I think that he we pretty stupid to oblige their request to step outside and I don't see why he would put himself back into harms way after he was in his vehicle... He definitely did the right thing not firing his weapon when they retreated

He should be arrested for brandishing the weapon.

You don't pull out a gun unless you are going to shoot. It's like rule #1 with guns, and if he's taken any training / safety courses then he should have known that. He should simply know that since he is a gun owner and is carrying it in public. Oh, and what the hell was he doing with a gun in a bar? I can only assume he hadn't been drinking right? Because otherwise he was breaking the law (a second time).

I dunno, seems like your friend is stupid and or is going to get himself killed. You know the issue with pulling out a gun to deescalate a situation? It doesn't deescalate it, it only escalates it and second it will get you killed. If anyone every pulled out a gun and someone else had theirs on them, they'd be dead if they didn't pull the trigger. Someone pulls out a gun it instantly means the opposition's life is in danger, end of story. Your friend is an idiot.

I carry every day and I'd never pull it out unless it was to use it, and the situation was to the point my life was in danger and someone needed to die for me to live.

Guns are for protection of your life, not scaring people...

So you would only use a gun to kill someone, not anything else? You wouldn't use it as a deterrent? If you pull a gun on someone and that guy starts to run away and you shoot them that isn't self defence.

if he had the opportunity to go to his truck he should have left

needed mine ready 3 separate times, however I didn't pull the gun out... I was able to back the situation down yet I was very, VERY, ready to defend myself.

he fucked up. he should have shot them all then planted the gun in the mom's hand.

lolamerica

THIS.

He had the opportunity to go to his vehicle. He could have, and should have left. His life was not in danger. Pulling the weapon turns him into the aggressor... unless they were chasing him and he barely had time to get it out to make them back off, which doesn't sound like the case here.

Yes, a gun is only used to kill. It is NOT a "scare tactic". Anyone using a gun to scare people is wrong and probably should have their weapons taken from them because they are a danger to themselves and the public.

You guys know what they teach in gun-handling, self-defense, police and military gun training, right?

Don't point the barrel of the gun towards a person unless you are going to shoot, is the rule.

Now, that's an idealized rule, but it is still the rule I was taught, and you will find that rule everywhere.

That means, if you are going to ready a pistol for self defense, you hold it in the down or up position, until you decide to fire. Then you instantly extend the piostol into your chosen firing position. At that point you can still decide not to fire, but you should not extend into firing position until you have already decided you are ready to shoot.

So, it depends a bit on what you mean by brandish. Holding the gun in an up or down position, but visible, is proper technique, and is showing the gun to prevent attack.

Now, nobody expects the typical american gun owner to be properly trained. But it sounds like whoever was telling the guy "don't point" was training in one of the classic schools.

Waving the gun around like a gangster or a fake cop on tv with a plastic gun, is incorrect technique.

6 motnhs ago i had to pull my gun on a mentally ill homeless guy that threw rocks at my dogs and then me..

he approached me with a brick in his hand and i drew down on him.. i told him to stop or i would kill him.. he took a couple more steps towards me then stopped and turned around, called me a faggot :1orglaugh, and walked away..

he was one more step away from getting killed. i could have killed him and was within my right. i called the cops and they showed up quickly and arrested the guy a few blocks away. the cops told me that they had several problems with him in the past..

they also told me i would have been within my right to use deadly force..

i am glad i did not have to shoot the guy, but i was prepared to..

so, i dont think you only pull a gun to kill someone.. sometimes pulling a gun and being prepared to use it is enough to diffuse an extreme situation.. :2 cents:






.

This whole situation reeks to me. The trash causing all the problems isn't worth a shit to me. Clearly those people have little to nothing to lose... so right there IMO it's an unfair advantage on their part. Certainly not even close to running the risk of getting assaulted, arrested, or worse.

Violence should never be used or threatened unless it is absolutely necessary for self defense. The guy had time to go to his car... so there was no need for self defense at that point. Should have just left.

The guy made several mistakes. Whether he "disrespected" that woman or not... she drunk, clearly a violent bitch... you either stay the hell away from her, or apologize quickly to get her off your back and then leave. You tell a bouncer if you feel threatened. What you don't do is agree to step outside with her thug sons. Why even engage those idiots? If you are willing to "step outside" then you better be prepared to throw a punch back.

How the hell would the guy know that if he went to his car to get a gun... that one of these other morons doesn't pull out a gun himself? Or worse, one of his buddies standing 20 yards away and behind him sees everything going down and pulls out a gun? Then you are fucked.

And over WHAT? This situation is just fuckin stupid. Leave with your face and livelihood intact and don't bother returning.

I'm sorry, but that is nonsense. I am alive today because my weapons have acted as deterrents. If you're saying that I should have shot people when it wasn't necessary, you couldn't be more wrong. I stand by what I said - don't pull what you won't use - but if you pull and they flee, put it away and leave the situation.

Twice I have held men at gunpoint (business related breakins) until the police arrived. Silly me I should have just shot them instead.

.

As a firearms trainer/instructor/range safety officer, I'd like to say that you don't know WTF you are talking about.

Everything you said in that paragraph is incorrect. I'm licensed to carry in 34 states and I carry every day of my life, in bars, out of bars....No difference in the primary states I carry in.

Like Anthony, I've had the need to pull my gun twice and did not shoot.

Obviously laws will differ from State to State. In Oregon, if a guy is brandishing a weapon and you pull yours then it's all good...BUT, if he then lowers his weapon, you are required by law to lowers yours, not shoot him. Either way, if you do shoot, you're most likely going to end up with a civil if not a criminal case and like Seth Manson said, I'm not trying to spend any time in jail or shell out money for attorneys if I can avoid it.

At 20 yards...I would have the advantage. Most people can't hit shit at half that distance.

BTW, Deej and I just got back from the range where we killed some paper bad guys. :BangBang:

I still have GSR ( thats gun shot residue for all you dumb mother fuckers) all over my hands so obviously I know everything about firearms and especially this incident. The guy was in the wrong and wanted to swang his non existent "manhood" around.

He got beat up so he decided to "show them" and wanted to get the upper hand. He should have left the situation and better yet, not fallen into the "lets go outside" bullshit in the first place.

Oh and AaronM knows a smidge about pee shooters too. I taught him everything he knows.






Photography too!!

Well you deifnitely killed yours.

I just winged mine a couple times and sentem home limpin...

LOL

You and your GSR have jokes. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Go wash your dirty hands and lets grab some sushi.

Scott Gaulke
Casey if you read this please message me! I want to marry you!

you summed it up my mexican friend.