"justice" - a subjective idea has little to do with "rights" which are codified in law and are black and white.

And this is the problem. THe guy who is a paranoid schizophrenic is "free" to roam the streets believing every child is an alien and he needs to kill them all - and NO ONE can really stop him until he starts killing children.

Yes, you can. Its called the Baker Act. You can be dragged out of your house right now and put in a psychiatric facility for observation should there be sufficient cause to do so. I've actually sent police to someone and had them take that person for observation. Works just fine. That individual ended up getting diagnosed and treated.

It just requires someone that isn't too politically correct and that can not only recognize the problem, but then does something about it. In most cases of these mass murderers, they were already diagnosed... but their "rights" come before those of everyone around them who are the ones who should be protected.

I'd never want to be "in charge". Every human is free to do whatever he wants with his own body and his property as long as he does not cause damage to another human or that human's property.

I deal with others based on voluntary exchange.

Writing truly good law has to be one of the trickiest acts ever to pull off.

Most anyone can intuitively tell the difference between someone who says off the wall shit just to get a reaction or because he's pissed off or he's drunk or some such and those with loose screws.

Legislating preventive measures that preclude abuse on the part of the state is another matter all together.

Something does not "become a right" because it's "codified in law". The whole purpose of codifying things is to protect the rights people already have. The US was founded on that principle. Read the Declaration of Independence.

And as Bastiat wrote in "The law", justice is the absence of injustice. An act of injustice is committed when someone violates someone else's rights. Murder is an act of injustice because it's a violation of that individual's (property) rights (See self ownership.). Theft is an act of injustice because it's a violation of an individual's (property) rights. Fraud is an act of injustice because it's a violation of an individual's (property) rights (Fraud is essentially "theft by trick" as it was originally called). etc

Fucking nice post :thumbsup

That may be how you wish things were, but that's not the reality. You are not free to do what you want with your own property. You can't make your rifle full auto. You can't shoot heroin into your arm. You can't legally shoot yourself in the head. You can't add onto your own home on your own property without getting all kinds of permits, abiding by 1000s of rules and regulations, being subject to all kinds of inspections etc etc etc.

Virtually every aspect of your life is regulated by the laws.

Sorry none of these are liberals lol.

It's true that the government interferes with almost every aspect of our lives, but that does not make it right. "Might does not make right". It's true that politicians makes tons of laws and regulations (sometimes with good intentions, sometimes with less than honorable intentions), but that does not mean enforcing those laws and regulations is the same as preventing injustice. In some states and countries, people of the same sex are not allowed to voluntarily have sex with each other. Is that 'right' because it's 'a law'?

There's justice and then there's what the government does. Originally most governments were set up to prevent injustice, but that does not guarantee that everything they do serves that purpose.

Ultimately, governments are made up out of people. And people aren't perfect. People don't always act with good intentions and they can never act with perfect knowledge of what the consequences of their actions will be.

I understand that when terrible things happen (like the recent shootings), people look for a way to prevent those things from happening again. But like Gandhi said "if the means are imperfect, the result will also be imperfect". When people ask for more laws and regulations, they should be aware of that fact.

Respect! :thumbsup

People do the killing and there is a lot of crazy people out there. Hence why I love being in Canada... For a crazy person to get any semi automatic or automatic weapon, it is wayyyyyy harder here then in the US of A. I am sure if it was as easy, we'd have more horror stories here then we have now.

Sorry, what I meant (and maybe should have said) was there were no massacres today. The point being that, while obviously there have been spree killings in other countries, they are few and far between compared to the USA, where it has basically become a normal fact of life.

If that were true then the total (not merely gun-related) homicide rate in comparable countries (western democracies) would be the same or similar to that of the USA. It's not. The homicide rate is far higher in the USA. I'm sure you can guess why.

It's pointless talking about crimes like rape and robberies, since they are always drastically under-reported. Rises could simply mean there is better reporting/recording, which is a good thing. As for the murder rate in England:

The murder rate in England and Wales fell by 14% to 550 homicides in 2011-12 – the lowest level since 1983.

