I second your math, both this and other estimations seem to be surprisingly accurate.

To make sure I checked stats for our Redtube campaign - we submitted about 25 full length videos to them about a couple of years ago to test waters. Those videos accumulated about 50 000 000 views combined which brought us about 100 signups. Which falls right in the middle of your estimation range - 1 signup per 500 000 views. Those members seem to rebill 1 time on average, so for the sake of estimation you can say we make about $1 per 10000 tube views gross.

Stats for our Youporn campaign look no different, just more views and more signups because we submitted more videos to them. What's interesting is that CTR does not seem to depend on anything but the novelty of this particular site or type of content for this particular tube. When there's at least half decent representation available (such as at youporn and redtube which both provide banners and not merely a text link that is barely visible), it starts at 1% and holds this value for 6 months max, then it starts to fall to about 0.5% average where it freezes. We tried different approaches at youporn - different length of clips, different editions and it doesn't seem to matter. Surfers see through any edition and only click at 1% when it is relatively new, and then 0.5% when it is relatively old.

We tried tube campaigns for two other programs where we're partners at and results were exactly the same. All other owners that I know and trust their opinions also reported very close results.

The bottomline is that while tubes can certainly produce some sales to paysites, those sales are by no means impressive for the vast majority of programs, and cannot support our industry in it's proper state with hundreds if not thousands of active programs producing all types of content for all niches. Tubes can even produce some moderately succesful campaigns for a selected few programs/paysites that fit into the momentum perfectly with the particular type of content/niches that are hot topic currently among tube surfers, but that's not going to last long - as the novelty wears off their results will start getting increasingly more disappointing, and they can not compensate their decline in sales with tube traffic through other sources because there are no other sources, tubes are eating our industry alive, both paysites and webmasters who're loosing traffic to tubes.

And I do not even take into account stolen content, which only makes matters worse. All tubes without exeption post stolen clips, the difference is only that some post more of them and some less.

At driving traffic I would agree they are great.

Why do you assume they have great editors?

Interesting stats, thanks for sharing. However, I do not see where they match what you say about tube traffic - with 3 000 000 views, 1% CTR and 1/900 ratio you should be getting about 30-35 signips a day, not 120. You seem to grossly underestimate other traffic sources, at least by half - and even that is only if you get 1 type in sale for every 1 direct sale, which I find highly unlikely.

Anyway, your program and sites seem to be one of those exceptions that simply fit the current trend perfectly, which cannot work for the vast majority of programs and paysites out there. Let's see what your results will be by the end of the year - I'm pretty sure when the novelty of your content wears off, when surfers are tired of seeing your clips everywhere, you'll see the same industry average 1/2000 ratio and 0.5% CTR we're all seeing at tubes. By that time you'll average 10-15 signups/day from tube traffic (less if your clips would not be pulling 3 000 000 views/day anymore), plus whatever type in sales are there, don't know how many but certainly not 70-80/day as your current estimation seem to suggest.

Hey Paul, You just hit the nail right on the head.

Do you think that the main problem for declining memberships to pay sites might be that the tens of millions of users visiting tube sites every day actually get to separate the wheat from the chaff? The users have a huge buffet of content to consume each and every day. The days of producing masses of cheap "point and shoot" content may just be over.

I have my guys at Ruseful shoot full scenes, not feature length movies (although they are soon to release their first movie). These full scenes are between 16-26 minutes long and have a beginning, middle and ending. They shoot like this for a few reasons:

It is very easy to edit tube specific clips if the actual scene has been shot for this purpose. i.e. beginning, middle and end. They actually plan the shooting of each scene to make sure they have enough of each segment for the tube edit.

Each full scene is different, has a different mini story/scenario and is fulfilling for the end user.

Each individual scene and tube specific edited clip is THE best possible representation of the brand.

I had 5 years worth of data from running YouPorn that told me this is what was needed.


If/when the tube user eventually becomes a member, they see the full scenes of the 10-12 minute edited clips that are freely on the tubes. They are downloadable in every format and they get to view/download 100-200 photos from the sets of each scene in 4000 pixels per pic. They also get an in depth write up of each scene, what went into the shooting of the scene, how the performers felt with each other, if there was real chemistry between them etc.

I think the more effort you put into the production and editing, pays off dividends.

The guide I wrote (click the link in my signature) helps with the editing and other aspects like watermarking, tagging etc. However, you quite rightly state, you can't make a sponge if your main ingredient is sawdust. The tube users are far too well informed in this day and age to be able to serve them crap and expect them to eat it! Time to change your main ingredient.

Do tell! Why indeed those dumb fucks do not believe sponsors are uploading videos themselves, there's just no logical explanation. All sponsors upload everything themselves because they're getting fantastic branding and shitload of type ins from the great free advertising at pornhub.com tube website.

http://i.imgur.com/XR9GM.jpg

We upload alot of our videos too at pornhub, like this one. 20 mins full length clip without even a link back because who needs it anyway, there are 3-4 times more type in sales than direct sales, so why bother. We get ton of sales now and most certainly left the tough times behind, thank you pornhub. Make sure you have enough servers because now we're going to upload our entire member area to you to get even more sales.

Haters gonna hate, but we all know the truth. It's all sponsor uploaded of course.

I third your findings. we went with one major Tube site, owned by AEBN. They put a link under the video worded like this. "See more of Paul Markham Teens."

The traffic was awesome. 10,000s of clicks a day via our CCbill coded link. On our stats program we saw the duration of 99% of the traffic. It went straight back.

So before any clown comes up with the crap content excuse.

I'm assuming they had seen the sample movie and wanted to "See more of Paul Markham Teens.". And the moment they realised it meant paying, they went straight back. They liked the sample, didn't bother to see what the site offered and no intentions of paying. As we added more content, the clicks on the links fell. They started to realise it was to a place that costs money.

This will probably happen to all submitters. because the more 7-10 minute clips they add to their library of free porn. The less reason there is to buy a membership. Ruseful wants 7-10 minute clips, with a cum shot or orgasm. So adding 1 clip a week, will in a year put 52 reasons not to join, in a library of the uploader. Put up more and you have more reasons not to join.

Of course there is the methodology of "If I have enough traffic I can sell anything." Which is very true in the Porn Tube site model.

Creating a trailor that really sells a membership, of 7 minutes out of a 20 minute point and shoot movie without structure. Is bloody hard. Few can shoot a decent sample for their tours, they just hobble together a few of the sex clips from the content inside.

A trailer is designed to intrigue, lure and sell. A porn scene is designed to satisfy.

That 1% is just for the click throughs from the promo banners we get on the tubes. As my post stated, that only accounts for around 30% of our traffic, with 70% coming direct, so that is where the other 2% comes from, meaning my math correct that an additional 70-85 sign ups come in direct. So 3% = around 110-120 new sign ups a day in the past 7 days

Edited your typo, mate.

Here you go, these are the sales for Saturday. This does not include re bills and is for CCBill only, not Epoch or Segpay. As I state, we only promote on the tubes, no where else.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7209821/screenshot_331.jpg

Imagine making content so bad people don't even want to pirate it!

:(

You will also notice the low % of actual affiliate sales here. only $665.07 of a gross new sales of $4661.91

This would amount to the affiliates being responsible for $1300 in sales which is around 28% of sales. So, 72% are direct type ins un affiliated sales.

I reiterate, we ONLY promote on the tubes.

The problem with most online pornographers is they are stuck for the cash, skills, experience or for some mentality to create anything other than what they do. Exceptions are there, they are exceptions.

To shoot a movie with a trailor and scene in mind takes some planning, skills, experience and a budget to do the job right. Still I say loading loads of 7-10 minute clips to a free Tube is giving possible customers more reasons not to buy than to buy.

So most would be wasting their time and the best will eventually be giving away reasons not to buy.

I'm biased. I made my money in a time when people had to pay for porn. Before the Internet made it possible to reach everyone with free porn. :upsidedow

It's OK Paul, there's still time.

You managed to install Google Analytics yet?

:D

You have to know the history of online porn to understand why it is, as it is. 1998 it started to take off. The vast majority had the ability to put something up online, some had the ability to launch a site. Driving traffic was easy, there were so few competitors, online porn was a novelty and still conversion ratios from surfers to buyers was crap.

Because the two things the vast majority lacked was money to hire a professional shooter or the skills to shoot something worth buying. The cry then was the online audience didn't want the quality porn offline was selling them, they wanted the stuff the online was able to produce. As the budgets and abilities of some rose in the quality stakes, magically the surfers changed their desires. :1orglaugh

Still does online employ the best shooters as a norm?

No, which is why there are so few producing great content and so many producing point and shoot scenes with no forethought.

These people will tell you if they market it right and get all the tools right, they can sell anything. Which is total bullshit. There example is Macdonalds selling crap burgers. Yes a company with professional marketing people, a multi million dollar marketing budget and a laboratory of people refining the product can sell a crap burger. That doesn't mean some Ma & Pa or small team operation can sell crap porn when everyone is giving it away. Macdonalds last time I went past wasn't giving away free burgers to advertise Chinese Take Aways. :1orglaugh

The consumer market for porn is possibly every male with hair on his balls, unless he shaves. The buyers market is far far smaller. It's an educated audience, don't take my word for it. Everyone was telling us the surfers are more educated than they were. People living in the past????

A male who buys porn has often been looking at porn for anything over 4 years. He's learned to differentiate wheat from chaff. He might "hit it" or even jerk off to it. but he won't buy unless he's given more powerful reasons than most do.

So the culture was and still is, "If you send enough traffic, you can sell anything."

Ruseful, with the stats you boast I wouldn't bother marketing for porn submitters. I would just go out there, sort the wheat from the chaff. Make a deal to market them and do the whole thing yourself and get a nice juicy commission for your troubles. You obviously know how to crack it so why let others in on your valuable traffic.

Once you prove this to a site owner.

You can be on a very generous deal. Why give it away if it's this easy?

To prove you horribly and amusingly wrong. Again.

Ruseful.

I see what you're trying to do here. Trying to get tons of free content on your Tube sites from the sponsors who frequent here. That's not the best approach if your figures are right. Here's a much better and more professional one.

There are 100s of offline DVD companies who are struggling, due to online porn. They never got how to market online. In the past they were scared that coming online would hurt their offline business. Today they have little of that left.

However they do have vast libraries of back catalogue movies of all descriptions. Some in sure fire convertible niches and ranging across all niches. Contact them and do a deal or even buy the online license for their content. Choose what you know will work, edit it the way you know works, promote it the way you know works and get all the traffic coming to your sites.

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/porntube.jpg

No need to share anything of your powerful resource that you say is doing so well. With stats like these, imagine how much better things would be with more quality content and the added benefit of more content on the Tube and no need to share everything. Of course you can also share it, but no need to.

insert planeoverhead.jpg

Sorry, I think I mistook you for someone that has a sense of humor. Didn't mean to offend you.

I do think though that, even though I know what you were saying about your feeling for what works or doesn't, my years of experience have told me not to only go by what I personally like. In fact, oftentimes my experience has shown that I shouldn't "think with my dick" but should actually just listen to customers and figure out what they want. If that approach works for you and you don't have to test then more power to you. If you don't want to use tubes for traffic then good for you too. I agree that no one should ever rely on just one traffic source or they are just setting themselves up for disaster.

Your brand seems based on one model/personality. What happens if or when she no longer wants to be content? (A reasonable question so please don't take it the wrong way)

btw... I wouldn't say I respect you in a post if I didn't mean it so no need to get defensive.

Cocaine and steroids can effect people like that.
:(

yeah paul those stats show they are definitely doing something wrong. if they would only listen to you maybe it would only take them half a day to make what do you do in a month instead of a full day!

Not having to test, compare or measure results properly is just plain stupid.
Regardless of how slim the chance is that you are wrong, is worth testing. It might just make you even more money.

Testing and optimizing should be high priority in any business.

Definitely :thumbsup

Except I mentioned that but apparently we're supposed to already know what sells: :Oh crap

I don't see why people feel they have to make nasty personal attacks when discussing this stuff. :(

I still think based on my own experiences and the numbers I see from others the average paysite can expect about a 1% ctr, 1:2000-1:2500 conversions raw, and under 250,000 tube views per day since the views are said to taper off with time. This would equate to approximately one sale every day or two depending on the exact numbers.

I don't doubt Ruseful's honesty although I do question whether his claim that 95% of the traffic hitting his site is due to tubes is true as he seems to believe it is. I also am skeptical that he has received no special treatment whatsoever given his connection to some of these tube operators. Likewise I don't doubt Robbie or Nautilus's numbers or honesty either. I know neither of them tend to bullshit about things and they are straight shooters.

I would love to see more experiences from other independent pay site owners. Especially those who do not have a stake in promoting the tube model or encouraging other content owners to freely supply their full content to these tube sites. Is there anyone here who was struggling previously who saw this thread and decided to submit some videos and is seeing an amazing return from it with 5-10 sales a day already? Let's hear some experiences. Just make sure to click the first link in my sig at least before you go overboard submitting all your content without running a test. I wouldn't want to be responsible for ruining your business should it not work out after you submit half your member's area and your affiliate sales decline 50% within the next three months. :)

except for a few exceptions you are only going to hear from the ones who failed. do you think if someone has found a winning formula they are going to share it and increase their competition and advantage in a very competitive market?

in one sense adult is becoming more like mainstream where it is accepted you don't out your marketing techniques and outing others can get you banned on certain boards.

Maybe but Ruseful didn't mind sharing. Neither did Warchild. At the same time there is going to be a little pressure not to say something which goes against the so-called big boys of adult like Manwin. Some people who have not done well might be intimidated into not speaking for fear of some sort of retaliation.

Please though in the interests of science share a bit. :)

Hi Paul, Ruseful are just telling you how they are doing it right. Of course they are a big supporter of the tubes, they are owned by me and I was one of the main guys that launched YouPorn and subsequently sold to Manwin last year. I am now part of the exceptional team running PornTube, 4Tube and Fux.

A lot of those DVD companies you talk about already approached me over the years and I already bought their better dvd's. Thats why I know how much of a hassle it is for that whole process to work. It boils down to getting them edited by above standard editors who understand the tube user. Its a major hassle and very time consuming, and its all with older, normally burnt content. For those dvd guys though, I recommend they speak to Stan at Adult Centro, and have their content put online at the Adult Market Place. Thats where a lot of people are buying content right now ;)

For me, and the tubes I am now part of now, (in my signature), its far better for me to educate the content owners via the guide I wrote and from publicising our CPP here on GFY and also at the trade shows where I speak on panels, than go buy dvd's and have that huge overhead of getting them tube ready. The PornTube Content Publishing Platform Guide is the first of its type and has been received really well. When content owners reach out to us, we do actually take the time to help them. We would look at what they have, if they have tried uploading to the tubes before and if so, where they failed. We take a lot into account, and I have vast experiance in this area with the 2,000 sites we handled in the YouPorn program.

If appropriate, we will manage a tube campaign for them, but this involves serious commitment from their side. They need to commit to a certain amount of clips. These need to be tube specific clips and I will have the editors who edit the clips for DaneJones and Lesbea look over these. We will help them with their watermarks, with their promo tools. We then have our contacts at all of the other major tubes prepare for the individual campaign. This involves having them correctly schedule the release of the clips, in certain order, on certain days. We also optimise the banners that you receive under the video players. We help title the clips, suggest keywords and make sure the clips are correctly tagged. This is normally a 60 day process that is provided by PornTube COMPLETELY FREE.

What do we gain? What do all the tubes gain that are contributing to the campaign we are running? A new Content Publisher who we can rely on getting the best possible tube specific longer fulfilling clips to our tubes. Everyone wins.

But as your previous post stated, the content obviously has to be up to a certain standard.

I'm digging this new vocabulary of giving everything away! LOL!

New word for me "Content Publisher"
Translation: The guy doing all the work to give it away for free to bring in traffic to a tube site and make them a fortune.

Heh-heh-heh :)

Paul, I have to say Ruseful came on here and gave us stats and backed it all up. Yes their stuff is good (and so is yours) but what they are doing is real.

I imagine it, like so many things in life, is like a Mexican taco stand. If it has one bulb, and a grimy shitty glass covering, and horrid beige psuedo-meat, you do not buy the tacos. If it mimics in any way decent hygiene and pleasing appearance you may indeed buy from it it despite the fact that it is STILL A MEXICAN TACO STAND.

A more succinct way to say the above is: better products sell better

I'm not sure that will ever change, and I can't see how we pin that on the tubes. It pre-dates them by 11,000 years.

However, the other adage is: Location, Location, Location

Tubes are now the primary point of entry. If you are still selling great soup at the train station you are not getting the right customers for your great soup and you'll eventually fail as a business. You have to move to where the folks who want great soup are, and you have to do it before you lose all your capital.

This is what I'm taking away. You need good product and you need to be where the buyers are. The other day I saw a vending machine selling bottled water right next to a water fountain. Despite the free water, people were still buying branded water. Another day I took the New Jersey Turnpike (toll), it was filled with cars though there are several ways to go around it. I don't know, it happens.

If I could pinpoint why some do and some don't sell, I'd be tooooooootally rich.

I'll tell you, though, I make mediocre content, if even that. So I'll test the top 10 for a few months and let you know.

These tube guys are SMART. The way they write, easily, quickly, and convincingly, without extraneous emotion - the way they execute, their results. Look at Dave at Pimproll. Everyone said, "how can you pay 9.5m for a domain". There are numerous examples of their acumen.

I think they have the foresight to know that if all the content producers die off they'll have nothing. Porn users don't like old shit. They need new content. Porn.com has 95,000 clips. Youporn has 150,000. xHamster has 300,000. Xvideos has an astonishing 850,000 clips. There are maybe 2m clips out there. 75% of them probably blow chunks. 1% might be really good. Nobody can control all 100 million jack offs a day. Like Robbie, they go where their dong tells them. The tube game winners will be the ones who make sure their content guys are happy, and not just a few privileged creators. They are vulnerable to disruption and loyalty is destroyed by a mouse-click. They need good content. Need.

Quite possibly the best post I have read for a very long time.

We started with 1/10,000 to 1/25,000 on the major tubes when we started working them. We split tested the clips, the creatives, the text, every single aspect of each ad zone etc. Now we are consistently under 1/1000 on most, though not all. Do I blame the tube if the ratios are not averaging better? No. We are still trying to find the "recipe" for success on those that don't do as well and feel it is our job to find what works because it is our content and our sites we are trying to sell.

There are some clips that do well across the board. There are some tubes that have great communities to tap into as well. There are some that we still do crappy numbers on although even 1/2500 is still a vast improvement over 1/25000... :winkwink:

Our average retention on those is over 4 months. The type ins are even better for retention. We still juggle the high ctr/shitty conversions vs low ctr/highly branded strong conversions balls, trying always to get better ctr/great conversions - that is where tracking and A/B testing are so critical to success.

Do we have other traffic that converts way better? Sure, we are under 1/30 on the majority of review sites - but no where near the volume of traffic and therefore much less brand exposure so there is always a trade off.

Why doubt Ruseful? He has been very straightforward and it isn't like he is sucking up to anyone for affiliates, and he has been clear that his sites are merit based just like everyone else that submits as well.

Everyone is out there wondering "where are all the whale affiliates?" The major tubes are obviously where the traffic is so what is so bad about working with them as affiliates? I just don't get why people, especially people that used tgps as partners in its heydey, have an issue - people could just as easily jerk off to that content for free as well. (and still do... tgps still send sign ups too last time I looked)

The reason I never had the "they stole my content" issue with tubes is because every tube we ever saw our content on took it down with proper - meaning polite too - notice and were willing to work with us to avoid future issues. That is not "sucking up". That is called doing business.

Many sites are closing cause people are lazy or don't have a clue about what they are doing. For years selling memberships was easy. Now it's not that easy anymore.

Downloading the porntube guide can help you but only if you are willing to work for it. The golden era is not there anymore so we got to step up a little and work for it.

I don't doubt the stats mentioned, I know my brother is working the tubes and he and his company are doing a damn fine job at it.

A top expert tests to hone his results. A guy without a clue, is groping around in the dark. Testing will never replace knowledge.

Exactly what I thought. ThePornTubeGuy's reply was basically BS. Taking 90% of what online porn producer shoot and teaching them to edit. Is like teaching a kid how to cook a sponge using sawdust. Most online porn producers simply don't have the raw goods. They can only cut a 20 minute scene in half and give a Tube more free porn. Teaching them to edit, take time out to edit and submit to a Tube on a promise of traffic. :upsidedow

The problem with the offline DVD people is they rarely talk deals. They want hard facts. Walk onto a stand at a show an offer them $1,000 a scene for the Internet only rights on content over say 4 years old and a load will snap your hand off. In fact some will give someone 5 scenes for that money. But it requires money up front. A lot know what brokering via content providers makes. In fact offer them online only content in exchange for offline and I got a 1 of mine to 5 of theirs deal. I did that with all the hardcore scenes we shot.

Teaching an in house editor is a lot easier, still it requires money.

I was looking at their stats and reading what they say they're doing. It would seem money isn't the problem. not as cheap as getting others to edit and submit for free though. I turned away from that avenue when I saw their contract.

As I said I don't doubt Ruseful's honesty. I only doubt whether his interpretation of his stats is accurate. Saying that over 95% of the traffic hitting his sites is due to tube campaigns is an extraordinary claim as is a 3% ctr and 1:833 ratio from such tube sites which are loaded with pirated full scenes from every niche.

From the second link in my sig http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportu...ost#Evaluation At times there can be a hidden cost for a given action. If the cost seems negligible at first it might create the illusion that there is no cost to an action which appears to generate a gain. BUT there may actually be a great cost there which you are not considering and which will not become apparent until later down the road. This is a part of Business and Economics 101. I learned it in freshman year.

The first link in my sig breaks this all down ina different way but I will summarize it again. As you give out more content eiter full scene or near full scene the natural consequence is that less people who view the content will end up buying it. (Does anyone dispute this so far?)

There are two primary concerns related to this:

1. Direct marketing effect (Non tube related). As your content becomes more saturated on the large tubes this should decrease your ctr and worsen your conversion ratios to some degree. The effect will likely compound as more of your content is given out freely and time goes on. In this way your existing non-tube campaigns now have a diminishing return. These were sales you would have had before. Now an opportunity cost.

2. Affiliate sales effect (Non tube related, those without full scenes). Just like with #1 the same thing will happen. But in addition to this many of your affiliates will likely see the worsening ctr and conversions rates and will decide to stop promoting you in favor of your competitors who now convert better for them. They gain nothing from your tube campaign. They only lose. I know usually when I see a lot of a sponsor's content all over tubes I pull links because in almost every case their conversions became much worse for me. Worse yet some of your former affiliates will likely eventually be pushed out of business and you will lose some partners. These were people who were pushing you in the past for perhaps years and some may have been fairly reliable partners. One might be tempted to say so what. "Fuck the affiliates" but you don't know what conditions are going to be like one or two years out. Maybe the tubes you rely on will decide to push other sponsors instead. Maybe they will open their own sites and kick you out. Maybe there will be a government crackdown. Maybe as affiliates disappear they become so saturated with competitors that your campaigns will do 1/10th of what they did before. Now what will you do? Submit 10-50 times the content? :upsidedow

If you are smart you will want to make sure these hidden opportunity costs do not exceed any perceived gains from your tube campaigns. Make sure you are aware of and are not underestimating the possible negative effect of throwing out a significant amount of content freely in highly visible places. Ruseful by his own admission claims he basically started with nothing for direct and affiliate sales. He says 95% of the hits to his pages are due to tubes (I find that hard to believe but he seems to really believe this). That's a very different case than an established site which does over a million dollars in sales and has a large affiliate base. :)

But you've always said testing is a waste of time and you just know if it works or not?

I'm confused about this u-turn Paulie?

Hi Paul, none of my posts contain the BS you refer too, All I have done is talk facts and looked to help those who want it. I actually have agreed with you in all your posts, specifically re the 90% who produce the sawdust. Even in my last reply to you, I finished with agreeing with you saying: But as your previous post stated, the content obviously has to be up to a certain standard.

So I don't quite know where your little outburst came from

You'll find that Ruseful is saying that he gets a 1% average CTR from his promotional banners/texts on the tubes he uploads too. The additional 2% is derived from direct type ins from the same exposure on the tubes. This is the 3% traffic he gets, NOT 3% CTR on his promotional banners.

A major factor you may be overlooking is that please don't forget, some smaller tubes (thousands of them) rip the best performing content from the main tubes each and every day, so with strategically placed watermarks, and pre rolls and post rolls on their videos, they actually get significantly more exposure than they can account for. This is a big part of the 2% that they refer too as direct type ins. Hope that clears up where the 3% comes from that they refer too.

I was saying that here 10 years ago and that's when the haters started hating. They don't like the truth. The problem is simply budgets. If you can afford it the quality content is there to be had. There are loads of offline shooters who will turn out movies of the quality of Orgasm.xxx. but not for $2,000 a scene. Anyone who wishes to question that need only hit me up on ICQ for a list of shooters.

Is a Tube site the best place to sell quality porn today? If so, the money isn't there. Or ThePornTubeGuy wouldn't be asking people who don't have the raw product to edit, to do it for free.

I have been inside a lot of websites shot by people who are lauded here. These guys are simply not good enough. They shoot hardcore dull porn that all blends into one. The scenes all start to look the same and follow the same format time after time. No comedy, no closure, no reason for the fucking, and the girls mouthing the same sound bites over and over again. No matter how clever a person is with the latest equipment, the vital skill in porn isn't camera's, lighting, etc.

It's the shooter seeing the fantasy in his head and getting the model to perform as he needs. We sell fantasy. If we can produce it.

The biggest sex organ is the brain.

It's not "I would fuck her". It's "Would she fuck me?"

I understand that. I only went ahead and put the additional type-ins he claimed and figured them in as the ctr to make things simple. One thought if type-ins are really that high as the result of a watermark then affiliates are really getting screwed though, aren't they? :upsidedow 1% actual ctr and 2% type-ins. That would mean the affiliate is getting credit for roughly 33% of the sales they actually drive assuming tracking is otherwise perfect. But I guess this is subject to what you state below when looking at numbers.

That is significant. I'm not sure whether it is a pro or con though as this means the majority of those scraper tubes will not be showing the pay site's banners or links as the original tube might. You will be fully relying on the watermark to drive type-ins or perhaps pre or post rolls should they be included somehow on these other sites.

The typical legal tube usually has two banners and a link or two in addition to the existing watermarks. Presumably the effective ctr will be 3-4 times what it would be with tube where you are relying on watermarks to drive traffic. Plus the legal tube likely has a significantly better conversion ratio due to less full scenes. This might tie in with "2. Affiliate sales effect" in my previous post.

there is some great info in here with real world experience and stats to back it up.

on the other side we have wall of text theorizing on why that can't really be possible.

educational thread for sure. in more ways than one.