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-   -   So how do we solve the problem of piracy? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1053579)

stocktrader23 01-15-2012 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottybuzz (Post 18690108)
I did not pay money to steam not because I thought hey, they are charging a nice fee, I couldn't find a damn key thats why I paid. Reasonable fee my ass, people don't like to pay a damn thing if they get it for free. (few exceptions - like delivery time of product)

Start making it hard to find movies online and I will start paying again
Most games on Steam can be easily pirated but they have still seen 100% growth year after year because they made the delivery method nice for the end user, run sales on games all the time and don't treat their customers like shit. When Steam has good sales on games thousands of people buy them just because the price is reasonable and don't even play them for months or years if at all. People don't mind spending money, they mind spending it on overpriced crap you can get anywhere from industries that have a history of shady shit all the way back to day one.

porno jew 01-15-2012 01:47 PM
games are a unique ecology and you can't compare them to other media markets.

mafia_man 01-15-2012 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfpint (Post 18690086)
You left out forums, torrents, social networking sites and mobile phones from that list
Not aware of any mass pirating on mobiles.

As for torrents they're not within the grasp of novice computer users and forums just facilitate lockers.

Never seen a lot of porn being shared on social networks either. Posting porn on Facebook gets your account banned.

gideongallery 01-15-2012 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topnotch, standup guy (Post 18690082)
Huh?

Some of us here are accustomed to communicating in the English language.

Want to try that again?

.
you tell people that letting this bill thou in the watered down form is the first step to getting the bullshit that they opposed getting slammed into the bill at a later dated.

They will simple protest until the bill get killed

or demand the abuse the bill lose your copyright clause.


If you object to that clause

they will simply ask you "how many totally innocent companies do you have a right to destroy before you suffer the same penalty you want to dish out"

borked 01-15-2012 02:08 PM
Prevention is always better than cure....

EukerVoorn 01-15-2012 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 18689788)
This all boils down to people using the creative works of others for their own personal gain. Either create your own "product" or pay for the authorized use of someone else's. Just because my property is in my front yard, my house or my website doesn't give you the right to help yourself to my efforts. Period..
And then when someone takes your property and you phone the police, they go after the thief and punish him and give you back your property (in the perfect situation). Then when someone steals your content on the internet and you phone the police, they don't have a clue to where to start, so they won't do anything at all. So the problem is at law enforcement not enforcing laws on the internet. There is no western country that has exceptions for the internet in its intelligent property laws.

Paul's idea to basically replace law enforcement by a citizen initiative won't work because the thieves will simply piss all over it and get away with it.

EukerVoorn 01-15-2012 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bristarrmodel (Post 18689820)
If products are reasonably priced piracy can be reduced but never deterred. Who the hell pays for 40 bucks for a porno dvd and why should it cost that much?
People looking for quality porn are still willing to pay $40 for a good DVD and distributing your porn on DVD only is a very good option at the moment because it will take much longer before it gets ripped and ends up on the internet. Because content thieves are unlikely to buy a DVD to rip it and they are also very lazy.

Half man, Half Amazing 01-15-2012 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafia_man (Post 18689696)
Imagine you download a torrent:
Forget the ads, forget LiveJasmin, AFF and the like. These people are directly profiting from you content. You'll never get a successful conviction against advertisers because they'll just claim they didn't know. But lockers have the files on their servers; it's much harder for them to deny it.
And NONE of them terminate repeat infringers.

1. File 512h subpoena for infringer's account
2. When that person uploads more stuff, file another 512h subpoena.
3. You now have proof they aren't terminating repeat infringers.
4. Sue them back to their third world shitholes.

This is what happened with Hotfile and why the site lost 80% of it's traffic. They were threatened with lawsuits for not terminating repeat infringers. Out of fear, Hotfile began implementing a policy of terminating repeat infringers. 1000's of uploaders lost their accounts. Those uploaders abandoned Hotfile in mass to Filesonic, etc.

The blueprint is sitting right there.

Paul Markham 01-15-2012 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherrylula (Post 18689674)
Right now, there are people selling bootleg disney dvds out of their trunk in Southern California. My sister in East LA always has the brand new releases on dvd she buys for like 5 bucks from some Mexican lady. You can get anything you want like that.

When I lived in LA, across the street was a grocery store and every single day there was a table outside with pirated movies for sale. ALL. DAY. LONG. lol

Now how to stop that? lol good luck. At least with porn they can't pirate it and sell it all over mainstream venues like swap meets. That is a good thing, adults only!!
I made bold the points that need to be emphasized. If you can't see the difference then here it is.

Let's say they gave away a truck load of DVDs every day to increase traffic into the swap meet. Then you might have a closer comparison. People have always sold pirated videos. Eastern Europe wash awash with them, but they were being sold. They cost money to duplicate and money to get them to the market.

