Links pulled.
Oh wait -
There is no money in porn.
Oh wait -
Your funds are in motion.
Oh wait -
Sales are great!
Oh wait -
Nevermind.

He has something that he's scared people will copy and the people he explained it to still couldn't copy him. :1orglaugh

When someone like ThePornTubeGuy sees youtube and realises a porn version would make money. The snowball starts rolling down the hill it gathers speed and size and picks up millions of surfers. Surfers who (A) never bought porn, (B) occasionally bought porn and (C) always bought porn. And converted many of (B) to (A) and many of (C) into (B). He did well, others suffered.

As more copied him, because it's not hard to copy. The main stay of porn was devastated. Those few making a nice living out of them think it's a great way to make money. Those buying ad space on sites with no adult verification that works love it to death.

The majority are looking at a declining income and wondering what to do next.



Orgasms.xxx is nice romantic sex, could do with some better lighting to set a better mood.

casting.xxx needs a talker with personality watch Ben Dover to see how it should be done. I have some better ideas for shooting this, if you're interested.

It's not just that it doesn't convert but also that it has a horrible ctr (often you get one small text link and whatever watermark you have which only makes this worse). The ctr is the real killer and it only compounds with the usual poor conversion rate. Thus the 1,000,000 video impressions to make one to three sales.

So in a month maybe a tube like Youporn will give you 1- 3 sales and 1,000,000 impressions. But now what is the opportunity cost of those 1,000,000 impressions where you gave out a full scene? What negative effect will it have on other marketing campaigns?

If you were previously doing 50 affiliate sales a day from your affiliate program with say 100 direct sales a day and you start blanketing these tubes with full scenes making for say 50,000,000 video impressions per month at a .75% ctr and a conversion rate 1:3,000 then:

50,000,000 * .0075 = 375 000 raw hits to your site per month from tubes
375,000 / 3000 = 125 sales from tubes in one month.
= 4.1 sales a day from the tubes

At first let's say the effect on your affiliate and direct sales is negligible. Let's just say for every month you do this affiliate and direct sales will decrease by 4% (compounding).

Month 0:

Tube sales - 0
Affiliate sales - 1500
Direct sales - 3000

Total sales - 4500

Month 1:

Tube sales - 125
Affiliate sales - 1440
Direct sales - 2880

Total sales - 4445

Month 2:

Tube sales - 125
Affiliate sales - 1382
Direct sales - 2765

Total Sales - 4272


Month 3:

Tube sales - 125
Affiliate sales - 1327
Direct sales - 2654

Total Sales - 4106

....And look at that. You're actually LOSING sales by giving out all that content. Sure you're gaining some tube sales but it's having a negative effect on your Direct and Affiliate sales. Even taking into account the affiliate's cut you are still losing. This is because there is an opportunity cost involved in giving out all that content freely. Namely in our example for every month you give out all that content for free (and it builds more and more) your Direct and Affiliate sales decrease 4%.

You can play around with the numbers and say make it a 1% decrease and a Tube ctr of 1% with a conversion rate of 1:2,000 and the same thing would happen and you will lose money. Mathematically this will always be true as long as the tube $/impression is less than what your direct and affiliate sales are bringing in and as long as the tube campaign has a negative impact (which is almost guaranteed if you are giving out full scenes or nearly so). These numbers also do not take into account that as you give out more content on the tube those ctr and conversion rates should aslo get worse. To do it properly you should also degrade both of those numbers too by a certain percentage. Say 3%. IOW, you'll see diminishing returns from the tube campaign as well.

There's even a big difference between a tube such as Pornhub and a legal tube an affiliate might have. With your average so-called legal tube the affiliate usually pushes your site fairly hard with a couple banners and links leading to your site in addition to any watermarks. Naturally that means a much higher ctr than on a tube where you only get a small text link and your watermark.

Shhh! JT, people here think that tube traffic doesn't convert. You are ruining a very entertaining conversation :1orglaugh Also, they don't believe a lot of the videos are uploaded by the sponsors themselves. Come on, don't dissapoint them and tell them that tubes loose money and youporn was sold because it was loosing too much money :1orglaugh We are making a workshop in miami on our sponsored video program, hope to see you there

Numbers are wrong, you have no idea what 50M views of great content will do to your direct sales... not talking hundreds of sales, thousands ;) But obviously, who is going to believe me. Those that are raking in the sales, keep their mouth shut (exept JT) because they don't want more competition ranking their videos in the top.

