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That is why responsible gun owners who think for themselves will not have a problem whatsoever with regulations or yes, even bans on manufacture and sale of large capacity ammo clips. Just get used to it, it's not the end of the world, or even of the 2nd amendment.

I'd rather that crazy nut had to take that few seconds to slap a new clip on, so would anyone.

Ok, so it's more important to restrict mentally "ill" people from owning a firearm, but it's not just as important if not more important to restrict mentally "ill" people from having children?

Please explain.

The Batman movie killer was a neuroscience doctoral student at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, I'm pretty sure the crazy fucker would have aced whatever general mental health test he was faced with.

So, mentally ill people shouldn't have the right to protect themselves or their families. I get it now. That's a pretty fucked up thing to say.

Arguing against a test for a license only drives people to think that a hardware ban is the answer. I'm just saying that it's probably more realistic to get on board with one or the other.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. We have more laws and restrictions about cars than we do firearms. They can take away your driver's license and refuse to register your car - and even impound it - but firearms are fine. No problem.

But we do in fact have restrictions on mentally ill people - it's called child protective services. If you mentally ill or unable to care for you children, they will take your children away from you.

And when that happens, the very next day you can go out and buy a firearm.

So now your saying we need to arm the mentally ill.

Perhaps. But I'm guessing most would not.

i don't get why so many people seem to think since no method is foolproof, that the best course of action is to do nothing at all.

seatbelts don't prevent all auto deaths, so lets get rid of them.
food inspections don't catch everything, so they're out too
it can go on and on

So out of the last two sensational cases one would have passed and the other used the legally obtained guns of a family member. See where I'm going with this …… ?

And just who administers these mental tests? Tests that will become part of a permanent record stating someone is mentally incompetent. Who gets sued the first time I get rejected? Trained mental health doctors won't touch this issue and neither will their insurance companies. Will the tester get sued by survivors if someone later shoots up another school? So who gives the test, a government employee? Etc, etc, etc ……… Ideas like this sound good provided we all live in Disneyland.

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Any attempt to confiscate weapons in the US will trigger an armed rebellion and overthrow of the federal government.

Laws forbidding the mentally ill from owning firearms are already on the books.

http://m.ncsl.org/issues-research/ju...tally-ill.aspx

I don't know why we're discussing this as if it's some new concept.

It is interesting logic isn't it? "Well they're just gonna use a knife..." Ya right.

I don't think these gun proponents understand that crimes involving guns are completely different than those committed using knives. Different type of person, different type of situation, etc. Guns are an appealing tool for murder because of the flexibility and distance it puts between the assailant and the victim. Knives are extremely intimate. But gun proponents see them as being the same thing for whatever reason.

Your driver's license and vehicle are not in the 2nd amendment.

This country only became a country of it's own because of people with guns. Guns, violence and violent people with guns who wanted a little fucking thing called freedom and independence are what built this country. Trying to compare that to an automobile is just ignorant.

But, since you want to bring up automobiles... Why aren't you lobbying against the banning or stricter regulation against them? They cause FAR more deaths and injuries per year than firearms do... but hey, let's not focus on facts. Let's just focus on whatever the mainstream media feeds us...

Do people sue people now when they named mentally incompetent?

And the last two sensational cases would not have passed at all. The guy who shot the fireman should have never been allowed out of prison, and the kid in CT checked every box for being a mass murderer and even had a shrink assigned to him by his high school.

That's what I'm saying - Why didn't we catch these people? How did the mother not know his kid had the potential to do this, he checked every last fucking box. He was a loner in high school, multiple health issues, had a shrink in high school, failure at life, who locked himself up in a basement of a million dollar house to play violent video games surrounded by posters of military hardware? HELLO?

95% of the population should not have a drivers license. With that being said, you think they should be packing?

You and I both know 99% of society is mother-fucking retarded.

But it's not like we can't put restrictions on the 2nd amendment - We do. Constantly.

My automobile is designed to get me from one place to another. My assault rifle is meant to kill people in bulk. Yet you insist I register my car, but you don't care about my assault rifle.

Now we are talking.

We do need better testing to get a DL. The test should include a mental health test, and a driving test - where they take you out on the freeway to test you. And if you get more than two tickets in one year, bam, you loose your DL for a year. (By these rules I would have lost my DL multiple times.)

