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The Demon 10-18-2011 11:34 PM

There we go. More ownage from 2 well informed people should shut this retarded child up. Good read last two posts.:winkwink:

Robbie 10-18-2011 11:45 PM

What do you guys think about the idea of America going for it's own natural resources? Were those guys correct saying that the U.S. has 300 years of energy with oil and coal that the govt. is keeping us from being able to get?

And if so...could it be done without another Gulf Of Mexico type debacle? And since it's a global ecology and climate...does it really matter if human beings are drilling here or drilling in Saudi Arabia? Wouldn't we be better off with cheap fuel, 1.2 million high paying new oil jobs, and no more making countries that hate us get rich?

That's kind of the idea that really intrigued me.
I agree with the Republican candidates that if the economy fires back up...all these problems kinda go away. And what better to make the economy roar than that energy/job proposal (if it is true)?

I'm just curious if I'm the only one here who really thinks that could be a solution.
Again, I'm concerned about the environment too. But as I said earlier...we're all on the same planet, so doesn't it do just as much damage to our world for oil to spill in Iraq as it does to spill in the U.S.? And if that's true...then I'd rather have our country strong and prosperous instead of oil sheiks getting richer at our expense.

Joshua G 10-18-2011 11:50 PM

& further.

you have this blind hatred of republicans. You see no possibility one of them beats obama. But obamas base hates obama. the black caucus hates obama. civil libertarians hate obama. There is none of the anger-at-bush that filled his sails. Now that anger is blowing at obama. You think independents are going to visit the polls to vote for obama again simply out of fear of republicans? They will stay home if they dont like romney. I know you are afraid of romney. he's slick like clinton, will say anything to get elected. You know the mad vote will take the bait.

Robbie 10-18-2011 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CynBabes (Post 18500374)
Except FDR =P and Reagan was only about 2% better when he won re-election.

FDR: "Unemployment fell dramatically in Roosevelt's first term, from 25% when he took office to 14.3% in 1937"

If Obama had actually gotten unemployment to drop that dramatically...he would be a national hero.

Reagan: "The unemployment rate declined from 7.0 percent in 1980 to 5.4 percent in 1988. The inflation rate declined from 10.4 percent in 1980 to 4.2 percent in 1988"

Again...a president that brought it dramatically DOWN.

Your statement was a false insinuation. Obama is in trouble unless he does something to turn the country around. I don't think campaigning and raising 70 million in campaign donations while the country goes to hell is gonna sit too well with middle America.

FlexxAeon 10-18-2011 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18500470)
What do you guys think about the idea of America going for it's own natural resources? Were those guys correct saying that the U.S. has 300 years of energy with oil and coal that the govt. is keeping us from being able to get?

And if so...could it be done without another Gulf Of Mexico type debacle? And since it's a global ecology and climate...does it really matter if human beings are drilling here or drilling in Saudi Arabia? Wouldn't we be better off with cheap fuel, 1.2 million high paying new oil jobs, and no more making countries that hate us get rich?

That's kind of the idea that really intrigued me.
I agree with the Republican candidates that if the economy fires back up...all these problems kinda go away. And what better to make the economy roar than that energy/job proposal (if it is true)?

I'm just curious if I'm the only one here who really thinks that could be a solution.
Again, I'm concerned about the environment too. But as I said earlier...we're all on the same planet, so doesn't it do just as much damage to our world for oil to spill in Iraq as it does to spill in the U.S.? And if that's true...then I'd rather have our country strong and prosperous instead of oil sheiks getting richer at our expense.

it sounds good on the surface but the potential problem is.....well the true problem is the same thing that's wrong with pretty much everything in this country and that's greed.

i'm no tree hugger, but i'm afraid that once you let go of the reigns on "Drill Baby Drill" you'll have the same type of lobbying, loophole exploitation, raping, & pillaging that goes down in all the other sectors that have gone bust. yeah it's fucking up the planet, but if we're gonna fuck up our own soil, will it really be to the benefit of the average joe?

producing & using our own resources is fine by me, but i just don't trust government to do it the right way. and (here's where the fight starts lol) if the repubs are in charge of such dealings, i believe that they'll REALLY open up the floodgates of fuckdom for their fat cat friends as they've done in the past :winkwink: they say it's about jobs but it's more likely about $$$.... and those jobs will be going to illegal aliens for cents on the dollar before you know it......... in my opinion of course :upsidedow