Online piracy costs what? It's so low it's profitable to just sell the traffic off the piracy sites. This has become the business of many here. Or can the traffic sellers tell us otherwise?

halfpint 01-15-2012 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafia_man (Post 18690157)
Not aware of any mass pirating on mobiles.

As for torrents they're not within the grasp of novice computer users and forums just facilitate lockers.

Never seen a lot of porn being shared on social networks either. Posting porn on Facebook gets your account banned.
Not much porn on mobiles atm but I have seen it being done and then sent to other friends, This will only get bigger in time just like the mainstream videos and music they rip and use for ringtones, very popular to rip music from youtube to mobiles and very easily done atm. Torrents are used by novices very much, I found out that even my own daughter was using torrents some years ago as were most of her freinds at school, thankfully she has grown up and no longer uses them anymore, as for social networks the users use them to spread urls by emails and chat.

Even after talking to both my kids about downloading pirated music and videos they still did not seem to grasp why it was wrong, its a culture thing all thier friends do it too, they used to share music with friends on thier phones at school and its going to be hard to break. I can happily say that both of my kids have both left school and grown up and no longer download pirated music. But I wouldent be suprised if my son and all of his mates do the same thing with porn given the chance even though they know its wrong.

EukerVoorn 01-15-2012 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half man, Half Amazing (Post 18690223)
And NONE of them terminate repeat infringers.

1. File 512h subpoena for infringer's account
2. When that person uploads more stuff, file another 512h subpoena.
3. You now have proof they aren't terminating repeat infringers.
4. Sue them back to their third world shitholes.

This is what happened with Hotfile and why the site lost 80% of it's traffic. They were threatened with lawsuits for not terminating repeat infringers. Out of fear, Hotfile began implementing a policy of terminating repeat infringers. 1000's of uploaders lost their accounts. Those uploaders abandoned Hotfile in mass to Filesonic, etc.

The blueprint is sitting right there.
http://rip-productions.net: "DMCA Protection: one-click re-upload of taken down content"

Half man, Half Amazing 01-15-2012 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EukerVoorn (Post 18690249)
http://rip-productions.net: "DMCA Protection: one-click re-upload of taken down content"
Don't worry...the second I got the email from Rip I immediately got that in front of some people with a good track record of taking guys like this down.

Putting that statement on their site and in their email blast is about the dumbest thing I've seen cashwhores thieves do all year.

raymor 01-15-2012 06:22 PM
Does this make any sense at all to anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 18689914)
"artistic works" would be copyrighted to give you a monetary incentive to keep releasing them to the public but they never gave a shit about you making money from your ideas. Copyright was for the greater good of society, not your pocketbook.
I'm reading "copyright is so professionals can be paid for their work, not so that they can be paid for their work". Huh?

stocktrader23 01-15-2012 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymor (Post 18690543)
Does this make any sense at all to anyone?



I'm reading "copyright is so professionals can be paid for their work, not so that they can be paid for their work". Huh?
I was quite clear in what I wrote. Copyright protection did not come about because they thought "Wow, these people need to get rich on their ideas!" it came about to ensure that more works would be released with cash incentives being a trade off they had to accept. Most here talk as if copyright was intended to grant them lifetime ownership of their content because it was theirs and they deserve it but that is not what was originally intended. The reason that attitude is so prevalent is the influence of corporations on our current laws.

notime 01-15-2012 08:52 PM
Besides a small group that refuses to pay period, those who cannot afford it or are clueless with a PC, Surfers usually only steal what is too expensive, can not be found legit or is consumer unfriendly when available legit.

pornmasta 01-15-2012 08:57 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demoti...1231560427.jpg

Redrob 01-15-2012 09:11 PM
We could just outlaw UNMODERATED, user-generated content. Everybody should be responsible for what they have on their websites in my opinion. God knows, with 2257, adult sites should be in total control of their content.

Just my opinion...

papill0n 01-15-2012 10:05 PM
you cant even solve your incontinence problem let alone online piracy you fucking joke

Paul Markham 01-16-2012 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 18689835)
Say what you want about Paul being outdated. The one thing for sure is he isn't is a thief like some in this industry. If being outdated means being honest then I'm outdated as well.

.
True. I come from a time when a large proportion of this industry were honest. People didn't argue that stealing should be ignored, when they thought the way forward was to create a great product and pay a good price for it. When it took some skill or money and sometimes both to get into the porn industry.

Times change. Ethics and morals don't. Until you're the one who suffers.

Paul Markham 01-16-2012 01:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 18689914)
You were asked "If products are reasonably priced piracy can be reduced but never deterred. Who the hell pays for 40 bucks for a porno dvd and why should it cost that much?"

