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Vendzilla 11-06-2011 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by signupdamnit (Post 18540431)
It's 9/10 times useless for an experienced webmaster to do that. And of those 1/10 times where it helps half of those will be little more than the rep applying a short term "reverse shave" which does nothing for you in the long run. Usually it's either a problem with the program or your traffic. A rep can't magically fix that stuff and these days they are usually sales people more so than experienced webmasters.

There might be a few good reps out there who are the exception and who can teach a few tricks to the average webmaster but those are few and far between. Especially those who would bother with a struggling small affiliate sending 200 uniques a day. More often than not you'll just get told to promote one of their other site instead or to put up some holiday promo banners or something like that.

Then in some cases where the program is known to be shady or recently turned shady and you've decided to keep sending traffic for whatever reason you might be better off staying under the radar so to speak. I'm sure I'm not the only one with a story or two about this.
I work with every affiliate that asks for help, I check accounts for those that need it but don't ask. I've built blogs, tgp's, mgp's, freesites, paysites, tubes, a social site and a few other kind of sites. I truely believe that if I have a bunch of newbies using what I show them, they prosper, they become the experienced webmaster who remembers who helped them when no one else would. Its just good business.

I love what I do.

Barry-xlovecam 11-06-2011 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinafaye (Post 18539830)
Take it from me, someone who has bought credits and tried a cam site as a user. the reason why conversions are low and not maximized because all these cam sites offering free chat forget to remind their affiliates that the unspoken rule among cam performers is NOT to reply to guests (people who dont have member accounts) on these free live chats.

Since the girls dont reply most of these potential buyers get lost as they are ignored. only one out of a 100 will realize hey i need to buy credit and then she will reply....
That is a legit problem and I think is has a lot do do with the models splitcamming into multiple sites. They are just looking to take the easier route of selling the sites' existing customers.

If they made a better effort to deal with sincere guests, and not the ones saying; "show me your tits BB," they would make more sales and more money. However, many of the models spend 20% to 50% of their time in "private" making money so they really don't give a shit ... Human nature -- everyone has their own satisfaction level.

Thanks for mentioning it I may have a possible solution -- we'll see (wood burning :1orglaugh).

BlackCrayon 11-06-2011 01:10 PM
all the big programs are being cookie stuffed by the tube dickheads and other blackhats.

2intense 11-06-2011 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 18537931)
logitech HD webcams for just over $40
hahahhaha lollllllll

Barry-xlovecam 11-06-2011 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 18540688)
all the big programs are being cookie stuffed by the tube dickheads and other blackhats.
I am fully aware of the cookie stuffing and we have recently addressed this problem;

1.) We use a "return visit cookie" but the referrer in the cookie is updated to the most recent referrer -- this makes cookie stuffing pointless (an exercise in futility).

2.) In addition, when that referred customer of an affiliate registers for a free account; his account is tied to your affiliate account for all future purchases, from all websites and white labels in our network.

Bottom line, we want our affiliates to get a fair shot at success ...

2intense 11-06-2011 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jscott (Post 18538806)
0:25,000 with webcams.com :(
same here .................

2intense 11-06-2011 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry-xlovecam (Post 18540705)
i am fully aware of the cookie stuffing and we have recently addressed this problem;

1.) we use a "return visit cookie" but the referrer in the cookie is updated to the most recent referrer -- this makes cookie stuffing pointless (an exercise in futility).

2.) in addition, when that referred customer of an affiliate registers for a free account; his account is tied to your affiliate account for all future purchases, from all websites and white labels in our network.

bottom line, we want our affiliates to get a fair shot at success ...
stop spammmmmmmmmming please

Barry-xlovecam 11-06-2011 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2intense (Post 18540732)
stop spammmmmmmmmming please
only an idiot would send 25,000 referrals somewhere and get no sales ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jscott View Post
0:25,000 with webcams.com
Quote: "same here ................."

The referrals must have been total crap?

No -- you don't like it ignore me

click

jscott 11-06-2011 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 18540751)
only an idiot would send 25,000 referrals somewhere and get no sales ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jscott View Post
0:25,000 with webcams.com
Quote: "same here ................."

The referrals must have been total crap?

No -- you don't like it ignore me

click
Hey spammer, suck a fat cock, I have too much traffic to watch every click with an eagle eye, like you and your shitty little xlovecam program

Paul Markham 11-06-2011 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldJeff (Post 18540076)
I fixed it for you.
The Internet has done little to change porn other than giving it away in vast quantities and turned buyers into freeloaders. It's just a way to deliver porn. the reason guys get a hard on today are the same reasons they got a hard on 10, 20, 30 years. It;s keyboard punchers who like the illusion they made and entirely different form of porn.