I'm blind as a bat, but have you ever noticed the way they position the vision tests at DMV? I am supposed to look at the chart in front of me, but there always seems to be another chart meant to be used at another position that is closer and easier to read. And the fucks at DMV honestly don't give a shit.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Make it like Germany where we have to pay $900 to have a DL so the fucking idiots can't have one.

I love it when gas spikes up. The people who can't afford it are always the worst drivers. Less traffic on the roads and less idiots, win win.

Bush enacted it, Obama renewed it TWICE

I agree, what do we need with rights? <more Sarcasm>

what does mentally retarded have to do with being a psycho?

I'd be for requiring some form of training and safety courses before you are able to get a license to own a firearm... but in reality, all that would prevent is accidental shootings.

Someone with the intent to murder someone, will do so... Whether it be with a knife, a bat, a lead pipe, a pistol or an assault rifle. When someone has decided on murder, nothing is going to stop them.

Banning guns certainly won't because to do so only takes them out of the hands of legal owners. It does nothing to take them out of the hands of criminals. Yet, no one wants to talk about that fact.

And like I said in the other thread... you don't seem to care about people who get killed, or how many, so long as they aren't killed by a gun.

And yet, automobiles still kill far more people than guns do. Your counter argument simply strengthens mine because a tool that is not made for killing kills and injures far more people than a tool that is specifically designed for killing.

Imagine that.

It's quite difficult to get a license in quite a few states. I know in Maryland you're required to go through courses, have x amount of hours of road driving and a few other things that I can recall before you can get a license. I don't have the stats but I think most states have similar requirements. I know Michigan doesn't however as it only took me a day to get mine there after having to have my learners for 30 days I think, can't remember, but all that was required there were written and road tests...

But regardless of all that... Stupid people do stupid things. So making it even harder than it already is in what is likely most states to get a license doesn't solve the problem.

Do you think that drunk guy is going to remember all that he had to do to get his license before he gets behind the wheel? What about that guy who just worked a 16 hour shift? What about the person whose tire blew out an lost control? The person who suddenly started spinning on ice? The person intent on running someone over?

Rochard:

You just don't see the big picture of this lame "mental" argument. When a person is judged to be incompetent, a guardian is appointed to handle the person's property and personal affairs because you have just been declared MENTALLY INCOMPETENT. You will probably also have your employer notified because after all you are mentally incompetent right?

Civil Law also requires a person to be legally competent in order to enter a contract, sign a will, or make some other type of binding legal commitment. Now you can't even legally get a car loan!

So yea, if a person leading a normal life is suddenly declared mentally incompetent as a result of simply trying to purchase a firearm a legal nightmare will start.


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Yes I did. It was the govt. taking advantage of 9 guys with box cutters crashing some planes.
They fixed that problem instantly by putting solid steel locked doors on the pilots cabin.

And then Bush came up with the wrongly titled "Patriot Act" (which is totally UN-patriotic and UN-American in every way) anyway...even though it was not needed.

Now the Federal Govt. will take advantage of another situation to take away more of our rights. But since it isn't one you particularly care about...it's all "ok"

Like I said...apparently you don't "need" those rights anyway. You deserve whatever happens to this country with your attitude.

Freedom is taken. Not given.

Not at all.

The reason most of the people use an assault rifle is because they can quickly kill dozens without "getting wet" - meaning they can kill people in bulk with no fear of being stopped or getting hurt themselves. Their goal is to kill many - If you walk into the mall and stab someone, the end result is they will hurt one or maybe two people. With an assault rifle they will quickly shoot and most likely kill in bulk, and it will be very difficult to stop them - an assault rifle or even a firearm has a much greater range than a knife.

I'm not saying ban guns. Fuck. I have firearms myself. I'm just saying we need some restrictions here. Anyone can buy an assault rifle. It's more difficult to buy a automobile than it is to buy an assault rifle.

"We" as in YOU, or who are you including in the "We" that you speak of? I don't need restrictions. I know a lot of people that don't need them. So, the "we" isn't all of us. I'm curious who you are speaking for.

That is all

And yet, if those tools weren't available they would simply use another tool. If I were intent on doing damage, I could do so with a battery powered nail gun.