Robbie 10-19-2011 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlexxAeon (Post 18500482)
just don't trust government to do it the right way. and (here's where the fight starts lol) if the repubs are in charge of such dealings, i believe that they'll REALLY open up the floodgates of fuckdom for their fat cat friends as they've done in the past :winkwink: they say it's about jobs but it's more likely about $$$.... and those jobs will be going to illegal aliens for cents on the dollar before you know it

I don't trust govt. to do anything right. lol

But you really think that "illegal aliens" would take those oil jobs? That hasn't happened down in the Gulf (where it would be a lot easier for Mexicans to do it) so why do you think it would happen in the mainland of the U.S.?

I'm no oil rigger...but as I understand it, it's a high paying job with a ton of benefits. Would turn all the people protesting into hard working, highly paid contributors to society...instead of angry and pissed. And it could turn the entire economy around with all those new high paying jobs giving 1.2 million people a lot more buying power.

At least that's what I'm thinking.

It's got to be better than throwing money at companies like Solyndra in a desperate attempt to force solar energy to take off.

And speaking of solar energy...I still say that I personally have THE plan to kickstart that: Instead of handing money to companies like Solyndra, how about HIRING them to cover the desert here in Nevada with solar panels and wind turbines. Energy problems SOLVED.

Tempest 10-19-2011 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18500470)
What do you guys think about the idea of America going for it's own natural resources? Were those guys correct saying that the U.S. has 300 years of energy with oil and coal that the govt. is keeping us from being able to get?

Yeah, there's lots of energy in the US... But why bother with it at this time?

The US imports more oil from Canada than any other country and there's lots more here to come... Especially once the pipeline gets built.. Course, they better hurry up because we're planning on building a pipeline to the coast so we can ship it off to China as well.

The Oil companies maximize their profits right now by leaving toxic landscapes in third world countries that have no regulations and dirt cheap labour.

The propaganda machine that's been ramping up over the last couple years for clean coal and overly burdensome government regulations isn't quite to the point where the masses completely believe oil is in truly short supply and so are willing to let the companies rape the land..

Getting at the energy in the US would probably be a bit more expensive than getting it elsewhere at this point due to having to actually run a clean ship and hire more expensive labor.

National Security would dictate that you suck all the oil out of all other countries first so that you're left with your own supply in the future... Plus you get to sell it at a premium at that point.

And of course they're all making billions of dollars by keeping it in limited supply so why fuck with that.

Energy independence is a great campaign tactic because everyone wants that. But none of them will actually get it done.

Tempest 10-19-2011 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18500478)
Reagan: "The unemployment rate declined from 7.0 percent in 1980 to 5.4 percent in 1988. The inflation rate declined from 10.4 percent in 1980 to 4.2 percent in 1988"

You have to look at the entirety of what Reagan did because at the end of the day, it was not a balanced, sound policy that benefited everyone. And of course it ended in a recession due to the growth of the deficit... Reaganomics was great for the GDP and big business, but it wasn't good for the country in the long run.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics

A more balanced approach is needed that takes out the high highs and low lows. Something that Germany seems to have gotten a handle on although they're not perfect either.

FlexxAeon 10-19-2011 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18500490)
I don't trust govt. to do anything right. lol

But you really think that "illegal aliens" would take those oil jobs? That hasn't happened down in the Gulf (where it would be a lot easier for Mexicans to do it) so why do you think it would happen in the mainland of the U.S.?

I'm no oil rigger...but as I understand it, it's a high paying job with a ton of benefits. Would turn all the people protesting into hard working, highly paid contributors to society...instead of angry and pissed. And it could turn the entire economy around with all those new high paying jobs giving 1.2 million people a lot more buying power.

At least that's what I'm thinking.

It's got to be better than throwing money at companies like Solyndra in a desperate attempt to force solar energy to take off.

And speaking of solar energy...I still say that I personally have THE plan to kickstart that: Instead of handing money to companies like Solyndra, how about HIRING them to cover the desert here in Nevada with solar panels and wind turbines. Energy problems SOLVED.

not necessarily the rigging jobs, but the surrounding jobs. example, if i needed a job, and then the domestic oil sector was opened up, i'm no rigger... but perhaps i could get a job driving a truck (with some training), or washing said trucks, or moving the boxes of soap to wash those trucks....etc. the trickle down jobs that require less responsibility and liability. the supposed "jobs americans won't do."

edit: i just realized both our avatars are "jamming" lol

nico-t 10-19-2011 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks (Post 18500233)
Everything Obama promised us was a lie.