Ex Gf is just Readers Wives/Girlfriends. Was shooting a version of the 30 years ago. It was all I was capable of selling. It still sells today. The only difference is the camera.

Reality, please don't fool yourself. Was shooting reality before you guys knew of the Internet.

Live Chat was going on before the Internet. Phone companies were making millions a month doing it. Has no one seen the films where they show the girls in cubicles talking dirty to a guy on the phone? Now the Internet allows them to see the girl they chat with. How many girls talk live to the clients?

Live Chat. Go look at the video I shot of Sandra, look at the documentary Reggie shot of me. Look at www.Astral-blue.come/tour/ and see the them that runs through the site. Sandra is talking to me I'm 100% into a girl talking to me as we have sex, or she has sex or she has sex with herself. And adore talking to girls. If not happily married I would be a webcam chat client. I can also show you videos where I talk dirty to a girl on a phone, while she fucks herself or a friend in front of the camera.

I've also had decades of experience selling in many mediums.

With this knowledge I can say a girl looking off camera and looking bored isn't maximising on her sales. I don't need to drive traffic to a cam site, don't need to run a cam site To know the basic fact that. When selling, look at people and smile.

Those who are coming up with excuses are just accepting what they have as "good enough" I'm not in the mode. I'm always trying to improve things.

The proof is easy to get to.

Barry or Vendzilla can give me online access to one of their owned studio or just tell me which girls they have in these studios on their site. I will watch them. Then prepare a report and some instructions to improve her selling.

I've had decades of experience managing people, both porn and non porn. I've been on weeks or professional courses to improve my man management and sales methods.

It will cost them nothing. If they want to look at ways of improving their sales other than throwing more traffic at a site. Then I might be able to help. Or they can ignore me and carry on as they are, happy with the level and no desire to improve it.

helterskelter808 11-06-2011 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 18540679)
That is a legit problem and I think is has a lot do do with the models splitcamming into multiple sites.
I'm sure it's very convenient for cam sites to lay the blame models but the reality is they have been using splitcam for half a decade now. The real problem is that cam sites attract and accept useless affiiates who send boatloads of worthless traffic.

Quote:
The are just looking to take the easier route of selling the existing sites' customers.
And how do you imagine the existing site has customers if not because of the models getting them to sign up?

Quote:
If they made a better effort to deal with sincere guests, and not the ones saying; "show me your tits BB," they would make more sales and more money.
And if cam sites made any effort to kick out useless, non-performing affiliates, the model wouldn't have to deal with so many guests saying "show me your tits bb" and wouldn't feel like they're wasting their time talking to guests. That's how it used to be years ago.

Instead, cam sites make it harder for models, refuse to admit that fact, and then, in your case at least, complain that it's the model's fault because the model doesn't want to deal with the loser guests your loser affiliates send that are swamping the room.

Quote:
However, many of the models spend 20% to 50% of their time in "private" making money so they really don't give a shit
Why should they? If it's the model's job to do the pvts, put up with abusive time wasting guests and convert the traffic, and it's the affiliate's role to send that traffic, what exactly are you doing for your ~60% of what every model makes?

BTW, I noticed this in your rules for the models:

"NO FACE TO FACE MEETINGS with the customers are allowed"

Leaving aside how you imagine you could enforce such a rule, exactly what business is it of yours what the model does in her time off cam?

2intense 11-06-2011 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 18540751)
only an idiot would send 25,000 referrals somewhere and get no sales ...


click
not really nice,i am sure there are idiots like him who send 25.000 Uv to your site and make no sales.

helterskelter808 11-06-2011 02:11 PM
And, Barry, if you think splitcamming is the "legit problem", why are you trying to think of a "solution" when your own site doesn't even allow it?

Barry-xlovecam 11-06-2011 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jscott (Post 18540766)
Hey spammer, suck a fat cock, I have too much traffic to watch every click with an eagle eye, like you and your shitty little xlovecam program
stuff it.

But tell me where did you start sending your "25,000" referrals and start converting 1:500 or better i am sure everyone would like to know ...


Barry-xlovecam 11-06-2011 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helterskelter808 (Post 18540787)
And, Barry, if you think splitcamming is the "legit problem", why are you trying to think of a "solution" when your own site doesn't even allow it?
Unofficially, we do and have been for a year ...

Sometimes you are forced to go with the flow.

However, I know quite a few large studio operators, who are very successful BTW, who do not splitcam their models. They may place models at different websites but just one site at a time -- their philosophy is that when models pay the most attention to one site they have the highest success.

Bottom line is, for most models to succeed they need to interact with both customers as well as reasonable guests.

