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I do not believe improving the fairness of an inherently broken tax system is a long term solution to either our financial problems or our ethical problems. However, I also do not see how making these change can be anything but a positive step forward on the revenue side of the equation. We aren't talking about raising any tax brackets, we are talking about making sure the people already in a given tax bracket are paying the amount that everyone else in their bracket is paying. Earning 2M should not be taxed more than investing 100M and taking home the same 2M amount. Quote:
We currently fund a 1980s style military industrial complex for no reason, we fund farm subsidies and destroy crops to provide 'price support' rather than using that food to feed poor people and meanwhile 15% of our population is on food stamps, we give huge subsidies to oil companies that are already generating record profits, and we pay more for poor health care than any other country on the planet. I believe the solutions on the spending side are just as inevitable as they are on the revenue side of the equation. We are heading to some kind of single payer healthcare system for all basic medical care. We will soon have completely subsidized college educations and technical schools that are basically grades 13-15 for people who can not afford private colleges. We will rebuild our infrastructure to include high speed rail, national wifi, new bridges and a smarter power grid. Those things will have HUGE costs. The money will come from finally dropping many of the expenses that are used to generate profits for private companies. The only question is when, and that will be determined by how long it takes for bankers and oilmen to tilt the standard of living far enough in their direction to anger enough of the 300M citizens in this country to take to the streets. If you think predictions of riots are premature or childish, make note of the fact that Mike Bloomberg recently predicted the same thing if unemployment continues at its current pace. Mass poverty is bad for the poor, but historically its much much worse for the rich. The wealthy make out just fine no matter how everyone else is doing. :2 cents: |
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there's a big difference between state taxes and federal taxes.. state taxes are used to provide services to your state country city.. the federal govt just takes your money and doesnt give you shit in return except a security force... oh, and social security, which will allow you to live below poverty level when you hit 65.. :1orglaugh . |
Sweet Jesus, page two and no 12clicks ?
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Flat tax would make things so much easier. Penalizing spending and rewarding saving is also as fair as it gets as most money will eventually be spent anyway.
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The article is stupid, because it try to skew the facts for headlines. The simplest way to fix these issues is to have a straight flat tax but you damn sure know anyone making a lot of money will never want that because they know they wouldn't get those deductions. Que that moron that shits quarters out his ass. |
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If you are going to complain about this admin, how about being consistent and complain about your own Republican boys that did just as much or worse. This isn't just a one sided issue as both parties are to blame for spending too much. As long as people continue to play politics with the issue it will never be stopped. |
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canadians are some of the dumbest people in the world due to all the inbreeding.... highest number of retards in the world and a lot of them actually post here.. . |
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Well then see that's the problem then not just this administration, but the govt is broken as a whole. Both sides spend too much of our damn money, but as long as people still go to the voting both and vote for one party or another just because they are Republican or Democrat then nothing will change. |
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doesnt matter which party is in office and/or controls congress, its all the same non sense.. . |
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signs are useless since most canadians cant read.... . |
people are on foodstamps because they cant function properly in society, not because there is a food shortage.
bringing up these kinds of arguments always ruins it. go look at the facts people. nearly 50% of Americans contribute ZERO in taxes, and these people still get to vote? thats just insane.. if ya' dont pay your share, no way in hell you should get any say in spending. second.. lets not confuse tax rates with "actual tax contributions" if the average person pays 20% taxes of 50K = 10K so someone makes 500K, at 20% they pay 100K in fact that person paid 10 times more in taxes than the average, i dont give a rats about the actual % rate, thats just a statistical way of blinding the stupid amongst us. |
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They came out of the gate holding all the cards and all they did was galvanize the country with healthcare issues. From that point on, Obama has been under seige and it's not going to change. |
So what are you gonna do about it all... vote teabaggers in, no spending, no tax increases but there will be an all out war against porn, back to Reagan-esque porn shop shutdowns and prosecutions, Christians running wild. Vote the liberaltardos in and we will all go broke but at least porn will still be around, but free prolly.
Good luck America, you need it. P.S. Flat tax all sounds nice, but the middle/lower class still gets fucked. I liked Herman Cain's 9/9/9 plan (9 percent sales tax, 9 percent income tax and a 9 percent corporate tax) except that 9 percent sales tax will excessively burden the poor since paying 9% extra for their stuff has alot more impact than what 9% sales tax on the rich will have. |
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My old brother in law was on stamps/welfare and when I asked him why doesn't he just take the $35k a year job that he could easily get he said "I'd rather get $24k in state/govt' benefits and play xbox all day then work a boring $35k a year a job." That sums up the problem in this and most other western countries. |
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So what I am going to do next election is vote for the person I think will do the best. And in the meantime I will take care of my business and enjoy life. :) |
People are missing the larger point. When Obama and others ask that the wealthy "pay their fair share" it's not just about a simple numbers calculation.
