Yep, I've read worries about that with estrogen replacement. It really comes down to risk management.

Is a woman better off being miserable and growing a mustache and losing her femininity? Or taking the very tiny (and as yet unproven) 1 or 2 percentage points greater than other women chance of contracting breast cancer.

If you really look at women's health...the number ONE killer is heart disease. That and cancer is predominantly brought on by lifestyle in addition to genetics. Smoking, eating fatty and processed foods are FAR more dangerous than estrogen replacement. And the benefits of estrogen replacement outweigh the tiny risks involved.

It's a question of risk management. Driving your car is the most dangerous thing any of us do on a daily basis. But we make the assessment that the quality of life we have by driving instead of riding a horse is great enough to nullify the very large risk of death or injury in a car accident.

By comparison...HRT is a speck of dust next to the mountain of risk that comes from driving your car.

You have to put aside the crazy extreme stories of bodybuilder steroid abuse and use your mind to make an intelligent decision for yourself.

EDIT: By the way "natural is better"? So you don't think you should have any kind of medical help if you have a heart attack? Surgery to correct that isn't "natural".
But the way I see it...replacing your NATURAL hormones that you have lost with age isn't unnatural at all. Living beyond your 30's is the part that isn't "natural" Would you rather us return to short life spans?
Of course not.

Robbie, I've always liked you but man, you are so afraid of getting/looking old. At least it sure seems like it. You don't want to hear any possible negatives. You even got Claudia doing it too.

Its so funny Robbie all these people are willing to take XYZ pill for their depression, high cholesterol, restless leg syndrome, and every other ailment under the sun. Meanwhile the FDA and Big Pharma pumps out all these drugs, doesnt test them as long as they need to and then a year later they are recalled. Do you think its really healthy to take a pill that magically makes Cholesterol go down? Do you know the mechanism on which it works? Didn't think so....then theres testosterone that has been around for 60+ years with tons of studies and published medical articles and people are arguing the safeness of it. Its a synthesized hormone to replace hormones your body no longer produces...If you guys wanna feel like crap at 45-50 go for it. You want to look wrinkly and have loose skin, be my guest. All I know is that right now im as healthy as can be and if I can feel like this in my later years I will without a doubt go on HRT.

How old are you now taking that stuff? You guys make it sound like a miracle so why isn't everyone on it? I think you'd be hard pressed to find an average doctor recommend taking it or even would prescribe it when asked for it. There is obviously tons of money to be made getting all guys over 40 on it, so why isn't it happening? And personally, i take no medications and never have, hopefully never will. I don't even take Tylenol or Advil.

Black, I'm not on HRT or Testosterone, I've stated that 2 or 3 times in the thread so far. I have a POLYGRAPHED Natural Bodybuilding competition in August, therefore I do not touch anabolics. All you really need to do is talk to your primary about it and they will usually prescribe, it is happening you just need to open your eyes to it. I too dont take any medicine/tylenol/advil unless absolutely necessary.

Not really. I've always looked good. :)

I just started FEELING like shit when I was 39 and went to the doctor and was told why and he put me on testosterone. If he had told me I had high blood pressure I would have went on high blood pressure medicine (I don't have high blood pressure by the way). Would that have meant I was "afraid" of getting old? lol

As for Claudia Marie...what is it that I have her "doing it too"? She's 13 years younger than me and doesn't have to worry about stuff like that. I'm sure that when her body goes through changes in 15 or 20 years that her physician will diagnose it at that time and tell her what to do.

Just like everybody esle.

The stuff I'm reading about NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) like advil scares the hell out of me. I had no idea that stuff would build in your system over the years and kill you.

But yeah, I'm the same way. When I was in a car accident in 2002 I had both arms and my neck broken badly. First the doctors didn't think I'd live. Then they thought I'd be paralyzed. But after a month in ICU I got out of the hospital and went home with a hard neck brace and two full length arm braces.

They also sent me home with a bottle of pain killers and 3 months worth of prescriptions.

I threw that shit in the toilet and went to the office and had one of my employees at the office do the typing for me while I told him exactly what to do! lol

My then-partner AL4A came over from his desk and was pretty amazed too.

