Good post and everyone loves you. Here's a better idea.

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18461123&postcount=14

Twistys was a pile of porn stars scenes and little else. It could be a site where the surfer who saw her video for free can see her, learn a bit about her life, who she is, watch her live, phone her, chat online with her. I realise Twistys never had the money to book the girls exclusive Like Wicked, Vivid, etc. But it has the ability to book them in a version of this idea. On a site with 10 or even 20 of the "stars" headlining the site.

Forget about my one example of using new girls, adapt it to the Twistys format. The idea can be used on any format, niche or style of site. It's about who the model is rather than just another video of her. And tough and pointless to pirate.

The wall of Paul just hit, text skimming mode enabled.

I have a better idea. A sponsor opens his own Tube and cuts you out entirely. Then he doesn't pay you, can have full control, gets paid from the sales to webcam and dating sites and sure where the traffic goes. Let's face it anyone like Shap with the vision and skill to create Twistys can do what you do.

Content will always be King. Because content is the only thing that brings surfers we can sell to. The problem is 99.9% of sites don't agree and have medium to crap content. Yes it's shot on HD and in focus. Still crap. And boring.

Then Tubes started hammering in the nails. Why pay for this boring recorded porn when it's free?

Or more importantly, why keep trying to sell it when it's being given away for free?

Been saying this for years and been ridiculed, now Shap says it and everyone thinks it's a great idea. Read the message not the Nick before deciding if it's a great or crap idea.

Most solo girl sites failed because there was never enough money to keep the girl working or exclusive. The few that did are exception. Making a Multi Girl version of the solo girl site is the way forward. It can only be done by the big guys and with people behind the operation who understand porn and it's buyers needs.

A great salesman can sell sand in the Desert, or ice to an Eskimo. Once. After that the repeat sales rely on the customers satisfaction with the product.

Selling a repeat buy product relies 90% on the product. Unless you keep buying a product you don't like. :winkwink:

You've got my song sheet there? :winkwink:

I don't give a fuck about your ideas.

Just please don't replies to my posts. I don't want to read you.

Thanks in advance.

Cheaper pricing can work wonders. If the trend is for members to join, cancel and then come back 6-12 months later, they're not being given enough incentive to stick around. Something needs to change so that the only way for a member to see large amounts of new content is to stay an active member of the site.

Time release of content in conjunction with automated content rotation cycles AND updates by date can be helpful for smaller sites. Many times this enables even a very small site to benefit from offering low priced trials. With hot content and the right hook this strategy can convert to full price memberships quite well.

As far as bought traffic being worth it, in order for it to be worth it you'd need to already have a site that's converting that type of traffic at a decent rate. You're right, in today's market, profiting from a costly tube advertising campaign that's promoting a solo site without cams and heavy interaction would be a very big challenge.

I didn't say you can't make money on it, i said its very much possible, but do i think the typical paysite can, no and tinkering isn't enough for those paysites, those people who would disagree probably run very large networks or a very large website. I dont think advertising on tubes is the best option for small-medium sized paysites is all im saying

Theres a reason more dont give it a try, it doesn't make very much sense. I was weary before i did it, i tested it , as have many other webmasters i speak to and none of them have continued to do so.

While i do think webmasters don't jump onboard with new ideas as most are stuck in their ways, however this is definitely not one most are missing out on.

Feel free to contact me and give me a free test, or something along those lines. Ill be happy to do anything you wish to try to profit on tube traffic and ill post the results.

And as far as you throwing out his reputation with what he has grown, while im not knocking at what hes created, i believe alot of people on gfy underestimate when a product was launched. Do i believe the majority of people who have built their empires could if they started over from scratch in 2011, i sure do not. I think most of them are pretty intelligent and work hard but there are alot of very intelligent people who cannot grow networks like twistys these days because times have changed. The internet was very accepting to hard working people with ideas, gallery submitters were retiring at 25-30 years old. I could go on. If you think reputations or what you've done is going to make me listen to what they've got to say, then show me what you've really done besides adapt.

I know alot of people who I wouldn't consider very intelligent people who have became very successful because of the time they got into the industry and because they actually kept working on it through the times. Instead of sitting on their hands. This industry attracts alot of unmotivated, just plain lazy individuals who are looking to make an easy buck, its always been like that and while alot of people still failed in 1999-2004, the ones who succeeded aren't exactly people that should be looked at like they've got any more ability than the typical webmaster who is semi successful in 2011.

For example, i think Shap is a very intelligent guy, do i think he could recreate twistys or even something close to that magnitude with no budget right now? I dont believe so. And thats even with the reputation and connections he's already made by making it to where he is now.

Edit-- Really hope this post doesn't look like a knock on Shap, i simply used him as an example of why i think what a person owns who what theyve created doesn't always reflect their knowledge and ability.

I dont think you guys understand the workings of a smaller-medium sized paysite. they are not being given enough incentive to stick around? Of course not. Content is being given away for free all across the web. Sites like pornhub give away just about anything you can ask for, nevermind filelockers. If we were to give away as much as members wanted to stick around each month, we would be producing a ton more content and that would cost more money to produce than what the extra product is bringing in.

Maybe not all are cancelling and signing up 6 months later but its a large enough percent to where you'd really feel the hurt when those people are signing up for a cheap trial or something along those lines.

I dont recommend trials or cheap memberships on any solo girl website, let that be known. I am sure many have tested cheaper pricing and i haven't seen that stick on any website in my niche.

:321gfy :321gfy :321gfy :321gfy

how can you do a one click upsell from streamate to your own paysite? you must be talking about something else because a true one click upsell from one company to another is against VISA's rules. show me how this one click upsell works please.

Still thinking in the box of just recorded scenes.

great post. nice to see you sharing some ideas to help the industry now that you are a free man
:thumbsup
this is THE most important change that happened in the last 24-36 months. the affiliate model is dead, unless those affiliates can make money buying traffic and sending it to the paysite (at their 40-70% share).

there's no point providing affiliates with promo tools. they just need site links. the free content model no longer brings in sales for paysites. traffic has to be bought from non-tube sources at an acceptable profit margin.

Hey Shap take the money you sold out with and fuck off.

Like my idea.

The question I will put to you is the same one I get thrown at me all the time.

So why didn't you do it when you had a chance to?"

You only had paysites to concern yourself with, was in the position of having girls you could promote and sell as people or any way you call it this is the basis of your ideas.

So why did you keep just adding recorded porn to Twistys and not try to sell the girls themselves of the Tube traffic.

YOU'VE SEEN Kayden Kross VIDEOS, NOW MEET HER IN PERSON, LIVE AND FOR REAL ONLINE. AND IF YOU WANT TO CHAT WITH HER.

You were in an excellent position to do this. Some of the girls you obviously feature a lot. I assume they're members favorites. So why didn't you step up to the next level?

Not having a go at you, asking what were the problems doing this. Because it's been something I've been saying for a while now. Would like to know the problems in doing it.

Again you don't know what you're talking about Paul. Shap didn't just have paysites to concern himself with - he owned large free sites like Sextube and Thumbzilla amongst others.

And Twistys did add live pornstar interactive cam shows. I'm sure if he had kept Twistys he would have done more live cam stuff but realize that a glamour model or pornstar would cost about 500 dollars for hanging out with Twistys members for a few hours, so add 15K a month.

NaughtyAmerica tried the live interactive thing on as big a scale as anybody has in the industry. They were practically runnning their own cable channel with shows featuring live porn chicks all day. It's gone now - just too expensive.

Now what if Naughty America, Bangbros, Brazzers, RK, Pimproll, got together and shared the costs to provide their members live access to porn stars on cam - it would work.

Cams are far from the cure for falling sales for paysites. The problem is piracy and the economy. Shap and other paysite owners have accepted this, you keep insisting that it's the quality of the content that is a big reason for falling paysite sales, you're wrong but content is the only part of the biz you have a lot of experience in so you continue to beat that dead horse. Web surfers get great value and content these days on these paysite networks. So if a big % of surfers have decided they won't pay for porn no matter how good that porn is people like Shap are trying to use their content to draw them in and sell them something else, cams, dating, penis crap etc or sell off the traffic/advertising to people who can turn a profit on it, from what i've seen mostly snake oil and scams, or people desperate for traffic. If I could total the cost of traffic sold to desperate or newb webmasters it would be in the billions.

Another way of saying "it couldn't be afforded.".

Now go tell Shap it's been tried and too expensive.

I was under the impression these sites were all making millions. :1orglaugh

Well I wasn't. I knew how much they were making and had to spend on the members areas. So did you, trying to sell solo girl scenes for peanuts.

Today you're dead right, piracy and the amount of free in a recession is killing the business. When the recession ends, the free won't. There will be no turn around for the industry.

Yes maybe it was too expensive for one site and I've said it could work as a plug in for many. Maybe Brazzers can step up. Staying selling recorded porn won't do anything but take joins others had, destroying some of them to convert a few. When there is no more extra traffic to add to their traffic stream, the big guys will suffer.

Here's the real problem.

The cost of traffic from day 1 has been too much. Paying the amount we did and letting affiliates steer the ship was like putting a moron in charge of the Titanic. Only time before the iceberg appeared. Today it's still full speed ahead for online porn.

Mutt do you have a better idea?

back when i was doing a lot of affiliate work (cuz money was growing on trees) i ALWAYS bought a membership to any site i promoted. why else would you promote it? because they have a nice tour and banners? unless you know first-hand it is good, how can you recommend it to your traffic?

of course the porn business had a lot more standards and values pre-2005..

Most important thing would be the security of the site. You definitely wouldn't want users to download your videos, so you'd enable streaming via some media server similar to Wowza, so they can't sniff HTTP packets and get the direct download link. Regarding the pictures, you should have some script that would in the process of rar'ing the pic set for the download inject username of the user who requested the download in the each pic's Metadata info - so you'd know who leaked them. Metadata can be changed, but no one actually looks at it, most of the time anyway.

Users should be able to upgrade their account for $20 that would give them the chance of getting 2 DVD's monthly per their choice shipped for free. I'm not sure about the price though, but streaming is a prefered option for most surfers.

Now this obviously isn't implemented anywhere, otherwise I wouldn't be writing it here. But I'll most likely make a paysite like that in my country, as there are literally no paysites at all.

1.There should be no interaction between users and the actresses.
2. If you're planning to make the site locally, block all other IP ranges - and display an error message.
3. If it's worldwide, block all smaller countries known for fraud.
4. Let users whitelist a country for their account.

I'm not sure if all of this would work, but yeah that's what I'd try to do.

Definitely can be done with the 3rd party guys email me I'll explain

Feel free to email me anytime. Maybe i can give you some feedback on how you are approaching things that can help you out. I've been where you are and know what it's like.

It's not as cut and dry as you think as a program owner with your shit everywhere. Many times it's extremely overwhelming. Most programs are a lot smaller than you think and have much less staff (and probably very few capable staff) than they would need to execute what they'd ideally want to execute. Fighting piracy is a bitch i know with Twistys I could have hired 10 people that do nothing but fight it all day every day and there would still have been site rips up. That said it doesn't justify me giving an affiliate full scenes just because a pirate site has it and it also doesn't mean I have the time to prepare 1000s of flvs for an affiliate because they want it. It's really complicated but it boils down to resources available and how to make the most of those resources.

Here is a question for you. Brazzers, RK, Bang, Twistys give you 10,000 flvs on Monday. You build your tube. Fantastic. Now here is the kicker how are you going to get traffic to that tube and how are you going to make money for them?

Also why would a surfer go to your tube instead of YouJizz. Why go to a site to see 3 minutes of a clip instead of the entire scene?

Few comments on your posts.

1. Lower pricing is all about trying to find the people that are willing to pull out their credit card. If your site isn't the one for them and they cancel after spending $1 is all lost? HELL NO! You just found someone who is willing to buy porn. HELLO CASH REGISTER! Your job then becomes finding a site they would like and help sending them there and getting PAID for it :winkwink:

2. Obviously it's harder in 2011 but people are still launching sites and being successful. Great example is x-art.

3. I understand the challenges of solo girl sites. I always try to think of solutions instead of repeating and harping on excuses. Stop limiting your thought process with what you can't do and think about what you can do. Sure solo girl sites have less content. They can't compete with tubes. But real solo girl sites have something tubes can't compete with. They have a person to person connection in most cases a model that the surfer really likes and can get in touch with. You can offer a true experience that tubes can't match and make a killing doing it. As men we are so weak. A girl looks in our direction and we think she wants us. Run properly a solo girl site can be very successful but it's all about running it just right.

i will, what's your email address?

Thanks :winkwink: From time to time I'll have too much caffeine and get a little time on my hands and just feel like typing :1orglaugh I figured might as well throw down a few of my ideas and maybe somebody else can benefit.

I believe there is a great opportunity for old school affiliates right now. The key is they have to realize where the industry is and where it is going. I'm sure some can survive moving forward but most will not. So what they should do is find a way to offer their services to smaller paysite companies. Guys like RK may not be interested but a lot of the other paysite companies are slim staffed companies that can't do everything. Partnering up with them and using their resources and your skills could prove to work out really well for both of you.

