So here we are. Youtube launches and explodes in early 2004. Pornotube.com launched in late 2004 i think much to the total and complete shock and disgust of the adult biz, in spite of the built in affiliate model. Pornhub, redtube.com et al, launch shortly after. Everyone insists it all can't work and that their traffic is crap, they can't succeed... 8 years later, same discussion continues... a discussion that's still clearly wrong on every single level.
:2 cents:

Tubes generate 1000s of paysite sales a day. The tubes made porn a lot more mainstream. A lot more people are watching porn, there is more porn traffic than there ever was before.
Who cares that 100,000 people watch your video for free to generate just a few joins. Without the tubes only a small fraction of those people would have known about your paysite.
It's really a matter of adapt or die. Smart people are generating tons of sales from tube. The whining people in this thread failed to adapt and now other (smarter) people are getting the sales they used to make.

The numbers appear to tell a different story than what you suggest.

On 1 million impressions I will make around 30 sales at least on average. On 1 million impressions from tubes such as Pornhub from what I gather it's common to make 1-3 sales on a pay site.

There are only so many potential customers out there. You say that they are bringing it to more people but that doesn't make much sense. Why would they not have been able to find porn before simply by typing a few keywords into Google? For the most part it's the same pool of people we would have had before anyway.

Now let's say there are 500 million potential qualified customers out there which we will simplify to one impression each to make this easier. Do a little math.

A) 500,000,000 / 1,000,000 impressions * 30 sales = 1,500 sales
B) 500,000,000 / 1,000,000 impressions * 3 sales = 150 sales

Where would you prefer to send your surfers to to make the most money. A or B?

And again PornHub isn't going from rural village to rural village hooking people up to the internet, handing them a business card, and telling them "The internet is loaded with porn, you should try it sometime. Come to PornHub.com!" with a wink. :1orglaugh Almost all of these people would already know there is porn on the internet and would know to use a search engine. Fabian isn't a magician who can magically make new porn surfers appear out of thin air. These surfers were already there. Think about it for a bit.

If you gave me $10 for every $2 I gave you then I would succeed too and you would fail. On the whole in simple terms this is basically what happened. They took while most of the industry gave. Except in our case much of that money simply vanished. Destroyed. Much like what would happen to the local pizza industry if one or two local pizza stores starting giving out free pies in massive quantities for an extended period of time.

Look you might like and do business with some of these people. Maybe they bought you drinks and all that but it doesn't take someone with an MBA to see what common sense easily reveals. Just as you can look around downtown Detroit and realize you aren't in Beverly Hills. It's the same with the adult industry in 2012 versus 2002. And it didn't happen because there weren't enough PornHubs, my friend. :upsidedow

I shouldn't post so late. My math was off by 10. Fixed above. But it does not change the point. You'd be far better off hoping those surfers come to my site rather than pornhub. Even after paying me 50%. Numbers do not lie nor do they have any agenda. You will be far poorer when everything converts at 1 sale per 1 million impressions on tubes like PornHub and that's all that is left. Don't kid yourself.

Good anwers to all this post. The important here its the tubes its a great way to show people of other part of the work your content. Easy. its about brand name. Hard to built but posibble. Lets continue showing some samples to the visitors, not the full movie, just a preview to show will be sure to enter into your paysite.

The first three posts are amazing.

With the names of the clients and the sites you shoot for this is useless advice. I fully understand why you can't give it. However let's assume it's Manwin and the site Brazzers. Or similar. They own a lot of the top Tubes and getting huge swathes of trafficfrom other people in the business.

So are they just taking the sales from the people that are closing and are they taking all of them or are some migrating to the free model?

Good short term, crap for the long term.

Agreed. I wrote an article on B&B about The Moving Market. Here is the opening paragraph on that.

When they stop buying because the free option is better, you have even more reasons to increase traffic. Increasing it by offering more free content. Is like slowly dying by taking small doses of poison. However it's a road once started on it's very hard to get off.

That was never the problem with Tubes. Sites can sell memberships off Tubes sites. It's the ratios.