It hurt like hell not to take the pain medication. But in my humble opinion...pain pills and sleeping pills are the new "heroin" of modern times. And I had been around enough pro wrestlers to know how easy it is to get addicted.

Anyway, BlackCrayon...you are right about that. Don't take ANYTHING unless you have to. If my body was still pumping testosterone like it did when I was 20 years old, I wouldn't even be thinking about it. But unfortunately, as we age, it slows down production to a point where it does no good.

I didn't want to get to that point. I don't do it to be a bodybuilder or look good. I do it for my health. The looking good and feeling great part is a very nice side effect that I do admit I love! :)

Dear God! That explains it all! Anybody who wants to have a nice quality of life is a narcissist! AND they will probably commit mass murder! OMG!!!! :1orglaugh

you know, you can be slim and sexy

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kJTQW0cVWe...eco/s640/2.jpg

(and narcissistic)

So I'm gonna end up being a grandpa twink? :1orglaugh

175 mg's twice a week of T-propinate will put you at 4:1 which is perfectly legal by the las vegas fight commision. I found that interesting. Basically a decent but moderate dose a gym rat would use is legal as far as levels go.
ds

Prop has a short life and yeah you'd have to use that twice a week to keep your test levels up. And as I found out the hard way...you need to mix it half and half with grapeseed oil. Otherwise it will burn your ass up.

Actually you would want to use Prop every day or every other day to ensure the most stable blood levels and minimal estrogenic side effects. Test E or C should be done 2x per week. And Robbie if ur prop is burning you should probably try a diff lab. It should be relatively painless unless its underground lab overdosed stuff.

I don't know anything about Las Vegas fight commission rules, but testosterone is tested as far as i know by testing for presence of the plant protein its derived from in your blood.

Why are you criticizing something you know absolutely nothing about? How many people take herpes medication? How many do you know? Stats show 1 in 5 to 1 in 6 people have herpes. So just because you never stop at an intersection and think "holy shit, i'm surrounded by VD" means it's less prevalent or less common? Why doesn't everyone stop smoking if its going to kill them some day? Why do people eat like assholes only to become obese and die of easily preventable disease? Why why why? Thats the logic and reasoning of a child.

The benefits of hormone replacement therapy are absolutely not disputed in the medical community or medical journals.

Dude, I've used prop from a lot of sources. Including doctor prescribed/pharmacy bought.

It ALL burns...and gives you test fever. The grapeseed oil counteracts that. Took me some research to find that out. But yeah...on most any bodybuilder forum you'll find that prop will give you a big red hot spot where you injected and nice low grade 99 degree fever for a day, UNLESS you dilute it half/half with grapeseed oil.
It's not a big deal to do. And I love the effects of prop.

Just don't want to inject constantly. So I use a mix of tests all in one that includes propianate. But I'm not trying to be a bodybuilder or anything. Just trying to stay healthy.

Test flu is due to unstable blood levels, aka pinning not as frequently as u should. Testosterone is suspended usually in grapeseed oil as it is and if ur adding it to ur shots i hope youre filtering it and sterilizing it before hand. If youre using a test blend (sust im assuming) especially one with prop u should be hitting it every other day or every day. I have many friends on prop and none of them experience pain or test flu and they are on a lot higher doses than an HRT user 700mg+ per week

Reasons for test flu :

1. Lowered immune system
2. Bacterial infection
3. Allergy to benzyl alcohol
4. Unstable bloods (estrogen spikes)
5. High blood pressure

You dont pin your prop frequently enough and ur wasting the short esters of ur sust by only pinning 2x a week. Duno why anyone would take a test blend while on HRT, total waste. U should be on Test C or D

You missed one of the reasons for test fever:
Not using grapeseed oil when you shoot.

lol

As I said...I don't use prop by itself because I don't want to do it every day. I use a nice mixture. And I use half/half with grapeseed oil. And of course, I bought the grapeseed oil from a company that filters and sterilizes it just for that purpose.

Trust me brother...I have some good advice and lots of experience over the last decade plus.

Im not questioning it. I just have plenty of gym rat friends who are currently on prop and experience no pain and no test flu at triple your doses. Not everyone gets test flu or injection pain. Everyone is different and none of them add any oil to their shots. 100mg per ML/CC. The actual test flu u are talking about is due to a hormone imbalance...by diluting ur shot with more oil all ur doing is making it less painless, not absorbed any slower.

