It doesn't matter to me what failed - it failed. And this was like the third rocket launch in the past few months that's failed?

No, it doesn't.

(news link)

When they say "large scale conventional attack" they mean invasion of mother Russia.

Very typical for you. Should I continue any discussion after the statement above? PERIOD.

First of all, I am not Russian so I dont know why do you talk about knowing my own history. So yeah, I think you are DUMB.

Secondly.. What exactly did you just try to say retard? You blamed Russian army for not being able to kill a handful of Chechens and I said its the same as why Americans still chase such poorly armed terrorists in Afghanistan. The difference is, that Americans armed those terrorists 30 years ago, idiot.

So what is your point here??

As for you claiming that Chechcen terrorists is a myth created by Russian government, you are another stupid conspiracy theorist, just like those claiming the 9/11 was an inside job.

Here is a video describing your handful of Chechens and their tactics.

!!WARNING!! THIS VIDEO IS A BRUTAL THROAT-CUTTING SCENE - THIS GUY BELIEVES THOSE ARE A "HANDFUL" OF CHECHEN TERRORISTS - JUST A MYTH CREATED BY PUTIN.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=315_1313176550

I am sure that you will now claim those were actually hired and paid by Putin :321GFY

How about the school in Beslan or Dubrovka threatre in Moscow? Moscow metro bombings? All of these were inside jobs right?

The discussion is about the Russians military capability. Not about Afghanistan (although we could go into that and how they kicked the shit out of the Soviet Union with bolt action rifles and horses.. but i'll not go there)

The reference to Chechnya was simple. Russia threw their entire military at Chechnya for the first war and were forced to withdraw in defeat grant them independence. Simple as that. A band of poorly armed, poorly trained, poorly organized Chechen fighters pushed out the entire Russian military. That's all.

As for terrorism... i'll repeat everything again. You are bringing up shit that happened AFTER the second Chechen war. The premise for the second war was their so called attacks on neighbors, not "terrorism". It evolved into "terrorism" as that became the popular theme and as Chechens actually eventually started committing terrorist acts.

Finally, since you guys want ot keep bringing it up, the difference between Russian and Chechnya and the USA and Afghanistan is that the USA has not been defeated or pushed out of Afghanistan. The USA is rebuilding Afghanistan while dealing with small pockets of resistance that more often than not get crushed every time they come out to play.

No that is not all. You are stupid and thats the problem. Russians did not use the whole military, if you believe that 70 000 men are the whole russian military, you sir are retarded.

As for the band of poorly armed fighters.. the video I posted shows clearly those are not poorly armed guys. They were supported by Islamic countries and according to Wikipedia, there were up to 30 000 of them, including irregular fighters. Not a handful.

Russia did not succeed the first war as it became unpopular and caused many civillian casualities, not because they did not have the forces to do it! They could have easily wiped the whole Chechnya if they wanted. It was similiar to what USA did in Vietnam. But in this case, there were ethnic Russians in Chechnya so they also bombed their own people, own land.

I never said that terrorism caused the first war or second war, so you better learn to read. I just said that the terrorists and the Chechen "soldiers" were the same guys.

Claiming there were not terrorist actions during the firsts war?.. you are again wrong, just read the wikipedia:

Budyonnovsk hospital hostage crisis
The Budyonnovsk hospital hostage crisis took place from 14 June to 19 June 1995, when a group of 80 to 200 Chechen terrorists led by Shamil Basayev attacked the southern Russian city of Budyonnovsk

Kizlyar-Pervomayskoye hostage crisis
he Kizlyar-Pervomayskoye hostage crisis, known in Russia as the terrorist act in Kizlyar was a guerrilla raid conducted by Chechen separatists in January 1996 during the First Chechen War. It soon turned into a massive hostage crisis involving thousands of civilians.

Lol at the Afghanistan, they had weapons from USA to easily bring down Russian helicopters and once again, its proven that Americans have had troubles getting all the "terrorists on horses" killed after years of occupation.

Now thats all.

And these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger, not to mention the rest of the billions of dollars in arms and training we supplied the Afghan mujahideen militants.

