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PornoDoggy 02-07-2003 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Monkie



Uh, stinger missles are not weapons of mass destruction? And we did indeed give saddam gas in the form of mustard gas to use against iran, who at the time was using cyanide gas against iraq. Its not exactly known what kind of weapons were given to iran terrorists in the iran/contra affair, but its probably fair to say they were deadly. And yes, the usa govt has always thought wmd's were ok as long as they were in the usa best interest. But you see nothing wrong with that?

Iran, to my knowledge, has never been accused of using gas against the Iraqis by any responsible source. And no, Stinger missles are hardly weapons of mass destruction.

There is a strong possibility that much of the beginings of the Iranian chemical and biological weapons programs took place with the cooperation (or averted eyes) of the U.S. government, however, under Reagan and GHB.

Joe Sixpack 02-07-2003 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking


The USA has thousands of museums and art galleries. It is extraordinarily culturally rich. I just informed you that virtually every county within the USA has one or more museums and art gallerys. In addition many cities have museums and art galleries within the city. As an example I live in a small population county and in the county we have at least two museums that I am aware of and several art gallerys. You may prefer the museums and art galleries of Europe but you implied that the USA does not have museums and art galleries. We have our own culture and this is reflected in our museums and in our art.

You obviously have no understanding of art.

You have in your art galleries what the Europeans have chosen to sell you or graciously allowed you to borrow. There is more significant art in the Louvre in Paris then there is in your whole country. That is not my opinion, it is a fact.

And in terms of American art - no, Norman Rockwell is not Rembrandt or Michaelangelo. Not by a long shot.

PornoDoggy 02-07-2003 08:18 PM

Joe ... calling you a moron would give morons a bad name. The U.S. has produced its own artists, and there are lots of folks with more than enough money to buy plenty of culture. You are every bit as ignorant as the folks you oppose.

Just out of curiousity ... was your father an annymous American serviceman that abandoned your mother? It would explain the bitterness ...

Gutterboy 02-07-2003 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking
The USA has thousands of museums and art galleries.
.. if you like monster truck museums

Quote:

It is extraordinarily culturally rich.
.. if you're a white trash anthropologist

Quote:

We have our own culture and this is reflected in our museums and in our art.
.. almost all of which are borrowed from Europe

Whats lacking is history. The USA is only 200 years old, of course its not going to have the culture of some country thats been around in one form or another for 2000 years. Its as silly to criticize the US for not having the cultural history of France as it is to pretend that ithe culture is there when its not.

To put it another way, you can't have a Micheangelo without his environment.. a place where diverse elements of Christianity, Greek culture, and the Roman Empire were melded by the Catholic Church over the millenia to produce its enormous body of artwork and liturgical music.

What pisses some Euro's off is the perception that Americans as a whole actually seem to revel in their general lack of cultural sophistication. And its true to a certain degree. Where else in the world can you insult someone by calling them an academic, an "elite", a highbrow, a pointy head, or any of the other cultural or intellectual monikers frequently used as perjoratives by angry Americans?

theking 02-07-2003 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack


You obviously have no understanding of art.

You have in your art galleries what the Europeans have chosen to sell you or graciously allowed you to borrow. There is more significant art in the Louvre in Paris then there is in your whole country. That is not my opinion, it is a fact.

And in terms of American art - no, Norman Rockwell is not Rembrandt or Michaelangelo. Not by a long shot.

BS. We have very little European art in our art galleries and that is limited to the major galleries with in major cities. Most art and artifacts on display through out the nation are created by American artists and are American artifacts. If you prefer the European culture, aritfacts and art, so be it.

By the way..."art is in the eye of the beholder" and I don't need some pretentious critic telling me what and what is not art.

cinsitycash 02-07-2003 08:42 PM

The european envy is great. I love it when Europeans talk down this country because it's not liek their country. I don't know about you, but it takes all of Europe to compete with our dollar. Why is France using a damn Euro? Please tell me that. I never understood that ":ak47: France"

Like they said before me, 200 years compared to the entire British Empire. LOL. We changed this world so fast, in such little time it's pathetic. The Brits have nothing to szay to America about going into other countries. The British Empire was brutal. They did some fucked up shit, and into the 80s too.