Come to Xbiz miami, we will bring some numbers (without divulging which sponsors)

They say when you hit a guy and he smiles back at you only then do you know he is hurt. :upsidedow

Sure it's easy to profit off of such a model when you are stealing everyone else's content and destroying the businesses of others. It's a different story when it is your content which is being devalued and where you are losing direct and affiliate sales for it. People will kiss your ass because you have money but I guarantee at least 9/10 reading this know there is a lot of truth to what has been said.

For that exact reason, we run a managed tube campaign for any publisher wanting to make a success of the tube traffic. Its very easy to get it wrong!

Show some numbers here then. What's the ctr and average conversion rate? Not just some Cherry picked numbers but the real ones most people see. I've seen many posts here over time and it's always at least 1:1000 (usually 1:2000 or more). That's not very bad actually but the real killer is usually the ctr which is horrible. Even when one tries to account for increased type ins.

I need to shout from the roof tops, i'm building another YouPorn here at PornTube and can only do that with the best tube specific edited content!

The bold part tells the truth.

50m views - 2,000 sales maybe. 1-2500 will buy a membership if you've got great content. Which is the "Catch 22" answer when the stats show you don't get 2,000 sign ups. "Well it's not the right content."

Still the ad revenue is good and the producer of the great content doesn't get a slice of that.

Yes today we shout how well we're doing selling to one person in 2,500. Stupid is as stupid posts.

And that's going to turn out another sale every 2,500 views?

Seriously are these guys thinking before they post or just a couple of kids who just post for Manwin?

So I looked on Pornhub at the front page.

Yes in 3 years this video sent 6 sales to the producer. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

As usual I fucked up and got it all wrong. 50,000,000 / 2,000 sales = 1-25,000 views. Great going Pornhub. :thumbsup

absolutely

Based on what I've heard 50,000,000 views is more like 150 to 250 sales.

1,000,000 views
1% ctr
1:2000 conversion

1,000,000 * .01 / 2000 = 5 sales * 50 = 250 sales

I haven't seen many claim a good ctr from tubes littered with full scenes.

Whether a business fails or not depends on many things, mostly the people running it, and the same is with any online business too. If you know what you're doing then you'll be fine.

Basing what I do on my sig links and join date is stupid, those sig links are all quick hour or less projects that I wanted to test sig link SEO at the time and I like the affiliate referral payout from the sponsors in my sig, not because I promote them the most... I've been around longer than my join date too, I just didn't know that I'm not considered in the adult industry until I joined GFY.. :Oh crap

People here can back me up that I know what the fuck I'm doing with nearly 20,000 blogs and that Ive helped many get started making money with blogs.

Here's a random pic of my closet, money is littering my house, not to mention my bank accts.:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aghrZ32lae...0902110013.jpg

No, we're wrong here. It's the path to riches for a content owner. That's why my local car dealerships have all started giving away free vehicles to anyone who asks. It drives up the demand for new cars causing new car sales and dealer profit to skyrocket. :upsidedow

Sorry it just seemed that you were new to the business based on everything you were showing (domains, ICQ, referral links, join date). I didn't intend it as an insult or anything.

The primary thing a business depends on is it's product(s) and the demand and costs for the said product(s). Which is the issue.

Finally Paul Markham... the guy who has never had successful paysites, traffic sites/traffic or an affiliate program is here to explain everything to everyone.

I expect nothing but great things from this thread now.

All I will say is this... A few years back, when youporn was first allowing a few webmasters to submit content with banners/descriptions under the video, I saw someones stats and it was unreal. At a time when everyone was bitching about "free content" and how tube traffic was complete garbage and unmonetizable.....a well known webmaster in the industry was submitting content for his amateur site and doing extremely well with conversions. On top of that, all his videos were watermarked and everyone was blown away at how many people were seeking out his content/paysites just from that.

