of available free porn and think that's setting the bar higher. :upsidedow :upsidedow

When you read this thread you get the impression most of the posters are small fish and scared that with a high set bar they wouldn't be able to compete. When your read the biggest fish is thinking like a small fish you have to wonder the future of the industry.

Fabian, here's a challenge to you. Sit down with me and let's figure out how to fix the problem. Not add to it.

Assuming there is a fix. If there's not your $100,000,000 investment might be not so great. Unless you can gobble up all the small fish before the decline hits you.

:Oh crap:Oh crap

youtube hasn't made a profit to date. Google bought youtube back in 2006 and it has not contributed 1 dime to profitability.

I'm not talking about the same 'ol... same 'ol... I'm talking about getting the traffic and selling it a different way... that way... my friend... is the future

Yep, scraping the bottom of the barrel is the future. :thumbsup

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1021720 Remember the good old days. :1orglaugh

Are you agreeing with me or making fun of me? I can't really tell...

My point was that youtube... (the innovator in tube sites)... is not profitable. So the model does not work... but with everything, there are sales to be made.

My point to you Paul, content producers are not going to make money, the way to make money is what i haven't said yet... but with the traffic will come the sales

See? We all know tubes (set up the way they are) aren't going to make sales... that's a given

And I know, as does everyone, you are a pointless liar. You said you a publisher had asked you to write a pdf. Lie. Or you would simply post their email with the offer. You said you had an email from a publisher backing up your lies. Another lie, or you would jsut post the email to make me look stupid (with full headers obv, or you could have just written it). And you quote one of thebutcher's fake nicks from sponsorcockchat to make a point. Another lie. You said you needed glasses and begged for money, another lie.

You're building up a nice record, liar.

Keep going. In a few months, if you keep up these demonstrable lies, no one will believe anything you say anymore.

/me shakes his head.

Adapt = Suck the cock of piracy for 3k whilst making your paid for manwife work in an office to cover your rent on the hut in the cabbage field.

http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-conte...chris-rock.jpg

http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-conte...chris-rock.jpg

Hilarious.

Agreed there are sales to be made.

My point is how many, by the method we use?

Revenue in porn used to be fantastic. And in the early days of the Internet it was fairly good. The damage done to offline porn was ignored, as was the route reason of the damage. Ratios were ignored, because a lot of people were making a living.

Still makes no difference to the core problem. 99 in 100 were not buying. This was at a time when most traffic was from the prime countries. Still as you say sales were being made and those lost were ignored.

Today the biggest player in online porn isn't telling us of his plans to open paysites that will shake the market. not telling us they're going to raise the level of what they sell from existing sites. They're going to open more Tubes or buy up the good ones. Which will mean more given away and less sales.

Damian is typical of the online porn industry today. A lot of people working from home on their own scraping a living. The height of his career was 1995 when he ran a team of people for Haymarket. Since then the slide has been downhill all the way.

To working as an employed "marketing consultant".
Then a self employed "marketing consultant".

Who does a great job at making himself look stupid and needs no help from me.

Paul,

your arguments would all be valid if the whole industry was actually declining. But it simply is not.

Your comment about me never achieving what the old porn moguls achieved, is simply put, wrong. I already have. You just do not realize it! My company currently has 4 offices around the world. We are likely growing that to 6-9 (depends on a few upcoming things) in the next 3 months. We are also planning to grow from roughly 500 to 800 employees in the next 6 months. (and btw, our german office has 2 floors, is built for 150 people, has 3 men's and 3 women's bathrooms with each 2 stalls, 2 urinals or 4 stalls respectively...)

You really have very little understanding of the size of online porn. You will possibly grasp it at some point, but clearly that point has not arrived yet.

It is always entertaining to read your comments. I think there is a lot of truth to them, and if you would accept that certain things are simply different than you think, you would likely actually have very good ideas come out of these rants. Sadly you are basing your comments on false facts which simply keep you from actually saying anything useful...

Lastly, never forget that good companies usually have plans outlined for the long term. I am no different. If you truly think what you see today is where I will stay, then you have completely underestimated the potential of what I have built so far.

I am looking forward to proving you wrong.

Almost no sales from my 2 tubes.

A fool is concerned about the 99 who say no, while the wise man is focused on the 1 who says yes.

When I see you listed in a Rich List, then I will sit up and take notice.

Or your company. As it's all secret so I will take your statement under advisement.

I know exactly how big online porn is. It's the biggest supplier of porn ever. Never before has there been so many people consuming porn, never has it been so easy, never has the selection on offer been so vast.

But it's at best 0.1% BUYING porn. And that's a very generous estimate.

At the moment I've no doubt the big fish are gobbling up the little ones. But you're picking up falling ratios. When the small fish have gone, will you be able to stop the decline?

Growing at the rate you're growing and the decline of porn sales, be careful. A big fish needs a lot of food. That food might not be there and their declining revenues will become your declining revenues. Then what will you do?

Maybe close all the Tube sites. :1orglaugh

What are the false facts I'm basing my argument on?

My argument is dead simple. Supplying a product for free that's easy to sell is costing sales.

I see I have another person who agrees with me.

Why supply free porn to the 999 when the 1 person who pays is the one who counts. Glad you agree with me. :thumbsup

1. Make tube site.
2. ???
3. Profit!

Chances are the 1 person didn't set out to buy a membership and they for sure didn't set out to buy a membership at that site. They more likely found something they liked by surfing free porn, then purchased it, and without that free porn that 1 person wouldn't have ever found that site.

I know you don't get it yet but I'll keep trying.