Every day for many reasons some people stop buying porn. They move to the free model as it's it's better for them. The lowest hanging fruit fall from the tree. When they are gone, the problem stays and hits the next level up. And so on it keeps going. How long before Manwin get to feel the pinch? Without access to their figures no one but a few know.

TUBES suck and whoever invented them needs to be shot! They started out by stealing content and got away with it.

Your numbers are way off, let me break it down.

With unique content - remember there's a difference between exclusive and unique...

after a million views and a CTR of 2% and a conversion ratio of 1-300 you can expect roughly 65 sales.

you don't think met art with views in the HUNDREDS of millions is just killing it? Pornpros ( one very smart company ) is blasting passionhd everywhere, why is that? Here's why:

Tens, maybe hundreds of millions of views after only a few months. Everyone is out to emulate MA, Who's the leader? PP. Why is that? See above.

There's one company that had YP on lockdown for years with tens of videos each with tens of millions of views. Apply the metrics above which are conservative. Sick numbers.

Youporn a year ago was like xpics back then. Easy. I know guys that'll say their favorite BAND is The Tubes because of YP.


Look at casting and orgasm, dude built up 5k members in a flash. Now he's probably triple that! Smart guy, everyone bitched him about about his domains and in the background he nailed it.


In this lesson we covered the numbers. In the next we'll cover shady competitors that bump your ratings down to kick you off the top spots that rotate around.

Is this what the old ynot was about? People helping each other...? I wasn't around back then but thats what i heard.

Seriously, this is priceless insight. Take it or leave it.





On 1 million impressions I will make around 30 sales at least on average. On 1 million impressions from tubes such as Pornhub from what I gather it's common to make 1-3 sales on a pay site.

There are only so many potential customers out there. You say that they are bringing it to more people but that doesn't make much sense. Why would they not have been able to find porn before simply by typing a few keywords into Google? For the most part it's the same pool of people we would have had before anyway.

Now let's say there are 500 million potential qualified customers out there which we will simplify to one impression each to make this easier. Do a little math.

A) 500,000,000 / 1,000,000 impressions * 30 sales = 1,500 sales
B) 500,000,000 / 1,000,000 impressions * 3 sales = 150 sales

Where would you prefer to send your surfers to to make the most money. A or B?

And again PornHub isn't going from rural village to rural village hooking people up to the internet, handing them a business card, and telling them "The internet is loaded with porn, you should try it sometime. Come to PornHub.com!" with a wink. :1orglaugh Almost all of these people would already know there is porn on the internet and would know to use a search engine. Fabian isn't a magician who can magically make new porn surfers appear out of thin air. These surfers were already there. Think about it for a bit.[/QUOTE]

Tubes are the major game in town. It's not a decision now of going with a method of promoting that will convert 1-1000 viewers or 1-10,000 viewers. The former is slowly dying.

I fully agree with the rest of the your post. If you produce something 1,000 others can't you have an edge. In terms of costs the odds on anyone having the skills to produce something unique and has mass appeal is slim. not as slim as someone having the money to produce something that's unique and has mass appeal. If you have the money, getting the people is easy.

Radical Bucks put up a thread asking for very good content. Madalton showed a very good clip. now the discussion is, has RB the money. I personally know 2 people as friends who can shoot the content Madalton shot ad can name a few more. If the client has the money.

You're doing 1:300 on a paysite with 2% ctr on tubes like Youporn? All I can say is that isn't anything near what other people report. It's usually more like 0.5 - 1% ctr and 1:1500 - 1:5000. The ctr in particular is usually garbage even when adding the type ins generated.

Exclusive and unique content will help but if there are 30,000 full scene videos on the same tube from your competitors in the same niche your content will really need to stand out for you not to feel that. And even so I bet if you kept submitting 10 full scene videos a day your ctr won't stay at 2% and your conversion ratio won't be 1:300 for very long. :upsidedow

Most people that complain about tubes just don't know how to take advantage of them. People that run tubes and/or paysites (and smart affiliates) know that tubes can generate a lots and lots of sales.