":BangBang: Germany"
":ak47: France"
":GFYBand UK"

Big Monkie 02-07-2003 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PornoDoggy


Iran, to my knowledge, has never been accused of using gas against the Iraqis by any responsible source. And no, Stinger missles are hardly weapons of mass destruction.


Wow, the ignorance of so many people about so much of this is frightening.
Is the United States Defense Intelligence Agency a responsible source? Go here http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/31/opinion/31PELL.html
for a new york times story of how it MAY have been iran who gassed the kurds instead of saddam.
And here;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Dec29.html
for more info on how reagan/bush KNOWINGLY supported saddam in his use of chemical weapons.
Your statement that stinger missles are not weapons of mass destruction doesnt even deserve a reply.

Rip 02-07-2003 09:06 PM

I always liked the independant way France thinks, like when they sold exocet missiles to argentina for their mirage fighters

It was so cute the way that the french technicians were right there in argentina, as the missiles were installed on the fighters, making certain that all systems were -go- minutes before the missiles were fired at the Sheffield

what a great people and what fantastic after sales service;

"....Paris contracted to sell a total of 133 Mirage F-1 fighters to Iraq..."

"...between 1981 and 1985, the value of French arms transfers to Iraq was US$5.1 billion..."

"...Iraq also bought more than 400 Exocet AM39 air-to-surface missiles and at least 200 AS30 laserguided missiles between 1983 and 1986. Second, unlike most other suppliers, France adopted an independent and unambiguous arms sales policy towards Iraq..."


"....Police in the western German cities of Mannheim and Cologne have opened inquiries into a German-Russian businessman suspected of masterminding the illegal supply of weapons to Iraq, ..."

"...Iraq's report says the equipment was either sold or made by more than 30 German companies...."

"....SMOKING GUN: German exports may have helped build Iraqi weapons...."

"....nuclear expert and a weapons inspector in 1996.
According to Iraq's accounting, the real help came from German experts and companies, in particular H&H Metallform, which sold the Iraqis old designs for centrifuges...."

OneHungLo 02-07-2003 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mystery Man
No offense meant to any of the above posters
But I think it would maybe look a little bit different if we could see the actual reason.
The US has kept saying they had proofs and then yesterday C.Powell shows us what is supposed to be the proofs, but it more looked like an abandoned warehouse and for all that we know it could have been anything.
And it doesn't help when the UN chief inspector Hans Blix later that day denies the claims of your foreign minister.

To be honest with you all I think that the Europeans are more than willing to go to war against IRAQ if we indeed could see some proofs of Saddam hiding biological weapons.

But until you show us some proofs I guess you are on your own.

Nope the french are just stalling the war till the last document of them supplying iraq with chemicals to create checmical weapons are shredded... then they will be ready to go along with us :Graucho

MetaformX 02-07-2003 09:09 PM

50

Big Monkie 02-07-2003 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cinsitycash
The British Empire was brutal. They did some fucked up shit
So that makes it ok for us (the usa) to do the same? And not ok for a british citizen to say its wrong?

Rose 02-07-2003 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack


Europe has thousands of museums and art galleries. It is extraordinarily culturally rich. I have spent eight months in the last five years backpacking through Europe and going to museums and art galleries from London to Budapest. If you don't know what I'm talking about its because you haven't been.

Hey Sixpack.. Did you visit Prague?

Big Monkie 02-07-2003 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MetaformX
50
Still funny how 12clicks abandoned his own thread after i asked him if he was a chicken hawk. These tough talking types are so predictable.........

12clicks 02-07-2003 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Monkie
I guess 12clicks didnt want to answer my question.
Son, if I don't respond to a post, its because I'm not around our your post is too childish to respond to. You post happends to be both but I'll answer it anyway just for fun.

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Monkie
So when people are reluctant to slaughter tens of thousands of people to get one man, all based on flimsy "evidence" and proof, that makes them pansies?
If "tens of thousands of people support saddam, then they die. its that simple.

Flimsy evidence? only if you're a euro-pansie. Any thoughtful person would see colin powell's evidence as proof plenty.



Quote:

Originally posted by Big Monkie
Is general norman schwarzkoff a pansy for thinking there isnt proof enough for an invasion?
General schwarzkoff is in the private sector and 1. not privy to intel. and 2. needing to be provacative to earn speaking money.l

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Monkie
How about the huge numbers of american veterans who are standing up and saying the same thing, are they pansies too?
This is a lie you can't support with even a shed of evidence. Don't come at me with lies, idiot.