JohnRingo 11-06-2011 02:50 PM
While my freecams makes money off of socialism (freeloaders jacking off on the dime of the few who spend) I don't think that is a long term model for success. Before u know it, the freeloaders with screen capture are going to pepper the web with illegal videos of these girls masturbating.

I think we forget that the real money and long term success of cams comes from girls building relationships with guys who think that there is a chance someday to sleep with them. Cams are virtual strip clubs.

To this point, having tons of foreign models who obviously don't live in this country or girls stuffed in the closets of cam studios do not satisfy this requirement.

I wish there was a white label that would let u pick which models showed up on your site. This would provide variety between the white labels n help affiliates who know their traffic to really optimize their white label.

Barry-xlovecam 11-06-2011 03:18 PM
Quote:
... I wish there was a white label that would let u pick which models showed up on your site. This would provide variety between the white labels n help affiliates who know their traffic to really optimize their white label. ...
It's too complex for a White Label application but if you can program using our (or for that matter, any cam site) XML feed -- this can be done now.
Code:
grep (
name1,
name2,
...
name500 );
There are literally 1000's of active cam models so creating a list of your top 500 choices is no easy task.

Besides, there is a seat for every ass -- let the customer find the one he likes -- maybe he is a freak for Xtra-Large BBW how many of those will you choose?

More realistically will that customer want 18 yo cuties or well weathered 49 yo beauties?

helterskelter808 11-06-2011 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 18540827)
However, I know quite a few large studio operators, who are very successful BTW, who do not splitcam their models. They may place models at different websites but just one site at a time -- their philosophy is that when models pay the most attention to one site they have the highest success.
I think it depends on the site, and the profile of the model. Being on one site might help a model concentrate more if they have lots of worthwhile guests and regular pvts, but it also bores the model if the guests are poor or there aren't many. If only for that reason I think it's unfair and unreasonable to try and prevent a model working on more than one site.

I know performers who are not in studios who work on only one site by choice, but they're top performers. I don't believe they're top performers because they only work on one site though (they're top because they work hard, perform well and have a lot of regular guests), I believe they work on one site because they're top performers there.

They aren't interested in another site where they'd have to spend time working up from the bottom and/or believe that splitting their time might harm their position at the site they already do well at.

Quote:
Bottom line is, for most models to succeed they need to interact with both customers as well as reasonable guests.
True, and I don't believe any model is against that, plus chatting to guests relieves the boredom, livens up a room and lets a potential pvter see the personality of the model even if she is not talking to him. But too many useless, rude guests have given 'good' guests a bad name in the last few years. And if a guest wants to show he's not a time waster, he should sign up. That's what he's there for, after all, it's a cybersex site not a chatroom.

JohnRingo 11-06-2011 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 18540901)
It's too complex for a White Label application but if you can program using our (or for that matter, any cam site) XML feed -- this can be done now.
Code:
grep (
name1,
name2,
...
name500 );
There are literally 1000's of active cam models so creating a list of your top 500 choices is no easy task.

Besides, there is a seat for every ass -- let the customer find the one he likes -- maybe he is a freak for Xtra-Large BBW how many of those will you choose?

More realistically will that customer want 18 yo cuties or well weathered 49 yo beauties?
Can pretty much guarantee my babe traffic doesn't want BBWs.

As for being too hard, I blame laziness and Apathy. This option would benefit affiliates tremendously. Aren't they worth it?

Barry-xlovecam 11-06-2011 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helterskelter808
BTW, I noticed this in your rules for the models:

"NO FACE TO FACE MEETINGS with the customers are allowed"

Leaving aside how you imagine you could enforce such a rule, exactly what business is it of yours what the model does in her time off cam?
That goes back to when we were incorporated in France and it has to do with the French law; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostit...e#Legal_status

Of course it cant be enforced but it created an 'affirmative defense.' We would not care to have been some prosecutor's test case for Internet law 'virtual' brothel ...

We recently incorporated in Holland and are currently reviewing these rules (policies) vis-a-vis Model Rules.

One thing that is overlooked by most people not really familiar with the cam business is that this off site real meetings issue is one of the major causes of chargebacks -- the girl asked me " to help her out with some private time and she would meet with me when i came to Europe the following week" Also, there have been cases of bad publicity where a guy comes out and says "i spent $3,000 on this bitch at camsite.com and when I got to her country she would not meet with me."

Bottom line, apart from the legal reasons who the hell needs all the trouble from this?

Barry-xlovecam 11-06-2011 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRingo (Post 18540935)
Can pretty much guarantee my babe traffic doesn't want BBWs.

As for being too hard, I blame laziness and Apathy. This option would benefit affiliates tremendously. Aren't they worth it?

Choose Girls as the default in your white label that is possible.

One way cam site affiliates are successful is to code their own applications from the cam site's XML and RSS feeds ... It takes work to succeed ...

Some of our ACWM Promo Tools can be made model specific ... Live Webcam, Live Chat and the text links.

example:

Quote:
<iframe src="http://www.xlovecam.com/acwm/promo_chat_live.php?&cf=FFFFFF&ct=000000&cc=990000 &ca=FF3300&psm=myhottie&id_affilie=0000-b784d9e31su43kif3bf857bea7f&ids=1-a3965e4c033js97d6a1adbf0f385&chat_align=right&full =1&width=320&vol=100&id_pt=&set_lang=eng&trac=code " frameborder=0 width=650 height=300 name="xlove4229" id="xlove4229" style="overflow: hidden;" scrolling="no"></iframe>

helterskelter808 11-06-2011 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRingo (Post 18540858)
While my freecams makes money off of socialism (freeloaders jacking off on the dime of the few who spend) I don't think that is a long term model for success. Before u know it, the freeloaders with screen capture are going to pepper the web with illegal videos of these girls masturbating.
Videos of cam shows are more likely to have people seek out who the model is, so increase the likelyhood of more customers for that model. That's why cam sites use videos of models as promo material. Video and live/interactive is completely different.

The people who cough up monies at MFC aren't really doing it for what's on cam, they're just waving their cyber dick around and trying to one-up their 'rival' guests.

Like I said the other day, MFC is a virtual stripclub, whereas traditional 1-1 PVT cam sites are virtual prostitution - guys go to 'get laid' or even just talk to a girl they like.

Quote:
I think we forget that the real money and long term success of cams comes from girls building relationships with guys who think that there is a chance someday to sleep with them.
You're somewhat correct about this, but not really. First, many guests, perhaps even most, simply don't care and just want to get off, and don't even bother talking in pvt, they just want to get down to business.

With the guys who do 'want a relationship', and want and call the model their 'gf', most are not at all looking to actually meet the model. They have their own lives and family, and probably wouldn't have the nerve to anyway.

It's just a fantasy, escapism from their day to day life or partner, so it doesn't really matter where the model lives. In fact you could argue a guy would be more interested in an 'exotic' girl from Romania than a familiar girl from the next town over.

Even if they did want to meet, and the model wanted to meet them, which is unlikely in most cases, it's not as if it's any more difficult to fly from, say, New York to Bucharest than New York to Los Angeles.

helterskelter808 11-06-2011 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRingo (Post 18540935)
Can pretty much guarantee my babe traffic doesn't want BBWs.
And they're too dumb not to click on the BBW cams?

Quote:
As for being too hard, I blame laziness and Apathy.
On whose part? He just told you how to do it, didn't he?

JohnRingo 11-06-2011 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helterskelter808 (Post 18540970)
And they're too dumb not to click on the BBW cams?



On whose part? He just told you how to do it, didn't he?
Yes. An extra click can be death.

As for programming, I am busy creating original content driving traffic to individual pages.

I'm asking the cam site to provide a service for my white lable, something they are saying they provide.

Still waiting.

adultmobile 11-06-2011 04:51 PM
Overall a good thread :)
the main point it seems to be:

- sites with certain type and amount of traffic can do money in cams, but most others may have not the type and amount necessary.

- the conversion ratio is less important in cams then the total money made. Unlikely sites with fixed price per user. In fact, even if Paul Markham does not believe it, there are few guys spending thousands dollars alone and for long time (it is always cheaper a real meet then a cam chat, do some research, simply some guy feel guilty or is shy or afraid of virus or whatever and want cams only). So I would talk of total money made than ratio simply.

- most people don't understand why cams sell because they would not buy cams as basically it is not logic or worth (for normal people) to spend lots money in cams. This is why majority of people don't spend in cams, but the minority exists and spend enough.

I would also add that since the world wealth seems to be more and more concentrated to 1% of people where 99% are poor, in all countries, those 1% of people are the whales who spend a lot in cams and they will always exist. So cams suffer less from middle class destruction - esp. I would suggest to raise prices per minute :)

Barry-xlovecam 11-06-2011 04:58 PM
We establish a price range x? to y? -- the models set their price for private shows. There is a sort called "tariff" that translates to rate in French ... You can display the models in each price range -- see who is running a "sale" :1orglaugh

papill0n 11-06-2011 08:57 PM
paul markahm you are such a fucking joke you cant even see it

why would anyone have to prove jack shit to you ?

you do this all the time. let me explain something to you you fucking faggot cunt

you have no traffic

you have no sales

you call yourself an expert in selling

can you see the problem emerging here paul ?

