Greed is when you don't give back to your co-workers, industry, community, etc.

Whether you are an individual or a corporation, the source of greed is not how much money you make after expenses; but, what you do with the extra after all your needs are met.

So people are only entitled to keep what they "need"?

This sounds familiar.....

http://i.imgur.com/x0Ml4.png

Holy crap that was great. I could not have said it better. :2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:

I said:

I did not say "what the government does with the extra after all your needs are met."

Two totally different concepts.

God! these people are either stupid or misinformed....

The Fords and the other capitalists did not give workers good wages, Trade Unions and workers working together for the benefit of all fought for living wages.

The working class and left wing parties fought tooth and nail for a health Service for all in the UK, the opposite to greed.

During the Cold War when the capitalist class shit its pants in fear of communism, there was free education, free dentistry, unemployment pay, in lots of the West etc etc, showing that Soviet Communism benefited the Western working class.

Communist countries did everything western capitalist countries did but without a class of the super rich.

Now after 20 years of casino neo liberal capitalism the greed is an embarrassment to all,

6000 people own more than $1,000,000,000 each, they own more than whole peoples, its often based on economic technological accidents, like who invents a piece of simple software first. or land stolen hundreds of years ago , or whole industries

With this wealth they buy the politics, the culture and the soul of whole nations.

With whole countries and communities dying from lack of jobs or water or peace it is time to end this system of greed.

Why do you work? Isn't it so you can make as much as you can?

I don't work for charity. I work for the greater good of myself and my family. That drive... that quest for bettering yourself... That's where innovation comes from.

I don't think you watched the videos. These people are brilliant and very well informed.

Man, you are so out there it makes some of the wackos here seem normal.

Its not theft because you don't need to watch the movie. You are not being forced to pay for it. There is no gun to your head. A movie is not a human right or some requirement to live. Its just entertainment.

A lot of things are overpriced. The solution is not to steal them. The solution is to not buy them.

It's totally unreal that people think they have some basic entitlement to entertainment and if its not made available on terms they personally find agreeable - then they are ok to steal it.

:2 cents:

Who says being able to live a rich, uplifting, enjoyable life is not a human right? What is a human right then? To enjoy or experience nothing unless you are rich enough to pay for it?

Billion dollar corporations are quick to complain about people stealing their shit; they're a lot less interested in addressing the root cause of theft, which is poverty, inequality and the fact that so much money is in their hands, at the expense of 'the masses'.

How does not buying help either the person who doesn't buy or the company they didn't buy from?

The solution is to make higher quality products and not overprice them. One definition of greed is knocking out cheaply produced junk at inflated prices. There is no 'human right' to go around ripping people off, just because people are required to spend their money before they know it's even worth it.

Okay explain why it's acceptable for people to be denied 'art' or entertainment (movies, books, music, TV, or games) just because, for whatever reason, they are unable to afford it. Why do only rich people have the 'human right' to enjoy life?

You have endless options to entertain yourself with. Who is forcing you to live in a cage and eat only bread and water? I'm confused with your bizarre, overacted and melodramatic logic

Ok... communism failed. End of story. In fact, there are not communist states for you to move to. Try Cuba? Dunno how to help you.




You are not denied anything. You are 100% free to pay $9.00 for a movie ticket to watch a 3d IMAX movie with your favorite stars that cost $200,000,000.00+ USD to produce. Not a bad deal. You just feel you should be able to steal it if you want to.

You are also free to not watch movies at all.

You are free to rent that same movie a couple months later on DVD from Redbox for $1.00 per night.

You are free to watch TV for free.

You are free to pay for Cable and have 100s of channels to watch, 24hrs a day.

Your real issue is that you simply want everything on your terms and hate the fact that life doesn't happen on your terms. When you grow up, you'll finally start to get it.

Why am i denied the opportunity to own and drive a new Bugatti Veyron? I might just have to get on your bandwagon and steal one because i'm on board with your sense of entitlement. Why should i be denied the experience of driving a $1,000,000.00 vehicle even if i didn't earn the right?

