Agreed, but the freebie mustn't make buying pointless.

Mind you Dating might disagree with you. :1orglaugh

So.... why doesn't your porn sell then?

Just curious.

Why do your pay sites make almost zero money for you when they feature the best porn ever?

We're all kinda wondering.

Seems there must be a lot more to it than what your describing because everything you describe means you would be a multimillionaire being that you know traffic is easy and you have the best content ever.

Maybe marketing has something to do with it?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

That's quite a bit exaggerated. McDonald's and Coke aren't the healthiest foods but they don't make you ill either and one could survive on them if neccessary.

Kids don't get ADHD from coke, they get ADHD because their parents are fucked up.

To recap - the world according to Paul:

1) Traffic is EASY
2) Content is KING
3) He's winding down his business in spite of having terabytes of the best content ever (in his mind) and being able to get "Easy traffic"... because he can't figure out how to sell his content to a surfer.
4) He does nothing but lecture on how to sell content to a surfer.

because if good content alone is enough to make one millions ... well ...

http://xhamster.com/movies/265560/pa...threesome.html

Paul, why do you hate yourself so much?

You shouldn't debate with people who are negative and treat you like shit because they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. You start these threads with positive intentions but every time you allow them to infect you with their negativity and you turn negative as well. As for debating with them, it's the same thing over and over again, and you cannot win it. So you're like Don Quichot fighting windmills. Whatever you post, they will say the opposite, just for the sake of arguing.

At the end of the day you go to bed and you may look back and ask yourself... what did I today, what did I achieve? You spent a day arguing with idiots online. What else could you have done? For me the perfect day usually is the day on which I kept my PC shut down all day. I might have turned on my Apple to do some video-editing, it's not connected to the web though.

Or maybe you're just on the wrong forum. Beer and Bollocks wasn't much either though was it? Lot of keyboard knights on there as well :1orglaugh

385,000 views. too bad. Paul could have made an easy $11mil+ ($29.95 x385k) if that video hadn't been on a tube site and seen for free.

Don't forget indefinite rebills because the content is just that awesome and exactly what the surfer is looking for!

$11,000,000.00 X forever = ??

Comedy gold right there :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Awesome counterpoint.

Where did that happen? A few fatties said they liked Macdonalds. That's all. You would really have to be very stupid to think that anything other than advertising sells that shit to those fat idiots.


Cool. So your point about it being a golden rule (lol) to have a good product to sell was wrong. Excellent. We are making progress.

And they sell it by spending BILLIONS on marketing.

Of course it is. There is proof of that all around you every day. Most of what is sold is shit. And they spend a fortune making you think it is good and you want it.

Marketing is clever, eh?

Good advice, will try not to sink to their level.

B.Barnato join my ignore list.

Bet that lasts for ages.

Coke is nice. Not as nice as Seven Up, but that's personal preference. Can't drink either now, so academic for me.

McDonald's and Coke have very aggressive marketing and the products aren't good for anyone if eaten or drunk in excess. Still people like them.

However their point is about as irrelevant as most examples held up. The situation is online porn doesn't have the money to compete at that level. Not the marketing personal to compete at that level. So without that, whether any shit can be marketed successfully if "enough" money is spent. It's a pointless example.

I've seen movies where millions were spent making and marketing them. and walked out half way through. True they didn't refund my money. The point is Sony has millions to spend to market the film.

We have $1,000 and you get what you pay for. A lot of people throwing out free content to get millions of hits and thousands, if they're lucky of sales. Hits on the free stuff not on the sites paying to give it away for free. That's all we can afford. :(

So we have to maximise the hits on the site when they arrive, both the free site and the paysite. Generating hits is a first part of the job, converting those hits into surfers on the tour, then members, then retained members. Are the second, third and fourth part of the job. And the tough part.

The second, third and fourth part are where the selling starts. The marketing comes before in shaping and "display" of the product. The product is "selling" to the surfer.

Now as Barry says says do you sell the sizzle and the story?

Both need to be created. And in online porn in 2011 it's a tough job. With the limited budget we have it only makes it tougher.

So here's an idea for Cam sites, especially white label with no live chat available.