Boy, you must be 18 years old or something. We poured millions of dollars into Afghan resistance to Soviets with Stingers and modern weaponry. You are so full of shit. Now they are fighting with those ak-47 and whats left over and we still can't get rid of they. And no-one will. British tried it, Soviets tried and we will leave the same way they did. Those people are born to fight. If there isn't a foreigner, they will fight each other.
You are an idiot. :2 cents:

Poorly trained my ass. Look at bios of chechen leaders. Most of them were top ranking generals in old Soviet Union and had well trained mercenaries as their assistants. Chechens were left with all military equipment soviets had in that region and had full supply of weapons. You don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about, kid. :2 cents:
Russians could have bombed the shit out of them with migs but "western democracies" would have gone apeshit about it.

Attention Idiots: US and Russia will never have a nuke party. The very simple fact is both sides know the other side has more than enough firepower to remove each others country completely from earth. For one to fire on the other is the equivalent of suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction

Stop talking nonsense. We have a party here.

yeah read this a couple of days ago

We only started actively aiding the Afghans VERY late in the war. Initially, it was a bunch of villagers mostly with bolt action rifles and horses, STILL keeping the Soviets at bay.

Soviets were fighting in Afghanistan for 9 years. Not a weekend.

That is true actually, many Chechens already had significant Afghan experience. They were not however a solid, well trained, well organized fighting force. They had weapons from the Soviet Union and they were also freely buying weapons (including tanks) from Russians.

Uhmm... yeah. Russian WAS bombing the shit out of them... leveling Grozny and other cities completely with artillery and fighter planes. I mean fuck man,... the entire capital city was razed to the ground.

The world wasn't going apeshit because the world has no interests in the region. I have many many friends who were in Chechnya on contracts in the first war. Russia had to pay experienced soldiers and mercenaries to fight because the majority of the existing army was totally inept, undisciplined and unmotivated to fight.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w-hOOOVUa6...25281%2529.jpg

http://eyeofthestorm.blogs.com/photo...ed/grozny1.jpg

http://www.mostdangerouscities.org/f.../08/grozny.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Bx61HrHduN...400/044_bw.jpg

WTF, moron? War started in 79 and in mid 79 Carter sent first aid to Afghans! Late in the war?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan

Idiot...

Sure you did. You probably had friends in Afghanistan war as well. You're so full of shit.

You are confusing aid in the form of food/medical aid/training by US and SAS with high tech weapons. They weren't sending them Stingers and advanced weapons until the very end and the Soviets expulsion quickly followed once they were aggressively downing helicopters and fighter planes with stingers.

I had many friends who were getting paid 400.00 - 600.00/mo or so during the first Chechen war to go fight. Whether I did or didn't or whether or not you think i'm full of shit, doesn't change the simple fact that Russia had to hire fighters to fight because their own troops were inept and apathetic.

You have some kind of birth defect where you can't read or you just fucking with me?

Oh sure. :1orglaugh

you guys realize that Russia and China have ZERO interest in attacking western countries right? It would be counter productive to both those countries.

Nothing more than dick measuring and arm flexing... just like this retarded thread....

Of course they don't. Neither do we.
What difference does it make if we have 7000 nukes and russian have 6999 ? All it takes is one to reach the ground. Only morons like squealer think it makes a difference.

Aid went first in the form of financial and medical aid. Actual arms (small arms and ammo) were sent years after the Soviet invasion. Actual open involvement without any plausibly deniability in the form of stingers (i.e. where there could be no denying where weapons came from) came at the very end.

Unlike you, i am not looking up shit on wikipedia to make a weak argument.

Third time is a charm... I hope.

You do know what "arms" means, right? You can't be THAT stupid? or can you?

I am well familiar with the history fucktard.

You aren't which is why you are playing semantics with wikipedia quotes and i'm not.

The USA did almost nothing for many years after the Soviets invaded. It began with spotty financial and medical aid, small amounts of small arms (insignificant) and graduated to training Mujahideen by SAS and US Special Forces and it was only in the very end of the war did significant funding and arms start going into Afghanistan by the US and at the end, it was the stingers that changed the war and pushed an already weary and mostly defeated Soviet military out.