Over the past decade, the average American has seen their standard of living stagnate or decrease while the wealthy have seen their lifestyles increase at an accelerated rate. The wealthy have made those gains AT THE EXPENSE of the average American. By outsourcing jobs in order to lower costs, investing in emerging markets instead of investing in America, and gambling on risky financial products which caused a collapse in both the housing and stock markets which wiped out the Average American's 401k plan and any equity they had in their homes. So this isn't about simple math and graphs. It's about the wealthy making money at the expense of the average American. |
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gal·va·nizeVerb/ˈgalvəˌnīz/ 1. Shock or excite (someone), typically into taking action: "his voice galvanized them into action". I will admit I'm not 100% happy with Obama's presidency but to think the Republican party wouldn't have put him under siege regardless of what how he preformed is kind of funny. However to say he shocked or excited people into action is a good thing I'd assume..unless you mean the whole tea party thing but over all I see them much the same as the Religious Right morons as I pretty much think they are interchangeable with one another just banded under a new name but the same hate. It's all the Republican party does, when they are not in power. They don't attempt to work with the other party they instead constantly attack and never offer up any solutions. Their solution is "vote for us" then what do they do? Look at Bill Clinton, regardless of if you like him or not you can not argue that that man did not get stuff done. What did the Republicans do the entire time he was in office? They tried to get him and hounded him with every thing under the sun and spent countless tax dollars on a sex scandal. Not to mention did everything possible to fight anything he tried to do. How exactly did that help the country? Now I voted for Obama, not because I expected "change" or for him to fix the economy because I'm smart enough to know that no one is going to fix the mess in Washington with out the country as a whole being galvanized. At this point that hasn't happened so Washington will do what it does, regardless of who is in power. The reason I voted for Obama is because I was tired of Bush's so called war on terror and IMO Obama has done what he said he would in that regard so I'm pretty happy with him there. He said he would pull troops out of Iraq.. He did He said he would focus the war on terror to Afgan where it should have always been. He did. He said he would get Bin Ladden. Although, I really didn't expect this but he did it. We are at war even though many choose to forget it and as such I voted for a president whom I thought would put us back on track in that war. So far Obama has done more than I expected in that regard. As for economy & healthcare I really didn't expect much out of him for that because that takes congress, the senate, big business & the tax payers to work together and I know that will never happen. |
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What are the incentives to keep jobs here? All I'm hearing is tax the snot out of the companies and rich people who run companies and then give more money to those with no jobs. This is the other side of the philosophy that is at the crux of the problem. How about 25% import taxes on raw materials that are easily available in this country, giving companies a zero tax on money they bring in from offshore accounts if they use the money to directly pay someone's salary. How about the US govt' matching $ for $ aany American company making anything here in the US by Americans for another "Buy American" media campaign. Us gov't has no money to spend on this? Redirect money from the bullshit wars we are in, or simply fix the fraud in all the entitlement programs to pay for it. These are things to help americans. The real problem is there's no true patriotism anymore, even the saying of a pledge of allegiance to the US is being banned in schools. |
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Now go a step further, why are 15% of the people in our country unwilling or unable to feed themselves and what should we do with them? I'd agree a percentage of our population is simply incompetent (even in boom years of the economy), but that number historically is nowhere near 15%... so at least some of those people are capable of producing. I'll give you a hint: Most people have not figured out that we can now produce more than we need to consume with less labor than we can supply. In other words, it doesn't take 300M people to make everything we need and more people do not necessarily produce more than less people. That fact will only become more severe as technology continues to improve at an increasingly rapid pace. 100 years from now unemployment will easily be 30%+ no matter what anyone does short of creating 'fake jobs' or orchestrating a massive plague. What do we do with competent people capable of producing who society no longer needs to move forward at peak capacity overall? Having a home, food, internet access, public transport etc will all be FREE. Living a very basic but comfortable lifestyle will require zero work. The people who work will be doing it solely for luxuries (a nicer house, car, jewelry, travel, etc...) If you think all of that sounds unfair, stop inventing things that replace thousands of workers and reduce costs or increase durability. The best thing that can immediately be done to alleviate unemployment is implementing a 4 day 28 hour work week. Take a look at the book The End Of Work which predicted all of this around 20 years ago thanks to plain and simple economic data. :2 cents: |
i heard the other day that the new poor have cable tv and broadband...
an attitude adjustment is what is needed. certainly more taxes need to be collected, no doubt and lets be reasonable. a lot of rich got a lot less rich over the past 5 years. cut cost, cut welfare, cut special interest, cut military. but support business, otherwise we are all screwed. |
and the other problem is we have a president trying to follow financial advisors like Buffett who owes over $1billion in back taxes at the same time he's saying he's not taxed enough (just write a check for $1billion warren if that's the case) and then his " Chairman of the Council on Jobs and Competitiveness" Jeffrey Immelt of GE paid zero corp taxes last year, and is in the process of moving GE operations oversees piece by piece.