Also for paysite owners the tubes are a perfect way to reach potential customers. They don't have to give away 65% of their income or high PPS amounts anymore to get traffic. It's a lot easier and cheaper to give away some free full movies to generate traffic.

Nothing changed in the amount of people that pay for porn. More people see free porn, but the total amount of people that join paysites every day is higher than it was 10 years ago. Who cares about ratios. As long as you can get the same amount of joins at the same or less cost there is no problem.

It is EASY to get ctr of 1+ from tubes with the right ads. And ratios below 1:1000 is very possible too with the right sites. Just be creative. There are lots of people that do it.

Dude don't throw an upside down fucking face at me. Here you have a guy breaking it down and you're going off heresy. I have 300 posts in 10 years here and half our in this thread. Why would i make stuff up. Is it for my sig?


Like i said take it or leave it. :thumbsup

Producing that level of content takes money or/and a lot of skills. The problem is few had either. They had a kick ass digital camera, minimal lighting skills, a naked girl and little else.

Comparing traffic that clicks a banner and goes to one site as a guide for how well Tubes work is covering up the truth or dumb. It is as you and others say, down to the number of page views it takes to get one to click a banner that really matters.

If, for instance, 1-300 come to your tour and 10 viewed the movie then 1 clicked the banner. The ratio is 1-3,000. If it was 100 viewed to 1 clicked, the real ratio is 1-30,000. So 29,999 got a free video and never paid. The more you feed the beast the bigger it grows. Spot on signupdamnit.

Paul, it isn't about matching budgets. Very few people in the business are creative. Everyone copies everyone else. Now the glam look is in and everyone is going for depth of field and blown out backgrounds.

And yet, look at the views on this. Everyone is trying to copy MA and meanwhile PP commissions or whatever some couple to go for it in some a ghetto valley hotel room and kills it. But it's not pretty and doesn't have a nice background...

http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.ph...key=1472879328

Look at those numbers. Liars figure but figures don't lie.

Search any fat tube for most views over lifetime and you'll see tons of videos like this. Produced for what.. NOTHING... Money has nothing to do with it.

Brother...I totally disagree with that. If what you say is true, then as the original post said: Why is our industry on life support?

I know most guys that are left...and from our conversations, I can assure you that they are not making more sales now than 10 years ago. They aren't making more money than they were even ONE year ago because every year their old rebills are less and less as well.

The evidence (in case common sense doesn't tell you) is all around you. Companies folding. People losing their jobs. Affiliates leaving in droves.

None of that is the sign of a healthy industry.

It is insane to have entire members areas ripped and given away for free to draw traffic for pre-paid ad spots. It's unprecedented and if it continues we will see more and more of the same thing happening to our business.

If everything is just great and wonderful then somebody please tell me where all these super successful people are? And why is the overall health of the industry so bad right now?

Or as Tom Crusie said: SHOW ME THE MONEY! :1orglaugh

I see your point 30513652 views on a free site = people paying for it. :upsidedow :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Money has everything to do with it. :thumbsup

Robbie. Konda may be right, 10 years ago this was a much smaller industry. It's a ridiculous argument though. What matters is are more people buying porn today than they were yesterday?

Konda has joined my club of living in the past. :thumbsup

That was a joke, I live for today and fondly remember the good old days when people bought enough porn to allow me to retire.

The money is still there, but it goes to different people now. People that have adapted. I know plenty of programs and affiliates that do very very well.
A lot more people watch online porn than 10 years ago, and more money is being spend on online porn now than 10 years ago. It just ends up in different pockets.

Stop quoting 10 years ago. Live in the present. It's this months and next that will pay the bills.

Too many are living in the past here. :1orglaugh

I've never had a tube even attempt to license any of our exclusive content. Only steal them and play them for THEIR benefit :2 cents:



Those that attempt to steal from us get dealt with accordingly

hahah look who's talking

I am telling there are plenty of people spending and plenty of people making money right NOW (more than those good old days you guys are talking about). The people that complain and whine that 'times are bad' and 'things were better in the past' are the ones that failed to adapt and now complain they are not making any money and that times are bad.

