SZNY, if I would go around promoting who I give money to for fighting piracy, people like DWB or Mike will start trying to discredit those people because they think they are being bribed or such by Manwin.

So I leave it up to those organizations to do PR on it or not, I am not doing this for the publicity, I'm doing it to make more money by selling our premium products.

As I said above... taking out their revenue stream is causing them a headache for day until they have a new one, there are too many out there. Although I agree its a nice thing to annoy them with... and I am sure we will at some point be able to make sure paypal nolonger supports these sites...

Rip out their hosting and hardware from under their feet and they get into real problems.

I agree, sending DMCA's is not fighting piracy, its a part of selling digital content.

Actually, I care quite a bit about those who have been a destructive force to the industry. And I never said "turn them off." I said if you cared about piracy you would change how they operate, meaning how you allow any Tom, JoJo, or Vlad to upload anything they want with nothing to verify who they are. Note I did not say verify their content.

Just one simple step of not allowing free emails would cut out a lot of of them. Another step would be to only allow uploader accounts to be created from the site email the videos belong to, or the program email it comes from. DMCA doesn't say you can't do that.



Again, who's asking you to turn them off?

And yes, I don't care if GFY or every other site is sued into oblivion. That is not my problem. We all lived before user submitted content, we will all live after it should it go away or be forced to exist under stricter laws.

No, I do not own the copyright to the image I posted in this thread, but I'm also not profiting from it.


Fingerprinting is not the only solution. As I've said before, my new content doesn't get pirated hardly at all. We came up with our own methods and they seem to be working for over a year.

Furthermore, I don't trust anything the FSC has their useless hands in. They don't exactly have a track record of being successful at... anything.

Yea, I'm here for the high-fives. Got me. And grow up? Who is the kid throwing hissy fits over blog comments and speaking down to everyone who disagrees with him?


It doesn't matter if you "love piracy" or not. You profit from piracy at an unprecedented level and go out of your way to pretend you don't, with your only defense is to condescendingly tell everyone that they just don't understand.

Here is what I understand, and as far as any honest businessman is concerned, this is all that needs to be understood: You run the largest pirate network of sites on the internet and profit massively from them. I do not. Nothing else needs to be understood.

And again, since you have problems comprehending what others say to you... I am not asking for you to close your tubes. I understand they are here to say. I also understand you will not even delete the accounts of multiple infringers because that would mean you would lose 1000s of videos per account. And last, I also do not forget that just before you "acquired" Mansef, they were paying uploaders to populate some of the tube sites you now own. A fact you won't discuss because you know legally you can't. But lets cut the shit, we both know it happened and I will bet anything those accounts, the ones Mansef paid to upload videos, are still active under your watchful eye.


It's convenient to be able to say you are working within the laws, throwing money around to different groups to fight piracy, all the while making more money from piracy than anyone else on the planet.

And fighting "REAL piracy" is relative. Theft is theft. You don't personally search for your content or send a single DMCA. However, it is clear by your statements that you believe what you do is more important than what anyone else does, that your "fight" is larger, and you are doing more than anyone else. Here is a newsflash... GFY has done more to fight file locker piracy in the last week than you have since you "acquired" Mansef. Get over yourself.

Bottom line is this, if you were someone like Dave Cummings and had an honest business, none of this would be falling on your door step and no one would ever be breaking your balls. Zero. Zilch. Nada. But you knew walking into Mansef what they were up to, so you should have thickened your skin. Instead you throw temper tantrums and speak down to everyone who doesn't pat you on the back.

I'm not even sure why you waste your time here with all the "REAL piracy" fights you have going on. You should suit back up and get back to the front lines.

Oh, ok. So we'll just throw in the towel and let you throw money at the problem to random, unknown organizations who all have an agenda. Good plan. :thumbsup

Guess you didn't notice Oron turning off their affiliate program for the time being? Or their affiliates going bonkers on boards about not getting paid and are stopping the uploads as a result?

Fighting does not mean you have to knock them out with a single punch. Wars are not won that way. They are won by fighting one battle at a time. Since we know their hosts don't give a rats ass, their only other weakness is billing. And while you may argue that they will replace one after another, and that may be right, they will run out of solutions sooner or later.


