:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

i see, makes sense except for you stating the problem is currently happening and we have unions.

example-

OP cited
but in truth, congress said nope.
http://www.aclu.org/womens-rights/se...ss-act-forward

unions had no impact.

see what i am getting at? they do not help against issues such as you mention, at the same time they increase wages/costs and protect less than average work effort.

Dyna mo, I am your father...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2637/...d3a16a9c2e.jpg

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

that explains a lot of why we disagree! :thumbsup

Uggg..... fine, unions all over every State have been putting in rights for gays and lesbians, because they HAVE BEEN discriminated against.

They help against issues none of us could dream of.

Once your corp has reached a level of needing a union, it's already too late. Unions don't come about when corps treat employees fairly, pay fairly, and overall respect the worker. And unions are still being formed today.... so clearly, they're needed.

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a974/a974.gif


as an employee you love unions, as employer you hate them and being self-employed you don't bother - isn't it like that?

haha what a joke. They get their foot in one door in an industry, example: nursing homes, and then they basically strong arm their way into almost every business in that industry. It has nothing to do with companies not taking care of their employees. They come in, lie to them and tell them they can get them wages that are impossible to achieve, then once they are in and the employees realize they were lied to, it is impossible to get rid of them.

This is from first hand experience.

I was making a lot more than $70k a year when I left.

I worked there five years to the day. I was disgusted by what I saw. I was fresh out of the Marine Corps, highly motivated, and wanted to excel at everything. I worked there a year and was in charge of 250 people who had zero incentive to work harder. It drove me up the wall.

Pacific Bell didn't care much either. They were the local phone company and they were guaranteed to make money - If you wanted a phone, you had to have Pac Bell. The entire company had the same issue - why try harder because we are guaranteed money?

(The only upside to that job was that operator services was mostly staffed by chicks - I was one of five guys who worked at an office with 400 chicks in it!)

You seem to think unions just form out of thin air in businesses that must be mistreating employees. How do you then explain the CAW (Canadian Auto Workers) expanding to almost every nursing home in the province of Ontario, even taking over other unions that were already in place? What great knowledge they have with the nursing home industry, with all their experience in auto plants.

If you think this is about righting wrongs or protecting employees you are sadly mistaken. It is just another business, and the various unions will even fight amongst each other and try to force other unions out of an industry so they can line their pockets. Our employees actually had to take a cut in pay after the union came into place. What a joke. And that's not including the incredible amount of union dues they have to pay.

Does no good today, many employers do not follow that list at all anymore when a business is wage-subsidized by state/provincial and federal levels of government. Gone are the days of being able to spend time with family on same day your spouse is off. Gone are days of your job waiting for you after sick/maternity leave. You're likely put into a lesser position if not laid off upon return and gone are the days of a guarantee of not getting fired for calling in sick or refusing extra shifts.

Right... experience from the other side of the fence.

Yeah, I'm sure no connection can be found what so ever between CAW and the nursing industry, it's probably just all business, a fluke, that's totally logical... hahaha.

I know exactly why they come about, what I don't care about is why Canadians do it.

Oh look, 2 seconds on Google and I found out why CAW reached across the table and I found the table is huge, not just nursing homes, but healthcare, colleges, farms, gaming, mining, retail, shipping, trasport, and more.

Then I asked the question, why? The answer... retired workers moving industries bitching about conditions. Such as, doctors/nursers working in nursing homes that weren't actually doctors/nursers anymore....and some workers being forced to work without pay, wow... yeah, no reason for a unions in Canada, corps are all fair, all good, and do exactly what is best for the employees, every single time!

The only thing they had in common was they were a union and they decided they wanted to push out the SEIU. They literally had guys at the bargaining table that had only ever dealt with auto plants before. No experience with nurses at all. FACT.

I also know exactly why they come about, and I don't care what someone who has no experience in the matter says. You're like arguing with Gideon about copyright infringement.

Democrats love the unions. The unions fund the elections for the democrats who in turn give the unions more power and money to build more unions in as many businesses as they can. Nothing but parasites.

As an American, you're correct... I have no experience in Canadian unions.

But thinking I don't have experience in unions, would be a major mistake on your part.

People working without pay, that's a new one! Do you know what the fine would be based on the Employment Standards Act for making someone work without pay? We would be fined out of business for making someone work without pay.

A doctor working for no pay? We can hardly get them to show up when we are paying them, they push it off onto nurse practitioners if we're lucky.

You act like we are some crooked corporation who doesn't give a shit about employees. My dad used to drive to employees houses in his 4X4 to pick them up in snowstorms when they couldn't make it in, because their husbands were to lazy to drive them.

Once the unions came in all the freebies stopped.

edit: and before you say, you must have been doing something wrong to get a union in. The answer would be they were promised ridiculous raises by the union if they voted them in.

The sad part is as a nursing home we are given a set amount of money by the government to spend on nursing, programs, and the rest for accommodation. If we don't spend all the nursing money we literally have to give it back to the government.

