Too bad it's not that simple.... without free porn, nobody would be looking for "you" - it would 100% go down to the people with the most money then.

And whatever methods people could 'look up porn' it would be clogged with sites, much like a keyword on Google is, but this would be like a billion times worse.

Without question, without free porn, you would have been out of business long ago. The people would have still shifted either way, but you wouldn't have anything to attract them with and no doubt marketing wise none of us smaller folks would have been able to compete when it matted the most.

Paul what is your POINT here? People shouldn't give away free porn? Too late. People aren't making as MUCH as they COULD (or as you did) "back in the day". Okay, nice history lesson.

Your "solutions" are all theory as they exist in a vacuum, meaning you won't actually IMPLEMENT any of them because you are unable to. So keep dishing out your theories. LOL Anyone can do the same.

Your rants aren't fixing anything, just contributing to the belief that you are out of touch.

PS: Don't bet against Nathan. Ever.

Yeah. You are fucking brilliant when you try.

Go on, post about me being a magician. Or post about the flat you still think I live in. Or just try and insult me by swearing and calling me stupid. That is always brilliant fun.

PS Still not back to B&B? You're such a pussy. JT tells you off once and you hide like a girl?

:D

Sorry for the n00b question, but what EXACTLY is a 'Tube Site' ?

Oh is that all it is? "Bloody annoying"?

You should get your ass over here and talk to some of your old employers like Larry Flynt face to face and ask HIM what piracy is doing. Or ask any of the guys producing content.

Just come over here and go to a show. Just the difference in the shows themselves is unreal.

Back when free content was being used by TGP's to promote was when Internext had an entire Hall at the Sands Expo Center at the Venetian.
This year? Internext had a room smaller than my living room...I am not making that up.

That did not happen from armies of affiliates making hundreds of millions of dollars for paysites.
That happened over the last few years from armies of pirates making ZERO money for paysites and causing people to NOT join.

"Bloody Annoying"? Yeah, tell that to all the companies who already closed down Paul. It's much, much more than that. It is STEALING.

Holy crap! I have that idiot Nathan on Ignore but just read where Paul quoted one of his posts and read this:
"then you have completely underestimated the potential of what I have built so far."

What YOU built? HOLY FUCK! Talk about re-writing history! LOL

Nathan, you didn't build anything! You're a clown for Christ's sake! You front a company that BOUGHT a company that had already been built on the back of STEALING other people's content.

You didn't even have anything to do with that sorry ass track record.

Man, you are something else. What a piece of work.

bump for page 5

I love you too Robbie! Always fun as usual... I do not think you will ever get it, you are one of those people... Paul might actually get it at one point in the near future.. you, hardly.

I believe I posted ratios and CTR multiple times in this thread. Your memory must be withering. Do you remember that you have a CCBill affiliate program? Hypocrite or can't beat 'em join 'em?

There are many many things for sale online, much more than you can pick up physically at a store, some of these things don't even physically exist, yet a large amount of that traffic is looking for porn. What percentage of people walking into a gas station even look at the dirty mags let alone buy one? This is the biggest point it seems you will never realize.

Do the auto mags blame streetfire.net for hurting their business by giving away free videos showing exotic cars? No, because they are two different worlds.

All you ever have to say is how the amount of free porn is hurting the industry, as if it's news, it doesn't take 35 years in porn to realize that, any 12 year old could come to that realization. You have little to no experience marketing online and wonder why your solutions are shot down by everyone and aren't as successful online as you are offline. Not to mention how you call the entire online part of the industry idiots on an adult webmaster forum... online. And expect people to agree with you and think you're some kind of genius?

You said yourself that people have to work too hard now to sell porn. So how the hell are the handful of full timers going to do 1,000 peoples worth of work?

Again, summing up an entire industry into one enormously general statement and effectively calling everyone idiots while expecting them to agree with anything you have to say.

And they even pay people to upload videos that receive a lot of views and burn up bandwidth. LOL, Google are idiots though right Paul?