A reasonable question because places like STEAM have shown that if you price your digital goods at a level that your consumers consider acceptable and provide a good user experience then piracy is mostly a non issue.
The problem with bringing down the price to the iTunes level is it will hit you the hardest.

Because traffic is the most expensive part of the online porn industry. So instead of paying $30 a month. Users will be charged 50 cents or $1 a day on a days membership. To get down to that price it means traffic costs will have to be slashed.

Then to get the "good user experience" will take content budgets to rise. It's simply not possible or practical to think good content can be produced for the price this industry is prepared to pay. $5,000 for a BG scene, $2,000 for a 2 girl and $1,000 for a solo girl are probably the starting prices. This is never going to happen unless the industry goes back to non exclusive, when we earned that from a scene on store sales alone easily.
Quote:
$30 per month porn is Rolex pricing in the internet world. Not for all, just most.
How much do webcam charge a minute?

Quote:
Oh this argument again? Nobody here is saying that anyone should be able to steal your shit, just that you can't fucking stop it. Can you get that through your head? You can't fucking stop this shit, you aren't going to, you are going to have to adjust, die or float along at a fraction of your former glory because you are too bitter and stubborn to do anything about it.
No you can't stop it, what you can do is severely limit it. If advertisers and sellers of ads, were liable to get dragged into court and sued for damages. The ads would dry up. Without funding, the piracy sites have nothing to fund them. If a piracy forum finds the file lockers gone, the traffic is gone and advertising pointless. Some may switch to a legal forum, most will die.

Quote:
I sure do, too bad most of the internet does not give a fuck about L-Pink from GFY. Now what are you going to do? The law is not going to save you, ever.
True. For L-pink, me and you. Tubes with legal content will pick up the traffic, maybe they will sell it to you to sell on. Maybe they will sell direct. Change is coming adapt or die.

Quote:
Also, you're all self righteous about how you would never pirate anything so obviously you must be an upstanding moral citizen that doesn't do anything one would find questionable. You know, like produce or sell porn?
Is being an upstanding moral person bad? Producing and selling porn, which is the portraying of a very natural act isn't bad.

Quote:
The fact of the matter is that piracy can't be stopped. When someone tells you that and you jump in with all the reasons you are against it *again* it makes you look retarded. We know you are against it, almost every fucking person here would be happy if magically stopped tomorrow but it's not going to happen.
Not going to happen?????? You're dreaming. There's too much big money behind it for it not to happen. you hope its not goig to happen.

Quote:
And one more tidbit just for the record. Copyright laws were intended to keep the flow of information going. They were not created with the purpose of making sure you get paid for every video of a girl being tag teamed by 5 guys that you "own". They begrudgingly accepted the fact that "artistic works" would be copyrighted to give you a monetary incentive to keep releasing them to the public but they never gave a shit about you making money from your ideas. Copyright was for the greater good of society, not your pocketbook. The only reason that all of the arguments fall onto protecting your income streams is that corporations have a lopsided influence on our laws.
Copyright laws protect the creator so he can carry on creating, by producing a profit.

It's amazing that in an industry that used to be a lot about selling recorded porn so many are in favor of piracy now. :upsidedow

Paul Markham 01-16-2012 05:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfpint (Post 18689948)
Blame google and other indexing search engines for the fast growth of piracy, The very people smut peddlars use to make money from. You take one down another pops ups or the technology for file sharing changes.. and to compare it to child abuse films is way off. Most prob 99% of people know that its wrong to abuse children, its a totaly different story to piracy, You talk to most youngsters and they have no problem sharing files, Society does not tell them that it is wrong to file share like it is to abuse children, Its going to take a very long time, if ever for society to do the same thing about file sharing.
Piracy goes much deeper than Google and other Search Engines. It's cultural, it's easy, no penalty usually. Even when someone is caught there's a lot of sympathy for them. Now we have the White House backing out of the law. Will another one replace it or have they found it's a vote loser?

This industry has changed 180 degree in the last 10 years. It's gone from what was a fairly easy way to make a lot of money on all levels. From models, to agents, to shooters, publishers, distributors and shops, cable, phones, hotels, etc. The retail end of the business was worth many billions. No one compares what we make today with what was made in the retail, maybe for fear or maybe for ignorance.

Today it's an industry of driving traffic by any means. For dimes. Same goes for music, films, and every other product pirated online. Until that is changed, piracy will continue. Giving 10,000 people a link to a free piece of content for one to buy from an advert is hurting all businesses. Except those who profit from the free products or the people selling traffic.

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

pornguy 01-16-2012 05:38 AM
Pretty simple. Pull the domains after X number of DMCA's that prove to be correct.