It might be hard to believe for those people, and most are not willing to listen and will come up with the same arguments over and over.

This industry is not dying. It is growing. More and more people are watching porn every single day. If you don't know how to make money out of this you simply are not smart enough to take advantage of this. Those are the people that are stuck in the past...

they buy from people like me and all other content providers. probably no one had the idea of approaching exclusive paysite owners yet to BUY the content. they rather have you submit shorter videos in exchange for an affiliate link.

do you do that?

Exactly. Here we are 8 years later and take a look around you.

Forget the discussions, look at the state of the industry. That's what 8 years of this has done.

Tubes are the new traffic source, things have changed, I get it. I submit to them too (clips). But the number of sales you get from them now is just a fraction of what the numbers were before they existed. This is my point. I can't even believe that has to be debated. Really makes me wonder what some of you were wasting your time on back then, because it seems you have no real reference to base your sales on.

To someone who has no idea what real sales are, I'm sure tubes are the best thing since sliced bread. But if you do know, I'm just surprised you can be in favor of them as if they are a positive step for the industry.

Either way, Pandora's box is open. Only new laws or changes to existing ones will close it.

They just have Filipinos steal it and upload it. No reason to ask. They buy what they can buy and steal what they can't.

It's no secret many big tubes pay Filipinos to steal and upload videos, just as programs pay them to steal GF content and build sites with it. My worker has told me all about what his friends are doing for some of the biggest companies in the business. They have dedicated content thieves / uploaders and that is their only job.

If you are waiting on politicians to save your business, than you might as well concede defeat and don the paper hat.

:2 cents:

I don't think anyone is waiting on that, but that's the only thing that can close Pandora's box.

However, I honestly believe the government is allowing us to destroy ourselves, and we're doing a great job at it. No regulation needed. They can just sit back and let us do what we do best.

Another stupid thread made by someone not realizing that there still a over abundance of sites being launched ie. http://www.6bot.com

Yeah, government regulation always works in business, ROFL!

Why people want the government up in their kitchen is beyond me.

It sounds like a bunch of porn guys who do not want to pay for RemoveYourContent type of services hoping that the laws will scare criminals into behaving on the cheap.

Not gonna happen.

:2 cents:

:2 cents::2 cents: Thats the best way of putting it

old timers keep on whining, also those shows come across to me as old timers gatherings who still want to feel like their 'good old days'. Dinosaurs. Quit whining and go to work.

The main thing that changed is simple, more money in fewer hands :2 cents:

When it comes to just pay sites I think it's less money in fewer hands whereas previously we had more money in more hands. It's just that those fewer hands now have a greater percentage of the pie than before.

:2 cents::2 cents: adapt or die the sky isnt falling, ratios are not higher, everything is a ok :error

This debate again?


Paysite sales ARE NOT dead. They are alive and kicking. If you have trouble selling your paysite... get back to the drawing board and tweak your marketing!

How can we still be talking about this in 2012 ?

It's just strange to me that you would only do 700 sales lifetime from YouPorn if you were able to convert it at 1:300, 2% ctr with the expectation that the conversions would hold as you scaled it. You're leaving a lot of money on the table if what you have been saying here is true.

LOL I wonder what stuff will look like in 2022 :1orglaugh the net never stays the same and a leech/parasite business model like the tubes is bound to die from the same disease mainstream porn died from : over dilution...

Soooooooooooo many people will open tubes and lockers and pirate boards that even tubes and lockers will become unprofitable. Kim.com will be crying for the "good old days" just like the porn site owners were crying about 2002 :1orglaugh

It will become so ridiculously hard to make money with tubes, because the dilution may not happen by new tube numbers but also by "tube wars" where tubes go in to a content dumping war with each other. ..

I can see the business model now LOL the will give away free porn (full membership areas of course) with this they will give away 3 years free membership on some dating site, with this they will also give away 30 min free with some web cam company and with this you will get a free years supply of penis pills :1orglaugh and all in hopes of upselling them some hosting 5 years down the road :1orglaugh conversions rates will be something people will stop talking about because its too depressing and means nothing any more...