Ok so you still have to watch the calories :disgust I thought maybe the trade off was if you eliminate all carbs you could eat all the fat you wanted (maybe I misinterpreted Atkins) and would naturally still lose weight because your body goes into ketosis with no carbs.

But figures you still have to watch calories too which is double hard. :)

Like shimmy and the other fellow said if you could just eliminate all simple sugars first that is a great start for the average Joe like me to begin. :)

I notice if you have no sugars in the house and cook almost all your own food you naturally lose weight. But sugar is so hard to resist.

You really just have to go on the "don't buy it diet" :)

Great thread. Solid advice. :thumbsup

what are the carb allowances for atkins? i was under the impression one does not go into ketosis on atkins? for me, i don't hit ketosis until my daily carbs drop below about 25g.

but, yes, you are correct though, if you cut carbs entirely, you need to up your fat intake and most MOST important is to keep an eye on your protein and make sure you are getting all you require. also, total cals will always count. you can be in ketosis and still get fat if you are over-eating.

Cory is pretty much an expert on this, he'll be able to weigh-in on this with some super solid info. marketsmart prolly has some input he can provide on this too

Sorry the "other fellow" in my last comment was Cory. :)

I notice that refined sugar or simple sugars like pasta go right to the belly and when you quit eating them you have to keep tightening the belt.

No doubt sugar is a nauseating crippler of our society and refined foods in general are.

And if your diet is 80% on target but the other 20% is junk forget about it.

I think a lot of it is how the liver converts simple sugars to fat so easily. I once gained 10 LBs in a week (a few years ago) and the only thing I did diff was eat an entire Betty Crocker cake (from mix, no frosting) in about 2 days.

I also was not watching calories but the belief is I would have to consume 35,000 calories above my weekly maintainence to put on 10 lbs. But I was nowhere near that. And it was not water weight. Real fat weight in the belly.

So sugar is so tied into weight gain and not all tied to calories. You just cant eat it and think you will slide by. The liver notices.

I dont know if they spell out a number of grams but they def talk about going into ketosis by cutting out virtually all simple carbs. Then you could have pretty much all the protein and fats you want as well as fibrous veg.

Apparently there is a self regulating appetite mechanism or maybe you just get tired of cheese and steak and you dont eat as much.

Agreed tho, seems if you consume more calories than normal you still wont lose weight so it is sort of self defeating for a guy who needs to lose a few lbs to cut carbs. He is better off to cut sugars and watch calories and the latter being most important.

Still if you have 2500 calories of cake (in theory) you should not gain anymore weight than 2500 cals of heathy foods. But the reality is the high simple sugars even tho the same calories will put the weight on via the liver.

That is the theory I have so it is mostly about counting calories but they must still be "good" calories. :)

Just trying to figure it out. :)

processed sugar is tied to weight gain. you'd have a hard time getting fat on a diet of apples, for instance. or even bananas.

the fiber makes the difference.

in addition to keeping the sugar in its natural state. :thumbsup

And one more thing.. the way you have mastery over your body makes you an expert. :)

All my babble is words, you get it done :thumbsup

What do you do when you really are craving a bowl of pasta with a lil parmesan? :) Or a little chocolate. That is the hard part of diets. Maybe if I was on some medical mj (I could prob get it in Cali :) ) I could just bake (ahem healthy dishes :) ) and post all day. :)

Seriously when you are posting you (mostly) are not eating.

Thanks man. I am starting to fig it out. I have eaten a lot of sugar in my diet even tho the rest of my diet is very good.

Lately I gave it up for a week. And I mean none in the house. Only the sugarless candy with maltinol. And I lost 5 lbs in like 3 days seriously.

Then I went and made the mistake of buying just a couple lil sweets to have "over a long time" :1orglaugh and you guessed it.. right to the belly, 2 LBs back on virtually overnight.

But I am still down about 3 lbs overall so out with the damn sugar! :)

I actually minored in "community health" (dont ask me why) but in the 80's they didnt really know as much. Plus I was more of a professional student who forgot everything after the tests. :)

They told me sugar and simple carbs were bad but that weight was based solely on calories. They did not realize all the metaphysical changes to the mind, mood, weight gain, ect it does to you. It gives you a quick lift and tastes so good to the point of releasing endorphens and making you high, which is why it is good. But then it rots inside you basicly.

