Changed your quote from " if so good , why " to " if so bad, why " ...
Your questions of why if things are so good it must be said is stange, as it must be said to answer all the statments that things are so bad , not improving, etc ...

But it is no point to do, as people beleive only their " team "...
Can't wait for this election to finish ... I wont have to suffer it while a few monts in Florida .

How was life before the great depression old man?

The obvious answer - It was excellent up to 2008

Im a fan of Bruce Bartlett, I assume you know who he is. He worked for Reagan and Bush the first and I wrote him last night. Because I didnt know if the taxes were high in the 50's but with deductions they paid so much less was truthful or not. So I emailed Mr Bartlett and surprise surprise he responded it was very short but he doesnt know me why should it be longer but he responded.
My email to him

I have a question for you. Im in a political argument. The person is saying in the 50's even though the Tax rates were higher with deductions people actually paid much less than they do now. Is that so?
Thanks
Tony
His response: no

And man its refreshing when you get your info from a guy who helped set policy not a pundit.

When the huge debts Bush had run up fighting pointless wars. The unregulated banks hit the buffers and the train got derailed. Then the EU was also dragged into the mess, by the gambling by their banks and countries.

And it's all the black man's fault because he hasn't fixed it yet. :upsidedow

And it's because he spent too much. :1orglaugh

don't worry Romney will fix it all. He will sell off some of the good bits, close down the bad bits and cream a huge profit off it. Plus send more jobs to China. :thumbsup

He's got a great track record. Plus he will cut taxes.

The truth is obvious, little will change until the electorate wake up and stop following like sheep and voting in the same old faces with the same old policies.

And anyone comparing how it used to be before 1990 is like me telling you how the porn business used to be.

So you're saying the guy who worked for the guy who said "Read my lips, no new taxes!" told you that?

That settles it then.

You are familiar with Tax Freedom Day.

Here is a list of when those days occurred for the past 112 years,

Send this link to Mr. Bartlett and ask him why he didn't know this?
http://taxfoundation.org/article/tax...rden-1900-2012

1950 - 3/24
2012 - 4/17

Has he gotten back to you yet Tony? I am curious what he thinks about the fact that the average citizens tax burden takes a full 3 weeks more today than it did in 1950

I think Romney despite all his flaws and lies would probably win this election if he was for cutting defense. He's not however, and we simply don't need it. I think that alone loses a lot of undecideds.

The fact that it's even close is really testament to the economy still sucking despite what some things might indicate. Stock market is up, but dollar is down. Unemployment is down but lots of people stopped looking for work. Businesses may have more money than ever, but most are hoarding it. Housing market still blows. And simply put, more people than ever are struggling. Republicans have been obstructionist to say the least, so anyone who is blaming Republicans entirely and not Obama at all is basically saying to re-elect Obama so that the same shit will continue for another 4 years because that's better than electing someone else. I'm not so sure that it is. It's sad and pathetic what Republicans have done with stalling progress of the country, but it's seeming very effective in accomplishing what they've wanted to, which is have a significant chance to win this election. Let's face it - after Bush, without them doing all this, the party would have been fucked.

I would listen to the guy that followed the policy long before the guy that set the policy.

One lived. One theorized.

Only one matters.

I would say two things to that...
1. What if what they blocked wasn't "progress" but would have hurt the country instead? Then wouldn't they be doing what they should be doing? Also the Republicans swept the elections in 2010 with a mandate to not allow Obama's policies through. So they were doing what the people elected them to do.

2. It's not just Republicans that are against Obama. As I understand it, Obama has not passed even ONE budget in 4 years. And when those budgets were brought up to Congress...he got ZERO votes for it. That's right, not even ONE Democrat voted in favor of any of Obama's budgets.

When you think about it, it's really pathetic.

^^

This.
.

Which is a great reason to NOT vote for Romney or Obama.

I voted today for Gary Johnson. He will abolish all "obscenity laws" And if you make your living on the internet you might want to look at his position on that as well:
http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/issue...and-technology


Neither Obama or Romney have any clear direction on porn or the internet. Johnson does. It's called FREEDOM.

I love these arguments for President.

When does anyone factor in that the President; based on the origins the Founders created, is supposed to be balanced by the Congress and the Supreme Court? When did everything become a rubber stamp for one man? Our Congress is shit and they deserve to be booted. Every single last one of them.

The entire government has lost it's way. Simple as that. The people deserve better and yet we continue to elect the idiots and assume they will do what's best for us.

Now, outside of that..... Obama and Romney are the choices. No one else is statistically electable. It's just not possible based on the system we have today. A vote for any other candidate is wasted, plain and simple. I'm voting for Romney because I plainly disagree with just about everything Obama represents.

I envision myself as a right leaning moderate (seems to match Libertarian ideas).

Obama, when looked at with a reasonable eye, has been a poor president. Bush wasn't much better. It's been a long time since a President was a good one.

Because people are seduced into the campaigning and the "less spending" myth. Romney will do no better than Obama and for many a lot worse.

I want a binder full of women... :playboy

:smilie_we

ADG

Romney thanks you for your vote! :thumbsup

It's about less borrowing and wasteful spending.