At what point?

About 2008.

I'm confused why you're pretending to lose so much sleep over other people's stuff being "stolen".

Last I heard, capitalism failed and had to be bailed out by socialism.

*sigh* Again: nothing is being 'stolen'.

I'm also free to borrow it from someone for nothing. Do you think that is stealing too? Please, explain, what is being 'stolen'.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh And the most egregious Pot/Kettle award of 2012 goes to.

Because that is stealing, not copying. Come back when you know the difference.

As for having to 'earn the right' to watch movies or listen to music... :Oh crap

The conversation began about theft... you twisted it into something else playing semantics.

However, copyright infringement is illegal. "Illegal" since you're so thick, means "you do not have that right"

And... i'm not losing sleep over anything. I personally don't care if you download movies. I do it all the time. however, i'm not so retarded that I argue that i'm entitled to do so, make absurd comparisons to human rights, argue that its not illegal or argue that its my right to do so. I do it... and I know i'm wrong for doing it. I know its illegal. I'm not such a weak person that I would deny those simple facts as most seem to do.

The argument is about "right" or "wrong", "Legal" and "illegal". It's wrong. It's illegal. End of story. The law tells you its wrong and that you have no such right. In fact, every developed nation the world agrees with that simple point and with the need to protect intellectual property and its creators as one of the many fundamental mechanisms which drive an economy.

:2 cents:

in my brain I got a capitalist migraine

what in the name of fuck are you talking about boy ?

what about if the other family cant afford it ? they are both working minimum wage but one family's parents spend all the money on crack. Its ok for them to steal the food then is it ?

copying is not even theft ? are fucking huffin paint mother fucker ?

if you ever contemplate breeding let me know and I will crush your fucking nutsack with a mallet free of fucking charge

Bought a domain for $7 and sat on it for 2 years, got an offer for $7500, felt guilty and lowered it to $6500, so think I thought of myself as greedy, he was a nice guy so lowering it was easy :1orglaugh

Great negotiating skills.

qft :pimp

Karl Marx who employed servants and didn't pay them. While living in luxury. This idiot is as much a Communists looking after the "workers" as I'm a Martian.

You are either stupid or blind. If you agree with this statement try living in Cuba, N. Korea, China, Burma or some other communist country that achieved everything a Western Capitalist country achieved.

Name the Communist countries that have true open elections.
Name the Communist countries that have true open media.
Name the Communist countries that have a living standard to compare with western capitalist countries.
Name the Communist countries that have a health service to compare with western capitalist countries.
Name the Communist countries that have a benefits system to compare with most western capitalist countries.

Don't just name the US as the example of all the rest because it suits your flawed debate.

In truth there has never ever been a real Communist country run by the people and for the people. Because it's doomed to failure. Immediately after the Russian Revolution millions died of starvation, while there was food waiting for a committee to decide whose job it was to distribute it.

Mao killed millions with his radical Communists ideals.

You hate big powerful men getting to run big powerful companies for their own ends. The problem with Communism is those people still exist and with even more power. They end up running the whole country and setting their own rules.

Sums up this thief's perspective perfectly. How about I clone your sites, clone your content, and steal all your traffic, and all your previous income becomes my income... In the words of you: "oh no, that's not stealing!"

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Sure, buddy. It's only not considered stealing when it benefits the thief.

So why do you promote ripping people off? You don't know if anything is worth it until you buy it. Why are electronic goods any different? The economy is not typically based on "try it before you buy it"... You buy the good or service and then you decide if it was worth it to you, and then you take it up with the merchant if the product did not live up to expectations.

Orange juice ain't fresh? Return it. Store's policy is posted clearly prior to purchase being made. Everything is agreed upon. VISA provides buyer protection, too.

Just because you don't know how this particular orange juice tastes does NOT give you the right to consume it without paying for it.

Learn the difference between human rights and legal rights.