The horror stories I could tell with me and sugar. Ive eaten 12-16 oz of chocolate easily. (well actually easily at the moment, then I wake up feeling terrible and I mean bad, sick, then do it again and again over and over.) If there is some in the house i will wake up go get it bring it back to bed (half asleep) and altho i remember doing it, I am literally powerless if it is in the house.

"don't buy it diet" is the only way for some of us. It works. If it is not in the house you can get by without it. :)

Its interesting, I actually learned all of this by "accident." Firstly, the main premise of what Dyna Mo says I totally agree with, and its the most important and essential: You have to learn what your body can and can't eat. If you ask me if he and I are on the same diet, I say yes every time; that's because the learning process is the main driving force in it all. Most people absolutely never get this. Now, a bit more on the reason that I say this.

I lived most of my 20s with bad stomach issues, I was in and out of ERs and Dr offices. I was diagnosed with everything from irritable bowel to anxiety. I grew up, like many here, in a family that didn't really understand diet. My mom told me to finish my plate, we ate a ton of fast food. I had sports coaches telling me to load up on pastas, Doritos and even candy bars. When I was a kid in Louisiana, I honestly thought that a Snickers could replace a meal (as the advertisement led us to believe). In college, I was an English major. I also still believed that a Snickers bar was a healthy meal supplement (while dissecting Nabakov). Throughout my childhood and 20s, not only did I battle stomach issues, but I also battled bloating issues (face, neck, stomach). I could never figure out why the hell one hour, I looked one way, the next, I looked (and felt) so much different. I used to think it was weather, or temperature, until I finally started to just think I was plain crazy.

In my late 20s, the Atkins diet came along and for some reason, I was totally sold. My entire life was spent never doing any sort of diet, but this one appealed. Immediately, of course, I lost weight. But something else stood out: I wasn't bloated nearly as much. Also, I was really happy (explain in a bit). I recall being so happy, having the times of my life. But then the condemnation came, friends, Drs, all telling me how absolutely unhealthy I was being. How I was just being a follower of some rogue marketing campaign. How we need our carbs. How I was going to have a heart attack. It made 0 sense to me though, I felt amazing.

Then came the complex carb fiasco. By 30, weight gain had kicked in, it was all primarily in my stomach. Also, worse more, my anxiety began to become a real issue. My anxiety became something that concerned me so much that I honestly didn't think I could live the rest of my life out in that condition. Of course, I blamed stress at work, stressful romantic lives, getting older, that's just life, all that. I went to a DR over it, they gave me Paxil and sent me on my way. A few years went by, I began self-medicating every night with wine. Nothing could make me happy. I even began going back to the gym on a daily basis, working out really hard, and well, thinking I was eating well. But instead of losing weight, I was gaining fat in my stomach and face.

Then one day I came home, so miserable, fatigued, depressed, the full gamut. And at that moment, I suddenly thought back to when I was on Atkins (something I hadn't thought of in ages). At that moment, I decided I was only going to eat meat and veg only. No sauces, nothing. The funniest part in all of this is that I was so totally desperate for any kind of change, that I didn't even know what change I wanted? I wanted anything. On the third day of this, I began to feel great. I began to feel so great that I started running the steps in West Hollywood. After a week of this, I thought I should add in more carbs. One morning at work, I ate two pieces of wheat bread. I almost collapsed. But more than fatigue, I realized something that changed the rest of my life: the anxiety was back. You see, I never really attached that my decreased anxiety and the dietary alteration were in sync. At that point, I realized one thing: The food going into my body effected WAY more than just my weight, it was the centerpiece to my moods, positivity, energy levels, bloating, skin, etc.