Ok for all the people that think romney shall do a wonderful job at reducing the deficit, please watch Jon Stewart break it all down with Romney's own words. Yes, very liberal source, but its all video clips put together of Romney promising it all. Also as its the daily show you non US people probably are screwed so go watch it elsewhere, its the october 9th one.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...ney-s-wizardry

Romney=Bush Lite :winkwink:

awww no one wants to watch the vid and then tell me how romney will cut the deficit. If republicans cant be fiscally prudent (time and time again they have proved they can't), then what do they really have going for them? rape babies?

That made zero sense.

Pretty sure the PUSA does not have that kind of power. :2 cents:

Jon Stewart laughs at people like you.

He laughs a hell of a lot harder at people like you though ;)

also typical useless response

It really does but you've never struck me as one who is strong in deductive reasoning.

Sigh.

http://digitaljournal.com/img/6/5/9/.../666479333.jpg

Less borrowing. That's a great idea. US GDP is $15.09 Trillion, the debt is $16.25 Trillion and rising. So if the US decides to cut the debt by $1.62 Trillion a year it will take 10 years and mean 10% less money in the US. Are you willing to take a 10% cut or should the cuts, as you indicated, hurt everyone else?

Wasteful spending. I asked you to give me a list of cuts and your list was about job losses for everyone else. You even wanted poor people to starve because 2% of them abuse the system.

So here's a better way to pay off the debt and not increase unemployment and reduce spending in the US. Taxes to go back to the Clinton era, sales tax of 10% on all non essential items, such as basic foods. Plus tax on imported finished goods. The myth of less taxes increasing spending and the wealth of a country has been shot down good and proper.

Or is it really about everyone else taking the pain?

Reasons the World is in trouble. The US is just an example and other countries have followed a similar route.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...993_-_2008.png

60-year-low tax revenues contribute to deficit growth

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bL4p3EMS03...s1600/mfg1.jpg

The Truth About U.S. Manufacturing

These parts are very interesting.

I think the writer is saying less people doing more work, making more goods, profit, etc. With less workers.

And the workers thrown out of a job.

What new skill sets, flipping burgers. Inform me of the new skills sets required with industry needing less people.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oybmrwCjz-...00/topfive.jpg

And to top it all.

http://oaktreemortgages.typepad.com/...5da8970b-800wi

But let's cut food stamps and other peoples jobs.

Must be great to live in some countries where people share the blame and don't point fingers at everyone else.

Paul. I pay over 7 figures in taxes. Spending more than you make... it should not be this difficult to understand that this concept has a limit. And the limit has been reached.

Perfect timing,for a real world look at government waste. I just checked my company email and found this. A week ago, we purchased a new cnc surface grinder from a company in Chicago. The company that sold the grinder found the trucking company to deliver it. THe grinder should've been here Tuesday for a shipping fee of $375.00.
Here is the letter I just received.

Hey XXXX,



I haven’t found anyone for this load other than the guy that will do it for $500. I know that’s more than I quoted but the market for flatbeds has changed since that storm came in. FEMA is writing checks for whatever people want and so the price for everything has gone up. I apologize but I promise that the $500 is exactly what I’d be paying the driver and that’s as low as I could find it. If you guys want me to keep trying, I will. I just can’t guarantee that I can get the price back down that low. Again, I am really sorry for this. If you do want this $500 load, I’ll send the truck over ASAP. Thanks for your time and let me know what I should do.



XXXXXX X XXXXXXX

Freight Consultant

XXXX XXXXXX XXXXX XXX XXX | Chattanooga, TN 37402

Yes America has been spending more than it makes. That includes you. Unless all of a sudden you're not American.

Clinton balanced the books, or close to it. Bush gave away billions in tax cuts and went on a wild spending spree. Then the poorly regulated banks, fucked everyone playing their game of roulette with other people's money. All the time China has been rising and continues to rise.

Even with that production is good, by sacking lots of people and not bothering what they do. How many more do you think will have to lose their jobs before they realise they've been screwed over? And come looking for the rich fat cats.

But screw them and if 2% fraud food stamps, lets stop food stamps. And regulations, what do big businesses like yours need regulations for? :upsidedow

And studies. Why bother with the Government trying to find out what's happening. They don't need to know that.

Why not privatise more Government funded projects. Roads, would be a great place to start. You drive and go through automatic tolls that deduct from your CC gauged to the car you drive and mileage. Then the Government doesn't bother with that and uses the money saved to reduce the debt. Of course like the private Health Care industry, the new tolls will squeeze you a lot more.

Here's a list of things that could be privatised.

Policing.
Medics.
Fireman.
Street Lighting.
Street Cleaning.
Schools (the poor don't need an education to be unemployed)
Child Welfare.

Please add to the list.

I shudder to think how much you earn if you pay over $1,000,000. What % of your income is that? how much better off are you under the new tax rates than you would be under the same as the Clinton era?

This man who probably earns 8 figures a year. Is now bitching because FEMA is picking up all the drivers it can to help rescue the victims of Sandy. Which will mean he has to pay $125 extra because of a National Emergency.

And why should truck drivers earn so much?