Loki 01-16-2012 06:36 AM
The bottom line is we will always have some sort of piracy to contend with, the general 'public' consenses about the internet is that it was created for "freely exchange information" and over the years the word "information" has morphed to music, movies, tv, books, apps, games, ringtones and of course porn.

In our TV shows and movies 'pirate' sites are mentioned, my own cable/internet provider use to broadcast a 30 min "ScreenSavers" custom episode enticing customers to switch to high-speed internet STATING...

"You can download full length movies in just about 30 mins from here, here and here"
"Download a full CD in as little as 10 mins from here, here and here"
"like the TV Show ___________? you can dowload an entire season in just few hours"

This had NOTHING TO DO with NetFlix (who did NOT offer streaming back then) or iTunes, or any other "LEGAL" methods, they were straight up talking AND NAMING places like Napster (pre-revamp) Kaza & Lime... wire or ware? I forget lol

Talk to kids & teens today and you see that to them downloading is a "Right"

But then lets turn the mirror back to our own industry.....

Did a good number of the very first paysites NOT start from people scanning (and selling on cd's) content from adult magazines that they had NO RIGHTS to use on their own?

Is there not COUNTLESS paysites in the toon market using pirated content? coughcoughhentaibosscoughcough coughcoughseriouspartnerscoughcough coughcoughadultempirecoughcough and even entire content studios who've been caught selling entire collections of 'stolen' toon content (don't remember names off the top of my head sorry)

Then we have the tube sites, ex-gf-sites, etc etc, seems to me we need to clean up our own backyard before we can really bitch or fight about the neighbors back yard.

Last but not least, want to fight piracy on your own sites? offer stuff that can not be pirated, offer something that can't be downloaded.

USER INTERACTION ;)

-Loki-

PS... SEE SIG!

mafia_man 01-16-2012 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pornguy (Post 18690975)
Pretty simple. Pull the domains after X number of DMCA's that prove to be correct.
Then people will just start using third party DNS.

I agree with the price point notime made. Most users don't want a sub because they only want 1 clip. Give them a way to buy a single clip.

Paul Markham 01-16-2012 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crucifissio (Post 18690089)
just take away the popular places and you have solved most of the problem.
The lesser popular will soon become the more popular and that's how it will keep going. Like shooting ducks at the fun fair, new ones will always pop up. To cut piracy you have to attack the funding. Traffic brokers, advertisers, billers, etc.

stocktrader23 01-16-2012 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki (Post 18691055)
The bottom line is we will always have some sort of piracy to contend with, the general 'public' consenses about the internet is that it was created for "freely exchange information" and over the years the word "information" has morphed to music, movies, tv, books, apps, games, ringtones and of course porn.

In our TV shows and movies 'pirate' sites are mentioned, my own cable/internet provider use to broadcast a 30 min "ScreenSavers" custom episode enticing customers to switch to high-speed internet STATING...

"You can download full length movies in just about 30 mins from here, here and here"
"Download a full CD in as little as 10 mins from here, here and here"
"like the TV Show ___________? you can dowload an entire season in just few hours"

This had NOTHING TO DO with NetFlix (who did NOT offer streaming back then) or iTunes, or any other "LEGAL" methods, they were straight up talking AND NAMING places like Napster (pre-revamp) Kaza & Lime... wire or ware? I forget lol

Talk to kids & teens today and you see that to them downloading is a "Right"

But then lets turn the mirror back to our own industry.....

Did a good number of the very first paysites NOT start from people scanning (and selling on cd's) content from adult magazines that they had NO RIGHTS to use on their own?

Is there not COUNTLESS paysites in the toon market using pirated content? coughcoughhentaibosscoughcough coughcoughseriouspartnerscoughcough coughcoughadultempirecoughcough and even entire content studios who've been caught selling entire collections of 'stolen' toon content (don't remember names off the top of my head sorry)

Then we have the tube sites, ex-gf-sites, etc etc, seems to me we need to clean up our own backyard before we can really bitch or fight about the neighbors back yard.

Last but not least, want to fight piracy on your own sites? offer stuff that can not be pirated, offer something that can't be downloaded.

USER INTERACTION ;)

-Loki-

PS... SEE SIG!
But, but, but...