So, even a principled moron looks pretty good right about now.

name 1 politician who wasn't full of shit.
It doesnt matter who the fuck is president.

devilspost 10-19-2011 05:54 AM

50 morons

nation-x 10-19-2011 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks (Post 18500233)
Everything Obama promised us was a lie.

So, even a principled moron looks pretty good right about now.

He has kept alot of those promises
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ises/obameter/

BFT3K 10-19-2011 07:44 AM

For those of you who watched last night's debate, and heard "answers" for ANY of America's problems, please look into the mirror when you say I am the partisan here. :upsidedow

Robbie 10-19-2011 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 18501083)
For those of you who watched last night's debate, and heard "answers" for ANY of America's problems, please look into the mirror when you say I am the partisan here. :upsidedow

I did. And I saw some things I agree with and some things I did not. Just like I do when I listen to Obama.
That's why I voted for Obama in 2008, and why I will probably vote for a Republican in 2012.

That's the difference I'm trying to point out to you. You are completely partisan. It wouldn't matter to you if a Republican came out with everything you believe in. You would call him names and never vote for him or even acknowledge the points he made.

And you won't acknowledge the huge mistake that Obama has made by not focusing on the economy and instead letting Reid & Pelosi pretty much screw the country.
Dude...come on. The Dems gained control of both houses in 2006.
Then they had Obama as President.

That was TOTAL control from 2008 to 2010. They should have passed the CORRECT health care in a week. They should have been able to pass some kind of jobs bill in the first month.

Instead they couldn't even pass a budget. And they took a bad situation and in my mind made it worse.

That's not the Republicans fault. That was pure Democratic Senate & Congress greed and corruption fighting over their pork barrel spending.

And no...I don't think it was ideology. I think it was Obama being a young and very inexperienced guy (not only in politics...but in any position of authority or business, etc.) and he respectfully deferred to the much older and experienced Reid & Pelosi.

They led him the wrong way. And he should have had much better advisors around him to tell him to stand up and LEAD and not follow those two.

Now it's time to pay the piper.

Here is my NON-partisan view: I voted for Obama. I wanted to believe all the things he said. And like the millions of independents who have abandoned him...I was sorely disappointed. And now I'm looking for anybody with STRONG leadership qualities.

I hoped that Obama would pull his shit together in the second two years like Bill Clinton did. But apparently he is no Clinton.
Instead he is out doing what he really loves: Giving speeches and campaigning.
Very disappointing to me.

And the crazy thing is folks like you who are just purely 100% political party oriented refuse to see what happened. Just like in 2010...2012 is going to be a slaughter. It didn't have to be.
As I said, Bill Clinton was super smart. And when he saw what happened in 1994, he turned himself and the country around. Obama sadly did not. He continued to let Reid & Pelosi "guide" him and that led to gridlock.

The Demon 10-19-2011 08:03 AM

You DO know that arguing with someone as stupid as bft3k is a fruitless endeavor and when he gets his ass kicked and leaves the thread, the discussion becomes logical and objective again, right?

Ronzo 10-19-2011 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 18500062)
If this is the best the right has, it's over.

Obama will eat these guys for lunch!

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

There may have been a couple of people on that stage that Obama could "out debate", but Newt Gingrich... who really is a brilliant guy... would mop up the floor with Obama. Obama would also not fare well against Romney who's a very polished speaker, nor would he do well against Jon Huntsman... who was not there last night.

The broader picture though is that Obama has absolutely nothing to run on... no success stories that people will feel he should be rewarded for... no reason at all to give him a second chance. His only strategy... and it's a shaky one... would be to launch very personal attacks against whoever the GOP sends against him.,, and that usually backfires against the attacker.

NetHorse 10-19-2011 08:05 AM

Funny listening to the mentally challenged who don't understand the first thing about policies, our economy or infrastructure call anyone on either side a moron. What a joke. :)

NetHorse 10-19-2011 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 18500214)

OBAMA 2012 - Vote For Me, I'm Not A Moron

Yes, because when the masses spoke and changed the majorities in the midterm elections it was because Obama was oh so convincing.