youre an expert on selling who doesnt sell anything

Paul Markham 11-07-2011 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 18540428)
This is the single best piece of advice for ANY affiliate/salesperson, adult cam or otherwise

Folks that don't agree, or don't understand WHY, are the ones that are failing... :2 cents:
How many promoting porn sites would actually buy from any. This is a bigger problem. A lot of peope on this side of the fence think buying porn is foolish, probably would never of bought it anyway and just keyboard crunchers.
Quote:
On other notes, the performer who seems to not be looking directly into the camera may be looking into a different camera. Simultaneous performances on multiple networks or shooting the cam session as content, are not uncommon, and a second cam/PC/laptop to the side will give the "looking away" effect. Of course, sometimes they're just looking at a kid burping up his carrots...
All leads to less of a "hook" for the people viewing. Selling is a very highly skilled job. This industry doesn't do it, it dumps people onto a page and relies on luck to convert. Having a girl untrained or badly trained as your last point of closing a sale is a disaster.

Quote:
And on another note, "shaving" isn't required. Read your sponsor's terms and understand its business / marketing practices. If you are not making sales, it might be because every person on the planet has already been added into the system (free joins, APIs, cookies, etc), so you'll never likely earn that million dollar PPS. Try promoting an alternative site or program from the same sponsor, or offers from other sponsors.
This is another element. how many people who buy from a cam site have been been on one before. How many have never clicked on an advert, or pop up on a tube or piracy site? I would think few. Is this another benefit of adverting on piracy and Tube sites, get your cookie onto the users computer and cut out the affiliate?

Would cookies with a 24 hour life span cut this down?

Paul Markham 11-07-2011 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 18540468)
I work with every affiliate that asks for help, I check accounts for those that need it but don't ask. I've built blogs, tgp's, mgp's, freesites, paysites, tubes, a social site and a few other kind of sites. I truely believe that if I have a bunch of newbies using what I show them, they prosper, they become the experienced webmaster who remembers who helped them when no one else would. Its just good business.

I love what I do.
Your adverts on piracy sites. do they embed cookies onto the users computer, how long do these cookies last and do they over ride an affiliates cookie?

Paul Markham 11-07-2011 12:36 AM
[QUOTE=Barry-xlovecam;18540679That is a legit problem and I think is has a lot do do with the models splitcamming into multiple sites. They are just looking to take the easier route of selling the sites' existing customers.
[/QUOTE]

So you have webcam girls working for your company who are selling on different sites you own?

Or you're just the front end shop selling a product produced very cheaply in Eastern Europe, often by people with little porn or model management experience. That you have little control over.

$4 billion industry and you can't afford a better product. OK I understand the problem now. Thanks. :thumbsup

Paul Markham 11-07-2011 01:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helterskelter808 (Post 18540772)
I'm sure it's very convenient for cam sites to lay the blame models but the reality is they have been using splitcam for half a decade now. The real problem is that cam sites attract and accept useless affiiates who send boatloads of worthless traffic.
working with an affiliate or two will stick a plaster on an gaping would. working with the studio, management and models will solve the problem a lot better.

Quote:
And how do you imagine the existing site has customers if not because of the models getting them to sign up?
Untrained girls doing the best they can.

Quote:
And if cam sites made any effort to kick out useless, non-performing affiliates, the model wouldn't have to deal with so many guests saying "show me your tits bb" and wouldn't feel like they're wasting their time talking to guests. That's how it used to be years ago.
This business is 90% about dumping any traffic from anywhere onto a lousy product. I got flamed for cutting out 1 affiliate who was leeching my banners to send traffic elsewhere. Barry isn't the only one to blame, the business model s to blame.

Quote:
Why should they? If it's the model's job to do the pvts, put up with abusive time wasting guests and convert the traffic, and it's the affiliate's role to send that traffic, what exactly are you doing for your ~60% of what every model makes?
And how much of that 60% goes to affiliates?

Quote:
BTW, I noticed this in your rules for the models:

"NO FACE TO FACE MEETINGS with the customers are allowed"

Leaving aside how you imagine you could enforce such a rule, exactly what business is it of yours what the model does in her time off cam?
They can't enforce it on girls who work 100% for them, girls they just sell the studios product for they have no chance of enforcing it.

Paul Markham 11-07-2011 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adultmobile (Post 18541004)
- the conversion ratio is less important in cams then the total money made. Unlikely sites with fixed price per user. In fact, even if Paul Markham does not believe it, there are few guys spending thousands dollars alone and for long time (it is always cheaper a real meet then a cam chat, do some research, simply some guy feel guilty or is shy or afraid of virus or whatever and want cams only). So I would talk of total money made than ratio simply.