Oh, I'm sure everyone on this board, who cries endless crocodile tears about piracy, is a pirate themselves. There isn't a single person here who has not used an image, music file, video file, text file, or something else without permission at one time in their life.

The very act of doing it means you think you're entitled to, dummy. When you don't think you're entitled to do something, that's when you don't do it; not when you do. Good luck in convincing yourself you're not retarded.

You are the one who started talking about human rights in this thread, twice, not me.

When did I argue it's not illegal?

Again: the act of doing something means you think you have the right to do it, otherwise you simply would not do it.

Again: if you thought it was wrong, you wouldn't do it. And lying to yourself like that is weak.

So it's illegal. BFD. Sodomy was illegal in some places a decade ago; still is in many, if not most, parts of the world. Does that make it wrong?

"Legal" is fact. "Wrong" is an opinion or feeling. And - I repeat, to see if it sinks in - if you genuinely think something is wrong, you simply do not do it.

The fact that you do it demonstrates that you think there is nothing wrong with it, so stop pretending otherwise.

I don't think you're in any position to ask other people WTF they are talking about.

No not at all. This is smart investing. Greed would be if you did nothing but looked after yourself with those profits (such as executives pillaging a company just to get their own personal bonuses and not caring about the shareholders, i know you have seen that happen)

Expressed better than i ever could. Greed is selfish, true capitalism is a feedback loop helping others by providing them with a means to better themselves

There is not a simple answer to this, some people are forced to work, work or eat, Some people have jobs they enjoy and pays them well.

Most people work together to make things, on farms, down mines, in factories or even on forums sharing ideas etc. Industrial societies are cooperative efforts that produce goods with less and less labour power. People who work like this see the advantage of working together and having reasonable demands as to rewards for their work. Trade Unions ask for a living wage, good housing, overtime payments, good health care and schools.

The don't demand a million dolar bonus for each worker.

A special group of people, think they are different, born to rule, and to consume as much as possible, while children die due to lack of clean water.

The task to create a society without the greedy for the needy.

Less time writing about what you don't know about here and more reading would do you a lot of good.

You have never read any Marx. Marx lived in poverty most of his life.

The communist countries played by different rules....

They aimed to feed, clothe and house everybody. They gave everybody access to health care and schools. I provided jobs for everyone. These societies were some of the poorest and least developed but if you compare them to equivalent capitalist countries you can see better.
Compare Communist Cuba with Dominican Republic or Haiti
Communist Poland with Brazil


Capitalism is only interested in people with money. If you have no money you are free to die.

I'm not forced to do anything, actually. I work to satisfy myself. And I demand a million dollar salary, because that's what I choose to pay myself.

Are you going to tell me I'm not worthy of reaping the reward for working that hard?

And if not, how much less hard should I be working?

I'll be awaiting your reply. I want to know how much less hard I need to be working to achieve the goals you have for me.

Wanting to sell something you create at a price you think it is worth, is not greed. It is being paid for your work. Or if you want to just give it away, it's the choice of the creator.

Anyone who says it's "greed" is a freeloading douche who has never created anything in their life.

As soon as the USA gets its paws on Cuba, and it will happen eventually, it will go the way of those other two shit holes. Then lets see how everything works out for the Cuban people.

Ok, you've gone past reason and are now free falling into desperate and pathetic with each new reply.

I speed. I do not have the legal right to speed. What rights I have and do not have are in our founding documents and are codified, defined and/or restricted by law. Speeding does not mean I believe I have the right to do so. I can break the law without believing I am right to break the law or that the law doesn't apply to me. I certainly can't argue that I have the legal right to do something illegal as your pea brain seems to be suggesting, being that its such an obvious contradiction.

"Rights" are not some abstract idea on a sliding scale that you adjust to suit your wants and whims that day... or depending on what movies are released that weekend and whether you wish to pay 4.00 for the matinee or 9.00 for the evening.