The sun is setting on your Messiah, let it go.

Robbie 10-19-2011 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 18501140)
You DO know that arguing with someone as stupid as bft3k is a fruitless endeavor and when he gets his ass kicked and leaves the thread, the discussion becomes logical and objective again, right?

Come on dude.

Remember the saying: "Never discuss religion or politics".

Just because BFT3K has strong political beliefs doesn't make him "stupid". It's just a discussion. His views are just as relevant as mine or yours. When you guys call each other names it's just childish and makes your viewpoint irrelevant in the conversation to people reading it.

I've met the guy. He isn't stupid at all. And he is 100% in this business. He obviously has life experiences that have led him to be a staunch Democrat. He's not alone. Just like there are millions of folks who are staunch Republicans.

My whole point is that I believe things would be better if people stopped playing party politics and started really looking at individual issues and individual candidates. And doing so with no pre-conceived notions.

BFT3K 10-19-2011 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18501130)
I did. And I saw some things I agree with and some things I did not. Just like I do when I listen to Obama.
That's why I voted for Obama in 2008, and why I will probably vote for a Republican in 2012.

That's the difference I'm trying to point out to you. You are completely partisan. It wouldn't matter to you if a Republican came out with everything you believe in. You would call him names and never vote for him or even acknowledge the points he made.

And you won't acknowledge the huge mistake that Obama has made by not focusing on the economy and instead letting Reid & Pelosi pretty much screw the country.
Dude...come on. The Dems gained control of both houses in 2006.
Then they had Obama as President.

That was TOTAL control from 2008 to 2010. They should have passed the CORRECT health care in a week. They should have been able to pass some kind of jobs bill in the first month.

Instead they couldn't even pass a budget. And they took a bad situation and in my mind made it worse.

That's not the Republicans fault. That was pure Democratic Senate & Congress greed and corruption fighting over their pork barrel spending.

And no...I don't think it was ideology. I think it was Obama being a young and very inexperienced guy (not only in politics...but in any position of authority or business, etc.) and he respectfully deferred to the much older and experienced Reid & Pelosi.

They led him the wrong way. And he should have had much better advisors around him to tell him to stand up and LEAD and not follow those two.

Now it's time to pay the piper.

Here is my NON-partisan view: I voted for Obama. I wanted to believe all the things he said. And like the millions of independents who have abandoned him...I was sorely disappointed. And now I'm looking for anybody with STRONG leadership qualities.

I hoped that Obama would pull his shit together in the second two years like Bill Clinton did. But apparently he is no Clinton.
Instead he is out doing what he really loves: Giving speeches and campaigning.
Very disappointing to me.

And the crazy thing is folks like you who are just purely 100% political party oriented refuse to see what happened. Just like in 2010...2012 is going to be a slaughter. It didn't have to be.
As I said, Bill Clinton was super smart. And when he saw what happened in 1994, he turned himself and the country around. Obama sadly did not. He continued to let Reid & Pelosi "guide" him and that led to gridlock.

Okay, that's all very nice. So you voted for Obama, gave him one term (actually just 3 years), and now you are are ready to throw in the towel. Cool.

He wasn't able to fix every problem in the country in 3 years (so far) while fighting against a Republican opposition who has done nothing but filibuster since day one, but okay, he is a giant failure now. Cool.

You think voting for another Republican - the party that is responsible for the lionshare of the troubles we're in - will "fix" the country's problems. Cool.

You think the GOP will bring everyone together in 2012? Cool.

You think the GOP will suddenly care about the 99% over the top 1%, as they've shown themselves to do, time and time again? Cool.

You think the GOP will not favor the healthcare insurance companies over the care of the people? Cool.

You think the GOP will balance the budget in an equal and fair way, as opposed to doing so on the backs of the poor and middle class? Cool.

You think the GOP will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire? Cool.

You think the GOP will be better than Obama, based upon their "great new ideas" that I have yet to hear? Cool.

Yeah, I am the partisan? Cool.

spazlabz 10-19-2011 08:13 AM

Robbie I can respect everything in the above post but I also consider it wrong. You say that the dems had a majority in both houses and Obama in the white house. On paper that is true but they did not have a super majority. They could not pass anything because the republicans simply stomped their feet, held their breath and cried filibuster on everything. The dems were also shackled by blue dogs that got the DNC's cash for their campaigns but NEVER voted with the party... pulling them to the right on every single vote.