Oh absolutely.

But ALL those guys had test fever the FIRST time they used prop.

If you use it all the time and inject e.d. Your body will eventually get used to it.
I did a cycle of it a few years back and the guys all told me to stop being a pussy and I would get used to it. I did after a shitty couple of weeks.

But I didn't like feeling like a pin cushion. lol
So I went back to doing a blend at once a week. And then found out the secret to grapeseed oil and I've never had a problem since.

So yes, you are correct. If you want to tough it out your body will get used to it after a few weeks.

But most guys just add in the grapeseed oil. It's super cheap and a bottle lasts forever.

man you do not know the first thing about hormones do you :1orglaugh

hint: wiki testosterone

some esters have acidic properties...test flu is a direct result...notice that the multi ester sustanon or the older omnas have a much higher test flu ratio than say just cyp or enanthate...

also, depending on what you inject and how high it is in BA and what concentration your ester is (china gear is popular in the USA they like to concentrate stuff sometimes to 500-600mg/ml that causes large crystals to form) this may also attribute to inducing an immune reaction...hence diluting with sterile oil and heating breaks down the crystal and/or dilutes BA depending on whether you heat it or not when mixing

its a shame to use prop...enanthate delivers the most hormone to the receptors than any other ester...prop gains go away much easier than enanthate or cyp...no matter how disciplined you are there is always something that happens that can fuck up your cycle and you will lose more mass with prop than with enanthate...then theres the human dartboard question of injecting low concentration prop 50-100mg/ml EOD...also recovery from a self tapering ester like enanthate is much easier...

i spent too much time researching this shit LOL sorry about the long ass post haahaah

Was not expecting this "roids" thread... Thought it would be the "hemo" one...

Loving the info coming out, Great job Robbie and Crucifissio!

that's why fighters use prop. That is also why they never use ugl gear. They need too know that they can count on that ester
ds

based on ratios. 6:1 is the max.
ds

best test hands down T-400
ds

That can't be correct. Because testosterone itself is easily detected and either its allowed or prohibited/illegal. Other things like prohormones, hormones and other chemical compounds can affect levels without injecting actual test.

~~~~

NAC 467.850 Administration or use of alcohol, stimulants, drugs or injections; urinalysis or chemical tests; disciplinary action. (NRS 467.030)

1. The administration of or use of any:
(a) Alcohol;
(b) Stimulant; or
(c) Drug or injection that has not been approved by the Commission, including, but not limited to, the drugs or injections listed in subsection 2, in any part of the body, either before or during a contest or exhibition, to or by any unarmed combatant, is prohibited.

2. The following types of drugs, injections or stimulants are prohibited pursuant to subsection 1:
(a) Afrinol or any other product that is pharmaceutically similar to Afrinol.
(b) Co-Tylenol or any other product that is pharmaceutically similar to Co-Tylenol.
(c) A product containing an antihistamine and a decongestant.
(d) A decongestant other than a decongestant listed in subsection 4.
(e) Any over-the-counter drug for colds, coughs or sinuses other than those drugs listed in subsection 4. This paragraph includes, but is not limited to, Ephedrine, Phenylpropanolamine, and Mahuang and derivatives of Mahuang.
(f) Any drug identified on the most current edition of the Prohibited List published by the World Anti-Doping Agency, which is hereby adopted by reference. The most current edition of the Prohibited List may be obtained, free of charge, at the Internet address www.wada-ama.org.

3. The following types of drugs or injections are not prohibited pursuant to subsection 1, but their use is discouraged by the Commission:
(a) Aspirin and products containing aspirin.
(b) Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories.

4. The following types of drugs or injections are approved by the Commission:
(a) Antacids, such as Maalox.
(b) Antibiotics, antifungals or antivirals that have been prescribed by a physician.
(c) Antidiarrheals, such as Imodium, Kaopectate or Pepto-Bismol.
(d) Antihistamines for colds or allergies, such as Bromphen, Brompheniramine, Chlorpheniramine Maleate, Chlor-Trimeton, Dimetane, Hismal, PBZ, Seldane, Tavist-1 or Teldrin.
(e) Antinauseants, such as Dramamine or Tigan.
(f) Antipyretics, such as Tylenol.
(g) Antitussives, such as Robitussin, if the antitussive does not contain codeine.
(h) Antiulcer products, such as Carafate, Pepcid, Reglan, Tagamet or Zantac.
(i) Asthma products in aerosol form, such as Brethine, Metaproterenol (Alupent) or Salbutamol (Albuterol, Proventil or Ventolin).
(j) Asthma products in oral form, such as Aminophylline, Cromolyn, Nasalide or Vanceril.
(k) Ear products, such as Auralgan, Cerumenex, Cortisporin, Debrox or Vosol.
(l) Hemorrhoid products, such as Anusol-HC, Preparation H or Nupercainal.
(m) Laxatives, such as Correctol, Doxidan, Dulcolax, Efferyllium, Ex-Lax, Metamucil, Modane or Milk of Magnesia.
(n) Nasal products, such as AYR Saline, HuMist Saline, Ocean or Salinex.
(o) The following decongestants:
(1) Afrin;
(2) Oxymetazoline HCL Nasal Spray; or
(3) Any other decongestant that is pharmaceutically similar to a decongestant listed in subparagraph (1) or (2).

5. An unarmed combatant shall submit to a urinalysis or chemical test if the Commission or a representative of the Commission directs him or her to do so.

6. A licensee who violates any provision of this section is subject to disciplinary action by the Commission. In addition to any other disciplinary action by the Commission, if an unarmed combatant who won or drew a contest or exhibition is found to have violated the provisions of this section, the Commission may, in its sole discretion, change the result of that contest or exhibition to a no decision.
[Athletic Comm’n, § 54, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 12-2-97; R058-05, 12-29-2005; R090-07, 12-4-2007; R003-09, 10-27-2009)