You have no legal right to illegally copy the work of another. One would think that to be self evident given the fact that you know its illegal. Doesn't seem like a complex concept to wrap ones mind around.. yet you just can't seem to.

Anyway, this is why I post less and less here. Too many idiots. Too little time. Too much work to do.

It is not a matter of personal morality. We can say that a society working together has an average wage. The people earning less are being underpaid and those more overpaid. Some of this will reflect that some are lazy, unproductive, stupid or talented, hard working etc... but if a person is taking more than 10 times the average wage we can assume they are being paid more than they are creating due to their specific position in society.

What you do with the excess money is also important, and whether you support people who fight for a better more just society

Huge profits serve society as a whole. Supply & Demand 101
 

Human are not perfect all knowing beings. No, they are imperfect. They do not know everything that goes on in the world. They do not know what other people are thinking. They do not know exactly how much of certain resource is available right now or will be available 5 days or 10 months from now. They do not know exactly how much of a certain product people will be buying next month. They don't know exactly how many visitors their websites will get. etc.

Every entrepreneurial activity (every investment of saved resources) is by definition speculative. To reduce risks, people gather information and to the best of their ability try to analyze that information.

Let's say your company produces product A and another company produces a totally different product B. Your company is the only one on the market that sells product A (or anything even remotely similar). People like product A and you (being the only one selling it) charge a high price for it and as a result you make a huge profit. The company that produces product B however has very few customers and looses money.

Is this good? Yes it is. Prices mean something, they have a "signal function" in the market economy. The fact that you can charge a high price for product A and that people value product A enough to pay that price for it sends a message to other actors (entrepreneurs) in the market economy. They too will want to make a huge profit and will start producing products that are similar to product A (products that perform the same function or some of the same functions or solve the problems that product A solves in an alternative way). The result is that supply of product A goes up and prices come down. Society as a whole benefits from this because now more people will be able to buy product A and they'll be able to buy it at a lower price. Society also benefits in other ways: no one in his right mind will start investing his resources in producing a product like product B because they now already now that people weren't interested in that product.

Prices help distribute/ration resources that are already available.
Example: Let's say a copper mine in Brazil collapses during an earthquake. The total amount of copper available decreases. The price of copper goes up. Every company around the world that uses copper in the production of whatever it is they are producing now knows there's less copper available and they can adjust their production accordingly.

The most important purpose that prices serve whoever is in the coordination of the future rationing of resources. As I've shown in my product A vs product B example, it's is because a company was able to make a huge profit selling product A, that other actors in the market were able to figure out what the public wanted.

What it comes down to is natural selection. I come from an 3rd world shit hole and I still make money.

Bill Gates or Rupert Murdoch or any other billionaire have ZERO influence on my ability to make money.

In fact, Bill Gatses Windows helps me make money. He also employs 90.000 people world wide.

Bottom line: How ever the rich made their money has nothing to do with you. If you don't have money its probably because you are a stupid and lazy shit. Even if you are not, the root of your bad luck does not lie in other peoples success.

/whoever/however/

profits become greed when those who did not produce anything greedily want to take the profits of another.

Stealing content and greed having nothing to do with one another.

Talking about the greed of the producer of the content is the subconscious method of justifying the theft.

Okay, you have to be trolling. In case you're not, let's try again:

The very fact that you deliberately break the law demonstrates that you do not believe the law applies to you.

Please. Get someone to explain to you the difference between RIGHTS and LEGAL RIGHTS.

It's quite apparent you have no idea what "rights" are, or can be, and think the only valid, or existent, rights are the ones that are bestowed (and can be 'un-bestowed') by lawmakers. Oh, except when, by want and whim, you decide you have the right to ignore such laws. And given that you believe you have the right to break the law, as evidenced by you breaking the law, I'm not sure what the fuck you are even arguing about.

Says the man living in a third world shithole.