How greedy can a man get even though he's clearly very very rich?

What a great American you are. :upsidedow

#1 GOP rule: Never admit fault. Fuck Mitt.

Obama 2012.:thumbsup

FEMA IS WRITING CHECKS for whatever people want. FEMA IS SPENDING OUR TAX DOLLARS. Why shouldn't they be required to deal with vendors on a competivie basis.

And I am a great American. I served my country in the US Army, I employee people and pay their insurances and contribute to their retirement.

You on the other hand are a poor human being. You sit at a computer all day and talk shit about things you clearly don't understand. If you did, you would be the one paying 7 figures in taxes rather than merely existing in some eastern european hovel.

I have had enough of you and your insults. It is not worth my time. In 12 years I have never used the ignore feature until now.

Minte you are wasting your time. Paul is simply trolling. There is no way on Earth that anybody could believe the stuff he is saying. He is fucking with you hard.

I'm surprised you went as far with him as you did.

That was the last time. I wouldn't give him 30 seconds of my time in real life. And I won't give him another second online.

Obamas #1 rule: Never admit fault. Can you say Benghazi?

Nothing is ever his fault, the difference is people get killed when he lies and then lies again to coverup what really happened.

You are right. It certainly doesn't make any sense. I think it probably is due to the fact that he is from our generation that makes me continue. But it only proved one thing. You can get old without getting wise.

He is closer to my dad's generation. ;) And yeah, I gave up on him back when he was Charly.

Still waiting for someone to explain this for me. Sorry clueless liberal here

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...ney-s-wizardry

I'll take a shot at it:
That is John Stewart. He is a comedian. He is doing a bit there where he pretends not to understand how federal revenues will rise when millions of more people are employed (when and if that happens). It's funny. He is very liberal by the way. He could have done a bit on the crap Obama has said and done as the actual President and the shit he claimed during his 2008 campaign.

But he chose not to. :)

But Romney claims he will lower taxes by 20% but not cut anything major at all. You actually believe that will reduce the deficit? Sure Jon Stewart is liberal but he isn't the one talking in the clips, that is Romney himself. Jon Stewart is simply walking the audience down a list of possible things to cut. Maybe he missed something huge? Or is just Romney saying anything he can to get a vote?

I mean if 20% tax reduction would reduce the deficit, why not just make taxes 0%? We'd be in the black in no time!

His plan is to get 12 million people back to work,basically in the energy sector. If he can make that happen those people that are now receiving from the government will be contributing again. It's the abbreviated version of trickle down economics.

I searched around and saw this figure a few times, 9.2 million people are employeed by the natural gas and oil sector. Even with the keystone pipeline greenlighted 12mil jobs seems a rather lofty goal to achieve. Certainly wouldn't occur overnight either. So if Romney prodeeded as he claims this would contribute massively to the deficit until this all actually happened

Minte just explained (as did I in my first reply to you)

If you broaden the tax base and decrease the number of dependents on the govt., it will increase revenue.

Think of it like this...If you had a paysite with 200 members paying $30 a month you would make $6,000 a month. But if you had 400 members paying $25 a month you would make $10,000 a month.

You cut the amount they paid, but you increased the number of people paying in AND the total revenue.

You may question whether or not Romney's policies will increase employment enough to make that happen, but the fundamentals of the idea are sound.
His approach is to make the U.S. more "business friendly" so that companies will want to set up shop here instead of overseas. Which would bring employment and a broader tax base.

I'm not really sure what Obama's plan is. The best I can tell is that we are going to hire millions of teachers with federal money for local schools. And then our kids are going to learn to do the "jobs of tomorrow". And apparently there is going to be a lot of jobs making solar panels.
But I'm not exactly sure.

I think that Romney's approach to the economy would definitely work.

His stance on social issues however leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. Obama isn't much better in that regard. He's made a couple of winks and nods to gay folks...but still continues the "war on drugs", the Patriot Act, and military opportunism overseas.

If you get a chance...check out Gary Johnson (that's who I early-voted for) http://garyjohnson2012.com/
He is more socially liberal than the entire Democrat party put together. And more fiscally conservative than any Republican ever was.

I am not saying that I believe it will be easy. But it's a plan. Probably the best thing Romney could do if he is elected,is open the federal lands to drilling and then stay out of the way and let private enterprise grow their businesses.

What we have going now is the fast track to bankruptcy.

Presidential election aside, what do you two think about the impending "fiscal cliff"? It seems either way the democrats seem to have a bit more leverage this time around, though who knows if they will have any balls to use it. It's just that if congress doesn't nothing as usual rates automatically rise along with some other things like the payroll tax expires

I believe it's all posturing. THe ramifications won't serve either party. And certainly not the middle class. These guys are a bunch of drama queens. Every few years they play brinksmanship just for sport.

Whoever ends up winning the presidential election will score major points for *saving* the country. And with a bit of luck these aholes in congress will actually start working together for the benefit of the people they are supposed to be serving.

Overly optimistic. probably.

From the horse's mouth :

But what I don't get ... is .. that .é.. hummm ... I thought republicans always say that Government DOES NOT create jobs ...

.. confusing ...