This discussion happened within the context of Soviet military ability and how the Afghans were able to stop them. The US only played a significant role in the last year or two of conflict.

My point to you many times is that the Soviets were already bogged down and stalled well before the USA got ACTIVELY involved. My point to you was that the Soviets rolled to take over the nation and were instantly stalled, fighting people with bolt action rifles on horse back. Only later were they supplied with captured AKs/RPGs and ammo and only in small amounts.

The USA wasn't aiding the Mujahideen to help them defeat the Soviets. The USA was aiding the Mujahideen (for years with training, small soviet arms and medical/food) all just enough for years to keep the Soviets locked in a costly stalemate. That was the strategy. It was only the missiles in the end that provided the final blow. Nothing else.

The final Soviet defeat and its timing was about political timing, not tactical opportunity. It marked the beginning of the end of the Soviet Union and their loss of standing in the world as they continued to crumble financially, the berlin wall came down, Gorbechev was overthrown, lithuania et al started to revolt and demand independence etc etc etc etc.

Keep on playing stupid, dumbass. Lets see CIA insider thats quoted in wikipedia or some mother fucking moron on porn forum? Hmmm, thats a tough one there. Im done with you. Bye. :321GFY

Again, all that article mentions is financial aid and intelligence (from the CIA) - The only real substantial AID happened well into the war and it was only increased slowly over time. Weapons were done in small quantities and covertly, using captured Russian weapons - they didn't have access to western weapons until the very end.

So far, you've said absolutely nothing that's contradicted anything i've said and your only source of information is you desperately searching google for information so you can formulate some sort of argument because at the end of the day, you have absolutely no clue what went on.

The only serious aid in terms of real western weapons and active overt involvement came from Ronald Reagan. Not Carter and the stingers themselves were the final blow to the Soviets. Not anything else.

The world wasnt going apeshit cause there were like 10 other countries either in war or in a danger of possible war.

Yugoslavia
Iraq
Somalia
Rwanda
Chechnya
The fall of Soviet union and Communists and several new states forming in Europe

Those all were crazy events. Thats why no one gave a shit.[/QUOTE]

God damn, you stubborn retard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

How much longer are you going to play this game?

I just figured out one of your problems. You don't seem to realize Pakistan and Afghanistan are two different countries.

Selling weapons to Pakistan, including fighter planes (concessions for other CIA assistance, access to bases, borders etc), bribing them with financial AID which was well know to go unaccounted for and giving them money/medicine to deal with the massive refugee camps that spilled over their boarders etc etc etc is not the same as arming and training the Afghan Mujaheddin to confront the Soviet army.

Again, the only real direct substantial aid to Afghan Mujaheddin fighters (which happened progressively over a period of almost a decade) that gave them any sort of edge and only substantial aid enough to change things came very late in the war and in the very end, it was the decision to send Western Stingers that ended the war because by that time the Soviet Union was too weak, too broke and too broken to do anything about it.

But keep going. So far you're learning both history and geography it seems as well as how to use Wikipedia... big day for you!

Feeling nostalgic. Gonna watch The 9th Company again.

Shut up you backwards cow milking pussy.

Ok, will play with you one more time, single cell amoeba .


Operation Cyclone


Gust Avrakotos, the CIA's regional head - what a delusional fool. None of this ever happened. And he is so confused - Pakistan is not part of Afghanistan. All them idiot !

Once again... the support in terms of direct support to the Mujaheddin started slow and slowly increased over years. It wasn't immediate. It wasn't immediately substantial weapons stocks. They were just a scattered, untrained, unorganized force.

Further, the initial help to them was simply a tactic to prolong the Soviets involvement there and to make them suffer morally, politically and economically. None of the assistance in the first 3/4 of the war was intended to give them a significant edge.. it was designed to give them just enough to resist and cost the Soviets lives and money.

You are trying to make it sound like the west showed up on Day 2 of the invasion and caused the Afghan resistance to win. Nothing is further from the truth.

Thanks for playing.