A lot of live chat sites look the same. Rows of girls pics, some online some not. Little selling, just laid out. The surfer doesn't know who to choose, who can chat to him about what he likes, his favorite fetish. They're just anonymous girls. So sell the girls story, right there on that page. Just a bit and sell more on her page. and let the right guys hit up the right girls. you need to know what the girls can chat about of course.

If nothing else it will look different and that will grab attention, which is the first part of selling.

For a plug in white label a little video of the girl. Might work if adapted. Just thinking aloud. Throwing out ideas.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

True, but made a pretty penny out of it. Of course it's a piece of shit anyone could of knocked up and the comments from the viewers prove how bad it is. I was ashamed to read them .

I should listen more to the people on the board about my shooting, they have it spot on. :(

You're not gonna dmca? Or did you god forbid sell them the video to use on the tubes?

He licenses his videos to tube site owners because he needs the money. That's been the case for a long time. You wouldn't think so from hearing him talk though...

Pretty much all common sense. But..

Which is something your content or the way you run your business hasn't done and why your advice is hardly taken seriously here in 2011.

While the point may be valid, in the car salesman world knowing about cars does NOT make you a better salesman, most likely a worse one when you get all wrapped up in arguing over a cars specs with a potential customer instead of selling them a car. You aren't selling cars because of how much you know about them. You move cars because you know how to move some fucking cars.

Selling and marketing are not actually related.

Lots of whores can sell their bodies - few can market them in a way that generates real cashflow. :2 cents:

Eg.; I have a small engine repair dude and a lawn care dude who sold me their services. They do a great fucking job. They can't market themselves, though.

If they COULD market themselves, this enitre continent would be bright green - and no tiller or riding mower would ever break down.

Marketing has nothing to do with selling. A completely different animal.

PenisPenis.

LOL. Have you ever read something you're saying about others and realized you're describing yourself to a T? It happens in at LEAST 1/2 of your posts. Troll magic.
How the fuck would you know?

What do you call marketing?

It's not loading free sites with tons of free porn. It's not SEO. In fact it's nothing an affiliate should be allowed to do.

Marketing is helping to shaping the product to meet customers and market demands, then improving and guiding the sellers work.

I've worked for companies with big marketing departments, staffed by professional marketing people. They never told us to give away so much of the product for free it killed sales.

You have to separate Selling, Marketing and advertising.

Most affiliates and the vast majority of surfers are on "Advertising" sites. sites with loads of adverts from sponsors. Many times the affiliate has no say in how the advert is compiled. If he did he would be having a small hand in the marketing part of the exercise.

Blogs can "market" a product. By shaping the text promoting the product.

Selling isn't laying out the goods and taking an order, that's supplying. Selling is convincing people your product fits their needs. With 1,000 thinking it won't. Then the obvious conclusion is we are very bad at supplying and if they want to link it, marketing as well.

You can call a cart horse a race horse, doesn't make it a race horse.

Here's another thought. There are millions of unemployed in major Western countries.

Why don't sites employ some of these in house to do the advertising grunt work of online porn promotion?

The entry level is low, the skills of the grunt work isn't high and the costs would be low.

Please no replies from sponsors saying "If we train them, they will leave and work for others."

Seems to me a sponsor could get the work done for minimum wage.

you don't understand the internet. please shut up already.

you are like a player piano salesman trying to lecture a rock club owner what kind of entertainment they should have.

As if even the average westerner especially the unemployed ones know how to sell anything online. You've been in porn over 30 years and can't even figure it out. Does that answer your question or am I just another idiot? I love you man. :1orglaugh

Is this true for many?

The film you need to see is "Supersize Me" , The health results of McDonald's and Coke are a Health disaster in the western world. For the first time life expectancy is failing.

the great internet porn marketing employment project eh?

i think the unemployed's time might be better spent inspecting porn program's offices to make sure there are enough bathrooms on each floor.

Your point on MacDonalds, Coke and marketing is still irrelevant when applied to porn.

These companies have millions to spend, online porn doesn't. End of debate. Porn sponsors who boast having paid out over $1 million to affiliates, spent it after the sales were made and the money was in their bank account.