~~~~

World Anti Doping Agency:

S1. ANABOLIC AGENTS
Anabolic agents are prohibited.
1. Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS)
..... long list provided

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Wo...st_2011_EN.pdf

Just sayin what I know...
ds

Hey, I guess roids really are "trendy" :)

Definably, you should see the facebook pages of guys dieing in their 20's from over dosing and how cool everyone thinks they are. It's the new rockstar and drug.

http://www.motifake.com/image/demoti...1258035645.jpg

Sorry, haven't had time to read this thread, but the title made me wonder something...can someone please tell me why hemorrhoids are trendy?

I think they are gross, and I hear they can be painful. :2 cents:

:stoned

ADG

I think we've asked over and over for you to show us these facebook pages. :)

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone dying from a steroid "overdose" lol It's like somebody dying from a marijuana "overdose"
It just doesn't exist.

But please show us these facebook pages you keep talking about. I'd like to see them and find out if it's true or just bullshit.

Matter of fact I just googled it up. Looks like the biggest drug killer is prescription drugs (pain killers and sleeping pills) Kills more people than all other drugs combined (including cocaine and heroin which are tiny percentages).
Don't see even ONE death that can be 100% attributed to steroids. But let's don't let that stop you.

And again...like a psycho...you won't stop. That wiki you linked to says over and over and over again that bad things happen with HIGH DOSAGES.

Guess what Einstein...high dosages of ANYTHING will cause you problems. Aspirin? Yes. Alcohol? Hell yes. Advil? Double yes. Pain killers? DEATH. Sleeping Pills? DEATH. Fatty Food? DEATH

How fucking dumb are you?

what is your dose?

200 ml a week

what about anti-estrogens like arimidex?


what about hcg?

I've never used them. My guess is because my dose is so low. I've never used bodybuilder mega-doses.

But no doctor has ever suggested them to me and I've never had any estrogen related problems. I just feel good. :)

But it's your modesty that really blows people away.

:1orglaugh

It ain't braggin' if it's true. heh-heh

And impressing a bunch of fat wannabe webmasters (not talking about you) isn't of much concern to me anyway. I'm just telling it like it is.