Have you been able to do any of that? Because last I checked, no one is losing hosting. But they are all slowly losing processing, one billing company at a time.

Would you show us some of the DMCA's you send every month and inform someone like RYC of the sites you're finding breaking piracy rules.?

I admire what you've done with Babes.com and looking forward to viewing it, when it's ready. Brazzers isn't bad and Mofos IMO could be a lot better, unless you've changed them both. I personally don't care if 5-10 companies monopolise this business, it was always on the cards.

As for your Tubes, yes if it wasn't yours it would be one of the others, owned by other companies. Directing the moans at you as if you're the only or worse culprit is foolish. You're dead right, the traffic will go elsewhere and MW would lose out. Just don't get on a high horse as if you care. Piracy traffic forms part of MW's business plan. As it does all traffic sellers I suspect. And few point that out in the traffic selling/buying threads.

As for trying to win people over and improving your business. Here's an idea. Go after File Lockers and similar sites attacking their Achilles Heel, the money trail. Look for the sort of porn that's illegal and the types against Credit Card and processors TOS. DWB and a few others have done very well recently, take it up a notch to achieve more.

Set up a dept. inhouse or get another company to do it.

Also if you turn up to a seminar to give a talk, dress like a man who owns a 9 figure company, or part of it or someone who gets a decent wage. It's insulting to dress as you did. Don't announce 9 figures investment or loan sums until you're spending it and ready to show the purchases. Don't put some poor kid up in front of an audience of vipers who are looking to strike him. And don't send anyone here until he's welcome. It's all bad or foolish PR, the last one being cruel to the victim.

Last one just came into my head, include yourself in the last piece of advice. You just rile people p, yes I know. but I don't care. If you don't. Then they too have good reason to flame you.

Employ a PR company if you want to win people over. And a marketing person who knows more than driving traffic.

The good thing now for you is. This post will get you some breathing space while the trolls attack me. :thumbsup

DWB, you know I love you man. We've had some good one-on-one chats, and in general see eye to eye on many things about business, and this industry. That being said....

....this is written from the hobbyist point of view.

By that I mean, Nathan/Fabian/whatever name he goes by had explained most of this at the keynote last Jan.. In the end it really comes down to they have to remain in business, and are slowing changing their tubes via baby steps.

I am not saying it's right or wrong, but I see their point of view as a business owner. You have your own financial viability, as they are now the industry leader in traffic and pay sites, plus you have the legal constraints of DMCA and whatever else.

I am not forgiving them, I am not forgetting how they had gotten here, I am simply saying now that they are a monolith, there are other considerations that play into their business model.

:2 cents:

What a crock of shit ... Once a thief always a thief.

DWB, I do not care if any of this "falls on my door step" you seem to think I have some huge concern about the fact that you complain to me... I just like arguing now and then and I am currently home alone and have nothing better to do..

Also, I do not start with the speaking down, I just give back what people like you throw at me, that's all... if you have a problem with that, so be it... I could not care less.