Paul Markham 01-16-2012 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 18690114)
Most games on Steam can be easily pirated but they have still seen 100% growth year after year because they made the delivery method nice for the end user, run sales on games all the time and don't treat their customers like shit. When Steam has good sales on games thousands of people buy them just because the price is reasonable and don't even play them for months or years if at all. People don't mind spending money, they mind spending it on overpriced crap you can get anywhere from industries that have a history of shady shit all the way back to day one.
And without piracy they would of grown 50% or 200%. Also do they sell via mobile phone and how much of that is pirated or free?

stocktrader23 01-16-2012 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 18691089)
And without piracy they would of grown 50% or 200%. Also do they sell via mobile phone and how much of that is pirated or free?
Their growth is in spite of piracy, not because of it. People do not mind buying things if you treat them right. They sell more because they have a reputation of not being assholes, pricing things correctly and making the user experience enjoyable. You were talking about shooting better porn in your last response to the user experience, it has nothing to do with that. They sell games that other people wrote, good and bad. They sell more than anyone in the market *of the same exact stuff* because they aren't stupid. No, they don't sell anything for phones. Steam is a delivery platform for computer games and the owner is a billionaire even though everything he sells can easily be pirated.

As for you "it's happening comment", did you know SOPA was shelved indefinitely?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/pol...helf034765.php

stocktrader23 01-16-2012 07:12 AM
On the same note:

Gabe Newell: Piracy Is A ‘Non Issue’

"Valve’s Gabe Newell has had a lot to say about the subject of video game piracy as of late. Last month, he said “The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It’s by giving those people a service that’s better than what they’re receiving from the pirates.”"

"Our goal is to create greater service value than pirates, and this has been successful enough for us that piracy is basically a non-issue for our company. For example, prior to entering the Russian market, we were told that Russia was a waste of time because everyone would pirate our products. Russia is now about to become our largest market in Europe."

http://www.gamefront.com/gabe-newell...s-a-non-issue/

Barry-xlovecam 01-16-2012 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafia_man (Post 18691084)
Then people will just start using third party DNS.

I agree with the price point notime made. Most users don't want a sub because they only want 1 clip. Give them a way to buy a single clip.
Micro-pay for the adult Internet will happen in time but I think only a small percentage of people would pay for a clip in the current situation.

However, if the availability of free pirated content is reduced this percentage would increase as it would be the realistic alternative.

What has to be considered is the abundance of Internet users from low wage developing countries now -- these people are not able to pay developed nation prices. So, if you can process low value payments with minimal payment processing overhead, in a nutshell; that is the dilemma.

An Internet Wallet for porn in the Third World would need modernized banking there that doesn't exist today.

If we could look at the pirate sites' GEO-IP stats of their traffic it might change a lot of thinking here.

Klen 01-16-2012 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 18690114)
Most games on Steam can be easily pirated but they have still seen 100% growth year after year because they made the delivery method nice for the end user, run sales on games all the time and don't treat their customers like shit. When Steam has good sales on games thousands of people buy them just because the price is reasonable and don't even play them for months or years if at all. People don't mind spending money, they mind spending it on overpriced crap you can get anywhere from industries that have a history of shady shit all the way back to day one.
I hate their price discounts,now i have over 300 games which i dont touch ever :1orglaugh

pimpmaster9000 01-16-2012 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 18691085)
The lesser popular will soon become the more popular and that's how it will keep going. Like shooting ducks at the fun fair, new ones will always pop up. To cut piracy you have to attack the funding. Traffic brokers, advertisers, billers, etc.
Yes of course. But my point is that 90% of piracy can be still curbed this way. The popular sites make up for 90% of the total piracy. Take them down, and you are effectively solving most of the problem. Rinse and repeat with the new sites.

No matter what they do, change DNS, Sites, Method, Wording, Whatever the one thing that should be don'e is the constant removal of the top pirate places in what ever form they may come in. 90% of all users will be to lazy to search for new sites.

Advertising pirate sites should be illegal as well and everything else you said. But getting rid of the top players kinda solves 90% of the problem and this is not too bad IMHO.

Loki 01-16-2012 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crucifissio (Post 18691140)
Yes of course. But my point is that 90% of piracy can be still curbed this way. The popular sites make up for 90% of the total piracy. Take them down, and you are effectively solving most of the problem. Rinse and repeat with the new sites.

No matter what they do, change DNS, Sites, Method, Wording, Whatever the one thing that should be don'e is the constant removal of the top pirate places in what ever form they may come in. 90% of all users will be to lazy to search for new sites.

Advertising pirate sites should be illegal as well and everything else you said. But getting rid of the top players kinda solves 90% of the problem and this is not too bad IMHO.
Taking down the X number sites won't really stop (or even put a dent in piracy)

Take torrents for example: as long as people have the .tor files on their computers and the torrent program running files will still spread no matter is the tracking sites are up or down.

and it takes nothing to toss up a new torrent tracker site.