- most people don't understand why cams sell because they would not buy cams as basically it is not logic or worth (for normal people) to spend lots money in cams. This is why majority of people don't spend in cams, but the minority exists and spend enough.

I would also add that since the world wealth seems to be more and more concentrated to 1% of people where 99% are poor, in all countries, those 1% of people are the whales who spend a lot in cams and they will always exist. So cams suffer less from middle class destruction - esp. I would suggest to raise prices per minute :)
Contrary to the twaddle other put out regarding my knowledge of the cam business. I have a lot more knowledge about it than they do. Most of the sites selling cams do nothing but dump 1,000s of people on a bad product in the hope someone will buy.

I've been in many cam studios, met many of the big guys who thought my set up in Czech was ideal for me to run a cam studio, I invested in and they paid for nothing, spoken to countless models and know or knew many cam studios bosses.

The business is, from what I see, a selection of shops selling the product online via affiliates. These shops have little control, say or investment in the production or affiliates. They're merely middle men selling the product at the retail end. They don't have a lot of skill or experience in running a porn studio, little knowledge in managing porn models and no influence in how the selling or production is run.

Yes there maybe be a few at the top with their own 100% owned dedicated studios. The majority are little more than an affiliate program selling a cheap badly made product from Eastern Europe.

Why? Because there are so many people spending $1,000s on cam models? :1orglaugh

The rise in FB types sites is obvious. "Chat" with a real live girl in the US, who is saucy and sexy enough to flirt online. For Free. Or chat with a girl in Romania, where some of Barry's models are from, and pay for it?

A webcam site that would clean up would be based in the US, in cubicles that didn't look like shit houses and with girls who were really working the crowd. With that it could convert 1-500 of any male traffic. Because if I couldn't sell a sexy chat while a girl the viewer is likely to meet in the US to one in five hundred males. Porn would never be a business. And it must be possible with all the men spending $1,000 on webcams LOL

In fact a site with girls doing this to 100s, keeping their clothes on and paid for by advertising non adult products would clean up. Free to the viewer, girls paid per hour/per viewer and advertising paying for the lot. Fuck Tubes, the guys can watch a real girl who lives in their country and all for free. Takes Social Networking and Tubes to a new level.

Silly me thinking outside the box again. When will I learn just to copy every other broken idea? :1orglaugh

Roald 11-07-2011 05:08 AM
http://hostones.com/temp/Roald/paulmarkham.jpg

digitalfantasies 11-07-2011 06:26 AM
Paul, are you saying we should all visit FB and ask random girls to show their tits?

signupdamnit 11-07-2011 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2intense (Post 18540773)
not really nice,i am sure there are idiots like him who send 25.000 Uv to your site and make no sales.
Most of the guys doing that are probably the same ones you see hawking the larger webcams sponsors with $1,000 PPS. They post a webmaster ref link and follow it up with that little thumb up icon. If you're lucky they'll also post a statement like "I make lots of money with FUCKYOUWEOWNTHETUBESCASH." This is how the scheme usually works anyway. :1orglaugh

TheSquealer 11-07-2011 06:38 AM
The guy that had only brief and fleeting moments of marginal success ... is now living off the government and telling the entire adult industry they are doing it wrong.

Of course, he's not going to demonstrate that he knows what he's talking about

He's not going to give real world examples, backed by real data

He's not going to actually offer up any sort of proof at all

He's just going to pound his chest and call everyone stupid

Of course, his own sites are horrible and convert poorly - yet he knows great conversions and how to convert traffic

This is the join page from the guy who's telling you how to make money. All content misaligned. Random page elements all competing with each other. A banner for a button to join. A banner that looks confusingly similar to an ad for epoch.
http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com/tour2/join.php


This guy is so dumb on so many levels that it surely merits study in the medical field. I think his greatest accomplishment in life will ultimately be that he created a new form of stupid that was so profound, so deep that it warranted its own new name. Wouldn't surprise me if in 20 years kids were running around making fun of each other for being "a Markham" ... with all retards of the world breathing a collective sigh of relief, knowing their condition will never again be used to explain levels of stupidity that defy explanation.

TheMaster 11-07-2011 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmusch (Post 18537659)
All the current camsites are suffering from overexposure caused by the bazillion tube popunders.
first thing that makes sense to me, because even the conversion of the clicked traffic you send to most using their tools (banners, iframes, ...) sucks

+ it's just too expensive for the average person, maybe the crowd sourcing of private shows makes more sense (multiple people paying together for private)

DVTimes 11-07-2011 08:01 AM
1. we now have free cams.

