StickyGreen,

The difference between Zionists and both religious and ethnic Jews is clear to you, but not to most people. It will only be a small percentage of Zionists who really believe in the Protocols, a very small elite, most just want a homeland.

I'm not saying that it shouldn't be open for discussion, just that any kind of racial or religious hate has to be removed or pushed away from this debate, as it's just a small group behind the document. :2 cents:

many people say the jews died due to sanctions imposed on germany by the rest of the world but you cant say that these days or you are labeled anti-semite.

The Bankers needed an excuse to grab their own country, they needed the Holocaust and to make the most out of it; the Rockefeller's funded the Nazis :2 cents:

The Jewish people have been used and abused by the Bankers (as have many other races and nationalities)

I stopped watching at the "Protocols of Zion" ...

You can say that but you will be wrong and you will look stupid as it will show a total lack of historal knowledge.

For example the Polish Jews that were forced into the Warsaw Ghetto and then starved to death. The Germans themselves filmed this, so the evidence is from the Nazi horses mouth. At the time the Germans occupied all of Europe and there was no shortage of food.

Thank you for proving that you can be a hard leftist and opposed to bankers and capitalism without hating Jews and denying the holocaust. Even though I disagree with your entire philosophy at least you are not resorting to the cheap "blame the Jews" tactics that have been used for centuries in times of economic strife. Th irony is how easily people fall into the same traps. An ignorance of history means we are all doomed to repeat it. :disgust

WOW you really believe that dont you ???

And I suppose the annexing of the Sudatenland, followed by the invasion of Czechoslovakia, Poland, Holland, France and eventually Russia, all part of Stalins masterplan.

I said 'many people say'...not that I personally believe it. The point is that Britain imposed a blockade on Europe designed to prevent supplies reaching Germany through neutral states. Neutral states such as Spain were prevented from importing more than they needed for their own use, so as to prevent re-export to Germany.

Britain also undertook other measures against neutral countries, such as mining Norwegian territorial waters so as to deter the shipping of Swedish iron ore to Germany along the Norwegian coast.

It is true that Germany did not suffer the same food shortages that caused its Home Front to collapse during the First World War. But if you read the book, "Starvation Over Europe", you will understand why that was so. Germany simply satisfied its own food requirements from its own production and the production of the countries occupied by it, meaning that the burden of the 10% deficit in the total food supply of German-occupied Europe was diverted away from the German people and onto the peoples of the occupied countries.

Germany adopted a system of rationing the available food supply, ie the 90% of total requirements that could be produced within German-occupied Europe, based on the principle that other peoples would starve before the German people did. That principle in turn was derived from Germany's experience in the First World War, where its failure to ruthlessly exploit the territories it did occupy in Eastern Europe (in particular Ukraine from March to November 1918) resulted in starvation in German and more severely in its Austrian ally.

Not only did the food rationing system reserve available food supplies for the German people, so as to maintain its normal standard of nutrition, it also reserved food for population groups favoured by the German Government. The book "Starvation over Europe" shows that some peoples, eg the Danes and the Czechs, enjoyed a standard of nutrition equal to that of the German people and in some cases even better.

The other side of the coin was that less favoured groups received much lower rations. According to the book cited, the lowest rations were accorded to Jews and Greeks. It is understandable why Jews received the lowest ration, given their status as the most disliked people from the German Government's point of view, but it is hard to understand why the Greeks were equally disadvantaged. Perhaps that was a result of logisitical factors, and it is noteworthy that Germany cooperated with the Allies to supply food to the starving urban population of Greece.

Although a shortfall of 10% may not sound like much, it can be a matter of life and death when the burden of that shortfall is concentrated on a particular part of the population, ie if the available 90% is shared among, say, 97% of the total population of the blockaded area, giving it about 93% of its requirements, while the remaining 3% of the population receives nothing.

The crucial issue is that although theoretically Germany could import food from or through neutral countries such as Portugal, Spain, Turkey etc., Britain's command of the sea-approaches via the Atlantic and the Mediterranean meant that it could control imports by those neutral countries, reducing their ability to re-export to Germany.

Once Germany had occupied most of Europe, prior to the invasion of the Soviet Union, it became responsible for the feeding of that entire area, both itself, its allies, and the countries occupied by it. That is when the 10% food deficit of the European Continent (excluding the Soviet Union) really began to bite.

In short, one should not fantasise about large convoys of merchant ships arriving at Lisbon and Turkish ports loaded with food for Germany and its allies. That simply did not happen.

Much is made of the economic agreements between Germany and the Soviet Union of 1939, 1940 and 1941, which allowed Germany to import food and other raw materials, in particular oil, either from the Soviet Union itself or acquired by the Soviet Union from other countries for re-export to Germany.