The two killers for me: Fructose and Gluten. Hands down. I am a totally different person with, and without them (preferring the latter, clearly). The point in this is that my weight loss was a mere by-product of the other incredible effects that the diet had on me. I remember the first time I went out after clearing that out of my system, the weight was one of the last things that people noticed?whites of my eyes, my skin, my general happiness. I remember having rashes on my legs that I thought were just normal, like, I mean, they'd been there for over 10 years. They were gone within 5 days. Not to mention my focus is now through the roof. And to tell you the truth, I don't miss any of that other food, not one single bit.

In Sharky's thread, him being prescribed Adderol really took me back. If I break my arm, I will go to the DR and ask them to put a cast on. I will never go to a DR over dietary needs, anxiety, weight gain, etc. They don't know shit about it. It took me a long time to learn that.

These days, I box at night. Not like aerobic boxing, but real boxing. I eat some broccoli, spinach and chicken before I go. I never get tired. So for me, while I love the being fit portion, its so much more for me.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give some clarification on where I come from. : )

We have all been there. It gets easier man, no matter what exact path you end up on, it gets easier. I used to go to the store when I was depressed, get donuts, doritos, salsa....all for one sitting. Believe me....I can relate. And its why I am never really shy about sharing my story.

I don't have one friend that eats even close to me man....but at some point, you just realize that you are a strong person. I belong to some forums for it as well, it always helps when you read things and can relate to others. Once you cross over, you belong to a different sect of people, and it feels great. You have an advantage over other people in every way.

Congrats but a few points.

A. it could be fluid loss.

Show us 3 pictures.
1. before the 12 days
2. after the 12 days
3. a few hours after drinking 3 litres

B. you have way less than 5% body fat!

C. you're an Ectomorph. Tall skinny f@cker!

Doesn't matter how much you starve, half of people will just have 3 inch wide legs and STILL have love handles.

Dude, give it up! The human body wasn't designed to carry around big muscles and no fat, the shredded look is just a view of what we look like underneath.

Get youself up to a healthy +10% heavier weight, keep your heart and circulation in check and you won't have any health risks to worry about down the track! Keep the photos and return to normal!

Wow awesomely motivating. :thumbsup Let me respond I got a million thoughts.

Wow I needed to hear that. Thanks. When you know there really is a trade off to giving up the sugar and corn syrup and start to really see and feel the diff and know that is the reason, then you can quit cold turkey and never look back. Sugar is really so artificial to our systems it is really messing us up. :)

Now back to your other post.. couple thoughts coming up..

I'm fucking dying....... 4.8lbs to go by 6pm tomorrow




http://chrisbarden.com/personalpics/4lbs.jpg

me too amigo. :thumbsup

lolz, too funny. this is truly the bottom line. figuring it out for yourself. that's all i am doing. there's so much info out there- eat this, don't eat that. do 10 reps 3x a week, do 5 reps 1x a week. the only way to see is to give it a whirl. i am figuring out what works for me and what i am capable of doing on a daily basis based on what makes me happy.

First time I did it, I went to Whole Foods and bought two enormous NY Steaks. It comforted me. I had nightmares also for about a week.

I learned from one of the forums to always use the word "allergy" around other people at first, just so, and wait for it, they didn't feel like you were commenting on their lives by turning down cake. You see, its easier to tell someone you will die if you eat the cake than it is to tell them that you think its horrible for the body. : ) Because they feel like you are remarking on them. Food is like religion. Its an amazing discovery its all been, that's for sure.

But the fact that you are posting in this thread already puts you ahead of 90 percent of people. In one year you will laugh at how easy it actually is.

hfcs is the one thing i will strive to never eat again. ever. everything else is a choice, moderation of course, but corn syrup is amazingly bad stuff.

is that doable? time for the plastic body suit??/

What are your thoughts on that term now though? I go to Starbucks, they have no HFCS, but the crap they are pushing is pretty damn loaded with sugar : )

Ok, first of all my neighbor, a lil wirey guy of about 140 lbs of solid muscle. The guy is a state championship high school wrestling champ now about 45. He mows with a push mower. Hand shovels the walk and driveway as fast as I can blow it. :)

Ok thing is he is always grilling huge cuts of meat. I think he has also learned that protien is what men really need. (women too for that matter)

He prob learned as wrestlers do that to cut carbs is how he lost weight for matches and his good eating carried over. But I noticed that and I started to realize he eats a lot of meat (and prob not much simple carbs)

But very interesting as something you said clicked as i also feel best when I am eating meat or fish and worse eating carbs. I swear. In fact I almost always feel bad on all but the most complex of carbs like beans.

