50 clouds running away from the old man yelling at them.

The attention I get from business people is all I cared about. The attention from trolls and failures means little.

PJ is great at throwing abuse, picking holes in my statements is clearly above him. I suspect like most people like him, he has nothing to offer. Knows that and hides the fact.

Damian hasn't realised he has nothing to offer, yet still keeps offering it. Others and me have clearly pointed out how little he had to offer on his MacDonalds example. Yes he calls himself a marketing man. :Oh crap

You all can use these threads for positive and constructive things or for venting your frustrations regarding PM. I find the threads he starts interesting, I don't have to agree with him to participate and if I disagree with him I can still stay on topic and stay away from personal attacks. Anybody thinking he's a loser; as long as you keep reading him including on a Sunday afternoon, you're not any better yourself.

To me, Paul is just Paul. He doesn't annoy me, if he did I would put him on ignore.

If you think you're better than them, they aren't worth your time, then you should put them on your ignore list. I put PJ on there quite some time ago because to me he just barks and never posts anything I could benefit or learn from. Haven't made up my mind about Damian yet. I see him as my little brother somehow.

i have paul on ignore but unfortunately i am not logged in sometimes and i am forced to read his droolings.

i have counterpointed paul's points before but he just ignored them and carried on the same old points like a broken record.

he is just interesting from a morbid psychological perspective now.

it is like he has an ignore function in his brain and "reality" and "logic" are ticked off.

Using the Golden Rules to sell your porn.

A product does not sell itself. Even the best needs some help. The worse needs a lot of help.

The easiest part online. Get people to spread your product around, adverting and promotion online is easier than other areas in selling.

Stacking shelves or holding a big notice board up for people to see isn't selling.

Yet just putting up tons of porn on display isn't doing the above very well.

You have to have a product worth buying.

If it's no better, no worse, no different from 1,000 others it's hard to sell. It's even harder to retain that buyer. In online porn, you're product has to be better than the rest to sell and keep the member a member.

It has to compete in the market of today, not yesterday.

Absolutely essential today. Today is the day of Tubes, quick wanks are not a reason to buy porn. If porn was still sold cellophane wrapped in shops where getting your dick out to have a want is illegal. Porn would sell like it used to. If all sites offered was a TGP with compressed images and videos, porn would sell like it did in 2004. Tubes are a fact of life, few have understood that when it came to selling. They just loaded Tubes with more free porn.

The more the seller knows about his product, it's use and the customers needs, the more he will sell

Explained why that's essential if you want to sell a product better than others.

Knowing what the customer needs and how your product fills that need is paramount. How can you sell something like a sizzling pork steak, if you're a vegetarian and you're trying to sell it to a Jew. Isn't selling. Extreme example, still to show knowing the product and customers needs is paramount.

Respect customers, they are the boss.

I don't have to explain that do I?

An example to show Brian how I kept up with the market.

I could see online was developing into a great place to sell content I had already shot. So let brokers have it. Then saw it was growing faster then my brokers could keep up selling our product. So opened a store with fairly high prices and restricted license.

Then saw some customers needs for a cheap content and with a less restricted license, so rather than include a cheap section and attach a different license to content in that section We opened a new store. Two selling arms supplying our customers needs.

Tried shooting custom found it lost money for us long term. For us non exclusive was worth more and cash flow was never a problem.

Online of course was our second level of income, trying to explain to most about the benefits of selling to magazines is pointless. Might as well be trying to tell a vegetarian the benefits of steaks. :1orglaugh

BOTTOM LINE

If you know how to sell, you're still in business making great money in porn right now.

If you're learning how to sell, you're still in business making good money in porn right now.

If you don't know how to sell then you're not making much money in porn right now and are on your way out.

If you have a weakness in business hire someone that knows what they are doing to bring you forward. If you don't know how to sell, hire someone who does.

Very simple.

People keep quoting PJ and Damian like they have something of worth to add to a debate. Often shows the level of the person quoting.