So there was no raise for them to get. it was all smoke and mirrors by the union. We were already spending every dollar the government gave us for nursing. If we didn't we had to return it to the government.

What about the "equal amount of unions" that give to Republicans? Or the ones that don't do it at all, or the ones that allow each person to make the choice, or groups to donation to any cause, political or not.... which is how most work.

Here, I fixed this for you...

Republicans love the big corporations. Their lobbyists fund the elections for the Republicans who in turn give the ultra-wealthy more power and money to benefit the CEOs and top 2% in as many businesses as they can. Nothing but parasites.

Not if they weren't an employee...

Never said a doctor working without pay, rather a doctor working without his lic.

So rather than your father saying don't come in today, when the husband said no work, your father forced them to work? And you question why you have a union....

That's not being nice, that's called being a dick.

It's a nursing home, moron. They're are 60 people here that need the nurses here to change them, feed them, give them medicine. If the nurses don't show up, people die.

That is why we have over 80 employees, we need to have enough on hand at all times to make sure everyone can be replaced.

Oh, so the union solved your unsafe conditions for the people at the home, WHEN something happens... sweet.

Yes,they do. It's part of being a producer. How many jobs does a union create?


I can drive the local area now and take pictures of over 10million sq feet of empty manufacturing plants that closed because they lost their competitive edge against Asian labor. The unions didn't know when to back off. Now they are gone.

Hahaha... so the non-union corps should be rocking it then.

Unions or not, we can't complete with $3 a month wages.

Union had no affect on staffing patterns at all. Now we just don't let employees get away with taking snow days off. If they don't show up they get written up. Great benefit to the employees!!!!

Keep trying!

Toyota seems to be doing pretty good in their local non-union plant. I'm sure they have no shortage of resumes on hand. But the local Ford plant just closed down.

I did. We hired 40 new employees last year. We invested over $5m in new equipment in the last 36 months and are putting on another 60k sq ft to our main plant. When it's finished we will add another 50+ jobs. With health,dental,life and 401k. We had a couple of guys try to start a union a few years ago. They were voted down by a large majority.

I can take you to hundreds of small business like mine that are doing just fine. We are growing and we are making money.

Large corporations that are stuck with unions are the ones having the problems.

Ahhh, I get your game now, bring up pointless shit so it's easy to show unions did nothing related to that pointless shit.

As I said above, "experience from the other side of the fence."

Shit tons of union corps are kicking ass, come on.... it's not a one way door, that is without question. Just like a shit ton of non-union corps, need a union, and are failing... it's even, all around.

You're a great example of what happens when a corp actually offers something to employees... it shows union attempts are easy to squash if employees are actually happy.

The only benefit the union had was to relieve them of $100 a month or so in union dues. NOTHING else changed in our home, other than us stopping some of the freebies we used to give out. No more free booze at the staff Christmas party. No more free rides to work.

They actually get less in raises every year now since the union came in, since we have to follow whatever the master bargaining group does.

You pretending like you know anything about our situatiuon is really rather pathetic.

I'm not pretending anything... I'm following YOUR conversion, and when you're talking about staff and the next post say you had to have 80, everyone is going to logically think the union did that.

So you can stop pretending as if I'm trying to know anything about your stupid ass, when I can only follow your conversion...

And again, as I said above, "experience from the other side of the fence." which is very clear.

Apparently you weren't following my conversation when I said:

"Union had no affect on staffing patterns at all."

We've always had around 80 to make sure we have the floor covered. The Union can't tell us how to run the place, because they don't know how. They are just there to skim off of the employees and to cost us more in legal fees come bargaining time. We are regulated by the ESA and the Long Term Care Homes Act.

If I only have experience from the other side of the fence, then you must be outside the city limits. Typical union mentality as well, the ideas and thoughts from management have no bearing on anything. Only the workers matter. That is what almost ruined the auto industry. Very clear.

That is interesting coming from a former telecommunications worker (you) who most likely had a solid union paying job, wages, and benefits for many years.

I just realized it was 40 years ago today that I became a member of the CWA.

Precisely. And I was a union insider, so when I say they have outlived their usefulness you can take it to the bank.

Yes, we know you said that "AFTER" I posted what I did.... you suck at this game.

End of the day, I don't give a shit about your Canadian unions... but... Canadian or not, only a complete idiot thinks they're of no good, have no benefits, and do nothing.

I know a person that is the head of the union and he sings a different song.... oh he doesn't praise the union... don't get me wrong, but he damn sure doesn't deny what the corp has done to them and the need for the union.

If you were an insider... then you know the corp wasn't playing nice from day one, otherwise, you're full of shit.

relax, there's really no need to call people idiots about the matter simply because we don't share your view.

Please do not imply that I am a liar. If you read my post I said they outlived their usefulness, which means at one point in time they were not only useful but desired. Required even. But those days are long gone and I will gladly debate your union head friend about that fact. Debating a bunch of people that have never really been involved is pointless.

I can't help it if you're stupid enough to think an auto union would come into a nursing home and tell them how to properly staff their facility. If you don't know anything about a subject you should probably keep your mouth shut.