The republicans were unanimous and moved as a block. They may have been the minority party but they wielded huge amounts of power and control. Add that to the fact that Obama had all the leadership qualities of a medicated infant he and the dems have been at the mercy of republican whims. Because of the gains the tea party made in the mid term the extreme on the right has been emboldened and now I think the leadership in the RNC might be seeing that their deal with the devil cannot give them long term success. It is generally considered to be common wisdom that to win the primaries the candidate will have to cater to the desires of the extreme right which will hurt them exponentially in the general campaign.

If Romney can make it through the primaries and get the nomination I think he stands a very good chance of toppling Obama I really do. But when I see people criticizing Obama for what he did or did not do and places no blame on the republican bullies who have refused to govern at all since 08 it gets me a bit riled up.

my apologies for long post

BFT3K 10-19-2011 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetHorse (Post 18501153)
Yes, because when the masses spoke and changed the majorities in the midterm elections it was because Obama was oh so convincing.

The sun is setting on your Messiah, let it go.

The GOP's midterm mantra was "jobs jobs jobs" - but then as soon as they got power back, it's all back to Planned Parenthood, gay marriage, union busting, redistricting, voter suppression, etc.

If the people who believed the GOP in 2010 want to believe in them again, well, I have nothing more to say...

The Demon 10-19-2011 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18501155)
Come on dude.

Remember the saying: "Never discuss religion or politics".

Just because BFT3K has strong political beliefs doesn't make him "stupid". It's just a discussion. His views are just as relevant as mine or yours. When you guys call each other names it's just childish and makes your viewpoint irrelevant in the conversation to people reading it.

I've met the guy. He isn't stupid at all. And he is 100% in this business. He obviously has life experiences that have led him to be a staunch Democrat. He's not alone. Just like there are millions of folks who are staunch Republicans.

My whole point is that I believe things would be better if people stopped playing party politics and started really looking at individual issues and individual candidates. And doing so with no pre-conceived notions.

I don't mind different political beliefs. I mind blatant stupidity which BFT3K is a master of. Guys like Kane and I share opposing views or Gonzo and I, but they can bring in an intellectual debate. Clinically retarded human beings like BFT3K do nothing but make random anti right wing threads all day and then start crying when nobody agrees with them. It's humorous really but the point is, if you can debate logically, you can be on opposite sides of the table. There's a reason I don't always agree with 12clicks too.


Also, as many of you have caught on to BFT3K's retarded game, he was claiming the GOP has no plans as a means of misdirection, while the fact of the matter is, the left is in the exact same boat. The only difference is, between the plans that do exist, the left is incompetent in every aspect.

Minte 10-19-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 18501172)
The GOP's midterm mantra was "jobs jobs jobs" - but then as soon as they got power back, it's all back to Planned Parenthood, gay marriage, union busting, redistricting, voter suppression, etc.

If the people who believed the GOP in 2010 want to believe in them again, well, I have nothing more to say...

What the republicans understand and the democrats don't want to believe is that out of control spending has damaged the confidence that business has in government. According to almost everyone there are hundreds of billions of dollars sitting in the accounts of business.

With this huge deficit,it's no surprise that savvy people are not going to invest that money when there is a real chance that these left wing policies are going to push us right into another recession. Having the credit rating lowered was a major blow. It hurt us locally and with every potential lender.

Until a leader steps forward and takes control of the deficit, the economy will simply stagnate.
Obama continues to demonstrate that he clearly is NOT the one that can do it.

FlexxAeon 10-19-2011 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte (Post 18501349)
What the republicans understand and the democrats don't want to believe is that out of control spending has damaged the confidence that business has in government. According to almost everyone there are hundreds of billions of dollars sitting in the accounts of business.

With this huge deficit,it's no surprise that savvy people are not going to invest that money when there is a real chance that these left wing policies are going to push us right into another recession. Having the credit rating lowered was a major blow. It hurt us locally and with every potential lender.