Kidding right? Pot kettle blah blah blah :1orglaugh

two Fitty tube sales

man, putting Markham on ignore makes these threads useful and worth reading!

his blathering mag loving garbage just wastes time and monitor real estate.

.

I was just going to ask the same question...how are you guys doing on pornhub?

It's a dream that people will stop giving away free porn, they're trapped. Affiliates demand it and if they don't get it they don't promote. So affiliates now control the industry in this sector. Blame the idiots who first thought up the idea of giving away free porn and creating a barrier to paysites.

Even if you only promote your own sites. You're trapped. The barrier between you and the buyer is free porn, unless you're a wizard at SEO. Even then a lot of that traffic goes directly to free sites. Adwords might work for some so there's the option.

Agreed the money earned today is a fraction of what it was. Free porn hit offline porn and now it's damaging online porn. The damage isn't finished. Adapt of die will soon mean, get out your CV. Or go to mainstream.

Agreed. Doesn't mean I shouldn't think of them or post them. The saddest thing is those who could implement them are buying Tube sites. :(

Yes I'm out of touch. I think the solution lies in the product we sell and not in free porn. Shit I'm really out of touch.

Buying more major Tubes will give him tons more traffic. What's he going to sell that traffic is all I'm interested in. I might bet he won't come up with anything spectacular in terms of the product.

As someone who has been going to offline porn shows for 20 years I've never seen an offline porn show smaller than an online one. As they allow in the real people who matter in business, the customer. I doubt if what you said was true.

What I did hear from around 1998 was the complaints that free porn was damaging sales. Then as TGPs took over the traffic game the complaints got louder. Really in disbelief that online had to give porn away to sell it. The underlying theme was free porn will bite you in the ass.

Even in your heyday as a distributor of free porn you were getting more people off for free than you were ever selling to.

Yes piracy is a pain in the neck and bloody annoying. But has not done 1/10 of the damage to the porn industry legitimate porn did by giving the product away.

This is where the damage is being done.

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?&w=40...u=youporn.com&

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?&w=40...rdsextube.com&

That's around 8 million surfers who are tracked by Alexa logging into 9 Tubes. Fabian recently boasted he had 20 million a day. Alexa shows 1.5 million. If he gets 10 times what's shown, so do the rest. 90 million people a day logging into a porn Tube on those sites listed. If it converts at 1-2,000 and that's generous. That's only 45,000 buyers.

1-5,000 = 18,000

Free porn not piracy is what's harming this business. Piracy can be fought against, not easy but the legal cases are on all the time. Free porn from what most write can't be fought against.

Think of the porn world TGPs created. 90,000,000 looking at porn and 89,982,000 getting off and fucking off.

All for free.

You were just in at the beginning and started the snowball rolling.

Like I said when I see Fabian listed in a German Rich Person list, I'll take his claims seriously.
Anyone speak German and have access to the German Rich List?

Paul, who ever said tubes is the only thing I am buying? :)

There is a 85+ page document which explains what I am doing.. only very few people know the details. But it will become more and more clear over the next months...

Do not underestimate me Paul ;)

Paul, rich lists are for people that brag...

Either way, you are mid-reading Alexa. What you showed in graphs does not say 1.5m people a day. It says 1.5% of all people online/tracked by Alexa.

And we do not have 20m visitors a day.. Far from it...

Paul, I think everyone should stop giving you a hard time. Your contribution to this thread is BRILLIANT.

Let's precis:

1) Free porn is bad
2) Piracy isn't a problem
3) We should spend more on content

I've never heard anyone, especially you, offer such insight into an industry before. Where did you get your MBA? I bet you've done that sigma six thing too.

Astounding.

Thanks for taking the time out of your busy day to share.

Love you, champ.

x

Robbie must have an awesome house. If his living room is 70.000 sq ft.

http://www.********.com/read.php?ID=48450

Clueless...you are not reading the graphs correctly...thus your numbers are all wrong. Clueless is as clueless does.

I would actually love to see Manwin do something spectacular in the sales line. Other than give away more free porn. You know that from my emails. You know my line is to step up the product, do something that sets you apart from the rest. My posts are all about that.

