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Agent 488 07-17-2011 01:25 PM

i'm sure huge corporations increasingly dwindling their tax bills to almost zero (while still feeding themselves at the public trough and benefiting from the social and industrial infrastructure taxes pay for) over the past 30=40 years has nothing to do with it ... yes it is rational to make your average worker bee with their pittance of social benefits to "make the hard choices" and "tighten their belts" ...

Robbie 07-17-2011 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topnotch, standup guy (Post 18288176)
The only viable solution to the debt crisis is to grow the fucking economy and pay off the debt with the resultant increased tax revenues.

And even if they did...would they actually PAY THE DEBT DOWN? I bet they wouldn't. I bet that any politician (republican or democrat) would immediately start spending more the minute that the budget shows a surplus (just like Bush did when he took over from Clinton).

These politicians are in it for themselves (human nature) and they have FREE money to play with. They didn't earn it.

They TAKE it from us. And then they have the audacity to state that letting big corporations keep more of their own money is a "tax giveaway".

They actually don't consider anybodies money to belong to the people who actually earn it. The govt. thinks of all the money that other people earn to be THEIRS. They ALLOW us to keep a percentage! That's the way it's viewed in Washington. They don't even hesitate to spend it like it's nothing to them

I believe people are starting to tire of that.

2MuchMark 07-17-2011 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18287934)
Clinton in retrospect was a great president. And definitely one of the smartest guys to hold that office in a long time.

Having said that....he also benefited from an incredible thing called the "internet bubble".

hi Robbie,

For sure he was at the right place at the right time, but had he not raised taxes and fixed the problems that he did, the Internet bubble would have resulted in less income for the US Government, and may have stifled the growth of the bubble too. Who knows... I could give some credit to timing, but for sure the guy was a great president.

2MuchMark 07-17-2011 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SallyRand (Post 18287974)
Obama has NOT "returned socialized medecine".

His so-called "heath care" system ONLY mandates the people BUY health insurance or face civil and potential criminal prosecution.

I'd be really interested in you enumerating those "hundreds of other things", by the way!

Here you go:

What Has Obama Done?
Tangible Accomplishments

Acted to remove registered lobbyists from federal advisory commitees.
Abandoned Bush administration plan to build antiballistic missile shield in Eastern Europe
Imposed tariffs on tires imported from China
Expanded retirement savings options through IRS changes
Annonunced that it will release White House visitor logs with some exceptions
Renominated Ben Bernanke to second four-year term as chairman of the Federal Reserve
Announced $12 billion initiative to reform community colleges
Nominated Regina Benjamin as surgeon general
Extended executive order to freeze assets of Liberian ruler Charles Taylor
Announced two-year pause on new mining claims near Grand Canyon (Interior Secretary Salazar)
Signed bill appropriating $7.65 billion to respond to H1N1 flu epidemic
Reached agreement with American Hospital Association to cut Medicare reimbursements and payments by $155 billion over 10 years
Joined international declaration on energy and climate change
Announced regulatory changes underway to improve food safety standards resulting from Cabinet-level working group
Issued Department of Energy rule for increased energy efficiency standards
Signed supplemental appropriations bill and signing statement including funding for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as for preparation for a HINI flu pandemic
Hosted White House reception honoring contributions of gay and lesbian Americans
Signed act granting FDA regulatory authority over tobacco products and mandating addition tobacco regulation
Announced plan for regulatory reform of financial system and creation of new Consumer Financial Protection Agency
Extended Federal benefits for same-sex partners and urged Congress to overturn Defense of Marriage Act to enable additional extensions of benefits
Created White House Office of Olympic, Paralympic, and Youth Sport
Recommended Medicare and Medicare changes intended to save $300 billion over 10 years
Proposed to Congress that future non-emergency tax cuts or entitlement expansions be offset by revenue increases or spending reductions ("PAYGO")
Negotiated new agreement with Russia to reduce and limit offensive weapons
Signed bill to create commission to honor Ronald Reagan upon 100th anniversary of his birth
Nominated Judge Sonia Sotomayor as Supreme Court Justice to succeed Justice David Souter
Signed mortgage reform legislation intended to prevent fraud and enable homeowners unable to pay their mortgages to refinance
Signed bill to permit Pentagon to abandon projects when costs significantly exceed projections
Signed credit card bill of rights to benefit consumers
Announced national policy on fuel economy and greenhouse gas emission for cars and trucks for 2012-2016 model years
Issued one-year extension of sanctions against Burma for repression
Blocked release of photos documenting abuse of detainees held abroad by U.S. authorities
Signed Serve America Act to expand AmeriCorps program to 250,000 volunteers by 2017
Upheld Department of Defense use of military commissions to try detainees held for suspected terrorism while promising them expanded rights
Appointed John Holdren to advise president on science and technology
Issued executive order to protect and restore Chesapeake Bay
Authorized use of force to rescue American captain held by Somali pirates
Directed release of confidential memos on torture and shielded officials who conducted torture from prosecution
Encouraged legislation to direct credit card issuers to provide clear disclosure of lending terms and limit penalties and fees
Removed restrictions for travel, and sending money, to Cuba for people with family members in that country
Created White House Office of Health Reform
Established a White House Council on Women and Girls
Dedicated $75 billion in funding to a Treasury Department program to prevent mortgage foreclosures
Ordered executive officials to consult with Attorney General before bypassing statutes based on authority of Bush administration signing statements
Issued memorandum directing development of a strategy for restoring scientific integrity to government decision-making.
Revoked restrictions on stem cell research imposed by the Bush administration
Committed administration to budget requests that will reduce annual deficits by half by end of current presidential term
Revoked Bush amendments to Clinton era executive order effectively reinstating previously greater transparency in regulatory planning and review
Created urban affairs office within White House
Extended Hurricane Katrina relief aid
Modified and ordered a panel to review the faith-based initiatives program
Ordered the Department of Energy to expedite energy efficiency standards for appliances
In signing ARRA bill, fulfilled campaign promise to extend and index fix for Alternative Minimum Tax inflation inequity
Shepherded and signed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (aka: "economic stimulus package")
Signed S-CHIP bill authorizing expanded health care coverage for children
Expressed opposition to bonuses for executives of Wall Street companies receiving bailouts
Ordered military to begin planning withdrawal of troops from Iraq
Established right of first refusal for employees displaced under Federal contracts
Placed limits on activities that may be funded with Federal funding
Reinforced compliance with Federal labor laws in procurement
Appointed task force on middle-class working families
Allocated up to $20 million for relief to Gaza residents
Signed bill expanding time frame during which workers can sue for discrimination
Issued memoranda to promote environmental standards requesting the EPA review decision to prevent states from imposing stricter auto emissions standards and impose federal fuel efficiency standards more rapidly than previously scheduled
Ordered review of detention for sole individual held within U.S. as enemy combatant
Issued order mandating presumption of openness in responding to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests
Rescinded Republican expansion prohibiting aid to foreign governments for family planning that includes information on abortion
Ordered closure of Guantanamo and secret CIA prisons
Reversed a Bush policy to block release of presidential papers
Instituted new limits on lobbyists in White House
Froze salaries of White House employees earning over $100k
Temporarily halted tribunals of Guantanamo captives
Issued freeze on last-minute Bush administration regulations
Acknowledged nonbelievers in inauguration address
Committed to publishing all non-emergency legislation to the White House website for public review for five days before signing.

Intangible (Asserted) Accomplishments
"Reset" relationship with Islamic world with landmark speech
Established posture of candor and openness in working with world leaders
Instituted a new approach to managing foreign affairs decisionmaking that combines decisive action with an openness to White House staff input
Inspired a new sense of hope and responsibility among African-Americans
Established new tone for U.S. policy on Middle East
Reinstated concept of due process for terrorism detainees

topnotch, standup guy 07-17-2011 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18288180)
And even if they did...would they actually PAY THE DEBT DOWN?

We'd all like to think that maybe they've learned something in the meantime, but you're probably right :(

Problem is, failing an economic boom, I see no way of reducing the national debt short of reducing living standards in this country to third world status.

And as we all know, no politician could survive that politically or perhaps even literally.

.

GregE 07-17-2011 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488 (Post 18288012)
pretty much. clinton was good at creating an illusion of wealth. when the reality was stagnant wages, increase in debt and yes the deregulation that partly caused the financial crisis.

Right about now, leadership that was capable of creating even the faintest illusion of prosperity would make for a welcome change.

BFT3K 07-17-2011 04:28 PM

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