Until a leader steps forward and takes control of the deficit, the economy will simply stagnate.
Obama continues to demonstrate that he clearly is NOT the one that can do it.

repubs don't understand anything any more than the dems. they just speculate out of their ass like everyone else does.

all that money in business' accounts isn't sitting there simply because lack of government confidence. it's also because some don't want to spend it unless they can do so in the same manner that got us where we are today. capitalism means that you have the right to profit as much as possible. but unfortunately that means you have the right to do so even to the disadvantage of your own country and it's people.

the lack of leadership is not solely the fault of obama... it's the entire presidential system - president, house and senate - that is dropping the ball here because they can't come together. all this blaming obama for his "lack of leadership" is the biggest load of shit being shoveled. the system is set up so that everyone has to agree to move forward on something. repubs in the system are throwing a temper tantrum to gum up the works, and we all know why.

porno jew 10-19-2011 10:03 AM

Gingrich is a discredited kook with more skeletons in his closet than vincent price.

BFT3K 10-19-2011 10:28 AM

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/10...esident-obama/

Minte 10-19-2011 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 18501499)

The message came from activist (and traitor) Melissa Brookstone,

Minte 10-19-2011 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlexxAeon (Post 18501439)
repubs don't understand anything any more than the dems. they just speculate out of their ass like everyone else does.

all that money in business' accounts isn't sitting there simply because lack of government confidence. it's also because some don't want to spend it unless they can do so in the same manner that got us where we are today. capitalism means that you have the right to profit as much as possible. but unfortunately that means you have the right to do so even to the disadvantage of your own country and it's people.

the lack of leadership is not solely the fault of obama... it's the entire presidential system - president, house and senate - that is dropping the ball here because they can't come together. all this blaming obama for his "lack of leadership" is the biggest load of shit being shoveled. the system is set up so that everyone has to agree to move forward on something. repubs in the system are throwing a temper tantrum to gum up the works, and we all know why.

Is it that everyone who doesn't buy into the lefts philosophy is a racist?

FlexxAeon 10-19-2011 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte (Post 18501560)
Is it that everyone who doesn't buy into the lefts philosophy is a racist?

there's no "lefts philosophy" to be bought into. everything that comes from the obama camp is opposed regardless of what it is. even if it's middle of the road. no consideration or compromise. temper tantrum.

JP-pornshooter 10-19-2011 11:20 AM

I like Cain, his 999 plan is not bad at all, problem nobody is really savvy enough to understand this concept.
Cain has a lot of strong business experience behind him.
Romney also is doing well, he could be a strong candidate.
I have a lot of respect for Mormons, they have a work ethic out of this world.
Perry is too liberal to get past the GOP.

either case the election could look like this:
black vs mormom
black vs black

and i still think Obama has a decent chance for a second term.
everyone hve to be reminded he took over at the worst of times, Bush was so beaten by the enormous problems he even let Obama sit in on financial discussions way before he was in office..

healthcare and social security have been a bull nobody wanted to take by the horns since Reagan I think, this is why we have the deficit problems today, not Obama's doing imho.

Robbie 10-19-2011 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP-pornshooter (Post 18501610)
and i still think Obama has a decent chance for a second term.
everyone hve to be reminded he took over at the worst of times, Bush was so beaten by the enormous problems he even let Obama sit in on financial discussions way before he was in office..

healthcare and social security have been a bull nobody wanted to take by the horns since Reagan I think, this is why we have the deficit problems today, not Obama's doing imho.

He did take over at a bad, bad time. And he came in preaching that he was going to kick some ass and get this country back on track.

And then...nothing. He proceeded to listen to the wrong people. First thing he did was strike a behind closed doors deal with the big pharmacy companies and then produced a "health care" bill that was written by Reid and Pelosi's cronies.

Remember Pelosi telling us all that we need to "pass the bill, so we can read it" lol

You don't hear the people who are completely partisan to the Democratic party ever address that big pharmacy deal and subsequent Insurance Company Bailout called "health care".

Obama had the highest approval numbers I've ever seen when he came into office. He had both houses of Congress. The Republicans were on life support.

And he totally blew it.

So no, he wasn't President when it started. Bush was (and for 7 of the 8 years Bush was President our economy was roaring...too bad he started those fucking wars and ruined it).

But since Obama HAS been president...he hasn't shown that he can handle it.

When Reagan took office he walked into a bad situation. Many of y'all weren't alive then...but I was 18 years old. The country was in deep recession, Iran had our hostages, their were gas lines and people were only allowed to get gas on odd and even days according to their license plates.

He turned that shit around quickly.

Back when FDR took office...he came in at The Great Depression. MUCH WORSE than what Obama faced. In his first year in office he turned that shit around.