Though it should be said the murder rate in the USA is, I believe, the lowest it has ever been since the 1960s. Though that's mainly because it was so astronomically high in the intervening years. Population 5 times larger than the UK, 30 times as many homicides. So much for people finding alternate ways to kill if they don't have access to guns.

Fairly sure that Breivik obtained his guns legally, like James Holmes. Despite gunloons claiming that illegal guns are the problem. As for Mexico, if you have to compare the USA to countries in mumbo-jumbo land to make your point, you truly have lost the argument.

that'd be happening in some imaginary fairyland maybe, reality proves for the last couple of thousand years that you would have to be alone on a deserted island to make that work.

i dont know how old you are but i am defintely old and disenchanted enough to accept what is reality. and that is that without proper laws and enforcement we would have a fucking riot out there.

I think you should be able to buy any gun you want but you have to go thru a process and purchases should be tracked. Someone all of a sudden starts buying 1000's of rounds of ammo or multiple weapons in a short period of time. It would send a big flag. But rest easy that will never happen because NRA gives big money and a real process would slow down gun sales and we cant have that.

That could never happen here in Canuckstikan. Yes we get killings and we had our horror stories like the Polythéchnique drama which ended with a tougher Gun Control law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89c...re#Gun_control

It's all about availability :( And why can't your guns sales go down?

whats REALLY funny is the thought of some rightwing raghead hater so clueless that he makes the mistake of thinking that sikhs are freakin alqaedas.

then slapping on his gear and taking a pistol to shoot them up, lol.

that is the very essence of rightwing stupidity, if true.

You must be making certain assumptions that are completely wrong about what I said.

As long as there are humans on this planet, there will be humans that violate other people's rights. Having a property right in something means you have the exclusive authority to determine how that resource can be used. If someone tries to violate those rights, you obviously have the right to stop them. So you also have the right to hire someone to do that for you.

What a government actually is is an organization that performs that task for you.

I never said we live in or should be living in or even could be living in some fairy land where everybody is friends with everybody else and no one commits any crimes. No, what I'm saying is that the existence of crime, the presence of criminals is a fact of life. The question is "how do you deal with this?". Do you allow the organization that is tasked with protecting people (the government in this case) to commit crimes or do you think that that organization should abide by the same rules as everybody else? Some people think the government should be able to do whatever it wants because it's the government. I say: "no, every act of injustice is immoral even if it is committed with good intentions".

No offense and professionally I like your style, but while on the one hand your are 'disenchanted ', you seem to have a kind of 'blind faith' in government. Like I said, governments are made up out of normal people. They are also imperfect. They don't always act with good intentions. They also get jealous. They also act to cover their asses or protect their positions. They can't exactly predict the outcome of their actions. They aren't 'immune to financial incentives'. They couldn't prevent all crimes even if they had unlimited resources. etc.

There's places where the government controls what comes in and what doesn't, when you have to get up and go to bed, where you can go and where you can't go. Those places are called prisons. Yet, even though the people there are completely under the control of those in charge, fights still take place, people still get raped, people still manage to get a hold of drugs and use them,...

What I'm worried about, and I'm not directly addressing you personally here, is that people have started to expect that the government fix everything. They have this almost religious, blind faith in the ability and the intentions of their governments and are willing to give up their personal rights and those of their fellow men in an attempt to reach this Utopian paradise. They allow their rights to be violated and forget what the purpose of that government was all about in the first place: to protect people's rights.

For the same reason Richard is blaming the utensil.

Really? I bet Castro would have classified himself as one.

Right, that Greyhound bus incident proves you don't need a gun to be a lunatic in Canada. Knives are the weapon of choice up there. So we just outlaw sharp and pointed objects?

You forgot that gay porn star who cut a body and sent it via mail to few places not to long ago and he fucked the torso to... Stick to the point of my comment BD it is about GUN Control... not about LUnatics that kills with any weapon of choice.