If selling online porn is to survive it needs paying surfers. not people who will be dating or cams. Because if free cams come out, that income stream is screwed. Dating sites customers will also learn that free is available.

Until I see the plans or the results, I have nothing to estimate you on other than what I see. Other than what you write in emails.

Rich lists are the only indication I have. So they are also for people to see what others are worth.

1.5% of all online people people tracked by Alexa?

OK from here I got the US population.

http://geography.about.com/od/obtain...population.htm

From here average daily usage online

http://www.pewinternet.org/Static-Pa...-20002009.aspx

1.5% = 4,650,000 just US Alexa users. And I suspect 2011 it's not less.

What's the % of non buyers you're missing out on?

You are making what you make, it should climb. By making the climb awesome on the traffic you have. you need something to SELL them better than what yu have.

To gobble up more traffic and only do that for your growth is bad business in a declining market. You need to get more out of what you have today.

I await the news.

It does not matter how many non paying users I have on my tubes. All that matters is that I control them.

It looks like best is to make tube nowdays

if paul or the doc actually understood the power/value of a tube site

they would realize that your control really doesn't exist.

22 minutes of changes is all it would take to wipe out your control.

Control of surfers. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

http://www.businessblogshub.com/wp-c...ding_sheep.jpg

Something like this?

Unless you have them tied up like this you don't have control of them.

They are just people coming to your site consuming free porn. Maybe you're hoping a big player will buy Manwin for $billions, like Microsoft bought Skype. Dream on.

You need to sit down and think of something to maximise the revenue from each surfer. Not maximise the surfers and minimise the revenue from each.

One thing we've all learnt in the last 10-15 years is. You don't control surfers.

They make their own decisions without a lot of control from us. If we could of controlled them we would of never of given them free porn. In fact giving them free porn was the fastest way to lose control of potential customers.

The power/value of any Tube is what?

You've never explained that, or I missed it.

However your bullshit is exposed by the 22 minutes statement. :1orglaugh

But Nathan has the wisdom of Umgang Dumme Menschen on his side... which states - once played, it trumps the 22 minutes of change in all situations.

And yeah, poor Google, Facebook, Twitter and so on - all stupid for not getting the value of peoples information, those complete morons, idiots, broke fools if you ask me.

Can you sum it up Fabian? What's your plan, on a macro level?

Exactly what info are they getting?

"They like free porn" :Oh crap

Never put an email into a Tube, so all they have is my IP address and my surfing habits. Good luck monetising that.

Again a blinkered "It works in Mainstream." clown. Comes up with nothing.

The only control Manwin has is they're on one of their free sites, consuming their free porn. It locks the company into a box unless he can monetise that traffic. The big question is. Beyond what they currently do what's the odds of getting more money per surfer?

Getting more surfers who don't want to pay for porn to sell them porn in a declining market seems to me a not so bright thing. So unless Manwin come up with something awesome to SELL. Where are they?

They are supplying free surfers with free porn. The moment they cut off the free porn, the "control" is negated. If it ever was control.

Now the danger is. How much would it cost to set up another Youporn and sell it to Manwin?

Hosting
CMS
Design
Traffic.

Content to be donated by "uploaders" and sponsors keen to give away their product.

All the time the site is making money, off setting the costs.

Which would be what?

Or for one of the smaller guys to inflate his Tube and then for him to sell it off?

You really need to sit back and think a little more on this.... Control isn't about telling them what to do, it's much more than that.

All he has to do is listen, test, provide and move on. For example, if any of us here came up with a new cool idea - a new niche/film idea lets say. We all basically have to open an entire site, do everything related to that and hope like hell we pull it off.

Nathan only has to provide 1 clip and millions of people will tell him if it's the right thing to do or not, and if not he can tweak it until it's a hell yes, and then all he has to do is provide that to them - being that he can limit it's free exposure to millions of people, or build up a base of interested buyers before the product is even done so once it is done he already knows the percentage of buyers he would have.

That's the level of control he has and that's just a minor example of it.