2. Few new cutsomers. Put it this way, those who want to join a wecam site will have. Its a bit like poker sites. Most people who want to join a poker site will have. So if you prote the webcan site and say you get 10,000 of hits, but say 2000 are all ready mebers of the site and the others are not interested, the result is zerop sales. I would sugest that if a customer is happy with one webcam site they are unlikly to join others.

DVTimes 11-07-2011 08:03 AM
3. More people are now on mobile phones and ipods/ipads, and i would suspect webcan sites do not work on these devises.

DVTimes 11-07-2011 08:09 AM
4. Webcam sites are ugly. Most look the same as they did 10 years ago. I have not seen one that I would spend a moment on.

Often its just a grid of dull thumbnail pics.

You would think at very least you could see a grid of flash clips like on a tube site, so you can see the model at that point chatting and moving.

2intense 11-07-2011 08:45 AM
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh u on 1920...?shut the fuck up
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVTimes (Post 18542061)
3. More people are now on mobile phones and ipods/ipads, and i would suspect webcan sites do not work on these devises.

adultmobile 11-07-2011 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 18541515)
The rise in FB types sites is obvious. "Chat" with a real live girl in the US, who is saucy and sexy enough to flirt online. For Free. Or chat with a girl in Romania, where some of Barry's models are from, and pay for it?
I not understood all of your post.
I will reply knowing I will feed a troll, guys pardon me :)

About US versus east europe girls, this is an interesting topic. Look for the top models in the various sites and you see a majority is romania, ukraine, russia originated - altough some claim they're in USA and it looks like they are from there, but are not.
I would say for cam thing the far girl is ok in most cases - real meet not an option.

About real US girls showing "for free", wha tyou talk about? That's true for few over 35 fat ones, some show for free (in cam4 etc.). But not happens for 18-25 pretty ones. A few of these US girls you can find in myfreecams playing for free, BUT as long as their camscore = money they do is in amount of several thousands, or simply they not stay online. I know some of them and they say me they earn $10,000 to $30,000 a month, their cut, so I would not call it for free on their end. Note that most of MFC traffic is not from affiliate so the site have not to pay affiliate % for most of these money.

There is nothing such as pretty young girls (either US or east europe) who show naked and/or play for free - the difference between US and East Europe girls is just the minimum money they should make - but no one cute young girl even in poorest country of the world will show unless she thinks she do money with it. So be sure the cam sites where a (young pretty) girl shows free, are making money as the girl would not be there if no one paid her (as much as a porn "job") to be there online. This is different from a Tube site where content does not "go offline" if no one pay, it is a file not a girl who need a minimum $$ or have other job offers.

It is instead possible to have guys show cock in cam for free, but I am not into gay biz, we have girls only. Actually cam4 is more gay then straight as the free (really for no money) cock cam is easier to find. I also hear most cam programs have 40% or more biz from gay biz which I am not an expert of so I will not talk of.

We have a free live shows site tubecamgirl.com but at the momoent no one US model, simply as there is less tips then mfc and so not enough for US girls to be interested at. In the case it grows traffic = tips then even US girls may join, we hope so. Also note in cam4 some (young pretty) girl is there free getting low or no tips, but! Gettings biz off site by skype contacts (paying western union, paypal or else), what I mean is that free cam site have models = stay up only if the models (and so the site) also make money. A Tube site you "steal" content once and it stay up no matter you have sales or no.

I hope my post been useful for someone. Not necessarily for Paul Markham :)

digitalfantasies 11-07-2011 11:38 AM
wtf are webmasters thinking "those who want to join a wecam site will already have." That is probably the most stupid thing I have heard in a long time...

so basically you are saying, people who like porn are already member of some paysite, so you have no chance converting them?? People who like food probably already went out and bought some groceries, so they will never buy again??? Do you feel me???

anexsia 11-07-2011 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 18541911)
The guy that had only brief and fleeting moments of marginal success ... is now living off the government and telling the entire adult industry they are doing it wrong.

Of course, he's not going to demonstrate that he knows what he's talking about

He's not going to give real world examples, backed by real data

He's not going to actually offer up any sort of proof at all

He's just going to pound his chest and call everyone stupid

Of course, his own sites are horrible and convert poorly - yet he knows great conversions and how to convert traffic

This is the join page from the guy who's telling you how to make money. All content misaligned. Random page elements all competing with each other. A banner for a button to join. A banner that looks confusingly similar to an ad for epoch.
http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com/tour2/join.php


This guy is so dumb on so many levels that it surely merits study in the medical field. I think his greatest accomplishment in life will ultimately be that he created a new form of stupid that was so profound, so deep that it warranted its own new name. Wouldn't surprise me if in 20 years kids were running around making fun of each other for being "a Markham" ... with all retards of the world breathing a collective sigh of relief, knowing their condition will never again be used to explain levels of stupidity that defy explanation.
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

papill0n 11-07-2011 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVTimes (Post 18542073)
4. Webcam sites are ugly. Most look the same as they did 10 years ago. I have not seen one that I would spend a moment on.