The emperor truly has no clothes, Bush was a disaster, Obama is simply throwing some more nails in the coffin. |
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What Obama hasn't done is keep his eye on what's important to the majority. The economy. I saw yesterday that his approval ratings have dropped to 43%. That was on NBC nightly news with Brian Williams. There are still thousands of troops in Iraq and there will be for decades. What does surprise me is the lack of anger and demonstrations with this generation. I served during Vietnam and the campuses were filled with rage against Nixon for escalating Vietnam. We have been in Afghanistan longer now and not even a whimper on campus. I will give him credit for Bin Laden. He had the balls to say GO. And that was a good thing. |
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First he came into office claiming that jobs and the economy were going to be the priority. He promptly spent the next year and a half on a "health care" bill that is not "health care" but instead is a giant gift to insurance companies (tens of millions of new FORCED customers). Now he just gave ANOTHER speech a couple of weeks ago about jobs, jobs, jobs. And what does he do? Goes for a class warfare populist b.s. approach and raises taxes only on the rich? How the fuck does that help stimulate the private sector and cause demand for products to rise and production to increase thus employment rising? It don't. And I just don't get it. Who is advising him on these things? People want to make a living. Insurance companies and taxing rich people are NOT what they need. |
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We have to realize that there are short term issues and long term issues, and we have to address them separately. Any ideas to create jobs short term get attacked because they don't fix the long term problem, and any idea to fix things long term are attacked because they don't create jobs right now. One of the short term fixes is raising taxes on the rich. They have enjoyed historically low taxes for over a decade, even during the longest two wars in American history which is TOTALLY unprecedented for a country to lower taxes several times during war. So asking for an extra 1% or 2% is not all that much. Take that money and use it for infrastructure projects. Taxes are raised and lowered based on needs all the time, so this is not that crazy of an idea. When we had a budget surplus, we lowered taxes, so taxes will come down when the country gets back on it's feet. But that's the problem, when people bring up the tax debate, it opens up all this debate about food stamps and currency rigging and all sorts of things. We have to take it one thing at a time. Some short term, and some long term. So my short term solution would be to raise taxes 2% on those making over 1$ million dollars and use that money for immediate infrastructure projects to get people back to work. Construction projects are great because they employ such a wide range of people, from unskilled laborers all the way up to engineers and scientists. |
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Again real solutions: How about 25% import taxes on raw materials that are easily available in this country, giving companies a zero tax on money they bring in from offshore accounts if they use the money to directly pay someone's salary. How about the US govt' matching $ for $ aany American company making anything here in the US by Americans for another "Buy American" media campaign. Us gov't has no money to spend on this? Redirect money from the bullshit wars we are in, or simply fix the fraud in all the entitlement programs to pay for it. These are things to help americans. The real problem is there's no true patriotism anymore, even the saying of a pledge of allegiance to the US is being banned in schools. |
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I've been a businessman for nearly two decades. I'm smart enough to know that when the average American's lifestyle goes up 1%, my lifestyle goes up 5% because I'm a little higher up on the food chain. So anything that will get Americans back to work, I'm all for it. If I sacrifice 2% extra in taxes and it gets unemployment to start going down, I'll make that money back several times over as Americans have more spending money to buy the products I sell. That's why the super wealthy don't want to raise taxes because they don't make money like I do or anyone on this board does. They make money by investing in emerging markets or investing in crazy derivative schemes so they could care less about unemployment. |
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What a joke. |
The really crazy thing is that if your income is 50k a year, you get to deduct mtge interest, you qualify for medical deductions and child credits etc so your actual tax paid is lower. The guy over 250k gets none of that so even though he pays a higer percent on the bottom line. This whole arguement is stupid.
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otherwise, you'd be trotting out a link to support it. you can't. Minte is right. |
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And Buffett is correct since most of his money is from investmetns it is taxed at like 15%, if he would of Made that money working, or income from a business it would be around 26%. Give or take a few %.. |
i hear that so often, "pay a little more in taxes and that money is spent on constructing new schools and infrastructure", but only after all the politicians and mid management city folks get their share of the pie. in the end this is the worst way to invest in the economy.. sure it sounds good, "we are going to invest in the future..green technology and infrastructure, high speed trains and urban mass transit" what happened to all this?
i am very sorry but in my opinion every additional $ received by the FEDs should be used to pay off the debt, its a burden on the nation and will be for generation if we dont fix the problem. look at Singpore folks, thats how its done.. |
Now we talking. Woot woot 12clicks !
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