The scope is just really too big, between IRC, newgroups, deepweb, lockers, message boards, torrents, chans, password sites (org started by own own industry :( ) etc etc etc

The genie is out of the bottle, can't put it back in, the ONLY thing you can do now is to take steps to protect your 'current and future' content and ATTEMPT to 'educate' your surfers and or members that getting ANYTHING without paying hurts everyone. (long shot I know) AND as I said before offer stuff that can NOT be pirated.

-Loki-

mafia_man 01-16-2012 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crucifissio (Post 18691140)
Yes of course. But my point is that 90% of piracy can be still curbed this way. The popular sites make up for 90% of the total piracy. Take them down, and you are effectively solving most of the problem. Rinse and repeat with the new sites.

No matter what they do, change DNS, Sites, Method, Wording, Whatever the one thing that should be don'e is the constant removal of the top pirate places in what ever form they may come in. 90% of all users will be to lazy to search for new sites.

Advertising pirate sites should be illegal as well and everything else you said. But getting rid of the top players kinda solves 90% of the problem and this is not too bad IMHO.
Making up stats doesn't help the discussion.

pimpmaster9000 01-16-2012 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki (Post 18691175)
Taking down the X number sites won't really stop (or even put a dent in piracy)

Take torrents for example: as long as people have the .tor files on their computers and the torrent program running files will still spread no matter is the tracking sites are up or down.

and it takes nothing to toss up a new torrent tracker site.
Torrent sites are in a way like social networks. They are "web2.0" and rely on user participation to be successful. New users have to upload new stuff or it isn't interesting. Torrent sites have to reach a "critical mass" of members before being able to offer their users anything that can be monetized by their OP. This critical mass needs time to be reached. No torrent site is an instant "hit". By constantly taking out the big players the torrent sites lose value to most users.

Imagine if facebook/google+ and myspace were banned just for example, sure it would not mean the end of social networking but social networking would take a HUGE hit. It would take time and money for a new social network to have so many members and user experience. Same goes with torrent sites you need lots of seeds to be able to quality download.

Also theres the problem of Malicious torrent site replacements. People will naturally seek new torrent sites, after the old ones are put down, but all the new "Replacements" will have lots of crappy/unedited/unmonitored content because offering decent content, even pirated, takes work and $$.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki (Post 18691175)

The scope is just really too big, between IRC, newgroups, deepweb, lockers, message boards, torrents, chans, password sites (org started by own own industry :( ) etc etc etc
The genie is out of the bottle, can't put it back in
-Loki-
Yes it is indeed out of the bottle, but we can kick the genie in the nuts hard. Taking out the major players and all their replacements in any shape or form. It is not hard to identify major sites that are exclusively dedicated to piracy.

pimpmaster9000 01-16-2012 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafia_man (Post 18691195)
Making up stats doesn't help the discussion.
Not making anything up at all, just saying that 90% of piracy is done by the top players, who are easy to ID and take off the net. By taking out 90% of the problem you have, for a short time, solved 90% of the problem.

Rinse and repeat. Big players are easy to target.

Jamie Gardner 01-16-2012 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfpint (Post 18690242)
Even after talking to both my kids about downloading pirated music and videos they still did not seem to grasp why it was wrong, its a culture thing all thier friends do it too, they used to share music with friends on thier phones at school and its going to be hard to break.
During my time working for a video store chain, a girl at Baskin Robbins offered to give me free ice cream in exchange for free rentals. I turned her down in a diplomatic way. I never said anything to her superiors because I did not want to get her in trouble. Some of my fellow workers defended what she did. Their belief was that she was offering a service and not offering to steal from her store. One of the arguments in her defense was that Baskin Robbins throws out food they don't use. This reminds me of the piracy defenders on porn forums.

Paul Markham 01-16-2012 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EukerVoorn (Post 18690187)
And then when someone takes your property and you phone the police, they go after the thief and punish him and give you back your property (in the perfect situation). Then when someone steals your content on the internet and you phone the police, they don't have a clue to where to start, so they won't do anything at all. So the problem is at law enforcement not enforcing laws on the internet. There is no western country that has exceptions for the internet in its intelligent property laws.

Paul's idea to basically replace law enforcement by a citizen initiative won't work because the thieves will simply piss all over it and get away with it.
You misunderstood my idea. It's a way for the victims to sue those who profit and pay money to pirates.

So a company who find their content on a piracy site, can sue the advertisers, traffic brokers, processing companies. By doing this, the people who fund piracy have to be very careful. As most of them are based in the US it would be simple. Find Video Secrets, Live Jasmin, Brazzers, adverts on a site distributing pirated products or a site like Pirate Bay linking to a piracy site. The judges decide whether the site is "Dedicated to Piracy" and if so awards damages, costs of the plaintiff and cost of the court.

This would very quickly deter companies doing business with the pirate who have and will piss on the victims. Because they are often outside the jurisdiction of the US Justice System.