I think the time has come where the internet functions as a global telepathy network .. and no government should limit or restrict it in any way.....

most of the fuzz is only about entertainment ..

so .. if u cant protect your shit properly - its your own fault!
you are allowing the piracy in the first place.. and u want the government to help u?.. by restricting internet freedom?

:2 cents:

Some argumentation over here is indeed beyond pathetic.

Btw. PP is there a way to contact you?

I would like to ask something, am available on any of the contacts below.

It seems he chose poverty. He got kicked out of places that didn't like his message. Then his downward spiral started. Are you saying he should of been kept by the system he was trying to change?

Yes the rules the Communist Countries played by, had to be backed up by tanks. So you think people not having the right to vote, to protest, to complain against the Government is right?

The health care here during Communism was sure free, not much good. But it was free. Same with the schools. As for jobs, yes if you wanted to get a wage that was barely enough to feed your family on.

Since Capitalism took over in Czech living standards, wages and life have improved out of all expectations of people 30 years ago. While they were ruled by Communists backed up by tanks. The communist system kept these countries poor. They weren't before WW2. they became poor under Communism.

Compare Cuba with it's neighbor Florida.

Brazil has one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

Capitalism isn't perfect. It has a lot of flaws. Communism has more, because true Communism cant exist. It needs people at the top and they will run it as they think it should be run. Which usually means them ending up in a mansion and getting fat, while the workers get the scrapes.

Don't compare broken countries with broken countries that without the money coming from the rich ones would be in a worse state. figure out why a few people at the top drive big cars and have huge mansions and the rest walk and live in huts. It's the same problem, the people at the top look after themselves first. You dislike fat cat businessmen, yet accept fat cat Communists.

Cuba's biggest problem and reason for poverty is the US. After Castro took over the US played hard ball and the only place they could get support was the USSR. The Cuban Missile Crisis was of the US's stupidity. Don't make an enemy of people 100 miles off your shore and don't leave them with only one alternative, your then enemy.

All the US had to do after the people chose Castro was to keep buying the goods they had been buying under the previous corrupt leadership. America has a habit of backing losers, then getting upset when the winners turn their back on them. Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, S. American countries, etc. Did anyone mention Afghanistan? :(

Do you remember what you write?

You said K Marx was rich, I pointed out to you the fact that he was poor, you go off on his parents, what his opinions were....

All State power is backed up by force, the police and then the tanks...

What do you know about health care during Communist times ? Where is your evidence?

Cuba health care gets better results than USA.

Poland / Brazil when Poland was communist. Poland would be the country to live in, free education, health care, full employment and housing ... Brazil children eating out of the garbage.

NY Times about Czech...

Analysts say the Communist Party is benefiting from a regionwide disappointment over the failure of liberal parties to live up to the promises of 1989

Yes under communism I queued for bananas under capitalism I queued for a job

Kid, you know the difference between me and you? Except for my 3 digit and your 2 digit IQ? I get to spend more and more of my time with naked girls, fucking them and making money...

You get to spend more and more of your time "format shifting" what people like me do to your hard drive. Way to go kid! The best advice I can give you is to buy some oil and cleenex so that you are well equipped for your future profession :1orglaugh

Natural selection.

Says the man living in a third world shithole.

He was rich and came from a rich middle class family which allowed him the benefits of his standing in society and his education. He lost it all because of his views.

Yes but the Communist ones seem more likely to use them and shoot people.

I live in a country ruined by communism, was treated in hospitals built under communism, you live and get health care where?

And the US has a better life expectancy than N. Korea. so your point is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy Go find a communist country in the top 30. In fact over all it shows in communist countries people have a pretty poor life expectancy.

In Czech where I can talk of from experience people lined up for bananas once a year at Xmas, for bread all the time. If they saw a van pull up outside a shop, they stopped work and got in the line, without knowing what was being delivered. So what has made Poland a better place to live in today than under the Communists, backed by tanks on the street?

The number of factories that have gone there and opened up. Factories run by Capitalists. Same goes for Hungary and Czech. If Poland and Eastern Europe was such a great place to live Explain this.