Often its just a grid of dull thumbnail pics.

You would think at very least you could see a grid of flash clips like on a tube site, so you can see the model at that point chatting and moving.
:1orglaugh just wow

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVTimes (Post 18542061)
3. More people are now on mobile phones and ipods/ipads, and i would suspect webcan sites do not work on these devises.

spoken like paul markham. fucking clueless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVTimes (Post 18542059)
1. we now have free cams.

2. Few new cutsomers. Put it this way, those who want to join a wecam site will have. Its a bit like poker sites. Most people who want to join a poker site will have. So if you prote the webcan site and say you get 10,000 of hits, but say 2000 are all ready mebers of the site and the others are not interested, the result is zerop sales. I would sugest that if a customer is happy with one webcam site they are unlikly to join others.
you are an utter moron

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 18541911)
The guy that had only brief and fleeting moments of marginal success ... is now living off the government and telling the entire adult industry they are doing it wrong.

Of course, he's not going to demonstrate that he knows what he's talking about

He's not going to give real world examples, backed by real data

He's not going to actually offer up any sort of proof at all

He's just going to pound his chest and call everyone stupid

Of course, his own sites are horrible and convert poorly - yet he knows great conversions and how to convert traffic

This is the join page from the guy who's telling you how to make money. All content misaligned. Random page elements all competing with each other. A banner for a button to join. A banner that looks confusingly similar to an ad for epoch.
http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com/tour2/join.php


This guy is so dumb on so many levels that it surely merits study in the medical field. I think his greatest accomplishment in life will ultimately be that he created a new form of stupid that was so profound, so deep that it warranted its own new name. Wouldn't surprise me if in 20 years kids were running around making fun of each other for being "a Markham" ... with all retards of the world breathing a collective sigh of relief, knowing their condition will never again be used to explain levels of stupidity that defy explanation.
your summaries of paul are concise and accurate

adultmobile 11-07-2011 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalfantasies (Post 18542489)
wtf are webmasters thinking "those who want to join a wecam site will already have." That is probably the most stupid thing I have heard in a long time...

so basically you are saying, people who like porn are already member of some paysite, so you have no chance converting them?? People who like food probably already went out and bought some groceries, so they will never buy again??? Do you feel me???
Yes our cam models say they see the same members in many different cam sites so for sure who is in one cam site may want to be also in others rather than keep in one only. Of course who not like cam sites will be in no one, but who is in one may want to try them all or most.
There is even an issue the guys search same model in all cam sites to find in what one she is cheaper per minute - so as affiliate, to teach to guys there's yet another cam site cause the guy to sign to it i.e. "thanks I did not knew this one".
It may be true it is difficult to find one of those guys who never seen a livejasmin or streamate page, this give better chance to small sites - who may have otherwise the issue of having too few girls online however.

I know Paul will reply again.

JohnRingo 11-07-2011 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helterskelter808 (Post 18540969)
Videos of cam shows are more likely to have people seek out who the model is, so increase the likelyhood of more customers for that model. That's why cam sites use videos of models as promo material. Video and live/interactive is completely different.s.
That is such crap. I will show you my search traffic of guys looking for vids of these girls and NOT their cams. U think a guy is gonna pay Nikki Ferrari to squat on a bedpost when every tube site has video of it?

JohnRingo 11-07-2011 03:07 PM
Hey xlovecams, could your site load any slower?

helterskelter808 11-07-2011 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRingo (Post 18543035)
That is such crap. I will show you my search traffic of guys looking for vids of these girls and NOT their cams. U think a guy is gonna pay Nikki Ferrari to squat on a bedpost when every tube site has video of it?
Because Nikki Ferrari fucking a bedpost = the webcam business? What?

Here's a free tip: Freeloaders do not fucking matter. What they search for does not fucking matter. They are non-persons.

Video does not equal live/interactive. Carry on thinking that's crap if you like; seems you still don't understand what webcams are about - who works on them, what happens on them and who visits them and why - even after 3 pages of this thread.

I like you, and I like your avatar, but your 12 inch dick complex isn't helping you. If you think you can learn anything from your traffic, other than it sucks, you are delusional.

porno jew 11-07-2011 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helterskelter808 (Post 18543131)
Here's a free tip: Freeloaders do not fucking matter. What they search for does not fucking matter. They are non-persons.
what are biz models of the only porn sites in top 500 alexa, idiot.


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