Of course I'm dreaming. Just like those giving their opinions here. None of us have any effect or input on the solution.

stocktrader23 01-16-2012 09:32 AM
Just sign up to the pirates affiliate program where they pay you 50% revshare on any money earned from your content. :1orglaugh

Paul Markham 01-16-2012 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EukerVoorn (Post 18690203)
People looking for quality porn are still willing to pay $40 for a good DVD and distributing your porn on DVD only is a very good option at the moment because it will take much longer before it gets ripped and ends up on the internet. Because content thieves are unlikely to buy a DVD to rip it and they are also very lazy.
The problem for most is producing a quality porn DVD for the return it will get. If you're one of the big guys it can still be done. Tough but possible. Add cable, Internet, softcore right ad it becomes profitable for a few.

Online porn lumbered itself with the high traffic costs and for us. It's impossible for most. Even for the top dogs it's hard. Can Manwin afford to spend $50,000 on shooting a medium quality hardcore DVD? Not quality just in the cameras used. Probably. Will they do it today as a norm? :1orglaugh

And $10,000 per scene is the price. Unless you shoot amateur like everyone else in a flooded niche does. And then the return is low. Yo might get it with your scat content.

mafia_man 01-16-2012 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crucifissio (Post 18691212)
Not making anything up at all, just saying that 90% of piracy is done by the top players, who are easy to ID and take off the net. By taking out 90% of the problem you have, for a short time, solved 90% of the problem.

Rinse and repeat. Big players are easy to target.
Traffic sources?

Piracy is fragmented between hundreds if not thousands of websites.

porno jew 01-16-2012 10:57 AM
comparing the video game and porn markets is just retarded sorry.

L-Pink 01-16-2012 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bristarrmodel (Post 18689820)
If products are reasonably priced piracy can be reduced but never deterred. Who the hell pays for 40 bucks for a porno dvd and why should it cost that much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 18689829)
Then don't buy it. It's that simple.

A Rolex costs $20,000, why does it cost so much? ... I think I should be allowed to steal it instead. No you either do without, work harder to afford it or buy from a less expensive watch maker. Pretty fucking simple.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 18689914)
Are you really this fucking simple minded? When I jump into discussion on GFY I like to assume that no matter how much I call you an idiot that you are at least intelligent enough to understand what I'm saying. The more I read from you the more I believe that you actually are this stupid.

Let's break this shit down.

You were asked "If products are reasonably priced piracy can be reduced but never deterred. Who the hell pays for 40 bucks for a porno dvd and why should it cost that much?"

A reasonable question because places like STEAM have shown that if you price your digital goods at a level that your consumers consider acceptable and provide a good user experience then piracy is mostly a non issue.

You responded with what I quoted above.



$30 per month porn is Rolex pricing in the internet world. Not for all, just most.



Oh this argument again? Nobody here is saying that anyone should be able to steal your shit, just that you can't fucking stop it. Can you get that through your head? You can't fucking stop this shit, you aren't going to, you are going to have to adjust, die or float along at a fraction of your former glory because you are too bitter and stubborn to do anything about it.



I sure do, too bad most of the internet does not give a fuck about L-Pink from GFY. Now what are you going to do? The law is not going to save you, ever.

Also, you're all self righteous about how you would never pirate anything so obviously you must be an upstanding moral citizen that doesn't do anything one would find questionable. You know, like produce or sell porn?

The fact of the matter is that piracy can't be stopped. When someone tells you that and you jump in with all the reasons you are against it *again* it makes you look retarded. We know you are against it, almost every fucking person here would be happy if magically stopped tomorrow but it's not going to happen.

And one more tidbit just for the record. Copyright laws were intended to keep the flow of information going. They were not created with the purpose of making sure you get paid for every video of a girl being tag teamed by 5 guys that you "own". They begrudgingly accepted the fact that "artistic works" would be copyrighted to give you a monetary incentive to keep releasing them to the public but they never gave a shit about you making money from your ideas. Copyright was for the greater good of society, not your pocketbook. The only reason that all of the arguments fall onto protecting your income streams is that corporations have a lopsided influence on our laws.

Cheers
Stealing because you think a product is overpriced is still stealing. Do without the product or look for something cheaper. That's my point. Don't justify theft by blaming the owner for setting a price point you don't agree with. And thanks for the hostility.

.

.

stocktrader23 01-16-2012 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 18691675)
Stealing because you think a product is overpriced is still stealing. Do without the product or look for something cheaper. That's my point. Don't justify theft by blaming the owner for setting a price point you don't agree with. And thanks for the hostility.

.

