Did you live there? Do you actually know what it was like? Or do you just get your knowledge from the Guardian?

Lived there 6 years 72 -79 visited there every year since, learnt to speak fluent Polish, Have a MA from there.

Worked in an Iron foundry there in Koluszek, have been arrested there... etc etc

No sorry I disagree.
Imagine all small countries with their own political directions, their own thirst for resources, their own multi-polar aims. Heck you have the origins of WW1 and 2 right there. The coal and steal community was exactly the reason to stop these things economically which then naturally progressed into the EU.
My American history wasn't good, but wasn't the american civil war down to differences between the northern and southern states and with no federal government controlling?

Of course you have a good point because there has been no proven political system, union or federal system of any sort that has been stopped wars entirely but I think war is more common when you have multi-polar countries gunning for power.

Its a really hard debate. Remember that there is crime when there is less border control but remember the benefits that are brought both economically and culturally.
Very recently in Britain a politician said for companies to hire English, well fuck that the business leaders said, they're fucking retards, the immigrants have a better grasp of English that the average English person. I mean, you can even find a crack addict on the streets of Amsterdam who has better English than the common English youth. They don't turn up to work on time, very lazy. They wont do the hard jobs that the immigrants will.
Thats England I am on about, I am not sure on the situation in Denmark, But if they are willing to work harder and make the economy more healthy I am all for it. Its only the minority who are fucking things up. The majority of immigrants just want a better life for themselves and are willing to work for it.

Total crap, the reason why the corporations employ immigrants is because they are willing to work for peanuts and send most of that money back home. They don't have a family/mortgage/ect to worry about and so can work for much lower wages. The only people who benefit from immigration is the corporations that can bus cheap workers around the globe. Like the oil company that opened up in Scotland and ONLY employed cheap Polish workers. How does that help Scotland in ANY way at all?
The EU will not work as for it to be a success, every country has to be on a level ecconomic base, the richer countries have to lower their standards of living for the poorer countries to catch up.

Which the Germans are now starting to realize re:Greece.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

:Oh crap

Personally I will take the risks involved in freedom over giving power to a vast centralized government that only ends up representing itself.. Does the EU council care what individual people with individual cultures want? Organize 2000 people to march at your local government, and they will sit up, take notice, and you will be represented. Organize that same 2000 people to the EU council and they won't even realize you're there.


.:2 cents:

It is really needed to have a democratic government running the EU.

There are real freedoms in being able to travel without restriction, to be able to live and work anywhere in Europe.

The euro has also been helpful in our business on the Internet.

wtf? did all that come from a late night discussion at the pub? I would consider looking at actual facts and figures rather than flimsy word of mouth knowledge into this sort of thing.
You do realise also that customs unions take hundreds of years to succeed and get the balance right of rich to poor. Previous federations have shown that.

Ok thats fair you hold that view, but you do realise that more wars occur in multi polar systems like that? Prime example in the late 1990's Kosovo war outside of the EU's control.
And erm... try organising a 2000 protest in Libya and see what happ.....

No, its the simple law of ecconomics. People will gravitate towards the wealth. Once supply outstrips the demand (as in jobs and jobseekers) the ecconomy slows. I did think that this was rather obvious.
Once the wages go down as in the case of more people looking for jobs than there are jobs then there is less spending ... less spent in shops ... less manufacturing ... ect. The job seekers then move on to the next wealthy area.
All basic stuff.