Tube sites are nothing different than what link lists, top lists, tgps, mgps etc were. They are where the traffic goes to find free content. How you utilize that, if you do or not, or if you can do it successfully depends entirely on you and your own business savvy, knowledge of your niche, your market, your users and website marketing in general. Many are quietly doing very very well. Most are loudly doing very very bad. That has always been the case and the next time a shift happens from tubes to something else or some other technology, those doing well today are going to be the new ones bitching about the new thing killing the industry.

Sorry man, I fill my sig with random links like that because I dont know what else to do with it..

I think Paul's just getting on my nerves :upsidedow

That's alright. We all get on each other's nerves here. :1orglaugh Have a good weekend.

You heard correctly. Please keep thinking that! :1orglaugh

With most of the 2,000 sites we had in our program in YouPorn, and its the same today with the hundreds we now manage in PornTube, if you receive 1,000 click throughs from the under video promo banners you are given on the tubes, you will also receive around 2,000 direct type ins. These are 2,000 non affiliated direct visitors to your site. This is generated from the users of the tubes that like your video they just whacked off too, but have no time to visit your site right then. However, they will write down the name of your site on a note pad, or scrap of paper. The next time they go online, or see the scrap of paper, they direct type it in their browser, or go via google. This traffic tends to convert better too.

Another factor you should consider is continuity with the tubes. Having a continual presence on the tubes with a steady stream of clips gives confidence to the users in many different forms. The user knows you really do produce great content as they regularly see edits from your full scenes for free. After time, they also see that you have a significant amount of content. They begin to rely on your tube edits to fulfil their needs.This is when you start building your brand from with-in the tubes. Not everyone will buy a membership that uses the tubes, but the day they are ready to buy, they are more likely to buy from a brand they have been consuming for free on the tubes.

Also, the sales ratio of tube visitors to your site, this is pretty much down to you as the site owner. If you are not actively A/B testing landing pages/tours/sign-up pages, and hope that you got it right first time, then of course, you will never optimise this traffic. Some publishers who got it right were EXGF.com (1:76 from YouPorn), ExtremeCFNM (1:120) VivThomas (1:280). The ones that didn't help themselves would be far in excess of 1:2,500 but blame the tubes for their failure.

Finally, tube users who buy memberships, do rebill. My average for Casting (launched July '11) and Orgasms (August '11) is over 4 months, and this is getting bigger each month.

Yes, it was his stats i was referring to actually,... that was quite a few years ago now. It was totally unreal and the typins were crazy.

Exackery. All these "tubes convert!" wallers seem to think our argument is that tube surfers don't buy - of course they fucking do, due to sheer volume - we fucking know that ffs. Ctr is fucking atrocious though.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh


I'm not disputing the type-ins btw, but just lofl

What do you mean by "tries to account for increased type ins"? Tracking type-ins is critical.

:1orglaugh

I remember sitting around a kitchen table with the other YouPorn guys, Jan 2008 and literally every 2 minutes, we got a sale notification through for "another" exgf sale. It was INSANE

2009 actually

I just needed to quote this because it makes me feel sane again. Thank you.

Here's a post from Robbie where he claims a tube campaign on Porn Hub netted over 5 million video views but only 15,279 direct clicks with 8 sales and a conversion rate of 1:1909-

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18106576&postcount=33

That's a ctr of 0.3%! Even if we triple that to allow for type-ins due to people "writing down urls on a piece of paper" as ThePornTubeGuy says that is still a ctr of less than 1%.

Later in the same thread Nautilus speaks of ctr also around .3% - .5%.
https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18110050&postcount=79

In contrast as Robbie mentioned in his old post even TGPs typically did much better as far as ctr and I know legal tubes routinely see 3-5% ctr even now.

16 sales (doubling the amount he saw due to type-ins) from 5 million impressions is a little over 3 sales per 1 million impressions which is the numbers I was using.


Legal tube

1,000,000 impressions
5% ctr
conversion ratio: 1:1500

1,000,000 * .05 / 1500 = 33 sales

Pornhub

1,000,000 impressions
1% ctr
conversion ratio: 1:2000

1,000,000 * .01 / 2000 = 5 sales

Huge difference there. It seems if you are encouraging your surfers to visit tubes like Porn Hub or Youporn at the expense of your own direct marketing and your affiliates then you are basically just throwing money away. There's an opportunity cost involved in giving away content.