.
Those dirty fucking thieves. Does calling them that make me more money in any way? I don't care what you call them, I've probably called them worse, that was not the point.

pimpmaster9000 01-16-2012 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafia_man (Post 18691422)
Traffic sources?

Piracy is fragmented between hundreds if not thousands of websites.
hundreds no problem...thousands? also no problem...turning them off is no problem at all...

Look I'm new to porn but as far as piracy goes I really really know what I'm talking about I used to have 6 shops and 18 workers till they outlawed it in my country back in '99. Razor1911/DOD/SKiDROW back in the Amiga and early PC days were all suppliers of mine sending me DAT tapes with "content" literally every 2-3 days by post.

We had "affiliates" that used to sell our amiga floppy disks/ later PC CDs on every corner. 200 sales/day easy. Competition was through the roof! Every kid and his gold fish sold pirated stuff and it sold like hot cakes!

Complete pirate heaven.

So what happened?


One law and one police "operation" later we were left with no affiliates and no shops to sell from because they got closed. Then a few months later "operation bucanner" happened it took out all my suppliers. I had tons of cash but could not reorganize. The real problem was the customers I had built over the years and the relationship with my suppliers. It was a golden triangle supplier-seller-buyers and we did not "find" each other again. It was never the same. It had a detrimental negative effect on everything. I could not make enough money to pay my workers, previously I could cover their salaries with maybe 1-2 days of good work. No money for new titles, even though I found new suppliers the quality of product never returned to what it used to be nor did the number of new titles/month come back to what it was.

All in all, in synergy, all these things lead to me closing all shops in a matter of a few months.

Today you can STILL get pirated DVDs maybe in 2-3 places in some dark alley in my city. But I consider the efforts of the police a total victory being that most sales now are made in shops that sell original content.

I respectfully disagree with anybody who says that piracy can not be stopped. I have seen it reduced to a joke. I have seen my mickey mouse government take care of it like it was nothing. People were used to getting stuff for free but this meant NOTHING. They got used to buying stuff.

Same story now with the net. It's just a question of action.

SmutHammer 01-16-2012 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxxx9000 (Post 18689647)
We hang them all, and leave one haning in the harbour. Pirates ye be warned!

http://blogallalong.com/images/pirates_be_warned.jpg
:thumbsup :1orglaugh :thumbsup

OneHungLo 01-16-2012 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrob (Post 18690717)
We could just outlaw UNMODERATED, user-generated content. Everybody should be responsible for what they have on their websites in my opinion. God knows, with 2257, adult sites should be in total control of their content.

Just my opinion...
Moderating the content would be impossible, but if they forced "the user" to be identified nobody would be posting content that they didn't own for fear of getting their socks sued off.

CaptainHowdy 01-16-2012 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crucifissio (Post 18691905)
hundreds no problem...thousands? also no problem...turning them off is no problem at all...

Look I'm new to porn but as far as piracy goes I really really know what I'm talking about I used to have 6 shops and 18 workers till they outlawed it in my country back in '99. Razor1911/DOD/SKiDROW back in the Amiga and early PC days were all suppliers of mine sending me DAT tapes with "content" literally every 2-3 days by post.

We had "affiliates" that used to sell our amiga floppy disks/ later PC CDs on every corner. 200 sales/day easy. Competition was through the roof! Every kid and his gold fish sold pirated stuff and it sold like hot cakes!

Complete pirate heaven.

So what happened?


One law and one police "operation" later we were left with no affiliates and no shops to sell from because they got closed. Then a few months later "operation bucanner" happened it took out all my suppliers. I had tons of cash but could not reorganize. The real problem was the customers I had built over the years and the relationship with my suppliers. It was a golden triangle supplier-seller-buyers and we did not "find" each other again. It was never the same. It had a detrimental negative effect on everything. I could not make enough money to pay my workers, previously I could cover their salaries with maybe 1-2 days of good work. No money for new titles, even though I found new suppliers the quality of product never returned to what it used to be nor did the number of new titles/month come back to what it was.

All in all, in synergy, all these things lead to me closing all shops in a matter of a few months.

Today you can STILL get pirated DVDs maybe in 2-3 places in some dark alley in my city. But I consider the efforts of the police a total victory being that most sales now are made in shops that sell original content.

I respectfully disagree with anybody who says that piracy can not be stopped. I have seen it reduced to a joke. I have seen my mickey mouse government take care of it like it was nothing. People were used to getting stuff for free but this meant NOTHING. They got used to buying stuff.

Same story now with the net. It's just a question of action.
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2...2037919076.png

chaze 01-16-2012 09:08 PM
Simple create a database of all content owners so hosts can check if they have content rights or not. It wouldn't be hard, content providers would just need to add when stuff is sold.

Operator 01-16-2012 10:58 PM
We don't own man


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