Still I do have a short fuse when it comes to idiots. And love to tease them. :(

As for debate on a subject. You need to offer your view and let people constructively debate that view. And be ready to consider what they say. I'm not good at the last point. But will respect those who are better at my job than I am.

If Jack Harrison tells me I'm shooting wrong, I sit and listen and learn. If Damian says it. I point out he's clueless about shooting porn. :1orglaugh Still listening to the advice, just responding differently depending on the person giving me the advice.

Don't listen to my advice on programming. Listen on shooting porn, selling and marketing porn it in the market. Because I have a track record for doing that, you can judge the advice. True I don't know much about driving traffic. Do not how to sell to that traffic when it arrives.

Just awesome. Paul both knows about marketing and doesn't know about it all in the same paragraph. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Spot on.

Not completely right. You have to know who to hire and if he's doing the job well with your product or if he's not where hes going wrong.

Few are that big in online porn to loosen their grip on employees. The "I hire someone who can do that job". Or "I have people who look after that side." Is wrong. You could have the wrong people and not know it.

Big corporations are built on a pyramid basis. Man at the top has 10 under him to deal with the ten different aspects of the business. They each have tan under them. Who have 10 under them.

The basis of a great business, organisation or Army. All the man at the top has to do is get the right 10 under him. That's tough not knowing whet that 10 will be doing, which is why they go on courses and research the job. Also a CV helps.

Hiring a salesman is a minefield. He's got to be persuasive to be a salesman, good or bad. If you don't know what the interviewee needs to do in an interview situation. You're up a creek without a paddle surrounded by crocodiles in a leaking canoe. :1orglaugh

Trust me I've interviewed good talkers for the job of salesman, who couldn't sell iced cold water in the Desert. :1orglaugh

MacDonald's isn't a shitty product. It sells itself, because it's a decent hamburger and fries at a cheap price, with convenient service.

It's a pretty bad way to look at business...that you can just trick people into buying shit. Anyone that persists in scamming people by selling a shitty product won't have longevity.

It's funny that almost no one at least agrees that having something good to sell that will keep people coming back -- is well, kind of important.

qft, Mcdonalds has done well as a company and no one goes there because they want an upscale-restaurant-like burger, they go there because they're hungry and want something quick to eat. I had a egg & bacon mcgriddle this morning, was fucking great.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh so true.

This guy is a glutton for punishment... I guess he prefers having a whole internet forum to argue with than to sit around some coffee table and rambling on with a bunch of other old dimwitted cooks...

If you sell anything that you need people to buy every month, it's more than important. It's essential.

Tomorrow, more thoughts on how to apply the Golden Rules to your situation. Don't open the thread if you don't want to read.

It's not so much of a debate, as you posting things that are wrong, other people pointing out exactly why you are wrong, and you then not having any kind of attempt at a counterpoint and just call them idiots.

Paul: You need a good product
Damian: No you don't, you need to spend loads marketing it, here is the proof
Paul YOU IDIOT!

That's not a debate Paul, that's you trolling. And you do it well. I mean, you can't really think Macdonalds is 'good'. No one is that stupid. Not even you!

LOL!!!111oneoneone

What you need to do to "debate" this is take my point, that MacDonalds is only successful because they spend billions on advertising and prove that if they stopped this advertising spend they would still be as successful because they are selling a "good" product. Then prove that it is a "good" product.

Or you can just call me names and insult me. Cos that makes you look intelligent.

Said the nuts and bolts of my next post. :1orglaugh
The rest of the post was a lesson in selling a repeat buy product after the customer has bought once. Selling never stops, even after he's been sold to.

Purely on ease of access and saturation, selling porn today has to be very good, sharp and accurate. The blunderbuss approach is for those who were in porn in the 80s, today you need a rifled barrel with an accurate shooter to get a kill.

So for sponsors start at the beginning. By thinking "What can I create with my skills and available tools, knowledge and budget?" Then think, "How many others can do exactly the same or even better?"