Regarding your ideas...
1) Cutting free emails would deny half of the adult webmasters access to upload content
2) Somehow "verifying" by hand accounts and making sure they are associated with a specific studio means in case of a mistake or a malicious attempt in faking the information by someone, we are liable for it.
3) Allowing only "emails from the programs owning the content" to upload it, requires screening for copyrights and thus invalidates your DMCA Safe Harbor. If one single mistake is done here, we can get sued and have no way to protect us against it.
As a side effect, it will also cause any promotional content to no longer be usable by affiliates and would effectively kill the last bit of power affiliates still have.
4) You ask me to turn them off since none of your other solutions work. Turning them off is the only way other than complying with DMCA law to keep Safe Harbor to not make yourself liable for the content on them.
5) Does not matter if you make money from the image or not, without DMCA, GFY is liable, they make money of it, they would get sued, and they could in theory sue you if they ever found you...
6) If you have a great other solution than fignerprinting, why do you not make it public? You keep saying you want to fight piracy, would that not do that? Also, if its only for your new content, fingerprinting, for free, your old content would make sure it never comes up on many of the sites you hate so much.
7) As I said, I reply to people the way they treat me... I apologized for the hissy fit the second Mike explained what happened, in case you did not notice ;)
8) We do not run a pirate network, we run tube sites which by DMCA law require certain things to protect ourself. Our site gets hundreds and hundreds of uploads from inside the industry to promote other sites via our traffic. They get a fraction of that from the outside and there is no way for us to filter those without breaking DMCA safe harbor. At least I have not found one yet, and I understand that you think there are many, but I am very sorry, you do not understand the law. I have spent a lot of money making sure I understand it and we have a lot of law firms telling us what we can and can not do and also why that is the case... I am constantly seeing what else I can do to limit the infringing content on our sites, but there is a law I have to follow to be sure that I am not found liable for all kinds of other things happening... Of course you will not believe me again and say it's all a sham trying to avoid the actual thing and that all your solutions are safe and you know it much better than me how the law works...
9) Never said anything I do is more important than what others do, I actually said before that I love that CCBill turned off file lockers and I hope more will follow. This is not a contest of who did more or less in fighting piracy, all I said was that I am funding various places that fight piracy too.

As I said, I am not throwing temper tantrums, trust me, they look very different because I do through them sometimes <g> ... I am simply arguing about piracy with you and others...

I don't disagree with any of that. The tubes are here to stay and they have traffic. That I do not debate.

What I would like to see happen is to place restrictions on the uploaders by how they create an account. Just make a system to verify them. If you have to have [email protected] in order to create an account, that will eliminate a large portion of 3rd world and broke ass uploaders. Then go a step further and say only videos can be loaded from that account that come from the site or program attached to the email. That would eliminate another huge portion of pirates.

If they are pirates who steal, they will not meet that criteria.

But of course they would never, ever do this because they NEED fresh stolen content from random uploaders. Thus my point of him not giving a real shit about piracy. Because if he did care, he would find ways, such as those I mentioned and others, to stop pirate uploaders.

Just own it Fabian. Say you need piracy and wear it like man. You can still throw money at the cause like you care, but just admit you NEED piracy.

Well, somebody must do this:
 

DWB, Oron did NOT TURN OFF THEIR AFFILIATE PROGRAM. Their affiliate program was invite only since the beginning of the year now, since Megaupload was shut down. They selectively remove people from it. Their affiliate program is still up and running the same as before CCBill shut their billing down.

Maybe you should wait and see what their hosting does or does not do in the next couple of weeks... who knows, things change...

Fabian, your pov makes sense :thumbsup

I feel you man, but what Nathan/Fabian/whatthefuckever is getting at, is once you start "pre-screening" people, you eliminate the safe harbor provisions of DMCA. It's the same for a web hosting company. Once you start going "looking for" offenders, you are basically doing some level of 'moderation' or oversight. This is where you get into trouble. It is typically why these various companies play Schultz from Hogan's Heros.

In short, there is legal landmines that play into this on some degree. Not just the piracy side, and enforcement of that. But switching their tubes from the pure theft they were when they had bought them, to slowly weeding that shit out, and bringing in legal content over time without losing their traffic, or standing in the business model as an example.

Again, I am not excusing them, or saying all of this is right or wrong. I am simply saying, they are now a huge corporate enterprise. Whether we like it or not, they have people to answer too (Playboy, investors, whomever). You are going to see them operate the same as a telco, wall street banks, CCBill, or whatever. Change will come slowly. Often times very very very slowly.

:2 cents:

:2 cents::1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Breaking piracy rules, what are you talking about? And RYC has made it very clear they are not interested to work with us. Nate _loves_ me... ;) And why should I show you any of our DMCA's, just trying to figure out what good this will do me? I am looking into submitting them to the dmca database being discussed on xbiz.net...

Although I like the fact that it worked this time, I do not think this is a wise idea to do. 1) It will attract unneeded attention by Visa and MC to the whole adult industry and 2) The processor can always claim that people are not buying the CONTENT, they are simply buying the premium membership to the file locker. That there is illegal content on the file locker is secondary.

I am however setting up an semi in-house department right now which is going to do something similar, yes.

Uhm seriously, I dress however the fuck I want to. IF you have a problem with that, thats your problem... The "kid" that did the xbiz seminar enjoyed it, and got a ton of positive feedback after the Q&A. He has no issue doing it again, the same way. He reacted absolutely correct to all questions thrown at him after Mike's remarks. The seminar was absolutely what we expected and went quite tame at the end to be honest... Just because Mike and his friends here post and laugh how bad it looked, does not mean nobody liked the seminar. It was one of the most visited seminars at xbiz miami and got far more than 90% positive feedback from the attendees.

We have PR people, and if she is reading it she is likely shaking her head in disbelief... ;) And even if I would write "Hello" it would rattle certain people up here, and I am not going to let people deny me to speak my mind, especially not after lies get thrown around by people like Mike South as if its all fun and games... I do not care if I get flamed, it does not hurt me...

Read my first message to you. I did not speak down to you. I asked questions and made truthful comments. Your business was 100% built on piracy, even if that business was built before you took over. There is no denying that and there is proof Mansef was paying uploaders out there that I will gladly refrence if you want to see it, but I think we both know you already have and know what's up, hence the fact you can never comment on it.

That is not a personal attack on you, those are just the facts. Then you came blazing back about growing up, high-fiving buddies, and how I don't understand shit.


I stopped reading here because that is not a valid excuse. If a "webmaster" can't set up an email account for the sake of uploading content to tubes, in an attempt to better the entire industry, then I don't feel sorry for him and he loses out on your traffic.

Honestly, how sorry is a person if they can't set this up to help the entire industry? They snooze, they lose. That should not be your or my problem. I'd set up as many accounts as I had to.

And truth be told, if someone is willing to encode their videos over and over for every tube with mysite.com/yourtube on it, then they will be willing to set up some email accounts. That much I'm sure of. And if they don't, fuck 'em.

If cutting out free emails would deny half of the adult webmasters, imagine how many pirates it would deny. :warning Now we're making progress. But why else can't you implement this one simple step?

What is this, national meltdown week? :1orglaugh

DWB, you should not have stopped reading there, since that was the smallest reason for any of your remarks not working in connection with DMCA... But if you prefer reading what Barefootsies wrote, do that, he basically said the same thing I did just in his words not in my gibberish <G>

Regarding what Mansef did or did not do, I am sure you understand that I simply can not comment on those things. However much I would like to, I can not. Its the same as me not being able to comment publicly on their seizures of money in the US. Obviously I know more than you about it since it happened in the middle of contract negotiations, but there is things in contracts which prohibit me from speaking about it, even if I would love to openly agree or deny certain facts...

When we ever meet in person, ask me again, maybe I can answer you then.

DWB, sorry, forgot one thing... in one of your posts above you claimed that we do not have a repeat infringer policy... that is not correct, we have one and it is actively being used.

There is nothing in any law book that says they can't require a real email address. That has nothing to do with DMCA or Safe Harbor.

Facebook made me attach a phone number to my account and verify that account before I could use my account. They sent a SMS with a code that I had to enter into Facebook. Why couldn't that same method be used for other sites that allow user submitted content? At least then you know exactly who loaded it and they can be tracked if need be. But you know what, people wouldn't upload all that stolen content if their real phone number was attached to their account. And asking for it doesn't violate Safe Harbor.

And I don't believe change is coming from them, even if they claim it will come slowly. It is in their benefit to not change and keep doing what they are doing. Their traffic and success of their tube sites 99% depend on piracy via random uploaders.

BF, do you believe Fabian doesn't know what accounts were created by Mansef for inhouse and paid uploaders? Or do you believe he was told to pretend he doesn't know about them by his legal council?

Content that we had reason to believe was POSSIBLY uploaded by inhouse people has long been removed. We removed all content associated with certain accounts and those accounts themself shortly after acquiring the tube sites.

Literally broadcast thievery much ?

No, I totally understand why you can't comment on it. No need to explain. My point was that you can't, but it goes without saying you know what they did.


I vaguely remember going through this a long time ago with you. You would stop them from uploading but not delete their other videos. There was a member with something like over 2000 videos. You were going to check with your legal team about if you could or not and I don't recall seeing anything after that. All I know is YouTube does it, and they did it to me. They have a strike policy and then they delete your account and all of your videos, for any reason they see fit that you have violated their terms. Facebook does it too. You get a few warnings then they delete your entire page with all of your content. So you should be able to do that as well.

Side note, the irony of the youtube and facebook issues were due to false DMCAs sent on content I owned. It sucks, but that's how it plays out sometimes. They don't even reply to counter DMCAs, and what am I going to do, sue the two largest media companies on the internet?

That is actually good to hear. I honestly didn't think you would have done that or have been instructed legally to not acknowledge it.

This was only a problem with old accounts, new accounts that upload content which gets DMCA'd get blocked so fast, they usually do not fill up with content first.

And yes, you should, because per DMCA they have to react to counter notices...

That alone, an email address, is not the issue. However, the rest of the premise is a slippery slope legally. I think it is a great common sense idea, make no mistake about it. But I also see the flip side of the coin legally, and within the so-called justice system.

I believe they are making an honest attempt, that is my personal feeling.

However, I think it is a balancing act. I say this from my own actual experience, and understanding of the market, or the tube site business. Even on small tubes, it is difficult to deal with those just uploading for ego, or whatever. You have people willing to upload large volumes of shit just so they can be the first to post a link on some forum. Not even for money. Just for being "cool".

I think Nathan/Fabian/whatthefuckever is a figurehead of a corporate conglomerate. I believe he has layers that advise him what he can, and cannot say publicly. I think they are probably making some level of a best effort to deal with this issue, but can't openly admit that they are doing any level of oversight that could be used in court.

I see things from a different point of view per se. More so from the ugly side of how corporate America works, from my years before porn. I think that Schultz is really trying to balance out being a good corporate porn citizen, without completely destroying their business model (i.e. losing all of the traffic).

Just like the CCBill threads of the past week, once things are BROUGHT TO THEIR ATTENTION, you may see some results. Same as Schultz has mentioned that when they get DMCA's, they act on them. What I am getting at here is, once something is brought up they deal with it. But they are not going to openly admit they go looking for it, as legally they could be on the hook.

I would say this is probably what his team of lawyers in Vegas have advised him, but that is just my guess. If you have a whole legal team with you at a conference, I would say that they probably have given you some parameters and public 'corporate line', you must operate within.

:2 cents:

Certain things my lawyers instruct me to do, I do not really care about.. or forget... in this case, I have no clue if they ever told me not to acknowledge or not... so you got lucky ;)

A handful of their affiliates are screaming about closed accounts on some of the boards. I know it's still open for some.


I hope that is foreshadowing.

I saw that too, I also think that what you are seeing on those boards is the tip of the iceberg. I have some numbers of what some of those file hosts have in terms of profit a month, the numbers you see there on those boards are peanuts. Its the small people complaining... just as it happens so often on adult boards... The big fish, you will not see, they have nothing to complain about.

I'm a fucking Megalodon bitch.

No. You're a fucking idiot.

:2 cents:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh Who cares how someone looks like? You can't judge people on that !

There are places in the world with hosting companies that won't give a fuck. you need to go through a court to achieve what you suggest.

This is why you need to get a PR company to reform your image. It makes people think you have something else to hide. No one is going to curse you for throwing MW's weight and money behind this, if you do in straight and openly.

Get a PR man.

Get lawyers around the world.

And pirating it. AND has roved pointless.

Get behind this fight by funding someone else or setting it up and getting a good PR company to advise you. You're a 9 figure company for goodness sake, act like one.

Paul, I hate suits, I would never wear them, only only wear jeans and hoodies, I am comfortable with it and thats how it is...

Did we ever get an official answer to how many toilets are in each of the various Manwin corporate offices?

:helpme

careful with the hoodies when you go to florida

what's more exhausting, being a moron or a sycophant ?

Ringside seat to some heavyweight banter.

(not Paul's frivolousness, have a seat codger)