So it's not a fact that you are 43 times more likely to kill or injure yourself or a family member with a gun than you are to injure or kill an intruder? Because that's what I've heard was a fact. I'll have to look it up later.

You are also more likely to die if you are driving car X and are in an accident than when you are driving the much bigger car Y and are in an accident.

Does that mean that the government should ban all cars X and only allow people to buy the more expensive car Y?

Guns come from all across the world. Specifically places that don't regulate like the USA does. Come on now, hopefully you just don't know better. There are enough weapons to supply the entire USA with about 1-2 weapons per person. Take the AK-47 for example. There is just an AMAZING surplus of AK-47's available. Some army/military and some for civilian use.

Take a quick look at these numbers, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry.. the USA is a top contender, but guns come from across the entire world. Regulating USA won't slow any of the black market down.

In 2007 they estimated around 870 million firearms.. and that is 2007. (this was a quick google search so I could give real numbers) Guns lifespan, in the responsible owners hand, can last generations. I still have a few weapons from WWI that my family has passed down. They still fire. Ammo hard time come by, but they fire just as well.


Sorry to tell you, but deterring people from buying over the counter weapons only affects the legit firearm owners. Believe it or not, USA does have pretty good deterrents already in place. Ex; Firearm Dealers call in every single sale, recording SSN, and serial number. If the Fed's respond with a "RED - NO GO" response -- the sherif and police could be called. You are not able to purchase with any type of felony on your record.

"Bad guys" get their stock from the black market or even theft. The theft part, is where I must completely agree. If a weapon is used in a murder and was stolen, that sucks because it could have been prevented by not allowing someone to buy without a proper safe installed.

Ah, but you may not realise that the more closely relevant car accident statistic is that you are more likely to die or be injured in a car accident within 2 miles of your own home. Did you know that? It's because people feel more comfortable and relax their vigilance when they approach their familiar streets. I learned that in junior high school on a field trip to the police station. It's also true you're more likely to be injured.. period.. in your own home for the same reasons (and because you spend a lot of time there). It's just more of those factual things for good or ill.

And NO, naturally it has nothing to do with any banning or prentative measures at all. And saying it happens more doesn't mean a complete ban would prevent it ever happening as I covered in another post. I know it's tempting to always frame it as everything or nothing, but I'm totally in the middle on guns. I am not for bans. I am for regulation and on SOME things I'd be OK with a ban.

For example, ammo clips of greater than 10 rounds. BAN completely and I'd support it 100%.

Assault rifles? Ban completely and I'd be 100% for it.

Strict tracking of ammo and banning them from family stores like mega marts? I'd be completely 100% fine with that too. Maybe even taxing ammo is a good idea, and if someone buys 1000 rounds in one purchase, make them wait. I'd be ok with that.

:1orglaugh I was going to say go buy an Apache, Nuke, Torpedo, SAM, and then report back please.

Surely you need all these things? The government can't always be trusted, and they can't protect you at all times right?

NO they shouldn't.

Maybe we should institute a moritorium on gun manufature then in the US until all these giant piles of weapons are depleted. Anyone up for some letters to congress?

The Colorado guy bought everything "legit". Sure, maybe if he hadn't done it someone with an illegal black market AK47 would have done the same thing. I just doubt it.

Car industry is making cars safer.
Food companies are making food healthier.
Electronics companies are making electronics more efficient.

Arms industry is making more guns.

When you are shown facts you blank them out completely or go missing. Damian's post...

on the subject of going missing, where is that epassporte replacement of yours that was supposed to be ready "within 48 hours"? you disappeared after that one, only to sheepishly resurface weeks later.

I agree, but has one downfall. They would "take their business elsewhere." For example, there is a gun manufacture that makes USA Based guns, labeled as USA... but when the factory gets over worked, the manufacturing is pushed to their secondary factories in the Philippines. Let's face it, arms manufactures are in it to make money. If money isn't to be had in the USA, they will just move to another country.

They tried to raise ammo, but those businesses who did would go OUT of business. People who fire many rounds, tend to press their own ammo. At the current moment, a (decent) .223 round is about 0.30 per shot. To press your own using reload-able brass is ~0.33/shot. Currently the reason to reload your own ammo is to ensure quality (hopefully) and create better accuracy. If they raise the price on ammo, it will be to save money also. An entire setup should only cost ~200-500$ and you'll have a complete setup to make your own ammo. :2 cents:

Gun control doesn't mean banning gun ownership. Only the scared put that forward.

What it should mean is a proper regulation of who is buying what, when, how many and how often. Look at the mass killings carried out over the last few years and ask, "Why wasn't a red flag raised to spot these guys buying guns and lots of ammunition?"

Yes it won't stop these guys going into a school with a knife, bow and arrow, spear, rock or baseball bat. Just reduce the fatalities.

Nothing sheepish about anything. The banks we were dealing with suddenly showed signs of being unstable, and we decided NOT to move ahead with the project. We made that decision so that nobody, including ourselves, would get screwed over. As it turned out, our decision was the correct one, and other people that were dealing with that insttution DID get screwed over. I had someone else here ask me about it months and months ago, and I already told this to them here.


p.s. the stats in that wiki article are very twisted, and I can dig into the reasons why, but sometimes I realize that it makes no difference what anyone posts here, in terms of changing anyones mind, and I actually do have a business to run, so I don't always have time to look all this stuff up. :)



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Garry Johnson for President!

Tell it to the ghost of James Madison, slave-owning 'Father' of the Bill of Rights.

Republicans idea of a perfect society


http://www.warisboring.com/wp-conten...i-mooryaan.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5_PcHUa3j5...00/somalia.jpg


http://www.nothirdsolution.com/wp/wp...technicals.jpg


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ticleLarge.jpg


http://www.bartamaha.com/wp-content/...malia-guns.jpg


http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/up...mimg_53530.jpg


http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/up...mimg_12728.jpg


http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-...garette-Ad.jpg


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...H2E5uTL_aoV9dZ


http://abcnews.go.com/images/Interna...0403_wblog.jpg

huh .......

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Gun control leads to http://www.listsofworld.com/wp-conte...amp-Poland.jpg

If you want to sit on your porch with an AK47 and protect your property from an invading internal army, fine, but if you think that two trained American soldiers can't take your assault rifle from you and shove it right up your ass you are clearly delusional.

You prefer to go quietly instead of defending your family?

That seems the be the consensus these days. I, for one, feel bad for anyone who tries to take any of my rights away. There may be more of "them" than me, but if I go down, I'll be sure to go down swinging.

I don't care what laws are passed or what crisis happens. Good luck taking my protection, food, transportation, or home from me.

Ok so it's my body so can we fully legalize all drugs and abortions already? ABORTIONS FOR ALL!

But then of course you'll just respond a fetus is a separate human being

And then I'll respond not if it cant survive out of the womb

But you'll come back with we need these unwanted babies so they can commit crimes and buy weapons on the black market. So this is the reason why we need to be able to buy AK47s to kill them

So maybe I should just stick with the argument legalize and tax weed and limit gun use.

But I'm rambling...

There are over 2000 SWAT raids performed in this country daily, why arent you out there fighting against that govt tyranny and protecting their rights? I have no doubt if one of those raids were performed on your house you would lay down like the rest.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Sorry can't resist posting BFT3K's satire...

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...62779531_n.jpg

I don't like nanny states, against an outright ban, but this I'll fight invading armies excuse makes me chuckle.

Spoken like a true coward...

Don't assume the masses would lay down and take it. I know a lot of people talk, but if someone wrongfully bashes down my door trying to take my property, they will be met with equal force.

I know for a fact, there are many many many people who feel the same way as I do. The number of people who are prepared for the day something like that would happen -- would surprise the hell out of you.

You're the one so afraid of your own shadow that you feel you need a weapon to leave your house and I'm the coward. Makes perfect sense.

anybody know about some paying gun and ammo selling sponsor?

....... That painted a very scary picture//

:error :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
You'll be the person who ends up standing behind people like me who will fight for our constitutional rights.

preparation: the action or process of making something ready for use or service or of getting ready for some occasion, test, or duty

You'll change your tune in the event you end up needing it. By then, it will be too late and you'll be on the 9pm news -- all because of your ignorance. :pimp

yesss :thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Rocket launchers are illegal.

Remember the 2nd amendment is to allow the private militias (citizens) to keep the government in check.

Problem is, you are not allowed any weapons that are on-par with the government's military, so it is now just solid bullshit.

The politicians say we don't need gun control. Okay cool, let's stop scanning people for guns when they enter state and federal buildings. Let's really do away with it once and for all. Let's make teflon coated bullets legal too - why not, you gotta protect yourself against tyranny, right?

What a truly pathetic world we live in...

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...99333084_n.jpg

Says the guy with a dozen generators and 10,000 boxes of pudding that went to waste in preparation for Y2K. I'm sure they will get plenty of use though with 2012 fastly approaching. :1orglaugh

lol, those are all Call of Duty guns ... :-/

Honestly, most of those are NOT legal for a civilian to own btw. To name a few, the shotgun(s) with the exception to the AA & Spaz. Basically the entire top half of the firearms as they are able to be converted to fully automatic. They do have counter-parts that are made by different companies with the same label.... those are semi-auto and use different parts so you can't swap in & out to make a Full-Auto.

H&K does not sell their MP5 to civilians. Finding H&K MP5 pre 1986 ban is ~40k ... and usually does not work.

The scariest firearm up there that can actually be purchased is the 50 cal rifles. You can buy those for $5k easily -- and ~ $1-$3/round.



But point taken on the photo lol :thumbsup

shoot shoot shoot i may hunt this weekend

:321GFY
:ak47:

Enough, Thunderbolt :jerkoff, when you have something intelligent to say -- rejoin the discussion.

I don't need to store food and use a generator, I have guns & ammo. I can hunt & kill to feed my family. You'll need to hope for charity... or... you could always resort to:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4...ktyo1_1280.png


sorry, that was mean...

The same argument is always raised whenever I open up a discussion about the future of fully autonomous vehicles. Auto enthusiasts always say "you're not going to STOP people from being killed in a car. Why even attempt to stop it? If you insist in being in something that you don't control, why don't you just take the bus?"

Since we can't stop vehicular fatalities, it would make sense by their logic to remove seatbelts... and take away reinforced cross bracing, to put gas tanks on the outside of the frame structure (Ford Pinto, anyone?) and do away with crumple zones and airbags. We'll also remove the electronic stability traction control that has been credited with reducing fatalities by several percentage points over the years since it became mandatory. The reason for removing all the safety equipment will be "we can't stop auto fatalities".

Makes sense... only to these idiots.

So yeah, in their fantasy world... the world is currently perfect. Technology should never advance. Let's just bring back the horse and buggy, wash boards and buckets, and let's all move into caves. :)

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

In which countries with gun control is the Government breaking down doors taking people's property? Or food or transportation.

Why would it happen? It hasn't happened in any other analogous country.

Gun control only just creates a nice confidence boost for the criminals who will get guns regardless of their legality. Because hey I got this gun, and chances are now way less people have them, yipppeee!

DO YOU THINK CRIMINALS FOLLOW THE PROPER PROCEDURES FOR GETTING WEAPONS ALL THE TIME, ,NO, they are criminals? Do you think it will stop them from getting a gun?

Are we banning knives now since their a crazy person who stabs someone? How about paper clips, let's control those too.

And shit.... what about ROCKS?! I can throw a rock pretty far and give someone a concussion if my aim is good enough, let's ban those too.

Does a heroin addict not do heroin because it's illegal? How about coke or PCP?