Quote:

Originally posted by Big Monkie

But what about you 12clicks, are you a chicken hawk like bush and most of his backers or do you just sound like one?
?

Running out of false facts moron?

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Monkie

I'm tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired and shot, nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded, who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell."-- General William T. Sherman Michigan Military Academy June 19, 1879?

stupid, do you even know who you are quoting or what war he fought in?
I'll bet not.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

scooby doo as scooby does 02-07-2003 09:24 PM

Quote:

Like they said before me, 200 years compared to the entire British Empire. LOL. We changed this world so fast, in such little time it's pathetic. The Brits have nothing to szay to America about going into other countries. The British Empire was brutal. They did some fucked up shit, and into the 80s too.

---------------------

The US has a long long way to go before it's power is anything like that of the British Empire at it's height relatively speaking. The US also has a long long way to go before it's as brutal as the British Empire. Thats not to say this Iraq thing doesn't read exactly like a chapter out of British history, save you'll almost certainly kill more innocent civilians due to more modern bomb/missile weapons.

Jaceem 02-07-2003 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack


Europe has thousands of museums and art galleries. It is extraordinarily culturally rich. I have spent eight months in the last five years backpacking through Europe and going to museums and art galleries from London to Budapest. If you don't know what I'm talking about its because you haven't been.

You just keep backpacking around the world and be happy and carefree. The USA will always be here to protect you and your way of life regardless of how you feel about us.

12clicks 02-07-2003 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kat
12clicks - shut up you knob - you couldn't come back to me last night and you should just sit in front of your 'board and aggravate more newbies.

You're still not worth my old desert boots - stick to talking about online porn, a subject you know about.

Please. I don't answer every irrelevant assclown.
You and your country don't matter. Even if you scream otherwise.:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Joe Sixpack 02-07-2003 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rose


Hey Sixpack.. Did you visit Prague?

Been there twice. In October 1998 and in December 2002.

I love Prague. It's amazing... and CHEAP!

Joe Sixpack 02-07-2003 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jace


You just keep backpacking around the world and be happy and carefree. The USA will always be here to protect you and your way of life regardless of how you feel about us.

Thank you I will.

Rose 02-07-2003 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack


Been there twice. In October 1998 and in December 2002.

I love Prague. It's amazing... and CHEAP!

Cool I was born there.. I love that city. Cheap? I dont know about that.

Joe Sixpack 02-07-2003 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rose


Cool I was born there.. I love that city. Cheap? I dont know about that.

Half a litre of beer for 22 crowns (if you're smart) is cheap. And Czech beer is GOOD. I lived very well there for very little.

Rose 02-07-2003 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack


Half a litre of beer for 22 crowns (if you're smart) is cheap. Ande Czech beer is GOOD. I lived very well there for very little.

What? You paid 22 crowns for a beer? That's really expensive.
If you know where to go, you pay about 10 crowns for a beer.

Joe Sixpack 02-07-2003 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rose


What? You paid 22 crowns for a beer? That's really expensive.
If you know where to go, you pay about 10 crowns for a beer.

Well obviously I never ventured too far from the centre of the city... a tram stop or two. I only had four days this time. In some places on Wenceslas Square it can be 60-90 crowns for a beer.

So anyway, so you're telling me that paying 35c (US), if that's what you can get it for, isn't cheap?

Prague is cheap.

Rose 02-07-2003 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack


Well obviously I never ventured too far from the centre of the city... a tram stop or two. I only had four days this time. In some places on Wenceslas Square it can be 60-90 crowns for a beer.

So anyway, so you're telling me that paying 35c (US), if that's what you can get it for, isn't cheap?

Prague is cheap.

Wenceslas Square is for tourists, yes. And also somewhere they charge you more if you dont speak czech. If you leave Prague it's much cheaper. Last spring I paid 50 crowns for a good dinner and a beer in Neratovice. Small town about 20 km north of Prague

Joe Sixpack 02-07-2003 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rose


Wenceslas Square is for tourists, yes. And also somewhere they charge you more if you dont speak czech. If you leave Prague it's much cheaper. Last spring I paid 50 crowns for a good dinner and a beer in Neratovice. Small town about 20 km north of Prague

Slovakia is cheaper still... but not as interesting.

Rose 02-07-2003 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack


Well obviously I never ventured too far from the centre of the city... a tram stop or two. I only had four days this time. In some places on Wenceslas Square it can be 60-90 crowns for a beer.

So anyway, so you're telling me that paying 35c (US), if that's what you can get it for, isn't cheap?

Prague is cheap.

and BTW about expensive I didnt mean beer or food. Like renting a car can be quite expensive. Usually I fly to Munich and rent a car
there and drive to Prague, it's cheaper. Also living there is not too cheap for normal czech people.

Rose 02-07-2003 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack


Slovakia is cheaper still... but not as interesting.

I've never been there.

Joe Sixpack 02-07-2003 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rose


and BTW about expensive I didnt mean beer or food. Like renting a car can be quite expensive. Usually I fly to Munich and rent a car
there and drive to Prague, it's cheaper. Also living there is not too cheap for normal czech people.

I travel by train. I get a Eurail pass. It's much more convenient.

Rose 02-07-2003 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack


I travel by train. I get a Eurail pass. It's much more convenient.

Yes if you go from one major city to another one, it's OK. But I have a family members all over Czech republic. Plus I have my 4 year old son with me, so car is more convenient in my case.

PornoDoggy 02-07-2003 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Monkie



Wow, the ignorance of so many people about so much of this is frightening.
Is the United States Defense Intelligence Agency a responsible source? Go here http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/31/opinion/31PELL.html
for a new york times story of how it MAY have been iran who gassed the kurds instead of saddam.
And here;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Dec29.html
for more info on how reagan/bush KNOWINGLY supported saddam in his use of chemical weapons.
Your statement that stinger missles are not weapons of mass destruction doesnt even deserve a reply.

Monkie my man ... I was unaware of the article you linked to regarding the possibility that the Kurds were killed by Iranians, and thank you for pointing them out to me.

Regarding the beginnings of the Iranian chemical/biological programs, however, if you read my post you will see that I said
Quote:

There is a strong possibility that much of the beginings of the Iranian chemical and biological weapons programs took place with the cooperation (or averted eyes) of the U.S. government, however, under Reagan and GHB.
As far as a stinger missle - it is a surface to air missle originally designed to be used by ground troops against hostile aircraft, although terrorists have put it to other uses. It is not nuclear, biological, or chemical, and is no more a 'WMD" than a fully automatic weapon or an artillery piece.

letshunt 02-07-2003 11:46 PM

The British SAS bailing out the US?

I cannot recall any instance when British SAS, who are damn good soldiers bailed us out. We trained with them, they are fine soldiers, as I said.

while I was never part of the delta force version of special forces, some friends of mine from Special forces were graduated to that unit...those fellas are as effective and brutal as they get...bar none.

Seal Team six is no slouch either. We had some joint exercises with them, pretty bad men.

It seems to me that Special Forces pretty did a number on the Taliban, they were in there three months before anyone and were not detected and then coordinated the bombing effort.

What is your experience with special ops that has given you the idea that British SAS was bailing us out?

Yassi 02-07-2003 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Monkie
So when people are reluctant to slaughter tens of thousands of people to get one man, all based on flimsy "evidence" and proof, that makes them pansies? Is general norman schwarzkoff a pansy for thinking there isnt proof enough for an invasion? How about the huge numbers of american veterans who are standing up and saying the same thing, are they pansies too?
But what about you 12clicks, are you a chicken hawk like bush and most of his backers or do you just sound like one?



I'm tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired and shot, nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded, who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell."-- General William T. Sherman Michigan Military Academy June 19, 1879

Your are a fucking idiot.
Those "innocent people" will do anything for their leader which they blindly support(because Saddam as any leader of a fucked up muslim country has procalaimed himself defender of islam). Wake the fuck up and stop being such a pussy

letshunt 02-07-2003 11:52 PM

"As far as a stinger missle - it is a surface to air missle originally designed to be used by ground troops against hostile aircraft, although terrorists have put it to other uses. It is not nuclear, biological, or chemical, and is no more a 'WMD" than a fully automatic weapon or an artillery piece."

Not to good against modern helicopters, show your face to a blackhawk chopper, and it's going to light up the heads up array the pilot uses...and you are going to eat metal.

The Taliban couldn't get them off...too much technology...especially on night ops, when chopper pilots are out hunting...the infrared signature of a body stands out like a bright light.

Big Monkie 02-08-2003 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

Son, if I don't respond to a post, its because I'm not around our your post is too childish to respond to. You post happends to be both but I'll answer it anyway just for fun.

Ok papa, i like to have fun too. And i notice you still havent answered my question; are you a chicken hawk?


Quote:

If "tens of thousands of people support saddam, then they die. its that simple.
So thats how you rationalize the slaughter. You really think most of those people support such a tyrant? If they do its only because of the typical dictator style propaganda from saddam (which the usa is making easy) or their fear of him. Which brings to mind the question of who created such a powerful tyrant? WE created him and now will literally slaughter thousands (dumb as they may or may not be) to clean up the mess. Then we will install a puppet govt and millions of americans will sit around scratching their heads wondering why so many people around the world dont like us. Get ready for more loss of freedom
to protect us from the coming increase in terrorism. Bush will get to play his tough talking chickenhawk role to the hilt, it will be interesting to see how many people continue to fall for it. But the real question is, are YOU a chickenhawk?


Quote:

Any thoughtful person would see colin powell's evidence as proof plenty.
The only "thoughtfulness" involved in seeing those aerial pictures and dubious recordings as real evidence would be a vivid imagination. And/or just wanting to believe. Umm, are you a chickenhawk?


Quote:

stupid, do you even know who you are quoting or what war he fought in?
I'll bet not.
Mmm, how much? I have lived in georgia and have personally seen many of the places where sherman heard some of those shrieks and groans. The point is that he is talking about chickenhawks like so many of the tough talkers that are pushing this slaughter/occupation of iraq.
So are you a chickenhawk or not?

A definition fron the chickenhawk database; "bellicosity (a warlike manner or temperament), public prominence, and a curious lack of wartime service when others their age had no trouble finding the fight."

Mark 02-08-2003 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LiveDose


Thanks for a great laugh moron.


Wow, that was a nice reply.. guess you missed out when they handed out sense of humour eh?

Well go fuck yourself halfwit. :321GFY

Mark 02-08-2003 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by letshunt
The British SAS bailing out the US?

I cannot recall any instance when British SAS, who are damn good soldiers bailed us out. We trained with them, they are fine soldiers, as I said.

while I was never part of the delta force version of special forces, some friends of mine from Special forces were graduated to that unit...those fellas are as effective and brutal as they get...bar none.

Seal Team six is no slouch either. We had some joint exercises with them, pretty bad men.

It seems to me that Special Forces pretty did a number on the Taliban, they were in there three months before anyone and were not detected and then coordinated the bombing effort.

What is your experience with special ops that has given you the idea that British SAS was bailing us out?

Well actually what I said was britsh armed forces bailing you out, not the SAS specifically, I did however say the SAS get called in to do the serious stuff and I know this coz I saw it in a movie with harrison ford.. I assumed that those words combined with the smilies made it pretty damn clear that I was fucking joking!!!

WTF is wrong with GFY these days?! Everyone is all serious and can't understand a joke?!

Shit, now I need to find a good anti israel thread to burn off some steam.. :winkwink:

ControlThy 02-08-2003 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

created by American artists and are American artifacts.

American artifacts?

Joe Sixpack 02-08-2003 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PornoDoggy
Joe ... calling you a moron would give morons a bad name. The U.S. has produced its own artists, and there are lots of folks with more than enough money to buy plenty of culture. You are every bit as ignorant as the folks you oppose.

Just out of curiousity ... was your father an annymous American serviceman that abandoned your mother? It would explain the bitterness ...

You speak BULLSHIT!

.:Frog:. 02-08-2003 04:10 AM

Its not worth the energy to even respond to 12clicks. The guy is a msg board troll, and nothing more.

I'd be missing out on too many laughs if I put him on ignore, but that idea has crossed my mind a few times.

Kat - Fast 02-08-2003 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks


Please. I don't answer every irrelevant assclown.
You and your country don't matter. Even if you scream otherwise.:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Quit pulling my finger :1orglaugh


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