Just like how a car dealer may give one or two cars away every now and then for marketing purposes in order to get some publicity. However at the same time he isn't going to give away 50%-100% of his inventory either because he isn't stupid. He knows that will reduce his net sales. There isn't a car dealership in the world doing that and for good reason.

signupdamnit instead of theorizing all day why things wont work why not figure out who it's working for and why and go from there?

you are like a miniature paul markham arguing all day why something wont work not based upon experience but what you THINK is so.

the market, technology and customer has changed. study that and adapt. or die.

Just because a video gets a ton of views doesn't mean that it's good and should make sales every time.. :2 cents:

nothing is going to change in porn for the foreseeable future.

if it really bothers you that much get out of intangibles, open an amazon account and sell blue widgets, until home fabrication printers makes everyone is sharing those for free as well.

I'm doing fine. I'm just not doing as well as I could because of the idiocy in the industry where people are giving everything away. Guys like "The PornTubeGuy" are just blowing smoke up people's asses to help their own bottom line. He wants you to upload all your content to him and he'll tell you anything to get you to do it. He wants to grow his own tubes using your content.

I know as an affiliate the difference between a sponsor who has all their content available all over the place versus one who tries hard to keep it scarce. The difference is as much as three to five times the ratios. It becomes very difficult to sell such as a sponsor. That's experience not speculation. I've given out numbers as well with other's experiences not just a bunch of bullshit.

Guys are never going to stop thinking with their dicks, no matter what. If something is given away for free in terms of porn, there will always be some kind of premium/HD/unlimited/unique/etc version to upsell to. If not, then there are advertisers to make money off of.

As long as a guy has a penis and money then he's a potential porn customer. (Women buy too :winkwink: )

No matter the platform: tubes/blogs/tgp/SEO/textlinks, the biggest thing is to not give the customer what they want and make your site nice and full of content, you need to give them a sample without getting them off and without boring them and at the same time educating them what they can get with a membership and make it seem fucking awesome like something they have never seen for free.. Marketing is different than making a nice looking porn page.

Do you really think his experience is going to be that much different from the average paysite's experience though? Most people seem to agree that tubes like PornHub usually show shitty ctr. There are a few here who claim otherwise but it would seem the exception. It's just common sense though. First they give everything away free. Second it's typically just one shitty link that you get with a small watermark. I don't see how you even dispute it.

signupdamnit That was exactly what I saw on Pornhub...which is why I finally took the vids down.

And they were vids that I put together specifically for Pornhub with great hardcore action.

One of them I even filmed for it and was a long video of stripping and then getting fucked by a fuck machine. I actually filmed, edited, and produced it just to go up on Pornhub...it's not even in our members area.

Meanwhile I had people making good sales with freakin' hosted galleries and blogs during that same time period. I've never seen such poor performance in my own or anyone else's affiliate work as that Pornhub experiment was.

People sure did seem to love the free vids on Pornhub though. :( That was evident in the views the vids got. Even had people tweeting Claudia Marie about how they loved her vids on Pornhub lol

I'm happy for all the guys on here that are making big money...but I'm pretty sure the only ones who are, are the owners of the big tube sites and their webcam and dating program partners.

well them promote sponsors and sites not over the tubes. how is this rocket science? even fucking dvtimes has it figured out man.

funny how the same time you started to upload clips you sales also increased.

the obvious reason is from type ins and branding but you are so blinded by the banner clicks to even notice. even nathan pointed this out before.

I get what you're saying, but what if you're on a porn tube and want a niche specific video of midget porn. Then that midget video has a midget paysite watermark and banner ad to the full membership site. That would work better at getting sales than a video called 'Hot blonde playing with her pussy' because that is a broad niche that everyone is going to look at and have no interest in paying for a full membership to a generic porn site or any site in general since those video are for regular free porn surfers, even if the video is awesome.
Not to mention all of the targeted SE video search traffic coming in and helps a lot with niches, so the content does make a difference when promoting tubes in this way :2 cents: