Originally Posted by ThePornTubeGuy (Post 18889996)

Hi Paul, none of my posts contain the BS you refer too, All I have done is talk facts and looked to help those who want it. I actually have agreed with you in all your posts, specifically re the 90% who produce the sawdust. Even in my last reply to you, I finished with agreeing with you saying: But as your previous post stated, the content obviously has to be up to a certain standard.

So I don't quite know where your little outburst came from

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 18890016)

It's not "I would fuck her". It's "Would she fuck me?"

Originally Posted by porno jew (Post 18890050)

there is some great info in here with real world experience and stats to back it up.

on the other side we have wall of text theorizing on why that can't really be possible.

educational thread for sure. in more ways than one.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 18889971)

Testing will never replace knowledge.

Originally Posted by signupdamnit (Post 18890065)

I've seen both sides provide experiences. Thus far it has seemed about 50-50 as far as experiences go. As I said I would be curious to see what others see. Especially people who are more independent.

Originally Posted by signupdamnit (Post 18890042)

I understand that. I only went ahead and put the additional type-ins he claimed and figured them in as the ctr to make things simple. One thought if type-ins are really that high as the result of a watermark then affiliates are really getting screwed though, aren't they? :upsidedow 1% actual ctr and 2% type-ins. That would mean the affiliate is getting credit for roughly 33% of the sales they actually drive assuming tracking is otherwise perfect. But I guess this is subject to what you state below when looking at numbers.



That is significant. I'm not sure whether it is a pro or con though as this means the majority of those scraper tubes will not be showing the pay site's banners or links as the original tube might. You will be fully relying on the watermark to drive type-ins or perhaps pre or post rolls should they be included somehow on these other sites.

The typical legal tube usually has two banners and a link or two in addition to the existing watermarks. Presumably the effective ctr will be 3-4 times what it would be with tube where you are relying on watermarks to drive traffic. Plus the legal tube likely has a significantly better conversion ratio due to less full scenes. This might tie in with "2. Affiliate sales effect" in my previous post.

Originally Posted by ThePornTubeGuy (Post 18889828)

Quite possibly the best post I have read for a very long time.

Originally Posted by Trend (Post 18890219)

Off topic but ... Did you guys start out in 2002 with paysites?

Originally Posted by Three.Thousand (Post 18890093)

My testing and tracking will prove what works best. Your knowledge, will only forfeit your right to complain about falling ratios.

Originally Posted by Ruseful (Post 18890113)

Here is a screen grab from GA

Originally Posted by porno jew (Post 18890111)

if someone knows how to work the tubes, tells you exactly how to do it and shows you stats and screenshots to back it up and one still writes wall of texts on why it is not possible i guess there is no hope for some.

adapt or die in it's purest sense.

Originally Posted by ThePornTubeGuy (Post 18890249)

If you are asking me personally, then no. We started YouPorn late August 2006 and sold in May 2012. I launched my first pay site in July 2011. I own the network that has Casting.xxx and FakeAgent, Lesbea, DaneJones and Orgasms.xxx

I joined the team at Dreamstar Cash in Jan 2012 and we run PornTube, 4Tube and Fux

Originally Posted by Far-L (Post 18890298)

You can lead a webmaster to traffic but you can't make him think, or so the saying goes...

Originally Posted by signupdamnit (Post 18890339)

By all means think for yourself. Don't let someone else think for you and don't forget that little thing we call common sense. :)

Originally Posted by ThePornTubeGuy (Post 18890249)

If you are asking me personally, then no. We started YouPorn late August 2006 and sold in May 2012. I launched my first pay site in July 2011. I own the network that has Casting.xxx and FakeAgent, Lesbea, DaneJones and Orgasms.xxx

I joined the team at Dreamstar Cash in Jan 2012 and we run PornTube, 4Tube and Fux

Originally Posted by Trend (Post 18890303)

Gotcha .. I wasn't sure if you were the "owner" of Dreamstar Cash or not. For some reason I thought "Dreamstar Cash" started out with Paysites in 2002-2005-ish.

Originally Posted by signupdamnit (Post 18890357)

So Ruseful is your employee?

Originally Posted by Far-L (Post 18890354)

While not entirely Markham rant free, you have still generated the most intelligent debate/discussion on tubes here yet so kudos to you. :2 cents::thumbsup

Originally Posted by Three.Thousand (Post 18889676)

Not having to test, compare or measure results properly is just plain stupid.
Regardless of how slim the chance is that you are wrong, is worth testing. It might just make you even more money.

Testing and optimizing should be high priority in any business.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18890480)

I do test things when promoting niches that I'm not an expert at. I'm all for making an extra dollar. :)

But when it comes to the niches that I AM an expert at? I pretty much know exactly what my target audience wants. I write it, shoot it, produce it, edit it, and even shoot the still pics. Every second of the video is designed to entertain guys who love big titties.

I shoot every video with the trailer in mind. And each of our little productions has a storyline that has a definite beginning, middle, and ending.

That's why the tour sells so good.

That's what I meant about not needing to "test" what I am already really, really good at doing (giving big tit fans what they want).

Now as an affiliate...I'm always willing and able to learn what sells other niches to their potential customers.
But again...I think the guys who truly love what they produce are the experts and know exactly what their audience wants. So I defer to their knowledge.

And that's what I meant about testing and following what my cock tells me. :)

Originally Posted by Three.Thousand (Post 18890591)

No one questioned your content and skills there, but what does your knowledge say about CTA, tour CTR, text elements, colours, layouts of tours, join pages.... all that plus more needs testing, if not, you might be leaving money on the table. Every aspect of the business needs constant attention, not only the product. Optimize product, optimize selling, minimize costs, maximize profit. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by ThePornTubeGuy (Post 18883945)

Great thread and interesting views on the tubes and the sales a content owner does or does not make.

An intro on my background. My name is JT and I was a founding Partner/Director of YouPorn.com from late 2006 until we sold to Manwin in May 2011. My role was Director of Business Development and I was responsible for monetizing the traffic which we grew to 370m monthly visitors. We grew this traffic via word of mouth by giving a better user experience than your competition, we didn't buy any traffic. That great user experiance was founded primarily on the content. Without great content, the visitors to your tube disappear.

This made us launch the first ever Content Publishing Program in early 2007. We knew from our data that if we promoted the publisher of the video that the user was watching, with an affiliated banner under the video player, that a % of our free users would click through to their website. Then it was down to the sponsor to convert these visitors into paying members. Naughty America and CDGirls were the first publishers to work with us and give us licensed tube clips in return for our traffic. They both recorded in excess of 3,000 new members to their sites that month. Upon sale to Manwin, we handled over 2,000 brands in our YouPorn Content Publishing Program, and we were one of the largest affiliates on the planet.

We had huge amounts of data at our disposal regarding customer behaviour and the types of content they liked and what length of clip this needed to be. We knew that certain clips performed significantly better than others when they contained a beginning, middle and an end to the clip. We had without doubt the most revolutionary algorithms ever used on a tube which enabled us to deliver a "related" and "recommended to you" section (amongst other things) to each and every user. This enabled us to get YouPorn to over 110million daily page impressions and an average time on site per visit of just over 10 minutes. As the recent extremetech article reports, YouPorn accounts for around 2% of the daily internet traffic.

But none of this is possible without the best content. We embarked on a huge content buying spree that started in 2007 and we ended up spending millions of dollars over the years licensing all niches of content to have this edited into tube specific clips and to give this out for free to our users. Of course, we used to release some full scenes too, but mainly, tube specific clips that we had edited. We also worked closely with many of the publishers, advising them on how to edit clips, what length they should be etc etc. Of course, in 2007, we were hard pushed to get 3 min edits from our publishers. We then started pushing for 5 min edits and then 7 min edits. Now the optimum length of a clip to be giving to the tubes is 10 minutes. Those that listen to us, make bank. Look at BackRoomCastingCouch, one of the most successful pay sites ever to utilise the tube traffic. At one point, BackRoomCastingCouch was the 2nd most searched for keyword on YouPorn, and we handled over 650m searches a month!

Fast forward to today and I am doing it all over again at PornTube.com. You will not be surprised to hear that we have built THE BEST Content Publishing Platform in the market place today. We have many features such as multiple upload, upload by CSV, clip scheduler (so YOU remain in control of when your clips go live) and and in depth stats panel for you to see the stats for each individual clip. We have also released a PornTube Content Publishing Program Guide that gives you an insight into the mind of a tube user and "How to sell a membership to someone who consumes porn for free". You can download this by clicking the link in my signature.

We really are here to help you make the most of the millions of eyeballs at your disposal every day, and not just on PornTube. We have embarked on several successful tube campaigns for Content Publishers too, where we work closely with the other major tubes to make sure you are best positioned to expose your brand to millions of users and potential new members each day. So please reach out to us for details.

Directly after the sale of YouPorn, I decided to put everything I preached into practice, so, for the record, I also own the production company Really Useful Ltd. I have the sites Orgasms.xxx (launched 7 months ago) Casting.xxx (8 months ago) DaneJones.com FakeAgent.com and Lesbea.com (all 3 months ago) with a further 6 sites currently in production, with a whole network of sites planned for 2013 onwards. All content is exclusive to my network, we shoot all content ourselves and have an in house team of some of the best editors in the game. We have even just hired someone who's sole purpose is to upload our content to the tubes, all day, every day.

90% of my traffic is tube related (click thrus and the "golden" direct type ins) and I am doing on average 200-220 new sign ups/rebills a day and growing each month. With CCBill (main biller) I have an average transaction value of $31 USD (I do not run $1 promos) and under 0.3% CB ratio. Not surprisingly, the average length of my tube specific edited clips are 10 mins, they have a beginning, middle and an ending, and we put our newest and best content online. Quite simply, we can not shoot content quick enough to put it on the tubes for free. We are also nailing it on the VOD's too.

So, you can see that I come from both sides of the industry and have considerable experience with both. Please download the PornTube Content Publishing Platform Guide to find out more. (and to find out how you can get ALL of your traffic from PornTube affiliate link free, meaning you keep 100% of all the sales we make for you!).

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18890606)

I was the first paysite to have a tube tour. I generally try to stay ahead of the pack in innovation and ideas for marketing. Honestly though...it's way more about what you shoot and knowledge of the niche than it is about colors and layouts.

We all have seen some of the most amateur shitty looking (to us) tours outsell some of the most polished, tested, and analyzed tours.

The key is knowing what your audience is looking for. You could say I've been "testing" that all my life. :)

Originally Posted by Ruseful (Post 18890076)

http://www.youporn.com/watch/7709223...-be-porn-star/

This is a FakeAgent clip that we put on YouPorn just today. Its had 350k views already in around 18 hours, very high rated (93%) and has 6 great comments. The clip is 12 minutes 4 seconds long. Has a great pre roll, great post roll and watermarked very well, so it is easily identifiable on the tubes.

http://www.youporn.com/partner/fake-agent/2265/views/
This link will show we had over 80 videos online on YouPorn since mid January and have had around 50million views.

When that clip is ripped from Youporn by users and placed in their profiles on other tubes or ripped by the other tubes, yes, some may remove the watermark, but most do not bother removing the pre roll and post roll parts of the video, so the FakeAgent clip remains branded, and attracts direct type ins.

This traffic is GOLDEN, its affiliate free, but you can't account from where its coming from, but no complaints of course.

Originally Posted by porno jew

there is some great info in here with real world experience and stats to back it up.

on the other side we have wall of text theorizing on why that can't really be possible.

educational thread for sure. in more ways than one.

Originally Posted by signupdamnit (Post 18890065)

I've seen both sides provide experiences. Thus far it has seemed about 50-50 as far as experiences go. As I said I would be curious to see what others see. Especially people who are more independent.

Originally Posted by Far-L (Post 18890298)

You can lead a webmaster to traffic but you can't make him think, or so the saying goes...

Originally Posted by Kroy (Post 18890570)

I can confirm that the numbers Ruseful and JT (ThePornTubeGuy) offer up here are realistic, and the advice is extremely valuable.
This thread has more useful and actionable information than most anything you have read or will read on GFY or any other board if traffic and growing your brand online is your concern.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18890828)

You know what? It's been a while since I tried out Pornhub and found it sucked.

ThePornTubeGuy...I'm going to give it a shot and see if what you are saying is true. :)

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18890828)

You know what? It's been a while since I tried out Pornhub and found it sucked.

ThePornTubeGuy...I'm going to give it a shot and see if what you are saying is true. :)

Originally Posted by thehand (Post 18890615)

Please shoot me an email: tim at vivid.com

Originally Posted by ThePornTubeGuy (Post 18891205)

Hey Robbie, hit me up at jt at porntube dot com and we'll help you every step of the way with a managed tube campaign.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 18891036)

This is 10%ers content. Anyone with this type of content and the ability to copy you can do the same as you. Then they can post their results and I will not be in the least surprised if they match or even exceed yours.

I'm not theorising. I'm backing up what Ruseful is saying and offering a few ideas. The education is clear. If you have the right content you can duplicate these results. Do you have this level content to hand?

Originally Posted by Jel (Post 18891328)

having a nightmare registering/uploading at pornhub, youporn, tube8, xtube, spankwire etc - who can help me with the issues I'm having? Sent a ticket a few days ago but aside from 'what format/size (correct)' and 'change browser' I'm getting no joy.

porntube went smooth as fuck btw.

Originally Posted by VenusBlogger (Post 18891348)

I don't know why most TUBES are not affiliate friendly...

They only accept uploads from SPONSORS? That sucks. Yeah I know in some of them you can upload with a watermark, but no link... that sucks.

ThePornTubeGuy, por que no aceptas subidas de afiliados? Como se supone que vamos a hacer dinero si tu solo aceptas subidas de sponsors?

That way you concentrate and monopolize the adult business only for the BIG GUYS..

How are average affiliates supposed to make some bucks with tubes? Really wondering.

Originally Posted by VenusBlogger (Post 18891348)

I don't know why most TUBES are not affiliate friendly...

They only accept uploads from SPONSORS? That sucks. Yeah I know in some of them you can upload with a watermark, but no link... that sucks.

ThePornTubeGuy, por que no aceptas subidas de afiliados? Como se supone que vamos a hacer dinero si tu solo aceptas subidas de sponsors?

That way you concentrate and monopolize the adult business only for the BIG GUYS..

How are average affiliates supposed to make some bucks with tubes? Really wondering.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 18890606)

I was the first paysite to have a tube tour. I generally try to stay ahead of the pack in innovation and ideas for marketing. Honestly though...it's way more about what you shoot and knowledge of the niche than it is about colors and layouts.

We all have seen some of the most amateur shitty looking (to us) tours outsell some of the most polished, tested, and analyzed tours.

The key is knowing what your audience is looking for. You could say I've been "testing" that all my life. :)

Originally Posted by Far-L (Post 18889888)

We started with 1/10,000 to 1/25,000 on the major tubes when we started working them. We split tested the clips, the creatives, the text, every single aspect of each ad zone etc. Now we are consistently under 1/1000 on most, though not all. Do I blame the tube if the ratios are not averaging better? No. We are still trying to find the "recipe" for success on those that don't do as well and feel it is our job to find what works because it is our content and our sites we are trying to sell.

There are some clips that do well across the board. There are some tubes that have great communities to tap into as well. There are some that we still do crappy numbers on although even 1/2500 is still a vast improvement over 1/25000... :winkwink:

Our average retention on those is over 4 months. The type ins are even better for retention. We still juggle the high ctr/shitty conversions vs low ctr/highly branded strong conversions balls, trying always to get better ctr/great conversions - that is where tracking and A/B testing are so critical to success.

Do we have other traffic that converts way better? Sure, we are under 1/30 on the majority of review sites - but no where near the volume of traffic and therefore much less brand exposure so there is always a trade off.

Why doubt Ruseful? He has been very straightforward and it isn't like he is sucking up to anyone for affiliates, and he has been clear that his sites are merit based just like everyone else that submits as well.

Everyone is out there wondering "where are all the whale affiliates?" The major tubes are obviously where the traffic is so what is so bad about working with them as affiliates? I just don't get why people, especially people that used tgps as partners in its heydey, have an issue - people could just as easily jerk off to that content for free as well. (and still do... tgps still send sign ups too last time I looked)

The reason I never had the "they stole my content" issue with tubes is because every tube we ever saw our content on took it down with proper - meaning polite too - notice and were willing to work with us to avoid future issues. That is not "sucking up". That is called doing business.