88shap at gmail

That's a fair question. We always had too much going on. If we only ran Twistys that would have been ideal for really making a go at it. We were spread really thin. We had Twistys, TeenPinkVideos, HeatherVandeven, and 15 other paysites. In free sites we had GayTube, SexTube, TrannyTube, BigBreastlovers, Thumbzilla. We had so many things going we just didn't have the time to execute all our ideas.

Another big reason is because of the breakdown of our staff. We were heavy on employees but very very slim on programming/technical staff. That really hurt and slowed us down. So we it came down to making a choice should we have our technical resources spend their time on revamping our backend and preparing it for future growth and enhancements or should we try this new tour thing. Twistys was always a site that was powered by the members and their devotion to the site so it was obvious that improving the members area trumped trying a new tour.

Have you seen what LiveGonzo.com is doing? I think they are really close to something awesome. The key is getting everyone interested and willing to play together.

yea thats a good idea. it is really hard to find good marketers in porn. my porn marketing biz went idle because i couldn't find the labor to fill simple jobs like traffic/campaign manager and gallery submitter. designers are a dime a dozen, and there's plenty of clients, but you can't sell design. you have to sell conversions. and that takes man-hours.

marketing porn today takes the same skills it did in 2002. 8 hours a day on the keyboard pushing links. very few people have the work ethic to do it fulltime. i've hired a dozen people over the past 2 years for marketing, and they either get lazy and disappear, or can't do the work. there's huge opportunities in porn marketing for guys that can deliver results, but i think the few that can do the work are already booked.

None of you offered me a job when I became available and I have Sean as a reference. :P

But since this is Sean's advice thread, I want to pass along one of the best advice he and Michael reminded me at twistys: stay on point

Want to talk politics, the latest game scores, or hot celebrities? Pick up the phone and give your friends a call. That's what friends are for. And there are other, WAY BETTER boards suited to those specific areas.

You don't see any of the big dogs responding to those threads. The owner of the hottest fucking paysite right now, has maybe 40 posts to her name here on this board, and she's putting all of us to shame.

Mull it over

:error

You are wrong.

Stop giving advice to people about stuff you don't understand.

Similar situation as Eva and I. We were up to our eyes in shooting magazine sets.

We agree on this. Is there is a solution to the mess we created it's inside the members area with the dead horse. :1orglaugh

Unless someone comes up with a way to find millions of new surfers who don't want free or a method to drive traffic that doesn't involve the cost and giving the product away. And that's been beyond us for 12 years.

No but will have a look. Someone has to cross the fence of costs.

If $500 a day for a model is too much, pay her less. She's got to do it to get the good paying days. Or sit at home on her ass.

$500 = 100 joins a day extra. By the time affiliates and other costs are paid, that leaves too little IMO. Maybe 300 a day, 9,000 a month.

So instead of giving up on the idea, people have to figure out how to make it work. Private shows for the girls, tips, selling other products like live phone sex. The solution belongs to the winner.

i'm trying to understand your point. if we want to be successful, we should stay off gfy?

i get several new customers a week from gfy, so that point is a fail lol

The last point wasn't specifically targeting you King. It was a statement directed to the wider audience.

Just look at the kind of threads Fabian, Sean, Collette, etc, respond to.

ah lol ya i dont even read those. i just look for business related threads..

3 minutes clip are most than enough for most people.

Tubes get most of their traffic from google. That's because of their size. They are huge.


E erybody complains about illegal tubes taking theirsearch results and they want to fight with 20 posts blogs, or 2000videos tubes.

The only way to get traffic to compete with them is being huge and updating lots of times a day.

Just every sponsor give their affs flvs for all their scenes and you will see.

interesting how you make such a statement when it someone else's asset

why not buy xhamster and do just that.

Somewhat true, but it varies. Have a look at who buys traffic from thehun

Not really. There are plenty of tubes who update a lot and they get no where. You need to spend money to get some traffic. See above point.

I wouldn't try to compete with other tubes who have a significant head start in traffic and breadth of content. If you want to do a tube, try going for content depth and traffic focus, ie a niche

I don't think you understand how the tubes get their traffic and more importantly how they rank so high. I encourage you to do a lot more research because your plan right now would fail miserably.

Wow, that was going to be my response, but I thought it would come off as harsh and because I'm not rich enough to say it that way. :P

interesting that you have an i'm live banner in your sig announcing new 70 dollar pps:1orglaugh
i know you are into the whole time shifting thing but really;)