Iron Curtain.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ublic_2007.jpg

Berlin Wall

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...linermauer.jpg

People were willing to risk death to get out.

And the Czechs and you have the opportunity to change the Government. Or even change the system. Yes a few old people who were in the party or benefited from the party are wishing it would all come back. The chances of the Communist getting re elected are about as high as you going to live in China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, Vietnam. Short list so shouldn't take you long to work out where to live.

The problem is under Capitalism you're a failure for some reason. Maybe because your Socialist Government spent more than the Capitalist could earn, so borrowed the country into debt. Maybe because all those with a job "the workers" won't take the living standards of the people of Poland under Communism. Do you think full employment is possible at $30,000 average a year. Maybe because the Capitalists don't want your sorry ass. Maybe because the system that kept you in a job, is the system you want to bring down. Maybe because they simply don't want an idiot infecting other workers with his stupid ideas, which was Marx problems.

Your problem is simple, delusion. In the real world not enough people will vote in a system where instead of earning $30,000 they will end up earning $10,000. don't nit pick the figures you know exactly what I mean. If you don't your a bigger moron than I thought.

And that's the problem. The vast majority of the workers reject your idiocy. If they didn't they wouldn't risk death on the high seas trying to get out of the places you admire.

Cuba http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift

http://www.miamibeach411.com/ee/imag...-boat-lift.jpg

And they still risk their lives to get out of Cuba and away from your deluded dream.

How deluded are you?

Yes a family living off an income of 10 times the average will ensure their children go to the best schools, get the best teachers and do all they can to ensure their children come out with the best education. It's cultural.

Sometimes these cultures are not just related to earnings. Often they're related to Nationality and background. Marks and Spencers was started by a man working all the hours he had to make his shop work. This has been repeated time and time again. Immigrants from certain countries will work very very hard to make sure their children rise above them, Jews from Eastern Europe, Greek Cypriots, Indian, Pakistani and Chinese, immigrants. Here we have a flourishing Vietnamese community who at the moment are first generation working in markets, second will rise to a better level.

They work for their goals. Under Communism the only goal worth working for was being a top Part Official. They got the big cars, houses, best schools, etc. The workers were paid to turn up and be there. They had no fear of losing their jobs. Full employment was a right, remember?

In Cuba a doctor lives on the same level as a road sweeper. Great reason to get an education, work hard, take on extra responsibility. :upsidedow

And that's why your dream is a delusion. It never has, never will and never can work.

I've become a bit more Austrian in my thinking over the past year. Funny how that works. :thumbsup

His health care, AFAIK, was created by socialism. You know, that thing which had to bail out capitalism?

What it shows is that poor countries have lower life expectancy, which is a no-brainer. As is the fact that poor countries, or countries with gross inequality, tend to be where Communism flourishes. So it's no surprise that Communist countries have lower life expectancy.

The real scandal is how low the richest country on the planet is; below Cuba, a country that has been crippled by decades of persecution by the USA.

Its sad that your brain is so poor that it can only afford "Says the man living in a 3rd world shit hole"
Let me rub it in your face some more:

Your ideal in life is to copy my life style to your hard drive instead of doing it for real and making $$$. You are too much of a loser to film your own content AND make money fucking hot women so you are reduced to stealing videos of content producers life style and jerking off to it in your moms house.

Natural selection is when a guy living in a 3rd world shit hole makes money living your dream while you live in the richest country in the world and cant make a buck doing what I do. I can understand your envy towards people who create content and make money from it. Its like walking down the road and key-ing a ferrari ... how sad that with all the great technological wonders and wonderful living conditions in your country at your disposal the best you can do is aspire to be a professional masturbator.

You see my point about natural selection? I do not need to be in a great country like yours, and I do not need to steal videos of other people fucking, nor do I feel the need to blame the rich for being "greedy"...blaming others for what you can't do is a common human fallacy it usually affects the lazy shits and the stupid.

100 greedy bastards:pimp