I gave up whole wheat bread a while back (unless it is seriously very whole wheat) and white bread way back. But we all prob do eat too many carbs. I have a lot of the same symptoms you are saying as well as a lot of antacids being needed for carbs but hardly not needed at all for protiens. And not needed at all for fish or chicken.

Really the vast majority of carbs are man made junk. Refined being the keyword.

I noticed the cheapest food out there (yeah money is always tight :) ) are also the best for you (except protein.. beef and fish which is is high priced but for the carbs only.. all the best carbs are the original carbs.. Beans, potatoes, true whole wheat. As soon as man gets in there and refines it is junk.

Beans are one of the carbs (actually a legume) which are really more along the lines of protien with lots of fiber.

Eating beans dishes is the best for you. 4 cans of beans is 3 bucks and lasts a week. :) Plus a little seasoning. I usually eat it with potatoes or whole grain rice (not the best) or brown (very good but tasteless) or wild (the best) rice. Technically wild is a grain and not a rice.

(beans plus rice = complete protein) but beans baby will take the weight off if you keep the other junk out. Fiber up the wazoo. :)

I have fallen in love with beans. :)

true, rethinking, having diabetes for 26+ years now, i guess i didn't realize i don't even see those sorts of things on the menu anymore. so it doesn't even register on my radar enough to say "no way". know what i mean? i don't eat candy or even ever get craving for candy. but i find that hfcs sneeks in to things that are surprising to me, so i am always on the lookout for it.

i do enjoy a crazy dessert concoction on occasion. chocolate! :1orglaugh

yeah ..... it's hell on the body though.... last time I did 7.8lbs on day of weigh ins and it was hell .. I was ready to quit at the weighins itself waiting on the doc to check us....

I wanted to keep it smooth this time... so I dieted before the cut... and that sucked bigtime.... this week I went from 7000 calories a day to 1200...... went from 158 to where im at now since monday.....

Yeah, I know what you mean. Some things you'd never even think it had that in it.

Chocolate? I have pure chocolate once every couple of weeks : ) Its good for me : ) Lots of good stuff in it. I don't have hersheys, but I have the pure stuff, I forget the name.

beans beans the magical fruit! :1orglaugh do you eat lentils? very good for you and cheap too.

Your topic did inspire me to start a diet.

vjo, you also bring up a good point- protein. i was reading the other day that the human body is comprised of over 100,000 different proteins.

we need our protein. that and fat are the required macronutrients. carbs, no. but i find i do better when i have some carbs throughout the day. usually 50g-100g, depending on my activity level for that day.

SCORE! :thumbsup let us know how it goes eh :)

Great idea. There is nothing better than a good cut of beef.

Hmm yeah I am sort of socially retarded hehe so I am sure I make all the guffaws. :)

It is all about habits and making new better ones. I am on my way. :) As you get a lil older around the big 5-0 you realize it is stupid to be carrying around excess weight. But for many of us, we can excel in various areas of life (or not) but learning how to correctly eat evades us.

It is really prob just as easy as if you eat sugar or corn syrup or highly processed yucky carbs (which is what they are) that you get fat. Simple human biology. But noone really says, YES that is what it is. So we go along thinking we are different or maybe just in the fog and we nibble on a little junk each day.

Maybe just a chocolate bar, two corn syrup filled "fruit slices" :), a small bowl of pasta, a white flour tortilla at work and maybe we splerge from time to time and have a bad night and eat 3 bars and 6 "slices". This is enough to sabatage our loss.

It is going cold turkey that is hardest to do but maybe is the only real way. In fact it is the only way.

Did Arnold or Franco Columbu sneak a hershey bar when they were training for Mr Olympia? NO! :)

Maybe the real thing is you (I :) not you guys you're all in shape :)) have to get SERIOUS and not do it half way.