Keep digging, Keep learning. Hope wikipedia doesn't ban your IP for so many hits and searches per minute trying to construct any kind of argument.
:1orglaugh

I find wikipedia far more reliable than your bullshit, kid. The support of Afghans started ahead of Soviet invasion, because U already knew it was about to happen. You have no argument, retard.
It says right there, 3.2 billion in first 6 years and 4.2 bilion in second 6 years. War ended in '89, so its not even half of 4.2. billion spent between 87 and 89. They actually spent more in first years of war than in last 3. Jesus kid, you are the dumbest fuck on this forum.

Operation Cyclone
Here's a another clueless a former CIA director and former president Carter's National Security Adviser writes in his book:

http://terrorism.about.com/b/2007/01...ve-thought.htm


But what the fuck do they know?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

You > Idiot. :1orglaugh

How does it feel to be complete idiot, TheSquealer?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Hello cap, i am a cap and i know how to radar "vareniki"!

Если с ангийским у тебя беда, то пиши по-русски. Тебя бедолагу хоть через translate.google.com можно будет понять. Ну не смешно уже, рельно. Галичина рулит?

Go fuck your horse redneck.

Засунь свое сраное ебло в свою жопу, пролетарское чмо!
Stick your fat eblo in your ass, proletarian schmuck!

Заебал с Галичиной, историкам виднее, а ты даже хуй не сосал в те годы.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_monument.jpg



Memorial monument in Oakville, Ontario. Below reads, "To Those Who Died For The Freedom Of Ukraine"

а тем временем...
http://top.rbc.ru/incidents/24/11/2011/626721.shtml

ебанутые cвидомые заебали нереально - отсосали у фашиков, теперь сосут даже не у пиндосов, а у подпиндосников, паходу им сам процесс нравится :) Када грозная эскадра древних укров на авиассущих челнах появится у берегов Сирии? Или Дядько Сэм не давал команды выебнуться?

Grozny - capitol of Chechnya, presend day:

http://rzeczyc.files.wordpress.com/2...rov_mosque.jpg

http://i050.radikal.ru/1106/cd/01f7c1177a2e.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/a-popravko/images/grozny.jpg

http://f3.foto.rambler.ru/original/4...1%80%D0%BA.jpg

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8...55a39da95c.jpg

http://s.glbimg.com/es/ge/f/original...echenia_ap.jpg

http://wsport.free.fr/images/Chechen...ov_stade/4.jpg

http://www.grozny-inform.ru/LoadedIm...Groznyiy_3.jpg

http://en.rian.ru/images/16108/71/161087113.jpg

http://www.mochaloff.ru/grozny/260.jpg

can you show me photos lшke this from Bagdad or Cabul of Tripoli?

Пpолетарскoе чмo этo кaк рaз ты. Eбaный нищебpoд - бeжeнeц.

А ты, значит сосал? Гордишься этим наверно.

More pics one "Those Who Died For The Freedom Of Ukraine" (not from Wikipedia, sorry):

http://www.from-ua.com/upload/1dc758fb693fc8c.jpg

http://demo-pro.ucoz.ru/_pu/4/54334308.jpg

http://www.nazireich.net/forum/files...100000_295.jpg

http://demo-pro.ucoz.ru/_pu/4/63784483.jpg

http://www.from-ua.com/upload/996828bc8924faf.jpg

http://ukrainian-news.ucoz.ua/Pfoto/...02/8477-12.jpg

http://ukrainian-news.ucoz.ua/Pfoto/...Sflag1-web.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wL_QfCweSK...600/8477-7.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1Uft-zglv9...0/00011s0g.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PeNhcms_7i...20/8477-13.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OTtBYVUeYs...a_plakat_2.gif

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jNcZh7Pnp0.../697984355.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Sg5HUqQZOV...600/8477-8.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EkRzpOdDRm...600/1639_5.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Vg3pAv_cCA...600/388067.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dCYNg4YQJM...0/IMG_3234.JPG

Историкам виднее, ага... So go fuck yourself :321GFY

Nice. You nailed it with that post. :thumbsup