Psychiatric effects

A 2005 review in CNS Drugs determined that "significant psychiatric symptoms including aggression and violence, mania, and less frequently psychosis and suicide have been associated with steroid abuse. Long-term steroid abusers may develop symptoms of dependence and withdrawal on discontinuation of AAS".[59] High concentrations of AAS, comparable to those likely sustained by many recreational AAS users, produce apoptotic effects on neurons, raising the specter of possibly irreversible neuropsychiatric toxicity. Recreational AAS use appears to be associated with a range of potentially prolonged psychiatric effects, including dependence syndromes, mood disorders, and progression to other forms of substance abuse, but the prevalence and severity of these various effects remains poorly understood.[60] There is no evidence that steroid dependence develops from therapeutic use of anabolic steroids to treat medical disorders, but instances of AAS dependence have been reported among weightlifters and bodybuilders who chronically administered supraphysiologic doses.[61] Mood disturbances (e.g. depression, [hypo-]mania, psychotic features) are likely to be dose- and drug-dependent, but AAS dependence or withdrawal effects seem to occur only in a small number of AAS users.[62]

Large-scale long-term studies of psychiatric effects on AAS users are not currently available.[60] In 2003, the first naturalistic long-term study on ten users, seven of which having completed the study, found a high incidence of mood disorders and substance abuse, but few clinically relevant changes in physiological parameters or laboratory measures were noted throughout the study, and these changes were not clearly related to periods of reported AAS use.[63] A 13-month study, which was published in 2006 and which involved 320 body builders and athletes suggests that the wide range of psychiatric side-effects induced by the use of AAS is correlated to the severity of abuse.[64]


Aggression and hypomania

From the mid-1980s onward, the popular press has been reporting "roid rage" as a side-effect of AAS (the term being a play on the more established phenomenon of road rage).[65]

A 2005 review determined that some, but not all, randomized controlled studies have found that anabolic steroid use correlates with hypomania and increased aggressiveness, but pointed out that attempts to determine whether AAS use triggers violent behaviour have failed, primarily because of high rates of non-participation.[66] A 2008 study on a nationally representative sample of young adult males in the United States found an association between lifetime and past-year self-reported anabolic-androgenic steroid use and involvement in violent acts. Compared with individuals that did not use steroids, young adult males that used anabolic-androgenic steroids reported greater involvement in violent behaviors even after controlling for the effects of key demographic variables, previous violent behavior, and polydrug use.[67] A 1996 review examining the blind studies available at that time also found that these had demonstrated a link between aggression and steroid use, but pointed out that with estimates of over one million past or current steroid users in the United States at that time, an extremely small percentage of those using steroids appear to have experienced mental disturbance severe enough to result in clinical treatments or medical case reports.[68]

A 1996 randomized controlled trial, which involved 43 men, did not find an increase in the occurrence of angry behavior during 10 weeks of administration of testosterone enanthate at 600 mg/week, but this study screened out subjects that had previously abused steroids or had any psychiatric antecedents.[37][69] A trial conducted in 2000 using testosterone cypionate at 600 mg/week found that treatment significantly increased manic scores on the YMRS, and aggressive responses on several scales. The drug response was highly variable. However: 84% of subjects exhibited minimal psychiatric effects, 12% became mildly hypomanic, and 4% (2 subjects) became markedly hypomanic. The mechanism of these variable reactions could not be explained by demographic, psychological, laboratory, or physiological measures.[70]

A 2006 study of two pairs of identical twins, in which one twin used anabolic steroids and the other did not, found that in both cases the steroid-using twin exhibited high levels of aggressiveness, hostility, anxiety, and paranoid ideation not found in the "control" twin.[71] A small-scale study of 10 AAS users found that cluster B personality disorders were confounding factors for aggression.[72]

Robbie, u should be on both adex and HCG...to me it seems like you self diagonsed yourself with low test via a blood test and just administer it to yourself. No respecting doctor wouldnt give you those ancillaries, even though your dose is 200mg. Especially the HCG...

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

but in the very next sentence they go ahead and claim:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh pray tell, how does testosterone cause receptor dependency? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh is that why all the body builders raid pharmacies for testosterone 24/7? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh
when was the last time you got mugged by a body builder? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

here lies the problem with your "research"...none has been done :1orglaugh

next time you want to post something about AAS please keep in mind:
1) you do not know shit
2) doctors don't know shit...they had nowhere to learn this shit from...modern medicine does not cover recreational AAS use...modern medicine only comes in contact with the morons who abuse it and have half a brain anyway...