Maybe these products have an attraction for the consumer, you can't see.

Still if the money wasn't the issue. The marketing is very professional, involves more than advertising and hasn't resulted in less people buying their product. Maybe because it wasn't 90% based on giving away free burgers and Coke.

I think the disagreement between what I think is marketing and what others think is one of job specifications. I must admit marketing my porn over the years was easy. I retained clients for decades and didn't need to keep constantly replacing them. However have worked with professional marketing people and it involved a lot more than just carrying or placing adverts.

Can a lot of what the "marketing people in online porn" be done by people who are unemployed on minimum wage? What parts of it are so skilled, how much is involved in that part and how much is simple grunt work?

No, that's product design. But thanks for trying!

True. It's amazing how much this thread has distracted me from working on affiliate stuff. Is that the sheer power of a long-winded Paul Markham thread? Damn! Add the fact that Damian is going to banter back and forth with Paul and *poof* another 30 minutes I could have been working, GONE.
:feels-hot

I have no point to make on marketing. I know nothing about it.

So why are you replying to my point about the health issues?

You do a very good job of showing that you no nothing about it too, and by contrast that Damian does know what he is talking about.

Marketing is a job of many function. And as 2 big companies have been mentioned lets look at their marketing and compare. Not the spend as that's already been done.

The big companies employ professional marketing people. Trained and experienced in the job. We don't do that very often.

They do customer research by going out and questioning people to understand their needs. We avoid real contact with members and surfers as much as possible. Though I hear a few did put up stands at the recent Berlin show. good move.

They do real market research. We follow what others do.

They engage advertising agencies to look into places and how to advertise. We don't.

They have departments researching the products, refining them, tasting them, getting them to the best they can be. for the price. We decide to shoot teen porn and go out and find the cheapest supplier possible with little idea how to guide him to make a decent product.

Product design, is something marketing departments are heavily involved in. To make sure they design the right product. Most in online porn don't have a clue what the word means. Many think product design in teen is anyone who looks under 22. And in MILF anyone who looks over 30.

In fact when it comes to product design, online porn is a complete failure most of the time. Met-Art :thumbsup. Average porn site :Oh crap

Most think it's getting amateur shot fuzzy and badly shot and lit and good porn is HD and in focus. :upsidedow

Talk for your self old man.

Goodbye.

There is a tendency to confuse what we do in online porn with what happens in other industries. Tap water and bottled water is a classic. Now we have people comparing the marketing of Coca Cola and MacDonalds with the marketing of online porn.

Just because a horse has 4 legs and a tail, it doesn't mean it can run like Red Rum or Arkle. We need to realise that.

In online porn selling often means giving away the product for free. Not selling. We think marketing often means giving away the product for free, that's not marketing.

This is the fundamental problem when selling porn. The order of importance given to each sector of the business. There are one or two exceptions, but this is the normal rule.

1. Marketing. Everything to do with driving traffic to a tour.

2. Design.

3. Billing.

4. CMS

5. Hosting.

6. Product.

On 1-5 most spend as much as required to get the best solution. On 5 most buy the cheapest. Even though Hosting is cheap, most want the best for their situation. Paysites normally want the best.

Forgive me if I missed something out. Probably just included it in another sector.

So the customer has twigged and now knows the odds are your type of content is on 10-50 Tubes free of charge. And on 100s of sites you have to fight with to get a sign up. Even then the member doesn't stay long, so you have to fight to replace him.

You have to have something worth buying to sell it well.

The truly sad thing is in these threads few can offer a better way. Yes they can point to examples that have no relevance. but rarely does anyone point to something they are doing that is better.

Here's this one again.

Please lots of replies from sponsors saying "If we train them, they will leave and work for others." Will give you the chance to reply.

You dropped this at the last show. Sorry I couldn't get it to you sooner!


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vfQtIi-FTu...n-29845448.jpg

omg...:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh... another completely useless thread...

Tuesday lulz's received :thumbsup

:1orglaugh

Okay that's enough, fuck you for wasting precious interwebs and killing people's brain cells.