However, it needs to be remembered that the Soviet union was not giving lend-lease aid to Germany. The three economic agreements were barter arrangements whereby the Soviet undertook to deliver fixed quantities of raw materials to Germany in exchange for Germany's delivery of fixed quantities of manufactured goods, including arms and other forms of war-production, to the Soviet Union.

It was very difficult for Germany to keep up with its deliveries, since they weakened Germany's own war-fighting capacity, and when they lagged the Soviet Union cut back its own deliveries in retaliation. For example, in the second half of 1940 Soviet deliveries were drastically cut back, on the excuse of Germany's tardiness with its deliveries, and they were not restored to their former level until the third economic agreement of early 1941. It is possible that the reason for the Soviet reduction of deliveries in 1940 was actually Stalin's shock at the unexpected sudden German victory in June of that year, and his resultant concern to weaken Germany.

The economic relationship between Germany and the Soviet Union prior to June 1941 was nothing like that between Britain and the United States, or Britian and its Commonwealth and Empire. Britain was never in a position where, in order to receive supplies of food and other raw materials, it had to divert a substantial part of its war production to a supplier that could well turn out to be hostile; it was always able to rely fully on its suppliers.

Arguing with revisionists is like arguing with doorknobs.

what i find crazy about world war two...is while they put up sanctions and blockades etc from England. The Bank of England was wiring Germany money for their war machine.
Who gave them that money? We all know PRescott Bush financed some of it, but what of the rest. I know who did, but id like to see others bring it out.

Why do Jews and Jewish sympathizers absolutely need the story to involve evil Nazis murdering everyone in cold blood? Why are alternative theories that still acknolege all of the deaths not allowed?

Read it and weep, idiot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

Covered up for decades and not a peep about this kind of thing at the Nuremberg trials. Stalin himself signed the order for this particular massacre. There was enough evidence to put Stalin on trial and execute him. But again, the goal was to pin it all on Germany, so all of this was swept under the rug by the allied countries for decades.


You are a child incapable of processing events from an alternative point of view while still arriving at the same ending. I do not question the 5-10 million figure. The specific events that brought the figure that high is what I question.

The blockade is well documented and it probably was responsible for more Jewish deaths than anything the Nazi's did directly. But people don't like to think about Jewish deaths as being the unintended consequences of a blockade. It feels so much better to believe evil Nazis did it all.

FYI: The gas you are referencing is Zyklon B, a pesticide actually used to clean living areas and fumigate clothing. Disease outbreaks were rampant at the internment camps and responsible for a great number of deaths. The Zyklon B was used to help bring the disease down. This gas is not ideal for human execution because it lingers in the air for a long time, preventing entry by those that remove the bodies. Yet eyewitness accounts state that Nazi soldiers entered the showers to remove bodies immediately after execution. This is not possible and these particular accounts are a fraud. This however does not mean that Nazi's didn't gas some amount of Jews.

At some point rogue soldiers probably tossed prisoners in with the clothing being gassed for their own sick amusement. These isolated incidents spawned myths of gassing to kill everyone. If you look at the history of wars, there is always an element of illegal actions by rogue soldiers.

you should look into revisionists who quit being so because they were forced by the data. them come back to this thread.

this thread was not complete until we had more "proof" pulled from youtube. thanks for that.

These are NOT theories of Jew being killed in cold blood these are facts. I have met eye witnesses, I have seen the camps, I have stood in the gas chambers. The murdered people Jews, Poles, gypsies, communists, Trade Unionists, the disabled and the mentally ill.


The Katyn Murders were not covered up for years but were well known even in communist circles. Yes, of course, Stalin should have been arrested, and so should Churchill and every American President, for their crimes in their respective colonies.

BUT the NAZI horror was something of exceptional nation, to kill people because of their race, not because what they believed.

The Jewish people were deliberately starved, shot, gased....It had nothing to do with the blockade.

The rubbish you write about Zyklon B, the Germans did not enter the gas chambers, they made prisoners do that work, they were later murdered.

The camps were liberated by British, American and Russian troops, all filmed and photographed what they saw, it is all there to be seen. Thousand survived to testify.

Anyone who denies these crimes has a reason, a racist hatred for people different from themselves,

agreed completely...


which is scary considering how jaded and manipulative documentaries have been going over the last 10 years or so...

documentaries by their nature ARE propaganda. even michael moore admits that. it's just amazing that there is a whole generation whose sole means of education is youtube documentaries. it really is a dark turning point for the culture.

worse is that they think they are using their critical faculties just because the doc says the opposite of mainstream media, but they never analyze the claims of these youtube docs, just swallow whatever claim they make wholesale.

really quite sad.

Once again. Thank you.

It's all a big misunderstanding ...

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...37554484_n.jpg