It is all about getting serious and committing.

oh they are magical that's for sure :1orglaugh but nothing like maltitol but that is another thread :)

I thought I was gonna cheat "life" and give up sugar so I stocked up on a bit of maltitol candies.

Russel Stovers has some good ones. Everything from peanut clusters to toffee to mints, you name it. So they taste just like sugared candies but made with maltitol. Same calories but no harm to the teeth. Does not attack teeth.

But ooooooooh man they are like beans cubed. :) They even warn ya on the bag. That ended that.

Ya know I havent really had lentils maybe once or twice. Like lentil soup. But I like "good for you and cheap". :) My kind of food. :) Will check em out.

Cool man. You really got it down. I appreciate you all reading through my stuff and giving good advice. Seriously I do. It takes time to slowly day by day reprogram ourselves and get good knowledge when we go shopping to replace candy with let's say dates.

Dates another wonder food. High fiber. Very tasty. Goes great with coconut which is also good for you if it is unsweetened and unprocessed too much. Real is best but you got to get the Survivor machete out then. :)

Cali has those great jumbo dates :thumbsup

I go with Amport here which are often on sale for $2 a box. Great deal. Great for you. Does not attack the teeth :winkwink: Very important. We dont want to spend money on dentists (anymore :) ) either.

Instead of "Oh I could of had a V8" it should be, "Oh I could of had a date".

I always forget about dates even when I have em in the house. Have to put em right on the front shelf of the fridge. I dont know why, I like dates. They just are easily forgotten. :) Thankfully nothing last like dates except maybe Turkish apricots :1orglaugh

If a "fruit slice" (I know, bad boy, bad boy - the worst.. high fructose corn syrup) is available I am conditioned to go for it.

But I am changing. :)

Hey that's coming up isnt it. Give em hell. :thumbsup

Some pretty major athletes in this thread. :)

I commend you for not being annoyed with all my ramblings if your only on 1200 cals. :)

Ya know.. one more thing.. I noticed that MMA athletes and this relates to what Cory was saying, and who are no doubt some of the finest athletes in modern time, after getting beat on and sometimes losing they still do not get all angry and still keep a level head.

Like when Randy Couture lost this last time and he really got clobbered he still has the calmness to talk coherantly about what happened and he doesnt get all worked up.

What I'm saying is really highly trained athletes like you DD and really Cory and Dyna Mo as well have a certain peace about you, a certain natural high that I believe only comes from having your body in fantastic shape.

It is really commendable. Kind of like George Reeves in the old Superman was. Always calm and amicable and pleasant to be around. They have an air of confidence. They know they are tough. They dont have to have an ego along for the ride all the time.

You really see that in MMA fighters. A humbleness and natural peace and clarity.

That is a pretty cool side benefit of being in great shape.

Thanks everyone.

good job

Curious. Do you think the diet is doable if you can't eat raw veggies, high fiber foods and only eat seafood for meat? Would you have to eat seafood every day? Are there any cooked veggies you could do?

woohoo, the carb load is kicking in, getting that full look again. whew.!! lolz


hmm, i don't see why not, broccoli for sure. i just searched through the book and there's nothing in there that requires raw vegetables. in fact, i started it off nibbling celery sticks throughout the day, but quickly tired of that and stopped and i was fine.

but also, the fiber is a crucial component of this diet (and any eating plan, imo) so shoot for at least 30g of fiber a day, and more if you can.

seafood, for sure, no problem. i'd look for the wild caught fish so you get the nutrients they provide that are not in farm-raised fish, wild salmon is loaded with nutrition, for instance. the fish oil is also very important for this diet.

OH and I thought you were Asian!

Great work on the weight loss! Congratulations on the reward for your hard work and dedication :thumbsup

asian? never got that one before! :1orglaugh :thumbsup thx eh.

your def Canadian eh

can I contact you via icq?

naw, i just like saying eh eh. :1orglaugh

i don't have icq at this time but you can email me
info at takechargefood.com :)

Man, you don't look good.

You skin looks old and unhealthy. You also look malnourished.

Eat some meat.

hang out with my ex-gf.