Obama has failed. And now he is out campaigning while people are jobless and losing their homes. There are protests on Wall Street and around the country.
Nothing to be proud of for this President. That's why he isn't campaigning on his ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

He's still campaigning against Republicans like it's 2007 and he's not yet the president...not FOR what he has done.

I think he needs a miracle to get re-elected. And I don't see one coming on the campaign trail.

Partisan folks say that the Republicans are blocking everything. But they leave out the fact that the Democrats are also blocking every Republican plan.

I say...VOTE THEM ALL OUT!

And whoever wins the Presidency in 2012? Vote his ass out in 2016 no matter what he does or doesn't do.

Don't let ANY of them stay in power more than one term if you want to clean up govt.

Matt 26z 10-19-2011 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks (Post 18500233)
Everything Obama promised us was a lie.

The third rail of politics for decades, healthcare reform, got done. You might not like the end result, but it got done and the door is now open to further tweak it.

uno 10-19-2011 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18501130)
I did. And I saw some things I agree with and some things I did not. Just like I do when I listen to Obama.
That's why I voted for Obama in 2008, and why I will probably vote for a Republican in 2012.

That's the difference I'm trying to point out to you. You are completely partisan. It wouldn't matter to you if a Republican came out with everything you believe in. You would call him names and never vote for him or even acknowledge the points he made.

And you won't acknowledge the huge mistake that Obama has made by not focusing on the economy and instead letting Reid & Pelosi pretty much screw the country.
Dude...come on. The Dems gained control of both houses in 2006.
Then they had Obama as President.

That was TOTAL control from 2008 to 2010. They should have passed the CORRECT health care in a week. They should have been able to pass some kind of jobs bill in the first month.

Instead they couldn't even pass a budget. And they took a bad situation and in my mind made it worse.

That's not the Republicans fault. That was pure Democratic Senate & Congress greed and corruption fighting over their pork barrel spending.

And no...I don't think it was ideology. I think it was Obama being a young and very inexperienced guy (not only in politics...but in any position of authority or business, etc.) and he respectfully deferred to the much older and experienced Reid & Pelosi.

They led him the wrong way. And he should have had much better advisors around him to tell him to stand up and LEAD and not follow those two.

Now it's time to pay the piper.

Here is my NON-partisan view: I voted for Obama. I wanted to believe all the things he said. And like the millions of independents who have abandoned him...I was sorely disappointed. And now I'm looking for anybody with STRONG leadership qualities.

I hoped that Obama would pull his shit together in the second two years like Bill Clinton did. But apparently he is no Clinton.
Instead he is out doing what he really loves: Giving speeches and campaigning.
Very disappointing to me.

And the crazy thing is folks like you who are just purely 100% political party oriented refuse to see what happened. Just like in 2010...2012 is going to be a slaughter. It didn't have to be.
As I said, Bill Clinton was super smart. And when he saw what happened in 1994, he turned himself and the country around. Obama sadly did not. He continued to let Reid & Pelosi "guide" him and that led to gridlock.

I think you are grossly overestimating the cohesiveness and balls of the democratic party as well as underestimating the destructive force that the republicans have been to any possible progress with the filibuster(minority veto).

uno 10-19-2011 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronzo (Post 18501142)
There may have been a couple of people on that stage that Obama could "out debate", but Newt Gingrich... who really is a brilliant guy... would mop up the floor with Obama. Obama would also not fare well against Romney who's a very polished speaker, nor would he do well against Jon Huntsman... who was not there last night.

The broader picture though is that Obama has absolutely nothing to run on... no success stories that people will feel he should be rewarded for... no reason at all to give him a second chance. His only strategy... and it's a shaky one... would be to launch very personal attacks against whoever the GOP sends against him.,, and that usually backfires against the attacker.

No success stories? You serious? If you want even a small slice, look at last year's lame duck congress and all that got passed.

http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

Minte 10-19-2011 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlexxAeon (Post 18501590)
there's no "lefts philosophy" to be bought into. everything that comes from the obama camp is opposed regardless of what it is. even if it's middle of the road. no consideration or compromise. temper tantrum.

Of course there is. Every social and fiscal policy that this administration has proposed comes from the left and/or the far left.