Because if 100s can do the same as you, you're following in their wake and trying to pick up the scraps they left behind. Best thing is to find someone to form a partnership with and make sure the two of you can make something 100s or even 1,000s can't.

Met-Art can do something 100s or ever 10s can't and we know their success. Can you duplicate their site and content? Probably not and that's why Met-Art are at the top of the tree with the elite. and everyone wants to send them traffic. Well at least try them. Problem is they are inundated with affiliates.

So todays selling and marketing has to start with the product. And here's one way to tackle it.

Tubes cannot be competed with by membership sites. Do not tryunless you like losing. Tubes can put up more content, more often and get more traffic than anyone. Yet there's something they can't do or haven't nailed down yet. The personal touch.

When a surfer lands on a site he's often greeted with a stack of girls photos and some videos, samples from the members area. After a while they all look the same and on many tours they can get the surfer bored or get him off.

Show him something different. Show him the girls, or boys for gay, as people. If it's a "porn star" niche site show them as porn stars. If it's an amateurs site show them as housewives earning some extra money and having fun. Sell them the story of the model.

Make her real, make her horny, cougar, teen, leggy, big tit. To fit your site. Sell her as a story of being what the site's about.

Shoot tailor made videos, just for the tour, with drop in edits from the content such as;

Will use Sandra who I shot for Mofos as an example here. Just one way to shape it, you need to be clever enough to come up with other ways, or get someone who can.

Tour video start with Sandra walking through the park on her way to a shoot. She's telling people she's a porn model and loves her job, cut to make up, cut to part of the scene, then to the end where an exhausted Sandra sweating and panting can barely talk. Then cut to the bath, where she tells the viewer she has to wipe off the sweat from the previous scene and finish in the kitchen again exhausted fro a long good fucking herself session with a dildo beside her. Telling the audience. She needs you to watch this scene, so the nice guys at Mofos get her back to do it all again For you guys to enjoy.

This was off the top of my head and didn't think it out, don't need to. The script is where I get it right, this is the skeleton on the idea. Can be shot 10 different ways. The story you're selling is SANDRA. Because selling the story of her sitting on a sofa banging herself with a dildo has been done to death on 10,000 tours. and if Sandra is what makes it different. Sell her story.

now affiliates have something they can advertise as a lure to the site for those who want to see Sandra, for those who want any dumb girl on a sofa banging herself with a dildo. The tubes are flooded with it.

The challenge for, is to take a gem of an idea, adapt it to their site and improve on it.

The above was free and I took 10 minutes to think it out. If paid I take a lot longer to nail it down.

The hard part is getting models who can string a sentence together in English, can still be done in a similar way.

Or to get a shooter who is capable of bringing a girl out of her porn shell.

Or to get out of the mode of loading sites with tons of churned out cheap content.

You lost me there.

Yes you're an idiot.

You were shot to pieces on the MacDonalds thing and still you come back with it. Not by me, I was being kind. By others.

I don't think Macdonalds are "Good Hamburgers" and they know it as well. They sell cheap, consistent, ease, speed, convenience. If they were selling good hamburgers they would have good hamburgers with prime beef, succulent juicy and very expensive.

Shame when a marketing man hasn't got a clue about how others market.

So a good salesman or marketing man can sell anything given the budget.

Is that right?

I will let others point out the idiocy of that and leave you alone.

Is this how old age looks like? I do not want to live that long.

QFT :thumbsup

you are fucking insane. someone call the glue factory. i'll bring the truck around.

Barry, how would you tailor my idea to your site for white labels and advertising, when you don't want to give away free chat to advertisers?

Giving a great free gift that encourages someone to buy has always been great marketing. giving them a free gift that discourages buying is crap marketing.

As Damian knows he's put his foot in his mouth again, here's why he's an idiot.

People with a shit product, usually don't get repeat sales. Selling a shit product is often a one off sale and these people often don't have money to spend on excessive marketing. Fast food, is just that. Fast food. Fast convenient, easy, available, great shakes, fries and apple pies.

If you want a great burger, then you have to search out for a great burger place, there's one on Broadway and one on Sunset Blvd or is it Santa Monica Blvd? They are few and far between, expensive, slow and sometime you have to wait for a table. Not in the same sort of sort of business as MacDonalds. Horses for course Damian.

Know your product and market.

The companies that dominate the market like McDonald's and Coke produce an average product aggressively sold and marketed as Damian correctly explained. (a product dangerous to a persons health )

They also study how much salt/sugar children / adults find addictive. Offer shops free fridges on condition that only their product is stocked. Study the colors children find attractive etc, and spend millions on advertising, so that the average Joe thinks he can't live without a Mac or Coke.

Markham doesn't want to have a real discussion but it is some sort of mental need to be at the center of attention.

The real Paul Markham can be seen in the scene he shot, for anyone with eyes, it is there to be seen. It was to show how it can be done better. It showed just an average poorly shot scene. Even Damian with all his skills and with McDonald's ad budget could not sell it.

This thread made me smile.

This came to me while chatting to a friend in the business.

You can film a girl on a $500,000 camera, with lighting by a professional film crew, sound by a Stones Concert sound crew mixer and deck.

Have an image so sharp you can cut your self on it. Lighting so good, you need tinted glasses to watch and sound so good you think you're in there with her and your nose is 3 inches away from her pussy.

And then stick something the size of a small dog up her ass and pussy.

But if she looks like she's got as much real emotion as my Mum when she's knitting dicks will droop. :1orglaugh

OK that was me being funny. Still it's an obvious situation. No matter how sharp the image, lighting and sound are. If the porn is dull it's a failure. People don't watch amateur because of the image quality. They watch it for the porn quality.

Get good hot hard real fucking on and just press the button. It will sell. Spend a fortune on equipment and shoot dull boring faked porn and no matter what, it's just another girl on another sofa with a dick in her.

http://www.smilies.our-local.co.uk/i.../sleepsofa.gif

Agreed, but the freebie mustn't make buying pointless.

Mind you Dating might disagree with you. :1orglaugh

So.... why doesn't your porn sell then?

Just curious.

Why do your pay sites make almost zero money for you when they feature the best porn ever?

We're all kinda wondering.

Seems there must be a lot more to it than what your describing because everything you describe means you would be a multimillionaire being that you know traffic is easy and you have the best content ever.

Maybe marketing has something to do with it?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

That's quite a bit exaggerated. McDonald's and Coke aren't the healthiest foods but they don't make you ill either and one could survive on them if neccessary.

Kids don't get ADHD from coke, they get ADHD because their parents are fucked up.

To recap - the world according to Paul:

1) Traffic is EASY
2) Content is KING
3) He's winding down his business in spite of having terabytes of the best content ever (in his mind) and being able to get "Easy traffic"... because he can't figure out how to sell his content to a surfer.
4) He does nothing but lecture on how to sell content to a surfer.

because if good content alone is enough to make one millions ... well ...

http://xhamster.com/movies/265560/pa...threesome.html

Paul, why do you hate yourself so much?

You shouldn't debate with people who are negative and treat you like shit because they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. You start these threads with positive intentions but every time you allow them to infect you with their negativity and you turn negative as well. As for debating with them, it's the same thing over and over again, and you cannot win it. So you're like Don Quichot fighting windmills. Whatever you post, they will say the opposite, just for the sake of arguing.

At the end of the day you go to bed and you may look back and ask yourself... what did I today, what did I achieve? You spent a day arguing with idiots online. What else could you have done? For me the perfect day usually is the day on which I kept my PC shut down all day. I might have turned on my Apple to do some video-editing, it's not connected to the web though.

Or maybe you're just on the wrong forum. Beer and Bollocks wasn't much either though was it? Lot of keyboard knights on there as well :1orglaugh

385,000 views. too bad. Paul could have made an easy $11mil+ ($29.95 x385k) if that video hadn't been on a tube site and seen for free.

Don't forget indefinite rebills because the content is just that awesome and exactly what the surfer is looking for!

$11,000,000.00 X forever = ??

Comedy gold right there :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Awesome counterpoint.

Where did that happen? A few fatties said they liked Macdonalds. That's all. You would really have to be very stupid to think that anything other than advertising sells that shit to those fat idiots.


Cool. So your point about it being a golden rule (lol) to have a good product to sell was wrong. Excellent. We are making progress.

And they sell it by spending BILLIONS on marketing.

Of course it is. There is proof of that all around you every day. Most of what is sold is shit. And they spend a fortune making you think it is good and you want it.

Marketing is clever, eh?

Good advice, will try not to sink to their level.

B.Barnato join my ignore list.

Bet that lasts for ages.

Coke is nice. Not as nice as Seven Up, but that's personal preference. Can't drink either now, so academic for me.

McDonald's and Coke have very aggressive marketing and the products aren't good for anyone if eaten or drunk in excess. Still people like them.

However their point is about as irrelevant as most examples held up. The situation is online porn doesn't have the money to compete at that level. Not the marketing personal to compete at that level. So without that, whether any shit can be marketed successfully if "enough" money is spent. It's a pointless example.

I've seen movies where millions were spent making and marketing them. and walked out half way through. True they didn't refund my money. The point is Sony has millions to spend to market the film.

We have $1,000 and you get what you pay for. A lot of people throwing out free content to get millions of hits and thousands, if they're lucky of sales. Hits on the free stuff not on the sites paying to give it away for free. That's all we can afford. :(

So we have to maximise the hits on the site when they arrive, both the free site and the paysite. Generating hits is a first part of the job, converting those hits into surfers on the tour, then members, then retained members. Are the second, third and fourth part of the job. And the tough part.

The second, third and fourth part are where the selling starts. The marketing comes before in shaping and "display" of the product. The product is "selling" to the surfer.

Now as Barry says says do you sell the sizzle and the story?

Both need to be created. And in online porn in 2011 it's a tough job. With the limited budget we have it only makes it tougher.

So here's an idea for Cam sites, especially white label with no live chat available.

A lot of live chat sites look the same. Rows of girls pics, some online some not. Little selling, just laid out. The surfer doesn't know who to choose, who can chat to him about what he likes, his favorite fetish. They're just anonymous girls. So sell the girls story, right there on that page. Just a bit and sell more on her page. and let the right guys hit up the right girls. you need to know what the girls can chat about of course.

If nothing else it will look different and that will grab attention, which is the first part of selling.

For a plug in white label a little video of the girl. Might work if adapted. Just thinking aloud. Throwing out ideas.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

True, but made a pretty penny out of it. Of course it's a piece of shit anyone could of knocked up and the comments from the viewers prove how bad it is. I was ashamed to read them .

I should listen more to the people on the board about my shooting, they have it spot on. :(

You're not gonna dmca? Or did you god forbid sell them the video to use on the tubes?

He licenses his videos to tube site owners because he needs the money. That's been the case for a long time. You wouldn't think so from hearing him talk though...

Pretty much all common sense. But..

Which is something your content or the way you run your business hasn't done and why your advice is hardly taken seriously here in 2011.

While the point may be valid, in the car salesman world knowing about cars does NOT make you a better salesman, most likely a worse one when you get all wrapped up in arguing over a cars specs with a potential customer instead of selling them a car. You aren't selling cars because of how much you know about them. You move cars because you know how to move some fucking cars.

Selling and marketing are not actually related.

Lots of whores can sell their bodies - few can market them in a way that generates real cashflow. :2 cents:

Eg.; I have a small engine repair dude and a lawn care dude who sold me their services. They do a great fucking job. They can't market themselves, though.

If they COULD market themselves, this enitre continent would be bright green - and no tiller or riding mower would ever break down.

Marketing has nothing to do with selling. A completely different animal.