And again, using automobiles as a counterargument only serves to demolish your entire side of the debate. Automobiles are far harder to obtain than an assault rifle, yet far more people are killed and injured from automobiles than assault rifles, or any class of gun for that matter. Yet, you continue to ignore this fact.

... promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

And thus is the problem - we have mentally ill people who aren't being judged incompetent.

My friend John is obviously mentally handicapped. He operates on the level of a fifteen year old or sixteen year old. He's disabled from both the US Army and US Post Office, and "barely" exists as a private citizen. He's fifty years old, owns a house (with his mother's help because the banks won't allow him to have a debit card no less a home loan), yet his power and his phone gets turned off every month because he remember to pay the bills. He's been rear ended four times in two years but they are "not his fault" even though he drives a big truck, drives way too fast, stops short, and locks up his breaks more in fifteen minutes than I do in ten years.

He's armed with a AR15. He also worked at the post office, and hasn't gotten laid in twenty years. He's primed to go off.

No. Firearms empower. With a firearm you know you will hurt people, and more than one. With a knife or a baseball bat you "might injure" one person.

The differences between the two are staggering. There are more cars on the roads then guns, and more drivers than gun owners. Cars are used daily, firearms are used once every other month. Automobile deaths are accidents, and when they happen they happen to multiple people - the driver, everyone in his (her) car, and whatever they hit.

So I guess under your law of "thinking"... that muslim kid is primed to become a suicide bomber... that german guy is primed to be a nazi... right?

Here's what happens in countries that have strict gun control:

I'm pretty sure as a 6'3" well built man, I could knock several heads off with a bat, I could walk through a crowd and stab several people with a knife, I could poison a ton of people with pure nicotine, I could do a lot of different things. If I am intent on killing people, I'm going to kill as many as I can, regardless of what tool I use.

Besides, none of those mass murder guys needed to use an assault rifle to inflict the damage they did. A simple hand gun could have cause just as much.

So no matter how you look at it, your arguments ignore the facts and as such, are completely invalid.

And yet, they are not designed for killing but manage to kill far more people than guns do. Your blatant disregard of the facts do not make them any less factual. And not every auto related incident is an accident, just as every firearm related incident isn't intended.

I give up … shoot me.

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Alcohol and Tobacco deaths dwarf assault rifle deaths.

Yet, the only discriminating factor for obtaining these is your age.

Hahaha... He can't shoot you. He's giving up his guns.

Maybe throw a rock at you? Chuck a stick in your direction?

Gun bans brought to you by a government that can't balance a budget!

I can't believe people trust the government, lawyers telling doctors how to do things, makes no sense, now this.

The mentally ill must be allowed to own firearms. The Constitution demands it!!

[/sarcasm]

Why, he had over 20 minutes before the police got there. He just kept shooting the same kids, he could of went to another room.

Your few seconds are meaningless in this situation.
I honestly am for some new regulations, but every thinks this is going to stop something it will not.

I believe large cap magazines jam more than smaller ones giving time to jump the gunman. HA Anyway....

yeah sorry, but carrying a gun should not be a right but a privilege.
and in your context of being able to protect your freedom you'd need a lot more weapons than AR's.
The US govmt has drones and accurate GPS systems, you and millions of revolutionists wouldnt stand a chance.
To put things on an even keel, your right to bear arm should be extended to bear armed rockets and similar (at best), and that aint gonna happen.
AR's have no use in civilian hands, and does much more damage than it does the public any good.

There's nothing wrong with only letting certain people vote... or only letting certain religions exist... there's nothing wrong with only letting certain blacks be free... right?

Ha yep.

Tobacco - 18
Ar-15 - 18
Hand Gun -21
Alcohol - 21
Vote - 18
Join the Military -17
Porn - 18 ish

You don't think some of the Military will stand with the American people? It is hard enough for them to shoot an enemy, then a fellow American?
Everyone in the Military Wants to be there..... Right? Couldn't be for the money, college, nothing else to do. You know how many people refused to go to the first Iraq war?

You're correct on the first part...minors (and in many States, felons) are restricted from voting.

Its worth pointing out that most psychopaths also have extremely high IQ's as a general, common characteristic.

Ban Smart People! LOL

I'm talking about certain people... what if we decide that people on welfare or people that didn't pay enough taxes didn't get to vote... why not also restrict to to only those with a college degree of 4 or more years... sounds good right?