Obama set the table with his healthcare reform. Stuffing that garbage bill down the throats of the country and basically telling the republicans TOO BAD,we got the power. The supreme court will have to waste their time determining if it's even constitutional. A wide majority of the country is against it.

That was his defining moment. He pissed in the rights wheaties and they haven't forgotten.
Nor will they. And we will see in 12 months if the country has.

crockett 10-19-2011 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks (Post 18500233)
Everything Obama promised us was a lie.

So, even a principled moron looks pretty good right about now.

Don't be a moron yourself.. One of the biggest complaints the right wing had of Obama prior to his election was they thought he would be soft on the war on terror.

The fact is he has done a pretty damn outstanding job in regard to the so called war on terror. He's pulled the bulk of our troops out of Iraq and refocused on Afghanistan and went after the tangos into Pakistan. Just like he promised in his campaign.

The right wing wont say shit about that even though it was their "biggest" worry prior to his election. Obama took out bin laden and continues to get high priority tango kills. Going into Pakistan like Obama did is something Bush would have never done in a million years.

Bush was more worried about giving Pakistan a bunch of tax payers money so they could buy arms from American companies and "pretend" to be out allies, while fucking us in the back side.

Obama did what needed to be done , end of argument and the very fact the right wing ignores anything to do with the wars shows they know he has done good on his promise and would be foolish to claim otherwise.

Now his healthcare plan didn't go so well and IMO he caved far sooner than he should have.. So I give him a bad grade on that.

On the economy..sure he hasn't done as well as I would have liked and maybe he's done a bad job there. Yet what have the Republicans done to help him or this country? They have done nothing but fight anything Obama has wanted to do, so if you blame Obama for not preforming well on the economy then you must also blame the house & senate whom are controlled by Republicans.

Not to mention Republicans have filibustered Obama more times in 2 years than what has ever been done in the history of this country. So you want to blame Obama for a Republican Congress & Senate that will not work with a Democrat regardless of what it is. Get real, I'd say Republicans are to blame on the economy at this point as the president can only get things done if the house and senate work with him for the good of the country not whats good for the next election.

On the Banking issue I wasn't happy with it but not like Republicans would of done any different. Let's not forget George Bush Jr also gave the banks a bail out.

TheDoc 10-19-2011 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte (Post 18501804)
Of course there is. Every social and fiscal policy that this administration has proposed comes from the left and/or the far left.

Obama set the table with his healthcare reform. Stuffing that garbage bill down the throats of the country and basically telling the republicans TOO BAD,we got the power. The supreme court will have to waste their time determining if it's even constitutional. A wide majority of the country is against it.

That was his defining moment. He pissed in the rights wheaties and they haven't forgotten.
Nor will they. And we will see in 12 months if the country has.

Obama is a corporatist, he's very far from left, his policies and those of say Canada - are very different. Obamacare is a clear sign of his corporate ties. At that, it is the Republican healthcare plan, again... very far from left.

55 to 45 on appeal is not a wide majority. Before all the incorrect mass media hype about it, it had overwhelming support.

uno 10-19-2011 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlexxAeon (Post 18501590)
there's no "lefts philosophy" to be bought into. everything that comes from the obama camp is opposed regardless of what it is. even if it's middle of the road. no consideration or compromise. temper tantrum.

What's funny is a lot of things being proposed were republican ideas. There have been a bunch of videos of RR speaking compared side by side with Obama almost saying the same things verbatim.

uno 10-19-2011 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP-pornshooter (Post 18501610)
I like Cain, his 999 plan is not bad at all, problem nobody is really savvy enough to understand this concept.
Cain has a lot of strong business experience behind him.
Romney also is doing well, he could be a strong candidate.
I have a lot of respect for Mormons, they have a work ethic out of this world.
Perry is too liberal to get past the GOP.

either case the election could look like this:
black vs mormom
black vs black

and i still think Obama has a decent chance for a second term.
everyone hve to be reminded he took over at the worst of times, Bush was so beaten by the enormous problems he even let Obama sit in on financial discussions way before he was in office..

healthcare and social security have been a bull nobody wanted to take by the horns since Reagan I think, this is why we have the deficit problems today, not Obama's doing imho.

Cain is the latest fad. His numbers will be dropping soon, if not already. It will most likely be Romney. I really wish Pawlenty didn't drop out, they gave Huntsman more attention along with Johnson, and Christie entered the race(even tho i am no fan of Christie, he's at least funny.)


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