Hell hopefully no one in Canadia will kill someone with a computer mouse. I might be in trouble then... :upsidedow

The point being that controlling guns is not going to do anything but eliminate the ability of law abiding citizens to protect themselves. It will not prevent murder or mass murder.

"controlling guns"?

Guns are controlled.
:2 cents:

Why live in fear and to protect yourself. I have honestly NEVER felt I had to do this in the last 42 years of my life living in Quebec, BC, Ontario, England, Curacao... also spent time in the US.

Look at numbers BD places where gun availibility as higher gun rate death then others. Am I wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

They fucking give you a gun at birth in South Africa... no wonder it's numer 1 Eh!

With that said, not to proud of Canada ranking but it's better then US.

You'll notice more than half are suicides, so not as bad as it looks. Like my dad always told me, you can prove anything you want with stats. Just how you use them.

Most (almost all) of Canada's are suicides; that has to say something about living there.

Sure, they live somewhere with fewer guns used in violent crimes.

Yup and most US of A suicide is with drugs... (I only read Fox and TMZ) ;-) And I also prefer someone killing themself with a gun then a few other people as well TBH

We could dance all night but to be honest my point IS just about gun control.

If you guys prefer to play and collect toys that kills, well good for you. I'll stick with my backgammon board.

Sorry I missed that one. :pimp

So just maybe... with less guns, USA could possibly... Have LESS Suicide if the guns weren't as easily available on the market?

A right wing follower of Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin no doubt. Nice world you gun nuts have created.

Or if you can get a hold of a gun you will most likely shoot yourself.

It is too difficult to find anyone to play backgammon with. This is not 1973.

Worst argument ever. If we can get the suicidal out of the way, that would probably save everyone a lot of grief.

I guess we need to know what you consider a "gun nut" before anyone can respond to that.

You're right genius. The only things stopping every Canadian from putting a gun in their mouth and pulling the trigger is hockey season and strict gun control.

Considering you get on here after every bi-monthly mass shooting blaming the victims and defending guns that would be you.

Care to show me once that I ever blamed the victims? Ever.

It's the fuckers with the spoons you need to watch the most. Those are the really dangerous ones. Remember the spoon massacre last year? Sixteen people were killed by a single man armed with a spoon.

But wait! It gets better yet! The shooter was killed by an off duty police officer...

I always hear the same old argument - If the public was armed this wouldn't have happened. Yet in this case, there was someone armed - a police officer trained to handle such situations. Even though there was an armed police officer present, the shooter shot and killed six people before he was shot dead?

So in other words... Having someone who is armed still results in innocent people being dead.

How many you suspect would have been shot if he wasn't there?

Dunno.

I'm just saying there was a police officer there, fully trained and armed, and people still died. All of this happened in seconds. The shooter walked in, pulled out a gun, and before anyone knew what was happening no less be able to react, people were already dead.

There was an armed police officer there and people still died.

I own firearms but I'm under no illusion I'll be able to defend myself in a movie theatre instantly without killing the wrong person. The odds of me shooting myself by accident are much better than me taking out a shooter in a dark movie movie theatre.

Getting senile?

Try looking outside of Montreal. Toronto has been ripe with shootings in the past two months.

Last I checked Toronto is still in Canada. Otherwise it wouldn't be such a pain in the ass for me to work there and I wouldn't need a damn work permit after all of these years.

See you Thursday...

and if we didn't have gun crazy america next door importing the majority of guns used in crimes those recent incidents would of turned out much differently or not happened at all.

originally the only guns protected by law took like 3-5 minutes just to load. now you can kill hundreds in that same time frame. things have changed big time but the same laws from the 1700's still apply. that doesn't make sense.

Bullshit ! Ive watched many movies,the hero immediately reacts pulls out his gun and takes out the bad guys no matter where he is or doing. lol

Damn straight. Fucking turban wearing brown skinned fucks are ALWAYS involved in EVERY shooting in the US.

Who let them in, anyway? They should fuck off back to their own country

AMIRITE?