That's wrong idea of control. You need to think of what control really is.

Manwin's Tubes ONLY get surfers because they get free porn in amounts and ways better than other sites. The moment they slow down on that, surfers move on.

Even while the surfers are on his site, he has no control over them. He can't make them click a link, he can't make them buy after clicking that link.

No you and I have a totally different idea of what the word control is. It's not and has never been test marketing.

At the moment free surfers control the free sites. Give us the most or we fuck off to who will. That's control when Manwin jumps up and gives them what they demand.

"For example, if any of us here came up with a new cool idea - a new niche/film idea lets say."

Let's say pigs can fly, if we're going that far. What new cool ideas, new niches or film ideas have you seen come up recently?

Yes if a site comes out with a new way of shooting a new niche and has a cool way of shooting. Then he can test it. Or the site can tell him to fuck off and do without him. Still no control. Whether in your mythical world the idea sprouts up, Manwin still need that person to allow them to promote it.

No sales at the moment. :)

Control has nothing to do with making people do anything.... your idea of control is greatly incorrect.

The minute a better facebook comes along the users will move on, that goes for google or even paid products like apple. That's business, good job stating the natural progress of business - and it's also natural for them to keep trying to improve things - through testing.

All types of new porn has been created in the last 5, 10 and 15 years... far more than I can list.

I saw some funky ass bondage shit posted on gfy about a week ago, it was unique as well. However, what I said was only an example of "one thing" he could do, it doesn't have to be new it could be improved and it doesn't have to be porn directly.

It could be improved players, new technology in more ways than I can list, improved filtering from traffic to piracy, server-host technology, filming process, and again more things than I can list - it's endless.


Testing is EVERYTHING.... It's what gave us Robust Spaghetti Sauces when for years people 'thought' they loved original Italian. Testing proved that people have no f'in clue what they want/like and they can't even explain it, that's why you have to test.. Provide them with options so they TELL YOU what they ACTUALLY like vs. what YOU think they like based off hearsay.

all ads on the manwin tubes are run through traffic junky anyway.

it's their advertisers who are testing and tweaking ... and buying.

Paul comes from an eastern-european country where "control" means an Iron Curtain. :D

Think of "control" this way Paul: you own a mall, you got a lot of stores in there. Sure, you cannot FORCE people to buy jewelry or clothes or visit this shop or that, people will make their own decisions. BUT - at least they are in YOUR mall, not the one down the road. So your CHANCES of making $ off all those people in your Mall goes WAY up.

How well you do, how many customers and sales you generate, depends on the quality of your products (your point), how well you sell those products (our point) and all the other little marketing/advertising tricks to make money.

I hope this clears up "control".

This thread started out interesting but now it's becoming a fucking pain. Never seen anyone this stubborn in my life.

Very true. LOL

I actually like what is going on with pornhub (other than that we STILL have to DMCA all of the time) - it looks more like a TGP did in the old days, just with 5 minute clips and links to where you can join the sites.

I always thought if you had done this from the beginning tubes could have been just like a souped up TGP, but they never would have gotten the amount of traffic they did without so much full length videos.

It seems to me (and I might be wrong) that Mandwin is mostly posting their licensed content for the full-length and let those who still want to see upload with a link, I think it's a step in the right direction.

If they carried their through all of their tubes, things might actually improve.

The only money I ever made with tubes was when I sold mine, so if they've figured it out, good one them.

:2 cents:

The problem is "choice".

This is the first link I see on Pornhub: http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=742838667

Looks EXACTLY like it always did.

And here is a sponsored vid from Penthouse: http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=857919786

One text link above the video...then the rest of the page spammed up so hard with pre-paid ad spots that it's a joke.

One of the FIRST things I learned in marketing is to focus. And if you're going to use some valuable real estate on a page to sell something else...don't make it look spammy.

Me and everyone I know that KNOWS how to make money on a freesite would look at that and see nothing but an amateurish page that is designed to do nothing but get views on an ad that is pre-paid.

Pornhub guys have NO idea how to market a paysite from that page.